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What? 23:04:29 The moo moo thing. 23:04:34 oh 23:04:35 yes 23:04:42 i planned it carefully 23:04:56 i didn't expect you'd guess it was me :( 23:05:45 Oh... 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04:56:23 no 04:56:50 this channel is for dead people only 04:56:55 just checking 04:57:01 don't worry 04:57:16 if anybody alive comes in, he'll be banned 04:57:31 phew I'm safe 05:00:53 how do you test for turing-completeness in a programming language? aside from making a universal turing machine in the language 05:01:43 writing an interpreter for some other language which was already proven to be turing-complete 05:01:54 brainfuck is often easy to write an interpreter for 05:02:25 or the universal register machine, which was used to prove turing-completeness of brainfuck itself 05:02:53 well, brainfuck is a UTM itself, essentially, isn't it? 05:03:24 um 05:03:30 no? 05:03:45 what do you mean, "is a UTM"? 05:04:05 (whatever you mean, it isn't) 05:04:29 well, a universal turing machine is a subset of brainfuck, isn't it? 05:04:32 or something like that 05:04:32 no. 05:04:34 no. 05:04:44 because I thought that brainfuck was just meant to emulate a turing machine 05:04:47 no. 05:05:07 oh? 05:05:34 yeah. 05:06:34 what other functions does a turing machine have, apart from the bf ones? 05:06:54 it's just completely different. 05:07:17 TMs have a bunch of states. 05:07:32 depending on the state, certain operations are performed. 05:07:55 Then the machine goes into a new state depending on the old state and on what symbol the reading head is looking at. 05:08:02 Brainfuck is nothing like that. 05:08:40 oh, ok 05:09:29 TM is generally harder to implement in a given programming language than Brainfuck 05:09:57 the difference between a UTM and a TM is that a UTM emulates a TM, am I right? 05:10:13 the whole terminology is extremely fucked up. 05:10:27 a TM is what we now would call a program. 05:10:35 ok 05:10:49 UTM is a program that can emulate the behaviour of any other TM 05:10:55 so that's just like a table of states, etc. 05:11:03 i.e. basically an interpreter for the (unspecified) language in which TMs are written 05:11:30 note that saying "a program for the Turing Machine" is incorrect 05:11:44 which sucks! but oh well 05:12:06 so wait, if I write a non-universal turing machine in a language, does it still make it turing-complete? 05:12:18 or prove that a program is equivalent to a turing machine? 05:12:56 no. 05:13:06 for example you can have a turing machine for adding two numbers together. 05:13:20 and you can write that in your programming language. 05:13:23 that proves nothing. 05:13:51 ah, ok, but if you write the program in such a way that it acts like a turing machine 05:14:07 or do you actually have to write a utm 05:14:26 (or something that is a superset/equivalent of a utm) 05:14:53 equivalent to UTM 05:15:11 so, an interpreter which can interpret programs which specify turing machines 05:15:24 yes 05:16:24 one of the machines it can act as, then, is the UTM itself. 05:16:44 bah! turing machines are boring 05:16:59 well, I'm trying to prove turing-completeness for an esoteric language 05:17:24 I'm pretty sure it is, but I want proof 05:18:41 actually implementing a "turing machine intepreter" is generally harder than other possible ways 05:19:02 depending on the language, either Brainfuck or SKI calculus will be easy to implement 05:19:24 SKI Calculus 05:19:28 * Toreun goes to look that up 05:19:48 combinatory logic. 05:20:21 ok 05:20:55 it looks like brainfuck would be easier to implement because I don't really wanna think enough to implement this... 05:25:11 well, I'm off to bed 05:26:07 -!- Toreun has quit. 07:22:01 somebody actually came to #esoteric and asked questions. 07:22:05 First time ever. 07:58:30 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:48 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection reset by peer). 08:09:43 -!- cmeme has joined. 08:18:18 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:19:51 -!- cmeme has joined. 08:20:27 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:23:52 -!- cmeme has joined. 15:22:05 -!- Toreun has joined. 15:37:06 -!- Toreun has quit. 16:18:31 -!- Toreun has joined. 16:19:42 -!- Toreun has quit (Client Quit). 16:26:27 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection reset by peer). 16:34:13 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:00:50 -!