2004-12-01:

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17:34:13 <Keymaker> hello
17:34:20 <Keymaker> anything interesting going on? :)
17:36:27 <mtve> the befunge inventor joined this channel recently.
17:36:40 <lindi-> huh
17:36:43 <Keymaker> i see
17:36:49 <Keymaker> that's nice,
17:37:27 <Keymaker> have i been dreaming,
17:37:35 <Keymaker> or was there someday said
17:37:45 <Keymaker> something about program that would convert
17:38:03 <Keymaker> c-code to brainfuck?
17:38:51 <lindi-> "anything to anything" converter would be nice.
17:38:56 <Keymaker> sure
17:39:27 <Keymaker> but was someone working or did that kind of program?
17:41:47 <mtve> calamari is working on it
17:47:37 <Keymaker> ah yes
17:47:47 <Keymaker> that sounds familiar name
17:48:05 <Keymaker> do you know how far it is?
17:48:22 <mtve> no, sorry.
17:48:25 <Keymaker> ok
17:48:40 <Keymaker> it'll be interesting
17:48:47 <mtve> sure.
19:28:34 <Keymaker> bye
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22:30:22 <number17> :S
22:30:32 <number17> where's the inspiration gone ?
22:30:52 <number17> where's creativity gone ?
22:31:01 <fizzie> "It went that way."
22:31:06 <number17> where's spiritus movens fizzie ?
22:31:25 <number17> aha, and irony is only tool you have left.
22:31:27 <number17> :D
22:31:47 <fizzie> This unit is almost asleep, I wouldn't expect any brilliant comments.
22:31:57 <number17> i'm not an unit.
22:32:29 <number17> i don't sleep. i just logged into this internet relay chat. :D
22:32:48 <number17> i don't care about the sleepy preferences of this unit.
22:32:53 <number17> do you ?
22:34:15 <fizzie> Not much, but non-sleeping manifests itself as aching eyes and other symptoms.
22:35:01 <number17> in that case your organic system must revive its functioning.
22:35:14 <number17> refresh with sleep.
22:35:30 <number17> let those cells consolidate. :D
22:36:30 <fizzie> Gah. I hope there's not important-stuff-to-do left for today.
22:37:02 <number17> hope is a lyric term. :D
22:37:43 <number17> nothing to do with practical algorhytms, ergonomy, intuition even.
22:37:55 <number17> hope is just an excuse. ;)
22:39:08 <number17> but in your case, it represents tasks to be done and tasks to be avoided and be sorry for system/career disobeyence on predatory alghorytm. :)
22:39:41 <number17> perhaps you can try to avoid patterns fizzie. :)
22:43:17 <number17> talking to genobyte's ATR HIP CAM-Brain is more entertaining than talking to you fizzie.
22:43:29 <number17> probably because you are tired.
22:43:48 <number17> but i miss dynamic.
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23:57:34 <lament> i bought a didgeridoo!

2004-12-02:

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02:34:12 <heatsink> but people don't talk often here :/
02:38:00 <jack_handy> hello, i'm talking!
02:38:20 <heatsink> jack: shush. Don't interrupt!
02:38:30 <heatsink> ;)
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03:47:51 <lament> SHUT UP
03:47:52 <lament> !!!!!!!!
03:50:31 <jack_handy> who shut up?
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20:42:41 <Keymaker> yo
20:49:15 <Keymaker> anyone in here?
20:51:25 <fizzie> Not really, no.
20:53:13 <Keymaker> i see
21:08:48 <Keymaker> noo, has to go :\
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07:02:48 <heatsink> deltab <--> tabled
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20:10:42 <mtve> http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/madore/weblog/2004-12.html#d.2004-12-03.0813
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22:27:01 <ZeroOne> hey, I implemented nested loops to my online PHP-Brainfuck Interpreter: http://koti.mbnet.fi/villes/php/bf.php
22:27:17 <ZeroOne> a brainfuck interpreted made with php, that is
22:33:10 <lindi-> hmm
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22:52:11 <ZeroOne> lindi-: it can now even parse ferrix' news-signature ;)
22:52:22 <lindi-> heh
22:53:16 <ZeroOne> anyway, I'm going to bed. the last maths exercise lesson tomorrow, remember?
22:58:41 <lindi-> yep, going to be there around 1000
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2004-12-09:

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02:18:18 <beesod> hi
02:19:22 <beesod> im doing a research paper on softwARE patents.. one thing i am toucing on is esoteric programming languages there are.. does anyone have a basic idea ofjust about how many "esoteric" languages are in existance?
02:20:57 <beesod> 100? ok fair enough.. ill use that
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19:04:08 <ZeroOne> I wonder what do esoteric programming languages have to do with software patents...
19:10:16 <lindi-> ZeroOne: well, would be interesting if you could patent a whole paradigm
19:10:47 <ZeroOne> lindi- :D
19:13:45 <ZeroOne> but beesod's guess, 100, was probably quite ok. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_esoteric_programming_languages lists ~160 languages
19:13:56 <ZeroOne> some of those exist only as jokes
19:14:15 <ZeroOne> and from some it is really hard to find a reference elsewhere
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2004-12-10:

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17:59:17 <Keymaker> hey
17:59:34 <Keymaker> ZeroOne: nice to hear you got the interpreter done ;) good job
18:03:07 <Keymaker> anyways; anyone ever wondered what is the digital root of pi's 1000 first decimals?
18:03:10 <Keymaker> well, it is 3
18:03:23 <Keymaker> i made a program in brainfuck
18:03:39 <Keymaker> that calculates the digital root of given number :)
18:03:42 <Keymaker> http://info1.info.tampere.fi/~lhetuhe/brainfunk/b/digitalr.b
18:04:13 <Keymaker> it is not the final version yet, but works quite fast and bug-free
18:04:27 <Keymaker> try it out if you have time!
18:05:19 <Keymaker> and here is are the 1000 14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436789259036001133053054882046652138414695194151160943305727036575959195309
18:05:27 <Keymaker> 1000 decimals..
18:05:41 <Keymaker> oops, looks like they aren't
18:05:58 <fizzie> 512 is the maximum command length in IRC.
18:06:04 <Keymaker> ok
18:06:30 <Keymaker> that is the reason, well, make your own test numbers :)
18:06:54 <fizzie> So the maximum _comment_ length in here would be 510-strlen("PRIVMSG #esoteric :") approximately.
18:07:48 <Keymaker> mmh ok :)
18:09:39 <fizzie> I would like to know if pi itself is k-normal for any k. (Digits of pi in base k uniformly distributed, informally said.)
18:10:13 <Keymaker> sorry, i can't understand :\ what means k-normal?
18:10:37 <fizzie> "An irrational number for which any finite pattern of numbers occurs with the expected limiting frequency in the expansion in a given base (or all bases)."
18:11:02 <fizzie> 'normal number' in mathworld. Seems to be rather hard to prove normality.
18:11:08 <Keymaker> ah yes
18:15:50 <Keymaker> eeek be a while away..
18:16:18 <fizzie> I be falling asleep on my keyboard here. Irrationally tired. Feh.
19:05:29 <Keymaker> ok
20:11:39 <Keymaker> if anybody tries the program out, please comment it :) bye.
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20:32:50 <lament> http://cf.geocities.com/ilanpi/pi-exists.html
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16:26:28 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: thanks. sorry that it cannot run your digital root program due to server limitations ;p
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21:16:45 <Keymaker> ZeroOne: :)
21:17:10 <Keymaker> anyways, why doesn't anyone change that topic?! i hate the current topic--please change it!!!
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22:08:26 -!- mtve has set topic: please change the topic.
22:25:44 -!- ZeroOne has set topic: OK, here is a new topic: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm.
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23:08:37 <Keymaker> ah, a new topic
23:12:49 <calamari> hi Keymaker
23:17:59 <Keymaker> hi
23:18:28 <Keymaker> here seems to be busy tonigh :)

2004-12-12:

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00:24:27 <Keymaker> 'nite
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2004-12-13:

