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08:12:41 <WildHalcyon> Hey late-night esoteric people!
08:17:56 <deltab> morning here
08:19:12 <WildHalcyon> Oh, where is "here" ?
08:19:24 <deltab> UK
08:19:35 <WildHalcyon> Hmm, that makes it close to around 10 am then, right?
08:19:47 <deltab> 08:20
08:20:14 <WildHalcyon> oh, earlier than I thought
08:20:59 <WildHalcyon> So do you work with esoteric languages much deltab?
08:21:22 <deltab> work, no; play, sometimes :-)
08:22:49 <WildHalcyon> Well, I guess its hard to "work" with esoteric languages
08:23:15 <WildHalcyon> Im not entirely sure how many people have put down the ability to work with bf on their resume, but I imagine its probably less than 10
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15:04:12 <Keymaker> hello..
15:04:41 <fizzie> ehloo.
15:04:55 <Keymaker> hi
15:50:36 <Keymaker> hmm,, bye
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16:58:07 <calamari_> hi
17:02:08 <calamari_> I think I was wrong.. I can't get away with just [].. if I did that, I'd have to make regular variables return their address, which would mean to do a regular variable you'd have y[0]=x[0]+1 .. pretty lame.
17:02:51 <calamari_> y=x+1 would be like int *y=&x+1
17:03:06 <calamari_> or something like that
17:03:13 <calamari_> so I need &
17:03:22 <mtve> your assembler is very good.  it's now possible to write tcpip in bf.
17:03:41 <calamari_> mtv: lol
17:03:57 <mtve> i wasn't joking :)
17:04:30 <calamari_> you have to be ;)
17:04:39 <mtve> there was small tcpip stack in php and it shouldn't be more than 64k of bf-asm code i think.
17:05:03 <mtve> actually someone could just rewrite that code in bf-asm
17:05:16 <calamari_> interesting
17:05:33 <calamari_> I don't know much about the details of tcp/ip
17:05:40 <mtve> http://www.sics.se/~adam/phpstack/
17:06:17 <fizzie> tcp/ip is simple if you don't want to get complex about it.
17:07:59 <calamari_> that's pretty neat
17:10:15 <calamari_> one thing bfasm is still missing is bit manipulation
17:10:52 <fizzie> there's all kinds of stuff like explicit congestion notification (RFC2884), syncookies, window scaling (RFC1323), Nagle's algorithm and loads of others if you want a funky tcp/ip stack.
17:11:11 <calamari_> I need a routine that only requires constant memory regardless of the size of the cells
17:12:24 <fizzie> I wonder how long it'll take before we see the first brainf*ck web server that talks something like SLIP into the input/output streams of brainf*ck.
17:18:50 <calamari_> in order to have a web server somehow it will need to access a modem or network card.  Can standard i/o be redirected in *nix to allow that? 
17:19:25 <calamari_> I see this guy just has it going over a serial cable
17:19:33 <mtve> sure, you can do it without any network at all.
17:20:28 <mtve> i guess it's possible over loopback on any sane unix.
17:21:08 <mtve> nope, i remember there was tap interface.  there should be readme or something.
17:21:39 <mtve> tap exists on linux or *bsd, do you have any?
17:23:07 <calamari_> I have linux on another partition
17:24:51 <mtve> you can install *nix on any old 386 machine, work remotely and have a windows as a workstation.
17:26:11 <calamari_> oh yeah.. do you know of any cpu testing programs?
17:26:49 <mtve> cpu testing?   your bf-asm compiling itself? :)
17:26:51 <calamari_> I have a system that crashes out when trying to load windows or linux.. works fine in dos
17:27:06 <calamari_> not sure if it's something with protected mode or what
17:27:23 <calamari_> ran a memory testing program and it found no problems
17:27:39 <mtve> does it hang or does it print something before death?
17:28:09 <calamari_> in the windows installer it gave various error messages
17:28:33 <mtve> most probably it
17:28:40 <calamari_> linux would give some kind of error (with the register dump, etc)
17:28:41 <mtve> 's broken
17:29:06 <calamari_> pretty weird that dos works, though
17:29:10 <calamari_> anyhow
17:29:14 <mtve> or totally incompatible.  indeed it's unusable.
17:29:31 <calamari_> there are network drivers for dos
17:29:34 <calamari_> :)
17:30:39 <lament> hi
17:30:44 <calamari_> hi lament
17:31:50 <mtve> that stuff from Adam Dunkels works just like a charm in *nix and easy to debug.  in dos and windows you will need to do something to terminate such a strange networking.
17:38:06 <mtve> maybe in win31 it would be easy with trumpet networking and a null-modem between two com-ports.
17:39:09 <calamari_> hmm, I didn't try installing win3.1.. that's a great idea
17:40:39 <mtve> sorry for distracting you from bf-c :)   in win3.1 there was three mode afair, and it's possible to avoid protected mode with some config key.
17:40:58 <fizzie> or a command-line flag.
17:41:06 <fizzie> to disable the "386 Enhanced" mode.
17:41:13 <calamari_> are you sure about 3.1?  I remember 3.0 could do it
17:41:20 <fizzie> I think 3.1 too.
17:41:56 <fizzie> because I have a feeling I ran 3.1 on a 386sx/16 with only 1M of memory, and the 386-enhanced mode needs at least 2M to work, so it ran on the non-enhanced mode by default.
17:42:03 <fizzie> of course it might've been 3.0 too.
17:42:33 <fizzie> can't run win32s on it in that mode, though.
17:43:22 <fizzie> and I think the backported ie5+ms-ppp/slip-dialer needs win32s. trumpet could work.
17:43:55 <mtve> trumper with netscape 1.0 is more than needed :)
17:43:55 <calamari_> I think I have trumpet around here somewhere on an old isp cd
17:44:20 <fizzie> mine was on an isp floppy, and I'd be surprised if it's not un-broken still.
17:45:38 <mtve> tcpman.exe 119K, netscape.exe 1.2M :)
17:46:10 <fizzie> I'm not sure if I had netscape during my win3.11 times.
17:46:24 <fizzie> there was a version of mosaic on the floppy.
17:47:00 <calamari_> hmm.. I think I discovered the problem
17:47:16 <calamari_> there is a bad cpu fan
17:47:30 <calamari_> or at least that's the current problem
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18:51:18 <calamari_> cpu fan changed.. trying knoppix
18:54:34 <calamari_> cool
18:54:41 <calamari_> (pun intended)
18:55:17 <mtve> :)
18:57:00 <calamari_> wow.. it's still booting.. I don't think knoppix was designed for a 450mhz cpu
18:57:26 <mtve> 450MHz is quite a few
18:58:08 <calamari_> ahhh, kde finally coming up
18:58:31 <calamari_> hmm.. actually not 450.. 333 .. remembered that wrong
18:59:05 <fizzie> yay, my email relay thingie works again. now to update some MX records.
19:09:09 <calamari_> bbl
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