- lament has joined. 20:03:25 -!- Toreun has joined. 20:33:55 Any luck proving TC for your language, Toreun? :) 20:48:02 almost 20:48:06 I'm working on a BF interpreter 20:48:13 I've got tape operations down pretty well 20:48:33 the actual interpretation is the hard part though 20:48:52 what's your language like? 20:48:59 two dimensional, using a stack and a queue 20:49:50 with source editing possibilities 20:49:59 like befunge with an extra queue? 20:50:14 sorta, yeah 20:50:21 random stuff: I almost wrote a sed-based brainf*ck interpreter, but then I decided writing a befunge one would be more interesting. managed to implement [0-9], @ and +, then got bored. 20:50:37 I wanted it to have the functionality of funge 98, without such a big mess 20:50:54 (writing things in sed is _tedious_.) 20:51:10 well, it's better than malbolge :) 20:51:24 Toreun: brainfuck is probably not the easiest way to prove turing-completeness of that 20:51:28 marginally, yes. but it doesn't have numbers. 20:51:55 Toreun: first, you could write a translator from befunge to your language; that would prove it 20:52:10 well, it's not that similiar 20:52:21 Toreun: second, you could implement something like the game of life - probably easy with a 2d field and source editing 20:52:27 and game of life is TC 20:52:43 that's a good idea 20:52:51 but source editing isn't that easy 20:53:23 well, you judge 20:53:41 because when you want to edit the source, to get to the byte you want to edit, the editing pointer follows the normal execution path 20:53:43 if that makes any sense 20:55:00 (and sed's _slow_. it takes about 6.22 seconds to calculate the 20th fibonacci number using my recursive sed thing. sorry if I seem obsessed with sed. the 'language' haunts my nightmares.) 20:55:21 I haven't look at sed much to be cursed by it like that 20:55:44 though I woke up last night with an algorithm for reversing the queue in my language 20:58:38 er, with a stack and a queue, wouldn't the "obvious" way to do that be to stack everything from the queue to the stack, and then enqueue them back in the queue? (hee, that sounds fun. stack to the stack and enqueue in a queue.) 20:59:27 well, yeah 20:59:38 but I also have temporary memory locations 20:59:57 whoa, you seem to have everything. 20:59:58 and I have to deal with null bytes and stuff, and make sure I preserve the contents of all the other mem locations 21:00:19 your language appears to be too easy :) 21:00:23 it is quite easy 21:00:35 but I didn't design it to be hard 21:00:41 I designed it to be featureful 21:00:59 it supports recursive functions! 21:01:07 programming should be hard, otherwise anyone could do it. :p 21:01:28 featureful esoteric languages are kind of boring 21:01:43 how do you define functions in your 2d language? there was that talk re functions-in-befunge on esolang a while ago. 21:01:56 "my language can do this, and this, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that" 21:01:59 "it's called Java" 21:02:04 lol 21:02:13 esoteric languages should be minimal! 21:02:22 you don't really define functions, you define a character to do something 21:02:57 ah. please tell me you don't have 'fingerprints' for extensions too. 21:03:11 fingerprints? 21:03:22 like funge98 '(' and ')' instructions? 21:03:31 nope 21:04:34 phew. 21:04:43 I designed it specifically so it /wouldn't/ be the mess that funge98 was, but was as functional 21:06:01 yes, it is probably too easy to use 21:06:23 as far as esolangs go, at least 21:06:48 oh well, they can't all be malbolges. 21:08:47 yeah 21:13:14 at times like this, I am kinda regretting that it is this complicated... I am still not sure how I should store the instructions for brainfuck 21:13:49 I'm probably gonna end up just using source-editing, so I can have the stack for other things 21:14:08 instead of writing an interpreter 21:14:17 perhaps writing a compiler from brainfuck to your language would be easier? 21:14:27 (it doesn't matter what you write the compiler itself in) 21:16:49 well, there are no specified loops in my language, it's just changing the direction four times 21:17:48 that shouldn't be too hard though 21:18:04 though I liked the idea of having an interpreter interpret an interpreter 21:18:05 -!- hcf has joined. 21:18:24 infinite-sized plane? 