01:26:50 <lament> esoteric esotericism
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06:52:46 <heatsink> why can't you shoot self in foot with python or haskell?
06:54:19 <lament> impossible
06:54:31 <lament> those languages are entirely safe
06:55:17 <heatsink> os.system("rm -rf ~")
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18:01:35 <Selena> hi
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23:23:47 <lament> hi
23:37:51 <puzzlet> hi

2004-12-16:

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14:32:05 <Keymaker> is here anything going on?
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15:26:54 <fizzie> I'm vacuuming my apartment and wondering where all this dust is coming from, but that probably doesn't even count as "going on".
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19:01:00 <Keymaker> hi all! i'm first time here with linux
19:02:39 <Keymaker> (i hadn't linux before)
19:02:39 <mtve> client is sirc i hope?
19:02:39 <Keymaker> no
19:02:39 <Keymaker> it's something x-chat
19:02:39 <Keymaker> but i don't know anything about this
19:02:39 <Keymaker> i don't even know how to install something :\
19:02:39 <Keymaker> i have 0 knowledge of commands and so on
19:06:17 <Keymaker> all these programs have so much options or preferences.. nothing's simple these days
19:06:58 <mtve> yeah
19:07:36 <Keymaker> :)
19:12:13 <Keymaker> hmm, time to get something background to the desktop..
19:12:18 <Keymaker> or whatever it's called in this
19:55:57 <Keymaker> bye.
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2004-12-18:

01:13:05 <ZeroOne> bwah... I just installed ActivePerl just to get the Argh! interpreter to work. :)
01:15:02 <ZeroOne> (http://www.sha-bang.de/content/13_eso/Argh-Spec.txt)
01:42:28 <heatsink> Perl?
01:42:48 <heatsink> I hope by the time it gets to Aaaaargh!, it's in python.
01:58:35 <cpressey> i would've though perl would be perfectly apropos for a language called "Argh!"
02:00:02 <heatsink> But the name comes from a Monty Python movie
02:31:47 <cpressey> ah.  i'm not familiar with that one.
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20:27:46 * heatsink is away: I'm busy
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21:33:56 <ZeroOne> I thought most channels kick you for doing a public away
21:50:52 <heatsink> I could see why.
21:51:32 <fizzie> This one doesn't, we're just happy something happens. :p
21:51:57 * heatsink donno how to turn it off.
21:52:04 <ZeroOne> "oh! oh! an away-message! wooohoooo!!"
21:52:15 <fizzie> A bit like that, yes.
21:52:37 <ZeroOne> ok.
21:52:41 <heatsink> omg yay the floodbot works!

2004-12-20:

01:21:50 <lament> Trivia quiz: where can you find the belt of venus, the mirror of venus and the mountain of venus?
01:28:40 <heatsink> um... on Venus?
01:29:03 <heatsink> Is this the planet or the god?
01:34:28 <lament> no, neither one of these is found on venus.
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07:35:19 <heatsink> Well, there are two highlands on Venus, one is named Aphrodite and the other is Ishtar, both of which are other names for Venus.
07:38:24 <lament> ...
07:38:32 <lament> that's good.
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2004-12-23:

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08:06:30 <VonTroba> hello
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08:07:04 <calamari_> hi
08:18:35 <nooga> which languages do you like?
08:19:00 <calamari_> bf is my favorite esoteric language
08:19:16 <mtve> befunge
08:19:22 <calamari_> non-eso, I like microsoft quickbasic and java
08:20:30 <mtve> perl :)
08:20:39 <calamari_> I've never gotten into befunge, even though I made my own 2-D eso language.. the instruction set doesn't seem to match the 2-D very well
08:21:03 <calamari_> (my eso lang included in that statement)
08:22:00 <calamari_> there was an interesting thread on the lang list a while back about trying to come up with a 2D instruction pointer.. dunno if it got anywhere tho
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08:23:24 <calamari-> I've always wanted to make a fractal programming language, in honor of startrek.. but haven't done it because I can't think of a way to do the code in a way that would fit
08:23:58 <mtve> befunge suits my taste exactly. it's just fine for me.   bf is too limited.  still, we're waiting your c2bf :)
08:25:17 <calamari-> hehe.. man.. too many unfinished projects
08:25:36 <calamari-> I should check that out tho since I have some time now over winter break
08:41:02 <nooga> hm
08:41:11 <nooga> i know only brainfuck
08:41:23 <nooga> but l33t, beatnik are funny
08:41:38 <nooga> alseo 4DL and Befunge look interesting
08:41:43 <nooga> also*
08:42:37 <nooga> i wrote bf2pas yesterday ;]
08:42:46 <nooga> _optimization
08:43:12 <calamari-> now all you need is pas2bf and you'll have me beat
08:43:47 <nooga> uh
08:43:57 <nooga> today i plan to make it portable
08:44:19 <nooga> ;]
08:44:23 <nooga> bf2everything
08:46:45 <calamari-> someday I'd also like a BF-based OS
08:48:35 <nooga> i thought abt. making bf shell for mine ;]
08:49:47 <nooga> or maybe leet based comands hehe ;] >> "s#0w m3 7h1$ fu<k1ng d1r <0nT3N7!"
08:49:49 <calamari-> since there are bfi programs it should be possible to make it "multitask" 
08:50:21 <calamari-> but maybe multitasking isn't really in the spirit of bf 
08:50:36 <nooga> hey... or maybe 4DL ? :)
08:50:48 <calamari-> I don't know that one.. is it new?
08:51:19 <nooga> http://www.cliff.biffle.org/esoterica/4dl.html
08:51:48 <nooga> but it's sick '
08:51:50 <nooga> ;]
08:53:39 <calamari-> hehe, Cliff never disappoints
08:56:18 <nooga> heh when i saw Beatnik for the first time i was shocked '
08:56:19 <nooga> ;]
08:58:51 <calamari-> hmm.. just had an idea.  bf could be made so that it doesn't use memory.. instead it could read bytes off the disk.  this still fits with the whole tape idea and now programs can be loaded from disk
08:59:09 <nooga> hehe
08:59:38 <nooga> my interpreter does not load source to the mem... it reads straight from file
08:59:49 <nooga> and jumps usikg fseek()
09:00:06 <calamari-> there would be no concept of a file unless it was coded into bf
09:00:16 <calamari-> into -> in
09:00:56 <calamari-> it would be more like a huge memory array that just happened to not be empty when the program started
09:01:15 <nooga> hm
09:01:31 <nooga> funny... http://regedit.risp.pl/nosense
09:01:40 <calamari-> the first version would need to be floppy based for increased pain
09:02:35 <nooga> almost every eso language is evul ;D
09:05:48 <nooga> hehe nosense seems to be good for experiments
09:08:49 <nooga> what do you think calamari-?
09:09:46 <calamari-> it seems cool, but I find it easier to test my asm code in a dos window most of the time
09:10:00 <nooga> yeah
09:10:09 <nooga> but as a computer
09:10:33 <calamari-> yeah, that part is cool
09:10:42 <nooga> you have disks there, they are raw so you can even try to define own filesystem
09:11:45 <nooga> and it has some retro style graphics modes
09:12:03 <calamari-> I think the asm code part of this bf os would be pretty simple actually.. I'd need just enough to r/w floppy sectors (bios), screen i/o (bios), and the interpreter, already written many times
09:12:20 <calamari-> the hard part would be the bf program 
09:12:26 <nooga> but
09:12:31 <nooga> booting
09:12:37 <calamari-> booting is no problem
09:12:41 <nooga> grub?
09:13:13 <calamari-> nah.. floppy doesn't need anything that complicated.  In fact, the whole os could probably fit in the space of the bootloader
09:14:12 <nooga> gah
09:14:17 <nooga> dunno... im a n00b
09:14:35 <calamari-> no that's cool
09:15:03 <calamari-> I've messed around with bootloaders and simplistic fake OS's too many times :)
09:15:56 <nooga> and i still dont know how to make my kernel bootable ;]
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09:16:07 <nooga> even by grub
09:16:15 <nooga> i think it's the linker
09:17:00 <nooga> i have somethink wrong with the format of kernel
09:17:12 <nooga> i tried to use elf32 instead of coff
09:17:32 <nooga> but grub tells me that the kernel is wrong ;|
09:17:36 <calamari-> well the first sector on a floppy is the boot sector.. there are a few "magic" bytes you put at the end of the sector (512 bytes) and it's bootable 
09:17:55 <calamari-> it's been a while but I think it's AA55
09:18:14 <nooga> yes
09:18:27 <calamari-> yeah aa55 which turns into 55AA on the disk
09:18:43 <nooga> but look
09:20:24 <calamari-> I've never messed with linux like that
09:20:45 <calamari-> and also havenb't ever experimenented on HD's
09:20:53 <nooga> can you write os under windows?
09:21:00 <calamari-> sure
09:21:20 <nooga> how to link program to make a bootable kernel? 
09:21:59 <calamari-> for a floppy?
09:23:54 <calamari-> there were a few projects where I wanted the floppy to be readable under dos/win, so I added a small fat and root directory.. I just used a hex editor for those and wrote a small program to put the sectors together
09:24:05 <calamari-> I usually just write the sectors to a floppy with debug
09:24:27 <calamari-> although it's not hard to do it with asm either
09:24:33 <nooga> but simple exe can't boot?
09:24:50 <calamari-> I'm not writing an exe 
09:25:36 <calamari-> this is like a com file where you only have a little over 400 bytes of code space
09:26:13 <calamari-> you don't have access to ms-dos interrupts
09:27:01 <nooga> but
09:27:17 <calamari-> usually this code space is used to load a larger program from disk and run it (what's why it's called the boot sector, lifting yourself up by the bootstraps and all that)
09:27:20 <nooga> i write program that will prind "Hello world!" on a screen
09:27:33 <calamari-> ok
09:27:36 <nooga> and if i want to run it under win i need to link it for lin
09:27:51 <nooga> stfu
09:27:52 <calamari-> oic, are you writing it in c? 
09:27:54 <nooga> win* of crs
09:28:24 <nooga> yes, c
09:28:43 <calamari-> sorry.. I've been talking about coding directly in ASM
09:28:48 <nooga> and if i will link it for win i'll get .exe file
09:29:43 <calamari-> you can link ASM programs to libraries, but you don't have to either
09:29:53 <calamari-> yeah
09:30:18 <nooga> and if i want to boot the same hello-world program
09:30:27 <nooga> what i have to do?
09:30:48 <calamari-> I use nasm (used to use tasm), buth can assemble straight to a COM file without any external linking.  NASM can assemble to a BIN file which doesn't assume an offset of 0100h 
09:31:42 <calamari-> I dunno.. I guess you'd have to write some small code that handles the MZ format and code segment/data segment stuff
09:32:19 <calamari-> you'd also need to handle any MS-DOS interrupts that the libraries used
09:32:42 <calamari-> probably not going to happen in 400 bytes
09:33:14 <calamari-> so you'd need to write your own mini-os basically.. some old floppy games did that
09:33:39 <nooga> huh
09:33:47 <nooga> and if i will code in asm?
09:33:57 <calamari-> then everything is a lot easier
09:34:49 <calamari-> you're going to end up writing some asm code anyways because you're going to need that boot sector
09:37:53 <nooga> eerm
09:38:29 <calamari-> I have an old ESO example on my webpage here: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/eso/eso-0.01.zip
09:39:11 <calamari-> it has a bunch of asm files, but I think only aq few are actually assembled
09:39:47 <nooga> 0.o
09:39:50 <nooga> what
09:39:57 <nooga> that's you :)
09:40:48 <calamari-> ???
09:41:27 <nooga> you wrote that twisted thing ;]
09:41:40 <nooga> i saw that several weeks ago
09:42:03 <calamari-> yeah, long time ago.. looks like feb of 2003
09:42:15 <calamari-> but it seems like it should be older than that
09:42:50 <calamari-> all it does is show a fancy logo then say "system halted" it's nothing special really
09:43:34 <calamari-> we needed a group to brainstorm how the os would look, but the project died pretty quickly
09:45:31 <nooga> ha
09:45:42 <nooga> but i can use it as a base for mine ;]
09:46:26 <calamari-> have fun :)
09:47:29 <calamari-> email me if you make something boot up.. I'd love to see it! :)  jeff@kidsquid.com
09:47:46 <nooga> ok i will ;]
09:52:24 <calamari-> I need to go to bed.. cya all.. feel free to email me if you need help or whatever
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10:40:40 <nooga> hm
10:40:54 <nooga> im thinking about my own eso lang.
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12:40:17 <Keymaker> hi; i suck at C, could someone make me small code that would only read something file byte per byte, end when the file is read or stop in case of error.. i can't find good example anywhere :(
12:41:27 <Keymaker> it'd be best if the file could be selected when starting the program, for example ./prog file.txt
12:41:45 <Keymaker> (i have no idea how to make that kind of thing either)
12:41:54 <Keymaker> i'd be very happy :)
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14:50:46 <nooga> hi ;]
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2004-12-24:

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06:57:36 <lament> new topic!! fresh from #c chatter
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10:24:04 <ZeroOne> lament: hmm. you could use that keyboard to write Whirl programs. :)
10:26:15 <ZeroOne> or the Jot dialect of Lazy K
10:27:53 <ZeroOne> or why not just Jot itself.
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12:56:02 <nooga_> eh
12:56:05 <nooga_> anybody here?
12:56:21 <mtve> no
12:56:33 <nooga_> i see
12:56:41 <nooga_> that was idiotic question
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13:01:46 <mtve> no
13:04:45 <nooga_> umm
13:05:15 <mtve> just a rhetorical one.
13:05:34 <nooga_> uhm
13:05:44 <nooga_> i thought about befunge
13:15:04 <nooga_> i guess that interpreting function is recursive
13:16:55 <nooga_> like this one:
13:16:56 <nooga_> bool interpret(int x, int y) {
13:16:56 <nooga_>  ...
13:16:56 <nooga_>  interpret(x+1,y); 
13:16:56 <nooga_>  interpret(x-1,y); 
13:16:56 <nooga_>  interpret(x,y+1); 
13:16:57 <nooga_>  interpret(x,y-1); 
13:16:59 <nooga_> }
13:17:19 <mtve> what version of befunge?
13:17:29 <nooga_> dont know -.-
13:17:39 <nooga_> i saw only instruction table of befunge
13:17:50 <nooga_> and i know that a befunge program is 2d array
13:18:33 <fizzie> Ah, befunge, my most favourite esoteric language. :)
13:26:22 <nooga_> brb
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21:55:00 <lament> mmmm befunge
21:56:58 <fizzie> My girlfriend complains when I speak of scheme and lambdas in bed, maybe I should try talking about befunge.
22:04:19 <lament> Maybe you should speak of brainfuck.
22:06:00 <fizzie> I find incomprehensible rectangular blocks of befunge code very exciting, maybe she would also? 
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22:46:52 <Keymaker> gotta say that supercoder keyboard is stylish indeed :)
22:53:48 <Keymaker> hmmm, does anyone have any cool links to any interesting site about some esoteric programming languages or about crazy programs that have been made with them?
23:24:12 <Keymaker> i guess no, then :\
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23:34:47 <lament> heh
23:52:02 <nooga> hehe
23:54:56 <nooga> what heh? huh?

