< 1094007488 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094007488 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1094007757 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094011066 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tnemal < 1094013960 0 :tnemal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1094019973 0 :ZeroOne!~villes@unixnet12.kpnqwest.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094025599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094025600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094066166 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.194.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094066984 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094068268 0 :divgrad!~wer@195.222.82.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1094068391 0 :divgrad!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1094081869 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1094099151 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094099189 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1094099392 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.72.28.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094099609 0 :ZeroOne!~villes@unixnet12.kpnqwest.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094106640 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094111999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094112000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094120157 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094120251 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094126038 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094126087 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094129144 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094129187 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094130652 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1094181272 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094181272 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1094186652 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.116.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094192535 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094198399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094198400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094199460 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :saudade < 1094209446 0 :saudade!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094209536 0 :saudade!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094209556 0 :saudade!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1094209561 0 :saudade!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094276637 0 :MonkeyJump!~chatzilla@tx-67-76-198-5.sta.sprint-hsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094277492 0 :MonkeyJump!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1094284799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094284800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094327227 0 :saudade!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1094351956 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094352150 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094352150 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094363355 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ACK! SIGSEGV! < 1094363422 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094363422 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094371199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094371200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094435106 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.211.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094436268 0 :calamari-!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.211.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094436270 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1094436308 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1094449147 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.243.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094451084 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1094451127 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.243.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094451271 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1094456480 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1094457599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094457600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094478510 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094482236 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094482236 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1094482392 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1094482392 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1094482677 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094482700 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094482700 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094483012 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1094486091 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094503947 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.237.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094509691 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094526021 0 :toreun!~toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094532325 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@4.240.111.191 JOIN :#esoteric < 1094532325 0 :toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1094534321 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094543999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094544000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094557992 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094558008 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094558008 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094558782 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094558798 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094558798 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094559770 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094559785 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094559785 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094560159 0 :JoeyP!JoeyP@cp293874-a.landg1.lb.home.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1094560161 0 :JoeyP!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1094560278 0 :JoeyP!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1094566180 0 :fizzie_!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094566180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1094591067 0 :fizzie_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1094592475 0 :toreun!~toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094592505 0 :toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1094592689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1094592734 0 :IRCMonkey65438!~chatzilla@ottawa-hs-64-26-156-112.s-ip.magma.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1094592766 0 :IRCMonkey65438!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1094614980 0 :toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1094625865 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ACK! SIGSEGV! < 1094627944 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1094628138 0 :fizzie_!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094628148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1094628278 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1094630205 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094630205 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094630399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094630400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094637225 0 :fizzie_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1094665291 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.199.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1094674898 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1094679533 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1094680928 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1094687606 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1094716799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094716800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094803199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094803200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094841416 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1094841576 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1094889599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094889600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094975999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1094976000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1094983622 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094983965 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094983965 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094984235 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094984899 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094984899 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1094986052 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1094986137 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1094986137 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1095051656 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051659 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051659 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051663 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051665 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095051744 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095051744 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1095062399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095062400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095074452 0 :lindi-!~lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095074456 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mui. < 1095074647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehlo. < 1095074715 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1095074754 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we use english or finnish in this channel? < 1095074865 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like english to me < 1095074918 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine by me. :P so where's that befunge-interpreter of yours? < 1095075045 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's been forgotten for a year or so, i was supposed to releaese it when i could make it less ugly but that never happened < 1095075045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, what befunge interpreter, where? < 1095075057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "jit-compiling" one? < 1095075061 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1095075115 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. ok. :/ here's my brainfuck-interpreter anyway: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~villes/php/bf.php (nested loops still not implemented). < 1095075425 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwd < 1095075427 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1095075442 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337 < 1095075475 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's really ugly, crappy and all but due to popular demand i'll put a version online soon, just a sec < 1095075825 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: iki.fi/lindi/binterp < 1095076280 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: fizzie: and especially iki.fi/lindi/binterp/binterp-0.001/BENCHMARKS :) < 1095076706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, benchmarked with ff? < 1095076733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, ff is relatively fast as far as 'real interpreters' go. < 1095076832 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1095076896 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: iirc ff was the (second) fastest i could find to run fibonacci.2.bf < 1095076934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I benchmarked speedwise it was pretty close to mooz's 'bef'. < 1095076947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code-quality-wise and buglessness-wise perhaps not so. < 1095076948 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you please put out fibonacci source code too? < 1095076958 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: it's there now < 1095076965 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: i silently updated the .tar.gz < 1095076988 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1095076993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a recursive implementation? (judging from the speed.) < 1095077080 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, optimizators without 'p' operator could go very far. < 1095077083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's seems to be mooz's newest optimized version of my old fibre.bef. < 1095077135 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i could put some credits there actually < 1095077164 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the file has been lying in my home directory for a year so that i really can't remember where those originally came from < 1095077179 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fibonacci.2.bf fibonacci.3.bf fibonacci.4.bf fibonacci.5.bf fibonacci.6.bf fibonacci.bf < 1095077183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hheh. < 1095077262 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://iki.fi/lindi/binterp/binterp-0.001/BENCHMARKS now includes mooz's bef too < 1095077483 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: 'p' could be possible to implement by calling construct_linked_list() and generate_code() again < 1095077506 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1095077548 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and foo bar p could mark (foo, bar) as dirty so that recompilation would occur only if the program flow hits (foo, bar) < 1095077575 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean s/foo/x/g;s/bar/y/g < 1095081080 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've created quite a few esoteric programming language articles in Wikipedia during the past month. you guys can see, too, if you can create or improve any of these articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_esoteric_programming_languages :) < 1095111450 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095111606 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095114243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1095114950 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095144391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1095148799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095148800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161743 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161744 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161744 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161746 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161746 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161752 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :burroughs.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095161753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1095161759 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :lindi-!~lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095161813 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1095184833 0 :fizzie_!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095184833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095192338 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095192339 0 :fizzie_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095194373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095195060 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095196416 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: so what do you think about the idea of a fungeoid with variable length commands? or anyone else? < 1095196786 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: interesting idea, have you tried to define the commands for such a language? < 1095196820 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and check if it it open any interesting possibilities) < 1095196885 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: no, I haven't done anything but this initial idea. ;p < 1095196901 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I did think that it would be nice if the program flow could go diagonally < 1095196940 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the befunge-# would need to be able to jump over more than one next character < 1095197016 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if variable length commands didn't work, then three characters long, but so that vertical movement would still be treated by single columns, not by colums of three. < 1095197039 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1095197273 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something has to be thought for orphan letters which probably will appear. maybe if a letter set doesn't form an instruction, it could be pushed to stack < 1095197379 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, at least throwing out 'syntax error' does not feel nice < 1095197418 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, definitely not < 1095197433 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the purpose of the language is to have such a complex syntax that one actually has to take advantage of syntax errors -g) < 1095197478 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1095197499 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. that would be something. error-based language. < 1095197527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merh, our interweb connection is flaky. < 1095197555 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inttar web < 1095197568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think esolang (the mailing list) had some talk about how to get more possible commands for befunge. < 1095197590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a longer jump than #, you can use funge98, it has all the "cheating" instructions one could wish for. < 1095197641 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. can you define new functions in it, too? :) < 1095197733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, no, but that's ultra-cheaty. < 1095197733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang discussion actually might've been about befunge and functions. < 1095197811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to write a befunge variant with "define", "call" and "return" instructions. 