21:18:29 hi hcf! 21:18:33 hi lament 21:18:37 well, it's defined by the source originally 21:18:44 these links may interest you 21:18:45 http://wiw.org/~ams/projects/itch.html http://sed.sourceforge.net/local/scripts/turing.sed http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TuringComplete http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LittleLanguage http://www2.lns.mit.edu/~dsw/turing/turing.html http://www.nmia.com/~soki/turing/ http://www.unidex.com/turing/ http://www.cus.org.uk/~flagg/tacpprm/graffle/ 21:19:02 eek! I see 'sed' there. 21:19:13 hcf: just how much free time do you have? :) 21:21:03 fizzie: ... but you could just add whitespace on the sides of the source to make it bigger 21:21:15 mm'k. 21:21:31 -!- hcf has left (?). 21:21:41 I don't have an end execution instruction, it stops when it reaches the end of the source 21:22:41 are arbitrary jumps possible? 21:23:38 whattaya mean? like goto? 21:24:14 like that can't-remember-the-letter instruction in funge98 which pops the new delta vector from the stack. 21:24:28 I'm not sure what you mean 21:24:58 well, can you jump from (a, b) to (c, d) without arranging an empty path between them. 21:25:21 if you make two comment lines 21:25:50 comments vertically are not necessarily comments horizontally 21:25:58 so you could do that, and simulate an empty path 21:26:01 ah, a bit like funge98 ;. 21:26:11 (or was it ';'?) 21:26:26 I don't remember 21:36:22 hmm, I can't seem to find a good specification of funge-98 21:38:08 hm. the catseye page doesn't seem too alive. 21:38:18 yeah it's been down for quite awhile 21:38:28 and google doesn't even have a cache anymore 21:39:06 thanks to http://www.archive.org/ 21:39:10 I'm able to find it 21:41:30 but... it seems to be slow, and the esoteric page isn't archived 21:44:18 but, yeah, comments in my lang are exactly like ; in funge98 21:44:20 I just checked 21:54:55 -!- hcf has joined. 21:54:59 http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/funge98-2003.0326/ 21:55:54 catseye changed their url? 21:56:03 it's not all there 21:56:18 dunno if it's just a partial mirror or what 21:56:26 well, the index isn't there 21:57:25 what is this "hcf" thing? some kind of fairy godmother? someone needs a funge98 spec and then it joins out of the blue and gives an url. hm, lessee. "I lack a nice laptop." hmm? nothing happens... 22:00:17 heh 22:00:28 fairy url service not fairy hardware service 22:00:38 aw. :( 22:00:51 hmm... I need a URL that gives me free hardware! 22:00:57 a URL for a website** 22:00:59 damnit 22:02:25 how about http://www.openhardware.net it's open as in free 22:02:44 damn! loophole! 22:03:50 "where was that website where they sent people apple powerbooks for free (without any form of payment, that is) when you entered your name and address?" 22:04:37 there was a site that got you a free Lindows PC if you lived in CA 22:04:38 on Earth 22:04:45 (california, not canadia) 22:05:00 wrong continent. 22:07:26 -!- hcf has left (?). 2004-02-09: 03:36:10 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:35:38 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 21:51:30 -!- lament has joined. 23:23:30 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 2004-02-10: 01:33:45 -!- lament has joined. 03:11:05 -!- Toreun has joined. 05:41:39 -!- Toreun has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:42:08 -!- Toreun has joined. 06:44:42 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 17:31:30 -!- Toreun has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:31:30 -!- mtve has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:31:30 -!- cmeme has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:31:31 -!- asdasd_ has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:31:31 -!- Taaus has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:32:23 -!- Toreun has joined. 17:32:23 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:32:23 -!- mtve has joined. 17:32:23 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 17:32:23 -!- Taaus has joined. 17:33:59 -!- Toreun has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:33:59 -!- mtve has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:34:00 -!- cmeme has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:34:01 -!- asdasd_ has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:34:01 -!- Taaus has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:34:41 -!- Toreun has joined. 17:34:41 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:34:41 -!- mtve has joined. 17:34:41 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 17:34:41 -!- Taaus has joined. 20:10:43 -!- Toreun has quit. 20:10:49 -!