2004-12-25:

00:11:46 <cpressey> nooga: the interpreting loop of befunge is iterative, like:  while(!done) { execute_at(x,y); x+=dx; y+=dy; }
00:12:38 <nooga> i c ;)
00:12:42 <nooga> fast reply
00:14:15 <cpressey> i wasn't here earlier :)
00:17:52 <nooga> and dx and dy are depending on what interpreter have under ip? 
00:18:39 <cpressey> yeah.  >, for example, sets dx=1 and dy=0
00:18:45 <nooga> hah
00:18:48 <nooga> thx
00:23:07 <nooga> btw. excuse my english 
00:45:25 <cpressey> no problem
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08:51:07 <nooga> hello
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13:03:50 <nooga> coding in befunge is like a game ;]
13:07:41 <fizzie> True, that.
13:07:59 <fizzie> Especially the size-optimizing part.
13:08:55 <nooga> heh
13:09:55 <fizzie> You might want to see http://quux.befunge.org/befunge.html
13:10:29 <nooga> how cool
13:10:36 <nooga> javascript interpreter
13:11:50 <fizzie> There's also the "quicksort with pretty colours" thing.
13:57:54 <nooga> hah
13:58:03 <nooga> maybe im making something bad
13:58:19 <nooga> but this js interpreter doesn't work well
14:04:19 <fizzie> How does it not work? 
14:05:10 <nooga> ip is moving in a funny way
14:07:10 <nooga> ill write my own interreter
14:07:20 <nooga> it will be much more funny
14:07:21 <fizzie> Hmm, strange. You sure you did the "configuration" part (dragging the boxes like the instructions say) correctly when you loaded the page? It seems to work for me.
14:07:29 <fizzie> Writing interpreters is fun.
14:07:31 <nooga> yeah
14:07:48 <nooga> but when i do te configuration the ip frame is 3x3 pixels
14:08:18 <fizzie> Hmmm. Might be a browser incompatibility then. Works with firefox here.
14:08:40 <fizzie> Usually when I'm learning a new language the first thing I do is to write a befunge interpreter with it.
14:09:23 <fizzie> That's what I did with FORTRAN and Forth. And Haskell.
14:10:37 <nooga> befunge is much more interesting than bf
14:12:37 <nooga> v>6> v
14:12:37 <nooga>  ^
14:12:37 <nooga> >?>5>>.@
14:12:37 <nooga>  v
14:12:37 <nooga>  >4>  ^  
14:12:49 <nooga> my first program xD
14:14:37 <fizzie> Hmmm.. might be interesting to write a non-deterministic variant of befunge, with an added "fail" instruction that'd backtrack to the last ?.
14:19:41 <nooga> hmm
14:19:46 <nooga> interesting
14:21:51 <fizzie> Not that I'd know many who'd write anything "serious" with befunge.
14:24:11 <nooga> huh
14:24:24 <nooga> excuse me but i dont understand ;]
14:24:33 <nooga> my english is too limited ;)
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15:14:48 <Keymaker> "06:10:37 <nooga> befunge is much more interesting than bf"
15:14:53 <Keymaker> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :D
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21:11:31 <nooga> hi again
21:12:03 <nooga> i wrote a befunge interpreter in turbo pascal lol :)
21:12:43 <nooga> my grandma as got old pc, i was eating dinner in my grandma's house, so i checked it out :P
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2004-12-26:

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03:38:22 <lament> um.
03:38:42 <lament> befunge and brainfuck are both great.
03:39:06 <lament> they're the treasures of the esoteric world.
03:39:28 <lament> each is utterly disgusting and vile in its own inimitable way.
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12:31:48 <Keymaker> mornin'
12:32:46 <fizzie> Mornin'.
12:32:51 <Keymaker> hi
12:33:13 <Keymaker> hmmm..
12:34:34 <Keymaker> how the lyrics in 99 bottles of beer go? in the very end?
12:36:12 <fizzie> Pick one from www.99-bottles-of-beer.net and run it.
12:36:23 <Keymaker> that's the problem
12:36:27 <Keymaker> there are different versions
12:36:53 <fizzie> Well, yes. I'm not sure if any of them is "official".
12:36:56 <Keymaker> in some it ends with 0 bottles and in some that there is no more bottles or something..
12:37:42 <Keymaker> yeah. i just tought it'd be nice to know the 'official', i'd like to make on in brainfuck
12:37:52 <Keymaker> yes, it's been made thousands of times but still..
12:38:55 <fizzie> Some googling suggests that it ends either 'no more bottles of beer on the wall' or 'no bottles of beer on the wall'.
12:39:09 <Keymaker> cheers
12:39:19 <Keymaker> hmmm, i think i'll use 'no more'
12:39:52 <fizzie> It sounds better, I think.
12:39:56 <Keymaker> yes
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12:40:28 <Keymaker> welcome
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12:40:35 <Keymaker> d'oh
12:40:43 <nooga_> hi
12:40:47 <Keymaker> a hi
12:43:58 <Keymaker> there as interesting talk about bf-os in some log
12:44:20 <Keymaker> *as --> was
12:48:36 <nooga_> ehe
12:48:38 <nooga_> i remember
12:48:46 <nooga_> im waiting for calamari
12:49:38 <Keymaker> i see
12:49:45 <Keymaker> interesting idea
12:50:25 <nooga_> hmm
12:50:36 <nooga_> befunge os would be much more funny
12:51:02 <Keymaker> hmmm, maybe
12:51:14 <Keymaker> hmm, or then not :)
12:51:40 <nooga_> boot from diskette, screen dividet to 3 parts
12:51:45 <nooga_> divided*
12:51:58 <Keymaker> ok
12:52:04 <nooga_> code space, output window and stack listener :)
12:52:16 <Keymaker> :)
12:52:50 <fizzie> Mooz was thinking of perhaps doing a befunge processor with verilog or some other hardware description language as a course project or something. :p
12:53:07 <Keymaker> heh :)
12:53:14 <Keymaker> is he going to?
12:53:23 <nooga_> lololz
12:53:23 <fizzie> Not right now, no, but we'll see.
12:53:32 <Keymaker> ok
12:54:01 <nooga_> you can go to the electronics shop and buy some transsistors :)
12:54:05 <fizzie> (Oh, and the operating system for our "hey, I'll write an emulator for a (zilog-z80-based) hardware device that doesn't actually exist" thing was supposed to use befunge in the startup scripts.)
12:54:49 <fizzie> Must go locate food, then it's a long (~570km) train-trip back home from this current Christmas-location I'm in. ->
12:54:56 <Keymaker> eeek
12:55:05 <Keymaker> train's fun
12:55:16 <Keymaker> but that long trips, not :\
12:55:49 <Keymaker> hmmm, actually finding some food wouldn't be bad idea.
12:57:18 <Keymaker> well, i think i'll go now :) bye
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13:04:09 <nooga_> -.-
13:04:41 <nooga_> my befunge interpreter works different than other
13:17:43 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: I'd enjoy a traing trip of 570 km if I had a laptop. ;) have you got one, fizzie?
13:17:57 <ZeroOne> nooga_: how's that?
13:17:57 <fizzie> Sure, this iBook.
13:18:18 <ZeroOne> fizzie: nice. hmm. does it boot Knoppix?
13:18:35 <fizzie> Not sure, but it dualboots OS X and Debian/ppc from the hd.
13:19:01 <ZeroOne> ok
13:19:28 <fizzie> Has enough battery to last for ~5 hours of irc-over-gprs-over-bluetooth, which is about the time it takes for the train to go Joensuu -> Helsinki, so if I manage the Lieksa-Joensuu interval without irc, I can use it the rest of the trip.
13:23:18 <fizzie> Also, if I calculated correctly, my seats for the Joensuu-Helsinki part are quite close to the "tables" in the middle of the compartment, and those have electricity outlets under them, so I might be able to recharge, too.
13:38:36 <nooga_> hmm
13:38:40 <nooga_> youre finnish
13:41:48 <fizzie> Eek, time to go, train doesn't wait. ->
13:41:56 <fizzie> But "yes".
13:55:06 <ZeroOne> nooga_: how does your befunge interpreter work different than others?
13:55:13 <nooga_> ah
13:55:36 <nooga_> because i dont pop from the stack when | or _ are noticed
13:55:56 <nooga_> but i wrote it from my memory and i didnt have a befunge specification
13:56:00 <nooga_> ill fix it
13:56:38 <ZeroOne> ok
13:58:59 <ZeroOne> I thought it was something more fundamental
13:59:05 <ZeroOne> but then it was just a bug :)
13:59:51 <nooga_> yes
13:59:54 <nooga_> -.-
13:59:58 <nooga_> just a bug
14:00:12 <nooga_> do you have some ideas ?
14:00:37 <ZeroOne> erm, no. I haven't done that much befunge. I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in PHP, though.
14:01:00 <nooga_> hehe
14:01:27 <nooga_> bf is cool because you can write interpreter in 3 minutes :)
14:02:20 <ZeroOne> lindi-, who is not here right now, made a befunge interpreter that creates a linked list of the instructions and then abandons the grid. :)
14:03:24 <nooga_> oh
14:03:29 <ZeroOne> that's something I'd call fundamentally different.
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14:06:38 <nooga_> hm
14:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang
14:06:57 <nooga_> different than other
14:07:10 <nooga_> but im polluted with befunge and brainfuck
14:08:28 <ZeroOne> hmm
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14:11:29 <nooga_> it would be funny to build electronic brainfuck
14:11:47 <nooga_> hi lindi-
14:12:11 <lindi-> hi
14:12:12 <ZeroOne> nooga_: a fungeoid with a variable size instruction pointer would be fun
14:12:19 <ZeroOne> like, in befunge it is fixed to being 1x1
14:12:32 <ZeroOne> but 2x2 or 3x1 instructions could also be possible
14:12:41 <nooga_> lol
14:12:44 <nooga_> yup
14:12:52 <nooga_> that wold be paifull :)
14:13:07 <lindi-> you mean variable length instruction pointer or variable length instructions?
14:13:23 <ZeroOne> lindi-: hmm. maybe both. ;)
14:13:53 <ZeroOne> but I thought about variable length instructions.
14:14:49 <ZeroOne> it might need some instructions to work with wildcards
14:15:20 <nooga_> ha
14:15:27 <nooga_> i will make brainfuck processor
14:15:37 <ZeroOne> hasn't that already been done?
14:15:43 <nooga_> dunno
14:15:47 <nooga_> i will make my own
14:15:55 <nooga_> to code everywhere!
14:16:12 <ZeroOne> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcpu.html
14:16:25 <ZeroOne> and another: http://martin.egy.nu/index.php?page=bfcomp
14:17:18 <ZeroOne> yet another: http://robos.org/bfcomp/index.html
14:18:03 <nooga_> ah
14:18:14 <nooga_> then mine will be yet yet another :P
14:18:26 <ZeroOne> :)
14:20:05 <nooga_> nah
14:20:20 <nooga_> there are using ready programmable devices
14:20:36 <nooga_> i plan to make one from the simpliest transsistors -.-
14:25:18 <ZeroOne> that will take, like, quite a few transistor...
14:25:44 <nooga_> yeah
14:26:05 <nooga_> but its enough masochistic task to complete it
14:27:28 <ZeroOne> I'd say something like 300 transistors
14:28:34 <nooga_> hm
14:28:40 <nooga_> not too much
14:28:45 <lindi-> hmm, i might just try that CW6670 one
14:30:19 <lindi-> it's just that XILINX tools are all windows-only
14:30:37 <ZeroOne> you have to build your own XILINX tool first :)
14:31:10 <nooga_> hm?
14:32:25 <lindi-> ZeroOne: afaik it's not trivial at all. i'd need to know everything from voltage levels to internal timing issues of the chip
14:33:18 <ZeroOne> well, you can also choose to write a windows emulator with which you can run those existing tools ;)
14:38:18 <ZeroOne> if there aren't any GNU emulators that you could use
14:39:10 <ZeroOne> I guess WINE is open source
14:39:11 <ZeroOne> but
14:39:16 <ZeroOne> I'll be back later. ->
14:39:18 <lindi-> :P
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15:40:38 <Keymaker> hey
15:44:12 <Keymaker> "06:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang"
15:44:19 <Keymaker> i've had some ideas as well,
15:44:26 <Keymaker> but i can't write interpreter in c
15:44:41 <Keymaker> since i can't do stuff with the files :\
15:45:47 <Keymaker> and writing the interpreters in bf would be really hard
15:46:01 <Keymaker> (and "impossible" at some level)
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16:11:16 <Keymaker> hi
16:12:25 <Keymaker> anyways; what i forgot to say was that: i'd like to see more interesting language (and interpreters for them), but more than that i'd like to see all new programs, not interpreters for existing languages :)
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18:22:42 <nooga> hi once again
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20:06:08 <nooga_> hahh
20:34:26 <lament> hah?!
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20:47:06 <ZeroOne> hah.
20:53:06 <lament> what's with people not talking
20:53:13 <lament> they should stop not talking and start talking
20:53:20 <lament> and "hah" doesn't qualify
20:53:33 <mtve> HAH
20:55:02 <lament> heh
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21:12:52 <nooga> hehe
21:13:04 <nooga> im trying to invent own eso language
21:13:07 <nooga> but i cant
21:13:10 <nooga> im too stupid
21:13:41 <nooga> i thought about something like lisp but more minimal
21:17:25 <nooga> i dun know x_x
21:17:48 <ZeroOne> nooga: I think that has already been done several times. do Unlambda, Lazy K and Iota and Jot say anything to you?
21:18:31 <nooga> i dont know them
21:18:48 <mtve> the area of esoteric languages is quite good explored already.  it's hard it invent something interesting.
21:18:56 <nooga> i know
21:19:05 <ZeroOne> nooga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlambda
21:20:39 <nooga> mph
21:20:44 <nooga> too wisted
21:20:49 <nooga> twisted*
21:21:47 <ZeroOne> heh :)
21:22:29 <ZeroOne> well, you can make an easier functional language then
21:26:33 <nooga> aah
21:26:37 <nooga> im too lame -.-
21:47:58 <nooga> damn
21:53:53 <lament> nooga: there're several basic concepts that you have to learn
21:53:57 <lament> before trying to create something "new"
21:54:14 <nooga> turing ;)
21:54:20 <lament> basically, look at Brainfuck, Befunge, Lazy K
21:54:25 <lament> uhh what else
21:54:27 <lament> Weird
21:54:32 <lament> Wired or whatever i mean
21:54:39 <lament> Unlambda
21:54:53 <lament> lambda calculus in general
21:54:57 <lament> turing machines of course
21:55:27 <lament> then just try to come up with something that's like neither one of those :)
21:56:41 <nooga> heh
22:01:02 <nooga> 5{--} = +++++ in brainfuck; 2{5{--}.} = +++++.+++++. 
22:01:05 <nooga> hmm
22:01:08 <nooga> nah
22:01:09 <nooga> useless
22:05:38 <lament> anything with a brainfuck-like memory model is likely to be useless
22:05:43 <lament> i.e. not original enough
22:05:51 <nooga> yeah
22:10:55 <nooga> huh
22:11:17 <nooga> nah... stupid again
22:16:37 <ZeroOne> hmm, I found a new esoteric programming language: Nietzsche: http://www.autistici.org/bakunin/
22:18:18 <nooga> heh
22:21:19 <ZeroOne> reminds me of that another one, whatsitsname...
22:22:01 <ZeroOne> not BDAMD
22:22:12 <nooga> ha
22:22:14 <nooga> i know!
22:22:21 <ZeroOne> but Numberix! yes!
22:22:27 <ZeroOne> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/compilers/numberix/numberix.html
22:22:35 <nooga> befunge-like language but diagonal
22:23:15 <nooga> nah
22:23:18 <nooga> stupid
22:23:39 <lament> oh, Game of Life is another one of those basic concepts
22:23:52 <nooga> ?
22:24:25 <nooga> what do you mean?
22:25:55 <nooga> brb
22:32:02 <ZeroOne> nooga: Conway's Game of Life
22:32:41 <ZeroOne> isn't that a familiar concept to you? fizzie said earlier that a befunge interpreter is often the first thing he does with a new language. Game of Life is mine. :)
22:34:57 <nooga> hmmm
22:34:59 <nooga> yeah
22:35:09 <nooga> ive got an idea
22:35:15 <nooga> brainfuck based
22:35:20 <nooga> funny and useless
22:36:15 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-]
22:36:15 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog
22:37:05 <nooga> may i paste several lines?
22:38:54 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
22:38:54 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
22:39:01 <nooga> whole
22:44:20 <nooga> ha!
22:44:22 <nooga> goood
22:44:28 <nooga> veryyy good!
22:44:39 <nooga> simple enough to be my first eso lang
22:44:51 <nooga> and then i will think about something more complicated
22:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?
22:53:34 <nooga> hmmmmmmm :(
22:59:50 <nooga> i see
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23:01:24 <nooga> hi Keymaker
23:01:30 <Keymaker> hiya
23:01:48 <nooga> wanna see my useless version of brainfuck? :P
23:02:02 <Keymaker> ok
23:02:07 <Keymaker> go ahead
23:02:56 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-] in brainfuck is equal to:
23:02:56 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog (in #boob)
23:03:10 <nooga> sharp boob :)
23:03:47 <nooga> stupid, eh?
23:03:54 <Keymaker> hehe :D
23:04:11 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
23:04:11 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
23:05:49 <Keymaker> i made nice idea today, though not telling it yet.. one thing is sure; writing a program will be time consuming.. :)
23:06:10 <nooga> yea
23:09:04 <Keymaker> "14:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?"
23:09:19 <Keymaker> what i've learned, on this channel that won't produce any replies :)
23:09:31 <nooga> like many others -.-
23:09:31 <Keymaker> (though, this was exception)
23:10:16 <fizzie> Reminds me of Ook.
23:10:23 <Keymaker> aaaaaaaaaaaargh
23:10:26 <Keymaker> i hate Ook
23:10:34 <Keymaker> i can't stand it :x
23:11:00 <nooga> this one is more intelligent than ook :)
23:11:10 <nooga> oh
23:11:12 <nooga> i know
23:11:33 <nooga> i,'ll add 'i' it will be equal to 'oo'
23:12:06 <nooga> and 'l' = 'ooooo', and 'u'='oooooooooo'
23:12:09 <nooga> YES
23:12:09 <nooga> !
23:12:19 <nooga> that's it, my first eso lang
23:12:22 <Keymaker> :)
23:13:50 <nooga> niog gop nuig pog pop gop non pog gon gog
23:13:52 <nooga> ha!
23:14:58 <Keymaker> here's sample of one (similar to brainfuck) i've been planning    .;;;; .:; :; .;;;; ,:; ,.; ,.:;
23:15:32 <Keymaker> if i remember correctly (i didn't look at my notes about the instructions), that should get '16' to cell (1)
23:16:08 <nooga> o.0
23:16:15 <Keymaker> basically, this is brainfuck, but with some extra instructions and instructions represented non-easier way
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23:20:42 <nooga> hm
23:21:13 <nooga> after writing #boob interpreter i'll try to write C2bf
23:21:24 <Keymaker> uh oh
23:21:27 <nooga> featuring 16 bit variables!
23:21:29 <Keymaker> gonna be hard task
23:21:33 <Keymaker> really hard
23:21:42 <Keymaker> (and someone here is tryin' it already :))
23:21:43 <nooga> but not whole C :P
23:21:50 <Keymaker> yes
23:21:56 <nooga> only basic functionality
23:22:35 <nooga> fear not! i have dragon's book and idea ;]
23:22:47 <Keymaker> uh.. no idea what those are :P
23:23:43 <Keymaker> (to note; with that "(and someone here is ..." i didn't mean myself, since i really am NOT trying it)
23:25:00 <nooga> hm
23:25:10 <nooga> maybe someone can put bf bot here
23:25:16 <Keymaker> hehe
23:25:19 <Keymaker> guess what?
23:25:24 <Keymaker> i've thought the exact same thing
23:25:27 <nooga> ;)
23:25:29 <Keymaker> although i have no idea how bots work
23:26:11 <nooga> but i have
23:26:12 <Keymaker> but some bot that could execute bf code (and kick us all out because of a dangerous program)
23:26:26 <Keymaker> ..would be cool 
23:26:32 <nooga> ok
23:26:43 <nooga> ill write one tommorow and put on my shell
23:26:57 <Keymaker> hmm, sounds interesting
23:26:58 <nooga> hah -.- perl again
23:27:45 <Keymaker> i'll suggest the "standardish" EOF=0 to make everyone's life easier
23:28:49 <nooga> okay
23:28:56 <nooga> bye now
23:29:00 <Keymaker> bye
23:29:01 <nooga> must go to bed -.-
23:29:06 <Keymaker> good idea
23:29:39 <Keymaker> i think i'll go as well -- i think i realized how to write a quine. <heart attack> ghafhwiu wiageoihgewiho nnngghhhh
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2004-12-27:

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06:14:59 <calamari_> hi
06:15:09 <lament> hti
06:15:10 <lament> eorcug
06:15:13 <lament> crgx
06:15:14 <lament> oops.
06:16:35 <calamari_> how's it going? :)
06:17:04 <calamari_> just looking up how to find the # of sectors, etc on a floppy to make this silly bootable bf thing  
06:17:04 <lament> up and down, up and down.
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12:41:14 <Keymaker> mornin'/evenin'
12:41:24 <Keymaker> i made that quine today :)
12:46:26 <Keymaker> hmmm, seems that i can't get the ftp program working
12:47:28 <Keymaker> i'll post it later; bye.
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16:03:52 <puzzlet> http://puzzlet.org/puzzlet/~Funge/PuzzletChung/SquareRoot
16:04:06 <puzzlet> One of my experiments..
16:04:56 <mtve> automatically optimized?
16:05:31 <puzzlet> no, i did it by hand.
16:06:05 <puzzlet> in fact, i'm just learning funge
16:06:25 <mtve> very nice
16:11:02 <mtve> bf interpreter is nice
16:12:00 <puzzlet> Thanks, but there is some bug in the interpreter.
16:12:29 <puzzlet> When there are more than one pair of [] in the code, it doesn't work.
16:15:31 <puzzlet> My friend tokigun was working on md5, but have went for sleep.
16:15:32 <puzzlet> http://sapzil.info/tmp/fungemd5.bf
16:16:05 <puzzlet> had*
16:16:12 <mtve> great project.
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16:26:15 <nooga_> ha
16:26:22 <nooga_> my eso lang is almst done
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18:40:42 <Keymaker> hello
18:40:50 <ZeroOne> hey
18:40:54 <Keymaker> hi
18:41:06 <Keymaker> do you know any good free host?
18:41:10 <Keymaker> ad-free
18:41:16 <Keymaker> just temporary..
18:41:30 <ZeroOne> umm... nope. what would you put online?
18:41:38 <mtve> 127.0.0.1
18:41:38 <Keymaker> that brainfuck quine
18:41:42 <Keymaker> :)
18:44:12 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: try this: http://www.webspawner.com/scripts/entry.pl?e=google&k=%22free+homepage%22 
18:44:34 <ZeroOne> that looks like totally "homepage in a minute" :D
18:45:27 <Keymaker> :) not my cup of tea
18:45:44 <Keymaker> (though, i'm not much of a web designer)
18:46:06 <ZeroOne> what was wrong with it?
18:46:20 <ZeroOne> you said you need just a temporary host
18:46:28 <Keymaker> well
18:46:35 <ZeroOne> that one looks like you could create a page and then just forget about it :)
18:46:36 <Keymaker> i don't like that kind of things
18:46:46 <Keymaker> maybe i just wait
18:47:14 <ZeroOne> ok ;) just google for "free homepage" or something.
18:47:22 <Keymaker> :)
18:47:40 <Keymaker> maybe i should buy some webspace for bf
18:48:15 <Keymaker> i'd get this: http://www.int2000.net/?act=webhotelli&palvelu=simple&lang=fi
18:48:23 <Keymaker> i wouldn't need php support or much space,
18:48:30 <Keymaker> just place to store some codes
18:49:58 <ZeroOne> don't you get any webspace from your ISP?
18:50:07 <Keymaker> at least haven't seen any
18:50:10 <Keymaker> this isp is crap
18:50:18 <Keymaker> (literally)
18:50:48 <lindi-> Keymaker: netsonic? works here nicely
18:51:39 <Keymaker> hmmm
18:51:40 <lindi-> Keymaker: just ftp ftp.netsonic.fi
18:51:53 <Keymaker> is there really?!
18:52:01 <Keymaker> i haven't got any info about that
18:52:25 <lindi-> can't verify now, iptables seems to be killing ftp
18:52:53 <Keymaker> ah yes.
18:52:59 <ZeroOne> hah, pwned :)
18:53:02 <Keymaker> seems to be true, accordin' to their site
18:53:05 <Keymaker> :)
18:53:27 <Keymaker> hmmm, i'll check what the user name is -- in case its some stupid then i won't
18:54:05 <lindi-> Keymaker: er, sane people use things like iki.fi as forwarders
18:54:06 <ZeroOne> that shouldn't matter either. you can always create a redirect address that hides the actual address.
18:54:27 <ZeroOne> like www.keymakersbrainfuck.tk or keymakerbf.cjb.net or something like that
18:54:36 <Keymaker> :)
18:54:41 <ZeroOne> iki.fi is not free
18:54:47 <lindi-> yep, that's a feature
18:54:58 <ZeroOne> and the registeration is not instant
18:55:00 <lindi-> it will be around in 2010 too
18:55:04 <lindi-> true
18:55:16 <Keymaker> :)
18:55:30 <ZeroOne> I believe mbnet is around in 2010 too.
18:55:40 <lindi-> mbnet is not free either
18:55:51 <ZeroOne> nope
18:56:00 <Keymaker> i think i'll just spend that 20e sometime to get that domain -- i've planned to buy some bf place anyways
18:56:31 <Keymaker> or not necessarily entirely for brainfuck, but for some esoteric programming language projects
18:56:44 <lindi-> ZeroOne: also iki.fi costs are O(1) while mbnet is O(n)
18:58:42 <ZeroOne> lindi-: you mean you get an eternal iki account for paying only once? how much?
18:58:43 <lindi-> Keymaker: i have things like homepna here too, it's a miracle everything seems to more or less work
18:58:53 <lindi-> ZeroOne: currently it's "pay once"
18:59:15 <lindi-> it will change if they can't afford the system without
18:59:32 <lindi-> but currently they have enough money to run it till 2015 or something even if nobody pays
18:59:46 <Keymaker> lindi-: i see
18:59:50 <lindi-> ZeroOne: it's 30 EUR
19:00:33 <lindi-> and it's non-profit organisation so they don't just start to ask for more money ;)
19:00:35 <ZeroOne> lindi-: that's quite a lot if actually the only thing you get is a redirect address for your email and homepage :P
19:00:42 <lindi-> depends
19:01:02 <lindi-> it's a headache to change email addresses
19:01:13 <ZeroOne> I bet
19:02:16 <ZeroOne> just for the fun of it, I just reserved the address http://brainfuck.tk/ :)
19:02:25 <lindi-> but i must admit that i avoided iki.fi for a long time because i thought it'd cost too much
19:03:53 <Keymaker> nice 01
19:04:44 <ZeroOne> I'm hooked to mbnet because of the homepage space and the email address
19:05:03 <lindi-> my little sister had that problem too
19:05:15 <lindi-> it took two years for her to migrate to iki.fi address
19:05:20 <ZeroOne> the homepage space is namely 50 MB but in fact there are no limits ;o
19:05:31 <Keymaker> :)
19:05:39 <lindi-> i have my 'homepage' on a friends box with gigabytes of space ;)
19:05:41 <ZeroOne> lindi-: darn. I just thought it would take me one year.
19:05:54 <ZeroOne> lindi-: lucky one ;P
19:06:09 <Keymaker> congrats, btw; your bf interpreter executed the bf quine perfectly (7122 instructions)
19:06:14 <ZeroOne> how many forwarding addresses do you get with iki anyway?
19:06:24 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: haha, thanks. :)
19:06:37 <lindi-> ZeroOne: it was just something along the lines of "whoops, i forgot to inform person X and service Y about my new address, can't cancel mikrobitti yet"
19:06:50 <lindi-> ZeroOne: two
19:07:06 <lindi-> firstname.lastname and then nickname
19:07:33 <ZeroOne> lindi-: I know... another email address I had timed out and now there are a couple of services I can't access anymore because I don't remember their passwords and cannot regain the address where they could send it ;G
19:07:43 <lindi-> exactly
19:07:55 <ZeroOne> that pretty much sucks.
19:08:13 <lindi-> that almost happened to me with verkkokauppa.com
19:09:57 <lindi-> ZeroOne: http://www.iki.fi/iki/statistics.html is rather interesting btw, it's not exponential
19:11:28 <ZeroOne> hmm. true.
19:45:47 <Keymaker> goodbye.
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20:33:13 <nooga> ha
20:33:20 <nooga> my interpreter is almost ready
20:33:32 <nooga> some little bugfixes needed
20:39:00 <mtve> typical excuses of a programmer.
20:40:13 <ZeroOne> :D
20:40:28 <nooga> muehe
20:40:47 <nooga> writing code - 10 minutes
20:40:47 <ZeroOne> "some little bugfixes needed" == "I have done almost half of the work"
20:40:54 <nooga> fixing bugz - 3h :P
20:40:59 <ZeroOne> indeed ;)
20:41:34 <nooga> once i said "i've almost done" to my client
20:41:45 <nooga> he waited 3 months xD
20:48:08 <ZeroOne> argh
20:48:13 <ZeroOne> I won't order anything from you ;)
20:48:23 <nooga> ;]
20:48:31 <nooga> i did that work for free -.-
20:48:52 <nooga> but it was worth 200$ :P
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2004-12-28:

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04:13:20 <puzzlet> http://pandora.sapzil.info/dev/obfuscation/file/md5calc.bf
04:13:34 <puzzlet> My friend's work
05:11:00 <lindi-> wow
05:17:35 <lament> pretty
07:57:47 <fizzie_> Heh, uses "Orthogonal Easement Library", can't remeber what that did, but it's got a great name.
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08:16:58 <puzzlet> md5 requires bitwise operations, which are implemented in ORTH.
08:26:53 <fizzie_> Ah.
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16:58:46 <calamari_> hi
16:58:54 <nooga> hellooo
16:59:07 <calamari_> hi nooga, how are you?
16:59:26 <nooga> fine, thx
16:59:30 <nooga> and You?
16:59:52 <nooga> ive made eso lang
17:01:34 <calamari_> doing okay
17:01:48 <calamari_> cool! do you have a page on it?
17:02:22 <nooga> nah... -.- i will make one tommorow
17:03:12 <calamari_> i worked a little bit on that bf operating system last night
17:03:26 <calamari_> I'm not sure how well my original idea will work
17:05:04 <calamari_> essentially what is needed is a bf where there is memory access to the code space
17:05:19 <nooga> uhm
17:05:31 <nooga> okay... got to go
17:05:42 <nooga> see you next time ;/
17:05:57 <calamari_> otherwise, loading new programs becomes impossible.  a side effect is self-modifying code
17:06:00 <calamari_> k, cya :)
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17:24:37 <calamari_> hi puzzlet
17:25:04 <It`s_Puzzlet> hi calamari_
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18:07:00 <calamari_> puzzlet: are you familiar with brainf***?
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19:15:17 <mtve> calamari: sure he is, he wrote (partial) bf in befunge.
19:16:40 <mtve> http://puzzlet.org/puzzlet/Funge~PuzzletChung/Brainfuck
20:30:12 <calamari_> hehe
20:30:43 <calamari_> well, I have a bootable brainf*** interpreter.. now what?
20:31:34 <calamari_> adding instructions to bf seems to be looked down upon
20:32:07 <calamari_> for example, I could add ( ) for previous and next disk byte, and @ to switch between screen/kybd and disk I/O
20:32:53 <calamari_> or I could disguise the addition of new instructions with output sequences
20:33:07 <calamari_> seems lame tho
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2004-12-29:

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02:32:46 <calamari_> re's
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02:37:48 <sanxiyn> http://pandora.sapzil.info/dev/obfuscation/md5calc.php
02:37:57 <sanxiyn> md5sum written in Befunge.
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03:24:49 <lament> Taaus: do you have recordings of mozart's sonatas?
03:45:52 <Taaus> Nope. Sorry.
05:22:02 * calamari_ notes that using 15 bytes to save 8 doesn't really help much :P
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18:49:33 <calamari_> hi
18:50:31 * calamari_ needs to implement some kind of caching on this thing.. reading a sector at a time really slows things down 
19:24:49 <cpressey> calamari_: hi
19:25:02 <calamari_> hi Chris.. been a long time :)
19:27:06 <cpressey> :)
19:27:22 <cpressey> i haven't done anything with esolangs in a looong while.
19:27:38 <cpressey> well, nothing of note anyway.
19:27:40 <calamari_> I'm just messing around right now
19:28:02 <cpressey> yeah, i saw... bf OS, huh?  very cool :)
19:29:04 <calamari_> I thought I had an idea on how to make it work, but I'm not so sure anymore, so it's just a bootable bf interpreter at this point
19:32:49 <cpressey> i've been pondering ideas for how to get esolangs to talk to the outside world, which is something an eso OS would need.
19:33:52 <cpressey> the only thing most esolangs have in common is the standard input/output, so i was thinking, some kind of escape sequence through it would be the best way.
19:34:04 <calamari_> yeah
19:34:06 <cpressey> for example, output control-E, then a couple of bytes
19:34:09 <calamari_> I considered that
19:34:34 <calamari_> it's very similar in concept to adding addtional instructions
19:35:42 <cpressey> yeah.  one problem is that there is really no good way for a program to 'detect' whether it's runing under this system or not.  but otherwise, i can't think of a better way.  adding instructions to the language is ugly IMHO, and it doesn't really apply cross-linguistically, so there'd be no consistency for an e.g. befunge or malbolge OS
19:36:52 <calamari_> good point
19:38:06 <calamari_> a lot of old dos tsr's had an "installation check"
19:38:36 <calamari_> you called an interrupt and if there was sopmething installed you got back a certain pattern in the registers
19:39:46 <calamari_> it's not nice to midify memory tho.. so I see what you mean
19:40:10 <cpressey> right.  but if the only way to communicate back to the program is through standard input, the "installation check" in this case has to read from standard input.  and if it's not running under the eso system, well, it waits for a key :) which isn't pretty, but i suppose it works alright
19:41:05 <cpressey> the other problem is that output of arbitrary binary data might trigger the 'escape codes' accidentally
19:41:31 <cpressey> but otoh, these are esolangs, so we don't have to look at these as problems per se, they can be 'fun features'!
19:41:37 <cpressey> :)
19:41:37 <calamari_> right
19:41:46 <calamari_> that's why it might be a good idea to make the escape code 00h
19:42:31 <calamari_> of course 00h 00h would output 00h
19:42:54 <calamari_> but it nseems easier (at least from a BF perspective)
19:43:40 <calamari_> I think we got this far with ESO.. but nobody came up with a decent API :)
19:43:52 <calamari_> I worked on a few, but none were any good
19:44:16 <cpressey> i was meaning to, but it's a big project and i never found the time.
19:44:47 <cpressey> i did do some work on a program that would intercept and translate another program's I/O, but it's only partly done and only works on unix
19:44:55 <calamari_> if it were designed well, the same api could be used for all sorts of stuff like GUI applications, etc
19:46:14 <calamari_> hmm.. just had a thought
19:46:43 <calamari_> if there isn't a master plan and things are just tacked on, it will add to the esoteric factor
19:47:47 <calamari_> I have about 140 bytes left in my boot sector to play with, so my API will be small.. but that's okay
19:48:34 <cpressey> heh
19:49:12 <cpressey> right, i didn't consider that what you meant by "bootable bf interpreter" must have been bf-in-the-bootblock :)
19:49:44 <calamari_> I've made "real" boot sectors that load kernels, etc.. but it seemed cooler if I could fit everything in one sector 
19:50:05 <cpressey> the nice thing about escape sequences is that as long as there's an unassigned code somewhere they can be extended
19:50:33 <cpressey> so, yeah.  this could be fun, i might turn my attention to it again if i can find the time...
19:50:34 <calamari_> I have a fat and root directory with a PROGRAM.B that can be overwritten
19:51:38 <calamari_> afk.. need to get some chores done
19:51:58 <cpressey> yep, me too.  ttyl.
20:31:30 <calamari_> hmm.. I think my original idea can work
20:31:54 <calamari_> just have an installation check where it returns a value
20:32:25 <calamari_> for example 00h 008h (because then you get the printed backspace as a bonus)
20:32:31 <calamari_> err 08h
20:32:50 <calamari_> if it changes to 00h, then the api is installed
20:34:46 <calamari_> here is a proof-of-concept code block:
20:34:49 <calamari_> +>.++++++++.[++++++[>++>+++++>++++++++>+++++++>+<<<<<-]>>-.>+++.----.<
20:34:49 <calamari_> ----.+++++++++++++++.-------.<++++.>>+++.>+++.<-.++++.>++++.<---.>----
20:34:49 <calamari_> .-.>-.---.>>]<[ program goes here ]
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2004-12-30:

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03:10:20 <calamari_> hi
04:04:41 <puzzlet> hi
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04:30:39 <lament> hi
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04:36:18 <calamari-> hi lament
04:36:53 <calamari-> started on the EsoAPI.. "installation check" is working :)
04:37:47 <calamari-> I have 92 bytes left.. yikes
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06:31:42 <calamari-> cool.. seems to be working now.  24 bytes to spare :)
06:32:48 <calamari-> ; API Call      Result
06:32:49 <calamari-> ; --------      ------
06:32:49 <calamari-> ; 01h - FFh     OUTPUT character
06:32:49 <calamari-> ; 00h 00h       OUTPUT 00h
06:32:49 <calamari-> ; 00h 01h       NEXT SECTOR
06:32:50 <calamari-> ; 00h 02h       PREVIOUS SECTOR
06:32:52 <calamari-> ; 00h 03h       READ SECTOR
06:32:54 <calamari-> ; 00h 04h       WRITE SECTOR
06:32:56 <calamari-> ; 00h 08h       INSTALLATION CHECK, returns 0
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08:31:16 <calamari_> okay.. bos 1.00 is on my website:  http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/programs/bf/bf.html
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21:08:02 <mtve> calamari: wouldn't it be better to add some kind of syncronization?  i mean Type/Lenght/Value approach are more extendable.
21:16:21 <calamari_> mtve: ? not sure what you're referring to
21:16:59 <mtve> EsoAPI.  there is an escape code 00h (header), type byte.
21:17:27 <mtve> there could probably be a value part.  but no lenght, so there will be some hairy protocol,
21:17:49 <mtve> with exceptions, special cases, hard to evolve and so on.
21:18:43 <calamari_> I don't follow you I guess.. are you having trouble understanding how to issue api commands?
21:19:05 <calamari_> 01 - ff are normal output
21:19:14 <calamari_> 00 00 is regular 00
21:19:15 <mtve> nope, for now api is very clean and simple.
21:19:26 <calamari_> so you can output 00 - ff
21:19:58 <calamari_> are you wanting a two character escape code?
21:20:10 <calamari_> where the second char tells how long the escape is?
21:20:16 <mtve> but in case one day you will think about adding new features, it will become more complicated.
21:20:38 <calamari_> complicated is good, right? :)
21:20:51 <mtve> so it will be versions, (in)compatibility and so on.  that's what i mean :)
21:22:20 <mtve> there can be utf8-like approach. 00 00 - 00 7F codes are for one-byte commands, 00 80 xx - 00 BF xx are for 12-bits commands, and so on.
21:22:51 <mtve> i just want to say we could think about it now.
21:23:31 <mtve> sorry, bad math, 14-bits commands.
21:26:16 <calamari_> well, check this out.. 00 05 is free, so use that if you like, 00 05 02 xx xx can be a two byte command 
21:26:39 <calamari_> etc :)
21:26:57 <calamari_> I'm hoping that there will be different versions 
21:27:48 <mtve> oh, it's better to be only one API and i think everyone here would like to see _you_ as the keeper/commander for it :)
21:28:11 <calamari_> its GPL, so everyone is commander ;)
21:29:14 <calamari_> unfortunately, bos is maxed out, I think I have about 16 bytes free, not enough to add any more to the api 1.0
21:29:40 <calamari_> I think I gave it enough to write an os using bf commands, though
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22:16:22 <calamari_> hi lament
22:25:04 <lament> hi
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19:53:39 <calamari> +++++[>++++++++++<-]>.--..+++++.
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