'define' would take an (x,y) pair that defines the start of an function and a small integer 'n' which would be the "name", 'call' would pop n and go to the function, but push the return address to stack, and 'return' would pop the return address off the stack and go back. < 1095197830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I wanted a separate "execution stack" or to use the normal stack for it. < 1095197883 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate stack would be too easy < 1095197899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but if I use the normal stack then delivering parameters to functions will be hard. < 1095197923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could of course have 'define' take the number of arguments and then do some creative rearranging on 'call'. < 1095197952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the function could do some funky stuff with its own return address if it wanted. < 1095198050 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: btw, completely offtopic, is there some way to search messages in tkknews.hut.fi? < 1095198072 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without having to fetch all the messages) < 1095198147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure. I don't think so, but I think the subject might've been discussed in the news when tkknews was introduced. < 1095198154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you could try searching for that" :p < 1095198255 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rright.. so no direct access to the filesystem where the messages are? < 1095198316 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask in the atk-keskus newsgroup... < 1095198448 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey lindi-... remember that stupid picture in today's Power Point show? the one where the PC was cooking something. < 1095198458 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what about it? < 1095198476 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the teacher didn't know how good the "programming is like making recipes" comparison was: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/chef.html ;) < 1095198520 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that one, but i did recall that rms uses that comparison often too < 1095198564 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's rms? < 1095198609 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or who < 1095198691 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: richard stallman, stallman.org < 1095219446 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.245.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095219449 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1095219561 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1095221752 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1095235199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095235200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095260670 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1095299599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1095321599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095321600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095332339 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1095332352 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095433691 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095433691 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1095446348 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095446354 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey.. < 1095446973 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: interesting php brainfuck interpreter coming up there < 1095447061 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully you'll get the inner-loops support done sometime to get ',[[.>]<]' working :) < 1095447092 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, good luck < 1095447331 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1095469196 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1095469227 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there already exists a php brainfuck interpreter < 1095472525 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@1106-wstoughton.halo.soltec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095488024 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1095494399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095494400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095580799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095580800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095616665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1095616678 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095638302 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.148.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095644498 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1095667199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095667200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095696615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095696617 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095713467 0 :fizzie_!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095713467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095747440 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.147.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095750593 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1095753599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095753600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095839999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095840000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095840951 0 :mtve2!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095840951 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095852202 0 :mtve2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mtve < 1095872166 0 :fizzie_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1095880645 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1095880709 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: in my previous message i had a small brainfuck code ',[[.>]<]' < 1095880748 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: well, of course i didn't think that in php interpreter that kind of infinite printing most probably won't happen :} sorry about that < 1095880788 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: so, ',[[.>]<-]' a good target :) < 1095880863 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with this start 'ZeroOne: ' i mean that these lines are meant for you to read :) < 1095880876 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, good night all < 1095880878 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1095881141 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: OK. < 1095881164 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just afraid that I need to do an Ugly Hack(tm) to make those nested loops work < 1095881220 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like Ugly Hacks and I'm sort of short of time nowadays but I'll try to get to it sooner than later. :) < 1095885447 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1095885456 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1095893532 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095893532 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1095926399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1095926400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1095956810 0 :rgarro77!~rgarro@200.12.239.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1095958704 0 :rgarro77!