- Toreun has joined. 22:05:19 -!- lament has joined. 22:52:34 I've done it. 22:52:58 my esolang is turing complete 22:53:03 yay 23:10:07 next you need formal proof of correctness for your interpreter. 23:11:56 for which interpreter? 23:12:09 my brainfuck interpreter or my esolang interpreter? 23:14:56 well, optimally 'both'. first one to confirm the turing-completeness and the second one to make sure you have something to reliably run it on. 23:16:28 well, the first thing I should do is convert my esolang interpreter to some sort of compiled language 23:17:40 what's it written now in? 23:17:46 PHP 23:18:05 I would've done it in C but I like having automatic typecasting 23:18:18 gasp 23:18:19 php 23:18:21 ah. how peculiar. I haven't ever written non-web-related php. 23:18:26 I always do 23:18:33 actually I think my php doesn't have the cli module compiled in. 23:18:39 it's such an easy language to use 23:18:46 doesn't it come with it? 23:18:56 yes, but it's not compiled in. 23:19:04 felt it was unnecessary. 23:19:11 i thought php sucked. 23:19:45 I just think it's a bit boring language. it's not very special in any way. 23:19:57 yeah 23:20:12 fizzie: i thought it sucked in that it was designed for doing things that shouldn't be done 23:20:21 shouldn't be done? 23:20:22 (i.e. embedding code in html pages) 23:20:34 well, but you don't need to do that. 23:20:41 you think code shouldn't be embedded into html? 23:20:42 fizzie: that's what it was designed for. 23:20:50 Toreun: of course it shouldn't. 23:21:02 lament: why not? 23:21:40 Toreun: because the logic of an application is normally independent from its appearance 23:21:49 oh, that's what you mean 23:23:33 but I don't think people would guess the language was designed to be embedded in html pages, based on only the language. 23:24:05 if you don't count the "" parts as the language. 23:24:43 * lament shrugs 23:24:55 as far as i know, the whole design philosophy is based on that. 23:25:00 it's just a general purpose language, in my opinion... just for quick program development 23:25:05 i'm sure the decisions made were extremely far-reaching 23:25:23 and permeate the whole language 23:25:26 I don't see much "design philosophy" in php. 23:25:36 mind you, i don't know php, so i can't give concrete examples 23:25:40 fizzie: that's part of it :) 23:26:11 apart from the error outputting, which is in HTML, and the HTML/XML built in functions, it's not really /made for/ web development 23:27:05 generally I just think php is boring. it does the normal imperative programming basics. oh, there's something I dislike: the "object system", if it can be called that. 23:27:32 well, it is very primitive 23:27:48 verily, and quite obviously added as an afterthought. 23:27:55 but PHP 5 attempts to fix that 23:28:43 not successfully, of course 23:28:47 on the positive side, the few times I've written php the code hasn't turned out to look like line noise, which is what happens when I try perl. 23:29:19 in general, I find languages with a <=> operator are scary 23:29:53 for some reason with perl there's the subconscious urge to constantly do stuff like take advantage of the "$_" default-variable, and write lots of regexps. 23:30:22 I'm getting into regexp habits, even in PHP 23:30:35 but in php those are confined inside function calls. 23:30:38 that's also part of the design philosophy. 23:30:52 in perl the regexen are free and out there, ready to bite the programmer. 23:31:16 Toreun: of course php is made for web development 23:31:28 well, originally 23:31:29 "personal home page" means just that 23:32:18 official explanation goes that PHP is a recursive acronym for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor", actually. 23:32:25 web-development-related, still. 23:32:40 fizzie: the original name was the one i mentioned 23:32:54 but yeah, "hypertext preprocessor" isn't much better :) 23:33:12 the language really isn't anything special, so it isn't specialized for any one task 23:33:17 neither the hypertext nor the preprocessor part. 23:33:17 I wouldn't know, when I first heard about php it was 3.x already. 23:33:28 Toreun: why is it called "hypertext preprocessor" then? 23:33:51 I mean it's more general purpose 23:33:54 Toreun: are you sure it's not specialized for preprocessing hypertext? :) 23:34:07 it is meant to be, it's not very good at being specialized though 23:34:15 i see :| 23:34:22 well, it's trying to grow out of that. 23:34:33 so the only reason it's not specialized is because it tries to be specialized, and fails? 