06:46:31 <lament> hrm
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21:13:36 <ZeroOne> lindi-: so what do you think about the idea of a fungeoid with variable length commands? or anyone else?
21:19:46 <lindi-> ZeroOne: interesting idea, have you tried to define the commands for such a language?
21:20:20 <lindi-> (and check if it it open any interesting possibilities)
21:21:25 <ZeroOne> lindi-: no, I haven't done anything but this initial idea. ;p
21:21:41 <ZeroOne> well, I did think that it would be nice if the program flow could go diagonally
21:22:20 <ZeroOne> and the befunge-# would need to be able to jump over more than one next character
21:23:36 <ZeroOne> or if variable length commands didn't work, then three characters long, but so that vertical movement would still be treated by single columns, not by colums of three.
21:23:59 <lindi-> hmm
21:27:53 <ZeroOne> something has to be thought for orphan letters which probably will appear. maybe if a letter set doesn't form an instruction, it could be pushed to stack
21:29:39 <lindi-> perhaps, at least throwing out 'syntax error' does not feel nice
21:30:18 <ZeroOne> no, definitely not
21:30:33 <lindi-> (unless the purpose of the language is to have such a complex syntax that one actually has to take advantage of syntax errors -g)
21:31:18 <ZeroOne> :D
21:31:39 <ZeroOne> mm. that would be something. error-based language.
21:32:07 <fizzie> merh, our interweb connection is flaky.
21:32:35 <ZeroOne> *inttar web
21:32:48 <fizzie> and I think esolang (the mailing list) had some talk about how to get more possible commands for befunge.
21:33:10 <fizzie> if you want a longer jump than #, you can use funge98, it has all the "cheating" instructions one could wish for.
21:34:01 <ZeroOne> ok. can you define new functions in it, too? :)
21:35:33 <fizzie> not really, no, but that's ultra-cheaty.
21:35:33 <fizzie> the esolang discussion actually might've been about befunge and functions.
21:36:51 <fizzie> was going to write a befunge variant with "define", "call" and "return" instructions. 'define' would take an (x,y) pair that defines the start of an function and a small integer 'n' which would be the "name", 'call' would pop n and go to the function, but push the return address to stack, and 'return' would pop the return address off the stack and go back.
21:37:10 <fizzie> not sure if I wanted a separate "execution stack" or to use the normal stack for it.
21:38:03 <lindi-> separate stack would be too easy
21:38:19 <fizzie> yes, but if I use the normal stack then delivering parameters to functions will be hard.
21:38:43 <fizzie> could of course have 'define' take the number of arguments and then do some creative rearranging on 'call'.
21:39:12 <fizzie> then the function could do some funky stuff with its own return address if it wanted. 
21:40:50 <lindi-> fizzie: btw, completely offtopic, is there some way to search messages in tkknews.hut.fi?
21:41:12 <lindi-> (without having to fetch all the messages)
21:42:27 <fizzie> not sure. I don't think so, but I think the subject might've been discussed in the news when tkknews was introduced.
21:42:34 <fizzie> "you could try searching for that" :p
21:44:15 <lindi-> rright.. so no direct access to the filesystem where the messages are?
21:45:16 <ZeroOne> ask in the atk-keskus newsgroup...
21:47:28 <ZeroOne> hey lindi-... remember that stupid picture in today's Power Point show? the one where the PC was cooking something.
21:47:38 <lindi-> yeah, what about it?
21:47:56 <ZeroOne> I bet the teacher didn't know how good the "programming is like making recipes" comparison was: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/chef.html ;)
21:48:40 <lindi-> i didn't know that one, but i did recall that rms uses that comparison often too
21:49:24 <ZeroOne> what's rms?
21:50:09 <ZeroOne> or who
21:51:31 <lindi-> ZeroOne: richard stallman, stallman.org