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1095961894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop is the brokenness now. :( < 1095961899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"was fun while it lasted". < 1095961928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in retrospect ~1550eur was a bit much for a machine that worked for six days. < 1095964964 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1095965071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's over 250eur/day, after all. < 1095968120 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: btw, while cycling back home i got a new idea regarding that language where one task can be done in only one way < 1095968147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborate. clog's back. < 1095968470 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if every program is presented as a mathematical function, say f(x), then the language could be defined so that only the form of f(x) that is the "most" simplified is legal < 1095968523 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: at least with polynomials it should not be possible to get a function (read: program) that behaves in the same way, unless the functions are identical < 1095968562 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the core idea is that there needs to be some set of simplication rules < 1095968576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellll, yes, if you limit your mathematical notation enough. < 1095968712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polynomials are safe in that way. < 1095968777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think we proved in one of our maths courses that n-degree polynomials are.. ah, what's the word? n-ulotteisen avaruuden kanta, tavallaan. yksikäsitteiset koordinaatit ja näin. < 1095968788 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1095968872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still pretty limited, though, but at least your 'programs' can now take a set of real numbers as input and return a set of real numbers as output. < 1095968973 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. interesting. < 1095969002 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "radix of n-dimensional space, sort of. unambiguous coordinates etc." < 1095969017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. < 1095969027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the 'radix' word I wasn't so sure of. < 1095969162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex functions make for some really weird plots. < 1095969193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you happen to have mathematica and/or an equivalent piece of software (perhaps gnuplot would be enough), plot Plot3D[Arg[f2[x, y]], {x, -5, 5}, {y, -5, 5}, PlotPoints -> 100, < 1095969196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mesh -> False] < 1095969200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erhm. < 1095969205 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: so every program would be a polynomial of degree n, or something? < 1095969210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a piece of misplaced copypasting. < 1095969224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it doesn't include the actual function. < 1095969276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f2[x_, y_] := x^3 + 3x y^2 - 3x + i(y^3 + 3x^2y - 3y), where 'i' is the imaginary unit. when you plot the magnitude of that as a surface, it's as clean and smooth as.. well, as any function you'd like to name, but the argument plot.. < 1095969318 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... unfortunately I don't have any math software installed... I guess I should soon get something. < 1095969334 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: well, if you extend the simplification rules you can support many other types too < 1095969368 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I once made a program that was able to draw 2d-diagrams of polynomial functions. in qbasic, even. ;P= < 1095969379 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote one in ti86 basic :P < 1095969418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to limit yourself to finite-degree polynomials, otherwise you could have an infinitely-long program which would do the same as 'sin x' (if you write some simplification rules to allow trig. funcs) < 1095969419 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. but TI features all math functions built-in, qbasic doesn't. < 1095969447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, 2d plots of polynomials seems to be a popular project. < 1095969449 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gotta love mr. Taylor. < 1095969468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was an exercise-or-sort-of in my high school. < 1095969477 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but what if "sin x" is not allowed but only the 'sarjakehitelmä' < 1095969488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz at least wrote a.. pretty advanced one, in qbasic. < 1095969527 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that reminds me, where does mooz irc nowadays? /whois shows no channels but maybe they are secret/private < 1095969536 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. :) we only had some really stupid piece of some software the teacher had made. copied that from paper and got disappointed when it did practically nothing: "oh, no, it shouldn't do anything, it's just the initialization function thingie!" was the teacher's response ;PP < 1095969599 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is mooz? < 1095969605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, really. I speak mostly in a query. he's been gradually moving to an apartment in kamppi, probably parted from #da during that time. < 1095969741 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: apt-get install maxima and plot3d(x^3 + 3*x*y^2 - 3*x + %I*(y^3 + 3*x^2*y - 3*y), [x,-5,5], [y,-5,5]); if you want to see the function fizzie pasted < 1095969750 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1095969811 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can even rotate the plot < 1095969834 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: apt-get doesn't work under winblows, you know. < 1095969897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does maxima plot complex-valued two-variable functions? < 1095969908 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/maxima/maxima-5.9.0.exe?download < 1095969935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mathematica I need to use either Abs[] or Arg[] (well, or Re[] or Im[]) in front of it. < 1095969937 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine... :p < 1095970032 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: iki.fi/lindi/maxima_plot3d.png < 1095970048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but that's just the real part of it. < 1095970066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to use abs() or arg() (or corresponding maxima functions) if you want to see the strange-ness I mentioned. < 1095970119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually while the magnitude plot with abs() looks smooth, looking at it with the ranges [-2, 2] reveals otherwise. < 1095970343 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: plot3d(cabs(x^3 + 3*x*y^2 - 3*x + %I*(y^3 + 3*x^2*y - 3*y)), [x,-5,5], [y,-5,5]); looks like iki.fi/lindi/maxima_plot3d_2.png < 1095970393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, doesn't it look pretty smooth? < 1095970555 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1095970574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what about either a) the range [-2, 2] or b) the argument of the result? < 1095970588 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argument? < 1095970594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also called 'angle'. < 1095970599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which maxima function it is. < 1095970715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra credit for proving in which points of C that function is a) complex differentiable b) analytic. (the b part was relatively easy, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that a part.) < 1095970861 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now it does not look that smooth either indeed, iki.fi/lindi/maxima_plot3d_3.png < 1095970929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh. < 1095971337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, scratch that, now I'm not quite sure of the b part either. :p < 1095971353 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem, i'm even more unsure :) < 1095971367 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: were you in L1 or C1 math btw? < 1095971392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L1. < 1095971473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the fact the function satisfies the cauchy-riemann equations only in the points of the imaginary and real axis, and therefore not in any real region of C, would be enough in stating it's not analytical. it still _might_ be, but.. < 1095971568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the canonical definition would be that a complex function is analytical in point z0 if a derivative f' exists for all points z in a neighbourhood of z0, but in order to use that would require me solving the a) question. < 1095971582 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1095971664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days I'm not quite sure why I'm in the L* series of maths courses anyway. < 1095971764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right. in order for f to be analytical in a region G it would have the partial derivatives of its component functions satisfying cauchy-riemann, and since that isn't the case it can't be analytical. (I think.) < 1095971860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need some way to solve that 'a' part. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to prove that lim h->0 (f(z+h)-f(z))/h exists when h is a complex number and can approach 0 from any direction in the complex plane. < 1095971874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and this for any z.) < 1095971915 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know much about handling those (yet) < 1095972002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I, but I'm sort-of supposed to. there could be a better way to do this though. < 1095972158 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least i've learned something this week. when i cycled back home today i could also do some partical fraction decompositions in my head :P < 1095972172 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/partical/partial/ < 1095972333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I freely admit I don't remember ~anything about how to do a LU-decomposition of a matrix. < 1095973386 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, need to sleep so that i can be awake on the math lecture < 1095973391 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/on/during/ :P < 1095973399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hnu. < 1095973403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night. < 1095974783 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yippee... Complex analysis. < 1095974948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads of fun. < 1095975009 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's not too bad. I'm taking a course on it this semester. < 1095975468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? then you can tell me what's the easiest way to show where the derivative f'(z) for a complex function f(z) exists. < 1095975520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the definition of f' (that is, f'(z) = lim h->0 (f(z+h)-f(z)/h) is awfully untrivial since h can approach 0 from any direction and I need to look at all points z. < 1095975667 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... "Easiest" depends on the situation. But the Cauchy-Riemann equations are a safe bet. < 1095975948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are CR enough? I mean, they definitely are enough to prove whether the function is analytical anywhere, but f'(z) could still exist in some isolated points without it being analytical there. < 1095976178 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function f=u+iv from an open subset of the complex plane to the complex plane itself is holomorphic if u and v are differentiable, and if the partial derivatives satisfy the relations du/dx = dv/dy and du/dy = -dv/dx (where the ds are "soft ds". I.e. partial differentiation.) < 1095976211 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/holomorphic if/holomorphic if and only if/ < 1095976296 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be applied to single points of the function as well. To prove differentiability in, say, (x_0,y_0). < 1095976452 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by f'(z) existing in isolated points without being analytic in said points. < 1095976875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my definition of an analytic function says a function is analytic at point z0 if f'(z) exists for all z in a neighbourhood of z0, and it has a side remark saying "existance of f'(z) in a single point is not enough" < 1095976880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this in my lecture notes. < 1095977073 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. My notes don't mention analyticity in a single point. In gives the usual limit definition of differentiability and says a function is holomorphic if it is differentiable in all points. I suppose it makes sense that there needs to be a neighbourhood around z_0. You need more than a single point for an open subset. < 1095977185 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can read Danish, you can take a look yourself. They're online at http://math.ku.dk/noter/ The course is called 2KF. < 1095978184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe my notes try to say that it needs to analytic in the open subset, but simply having f'(z) (that is, the limit existing) at a single point doesn't yet make it analytical. < 1095978195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/al.$/./ < 1095978211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, I was probably at least half-asleep when I wrote that. < 1095978279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but our exercise question gives us a function and asks "in what subset of C the function f: z -> ... is (a) differentiable (b) analytic". < 1095978335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can easily say it's analytic nowhere in C, because it satisfies CR only at z=0, but I'm not quite sure about the differentiability thing. < 1095978379 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... It's differentiable in the points where the limit exists... I guess you'll have to do it the hard way. < 1095978485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh. I tried writing open "f(z+h)-f(z)" (with z=x+iy and h=hx+ihy) and ran out of paper width. granted, it's only a c5 envelope I'm writing on, since all proper paper is several meters right and I can't get myself off the chair < 1095978512 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the function? < 1095978577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: z=x+iy -> x^3 + 3xy^2 - 3x + i(y^3 + 3x^2y - 3y). I'm tempted to abuse the component functions u(z) and v(z) somehow here, since they are more humane. < 1095984862 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.185.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095990385 0 :calamari-!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.230.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095990951 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1095993288 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1095993326 0 :calamari-!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.111.230.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095994756 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1095995832 0 :calamari_!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.74.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095996702 0 :calamari-!Jeffry@dialup-4.240.108.74.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1095996766 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1096007953 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1096012799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096012800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096055728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho-hum. < 1096055744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, now I have the solution for my last-evening function. < 1096055752 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats :) < 1096055770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that I got it from the course assistant, I don't think it warrants congratulations. < 1096055886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official way to solve it was to look at the function "u(z) = f(z) + z^3 - 3z", which is analytic and differentiable everywhere f(z) is, and that particular function makes f(z) simplify a bit, so that it is possible for a normal human to just look at lim_h->0 (u(z+h)-u(z))/h. < 1096055911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 'u' was an unfortunate name. < 1096056018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently also if the component functions u(z) and v(z) (when f(z) = u(z)+iv(z)) are differentiable and satisfy the cauchy-riemann equations in a single point, the function is indeed complex-differentiable there. it is a sufficient condition, but we weren't quite sure if it's a necessary one, too. < 1096056066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the latter, it can be used to show that f(z) is complex-differentiable on the coordinate axes and analytic nowhere. < 1096056069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew. < 1096056115 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1096078868 0 :Molly_Parker!~Molly@63.245.86.