23:34:36 a great language, indeed. 23:34:55 well, it is just a general language that's pretty easy to use 23:35:17 actually I think it was designed originally to be specialized, and then they've attempted to revise/retrofit the language to be more general-purpose. 23:35:38 (just a guess, I haven't seen 1.x or 2.x versions.) 23:35:52 originally it was called phtml, wasn't it? 23:36:22 "PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML" 23:36:27 from the php site. 23:36:41 that's just advertisement 23:36:58 also: " PHP is an HTML-embedded scripting language. Much of its syntax is borrowed from C, Java and Perl with a couple of unique PHP-specific features thrown in. The goal of the language is to allow web developers to write dynamically generated pages quickly." 23:37:02 from the faq. 23:37:10 Toreun: um. 23:37:29 considering that I use sed for general-purpose-stuff, I don't think I can judge people who use php. 23:38:16 really, I use whatever language that I'm most comfortable with at a given time for quick programs 23:38:48 they're definitely not trying to hide the web-development-aspect. also from the faq, "The biggest advantage of PHP over Perl is that PHP was designed for scripting for the web where Perl was designed to do a lot more and can because of this get very complicated." 23:39:18 hm 23:39:30 on the other hand, javascript was designed solely for client-side web page scripting 23:39:34 but it's a fairly nice language 23:39:54 I don't particularly like javascript 23:40:14 and sed was decided for stream editing ascii text, but it's a.. fairly.. nice.. oh, who am I kidding? it's horrid! 23:40:25 fizzie: :))) 23:40:33 fizzie: try the 12 step program 23:40:40 :-þ 23:40:49 mooz wrote a rather nice javascript befunge interpreter thing. 23:41:24 the interpreter functions are written in a "pseudocode-like notation", so to say, so the interpreter can be changed on-the-fly. 23:41:46 (the code it uses to execute befunge is in a textfield on the page containing the interpreter code.) 23:41:53 javascript has a very cute object system 23:42:13 and a nice, small core 23:42:28 (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/jsbef/index.html if someone's interested) 23:44:30 that's a pretty complex interpreter 23:44:34 http://uk.php.net/history 23:45:34 originally 'Personal Home Page Tools' 23:45:51 yes, but you can easily add befunge commands by simply editing the stuff in the textfield. 23:46:15 the most i did in javascript was a thue interpreter. 23:46:24 I don't think PHP is all that good for the sort of web development it's used for nowadays 23:46:29 hmm... I wonder if my lang is similar enough to befunge to use this interpreter 23:47:31 http://lament.hypermart.net/thue.html 23:48:16 I'm getting errors, lament 23:48:51 Toreun: you are also very informative 23:49:05 I'll try it on moz, and see if it works 23:49:13 but the animate button returned "Object Expected" 23:49:23 line 127 to be specific 23:49:33 i don't think it works at all 23:49:43 wonder if that jakarta tapestry thing is nice. 23:49:59 yeah, it isn't implemented 23:50:04 our "data structures" course exercise management system uses it. 23:50:13 probably becasue i didn't find how to do timers 23:51:05 javascript documentation is a bit messy. the core language has a nice, readable spec, but the objects provided by the browsers are less documented. outdated netscape docs turned out to be the best references, iirc. 23:51:30 this when I last tried to write something in javascript. 23:52:11 yeah, actually getting your program to output something is the most painful part 23:52:11 I've never really tried to write anything useful in javascript 23:52:50 * lament wonders if either the befunge or the thue interpreters qualify as useful 23:52:51 hm. that 'tapestry' framework sounds like a good idea, but it's java. java makes me feel queasy. 23:53:10 I can't stand java 23:53:13 it's too roundabout 23:53:17 well, I haven't even written a befunge interpreter. (in javascript, I mean.) poor me. 23:57:08 wow this befunge interpreter is really nice 2004-02-11: 00:06:20 -!- mooz- has joined. 