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1096079183 0 :Molly_Parker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1096099199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096099200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096107235 0 :dbc!ttm@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1096111930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dbc! will we get some ascii art today? < 1096112481 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'll have to think of something. < 1096112949 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096112950 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O < 1096112950 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OOO O < 1096112950 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O < 1096112960 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O OOO < 1096112960 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O < 1096112960 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OOO O O < 1096112960 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O < 1096112968 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O OOO O O O < 1096112968 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O O O < 1096112968 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O OOO OOO O < 1096112968 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O O O < 1096112977 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O OOOOOOOOO O O OOO < 1096112978 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O O < 1096112978 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OOO O O O < 1096112978 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O O O O O < 1096112988 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O O O O O < 1096112988 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O < 1096112988 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O OOO < 1096112988 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O O < 1096112997 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : OOO O OOOOOOOOO O < 1096112997 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O < 1096112997 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O OOO O O < 1096112997 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O O < 1096113006 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O OOO O < 1096113006 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O O < 1096113006 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O OOO < 1096113006 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O O < 1096113015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O O < 1096113015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113023 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113023 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113023 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113023 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113023 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O < 1096113793 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"you have no chance to survive make your time." < 1096124524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice! < 1096141295 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1096141305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now he needs to anti-alias it :) < 1096169197 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@1106-wstoughton.halo.soltec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1096181243 0 :dbc!ttm@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1096182133 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1096185599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096185600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096200170 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"you have no chance to survive make your time." < 1096227971 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1096227971 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1096227988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heeh, nice quit-message. < 1096228017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ""s, so it's freenode's doing. < 1096238590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lmnt < 1096247730 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@1106-wstoughton.halo.soltec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1096264232 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1096271999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096272000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096300833 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1096300903 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1096316383 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1096316429 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1096319724 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1096319893 0 :ZeroOne!~vsaalo@vipunen.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1096339510 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096339510 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1096342197 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@1106-wstoughton.halo.soltec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1096343939 0 :lmnt!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1096352538 0 :BroBear!~BroBear@CPE-65-26-133-84.kc.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1096352935 0 :BroBear!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1096358399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096358400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096359512 0 :shapr!~user@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:237b JOIN :#esoteric < 1096368548 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1096391940 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1096392283 0 :shapr!~user@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:237b JOIN :#esoteric < 1096419099 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@1106-wstoughton.halo.soltec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1096444426 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1096444799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096444800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096497327 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going IPv4" < 1096497432 0 :shapr!~user@c-181973d5.014-109-626f6410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1096524008 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr!! < 1096531199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1096531200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1096542424 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1096567473 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1096567475 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1096567530 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1096568185 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh... some idiot placed all esoteric programming languages under Votes for Deletion in Wikipedia. :P < 1096568189 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion#Esoteric_programming_language_related < 1096568211 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There seems to be a whole bunch of so called eEsoteric programming language that found its way into wikipedia over time. Personally I think most of them are rubbish and nothing more than a (lame) joke" < 1096568785 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they're doing Google searches by their names and finding out that some language gets only 100 hits and make the conclusion that it is "not notable". :G < 1096569002 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1096569200 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're getting lots of KEEP-votes < 1096569228 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: do i need to register to vote? < 1096569249 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroOne: also, was is so that you weren't coming to this lakinlaskijaiset thing? < 1096569315 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1096569398 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: no you don't < 1096569405 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: no I'm not < 1096570479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whu? < 1096571100 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who?"? < 1096571167 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone called Chris 73 started the vote, if that's what you meant < 1096571190 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Esoteric_programming_language_related#Esoteric_programming_language_related I posted a great comment to the end of the page. yay! < 1096571392 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm talking to you! < 1096571456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, sorry. < 1096571498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was away. < 1096571784 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oknevermind < 1096584892 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is no one going to say/do anything about this? < 1096584910 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that guy wants to destroy all that's good and pure < 1096584952 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1096584956 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind if he gets it off of wikipedia < 1096584965 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't stop me writing or reading bizarre languages