00:09:03 does any documentation/implementations/stuff for your befunge-like language exist in the interweb, btw? 00:09:20 not yet, no 00:09:33 but if you want, a rough version can in about thirty seconds 00:10:01 why not. I just explained it to mooz in a query, but realized I don't really know what it's like. :p 00:12:24 http://www.toreun.org/esolang.txt 00:12:56 oh wait, I think that has an error 00:13:19 ok, fixed it 00:14:35 btw, what languages do we have befunge interpreters in? I know of implementations in C, javascript, algol (algol60?), fortran (two, actually) and forth, plus two unfinished ones (sed, 6502-assembler-for-8bit-nes-nintendo). any others? 00:15:11 toreun; there's no command for a>b? 00:15:20 oh, apparently I've written a semi-working (no 'g' or 'p') interpreter in 31 lines of haskell. 00:15:29 nope 00:15:33 python 00:15:46 mooz-: it's not necessary 00:15:49 befunge 00:15:57 fizzie; z80 asm... 00:16:05 inform 00:16:19 mooz; good point. 00:16:20 a note, the d command does integer division 00:16:55 I made a multitasking befunge befunge interpreter, but it doesn't keep the processes' stacks separate yet, making it quite useless 00:17:04 so there's an easy way to do > and < 00:17:35 ah right 00:18:11 my glfunge98 knows how to multithread with separate stacks (using the funge98 multithreading instructions) but it's otherwise ultra-mega-sucky. 00:18:38 toreun; except that negative numbers require extra code 00:18:44 and zero, obviously 00:18:56 true 00:21:00 it's not like it's an all that complex algorithm, though 00:21:13 no, but it wastes space :) 00:21:51 so, am I reading the description right that / and \ change the directions like mirrors would do to a beam of light? 00:21:57 yeah 00:22:08 heh, nice. 00:22:50 thanks 00:24:10 that 'mouse' approach to playfield manipulation is quite interesting idea too. 00:24:37 it's hard to use well 00:24:43 it's there to make strings easier 00:25:19 mm. 00:27:37 hmm, I don't suppose I've clarified memory locations well in that text file 00:27:50 the buffer acts like a queue, but when you get data from it, the elements are concatenated 00:27:56 and the void is a stack with a max size of two 00:33:28 heh, it is esoteric at least. 00:33:50 yes, that it is 00:41:15 whattaya think of it, anyway? 00:43:14 well, I'd have to try use it before I could form a real opinion, and that's a project for another day. but I withdraw my complaints about the "oh-pfoo-too-easy" problem. 00:43:36 thanks 00:45:26 I'll upload the interpreter when I get a chance 01:54:17 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:55:30 -!- lament has joined. 02:25:19 grr! my brainfuck interp has a really strange error! 02:27:01 my brain has the error "sleep underflow", it's 04:30 localtime and there's a maths lecture "tomorrow" at 08:00, so "g'night". 02:27:40 g'night (or morning, in your case) 03:16:26 -!- Toreun1 has joined. 03:16:27 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:16:43 -!- Toreun1 has left (?). 03:17:20 -!- Toreun has joined. 07:37:37 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 18:51:51 fizzie: there are also befunge interpreters on perl, eta (esoteric) and befunge itself. 18:53:36 I think lament mentioned befunge. 18:54:22 ah yep. 20:24:44 -!- lament has joined. 20:24:46 heil! 20:50:01 -!- lament has quit ("leaving"). 21:13:08 -!- calamari_ has joined. 21:13:17 hi 21:14:08 -!- irc.freenode.net has set topic: Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Logs of previous discussion are available at http://www.tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 21:14:31 oops, I guess that's not the topic, is it? :) 21:16:46 -!- irc.freenode.net has set topic: Celebrate Mungday!. 21:28:51 I've been trying to understand lambda calculus, but it gets very confusing for me very quickly. Is it related to boolean algebra at all, or can it be expressed in those terms? 21:33:03 hello everyone 21:33:20 sorry calamari, I understand lambda calc as little as you... 21:36:38 It almost seems like it is just a bunch of functions where all the nice things are taken out like parenthesis and commas 21:37:02 well, from what I understand of it, it's where EVERYTHING is a function 21:37:07 But then it says it can use more and more memory as you go, and that seems weird 21:37:42 I dunno, my brain just doesn't like to think like that 21:38:33 hehe 22:57:34 well, for all those interested, http://www.toreun.org/eso.zip is the interpreter for my lang, and http://www.toreun.org/brainfuck is the directory with the source that proves its turing-completeness 2004-02-12: 00:19:31 -!- lament has joined. 00:31:25 -!- calamari_ has quit ("Leaving"). 00:49:54 lament: my language interpreter and bf interpreter are up 00:50:46 yay 00:51:06 http://www.toreun.org/eso.zip that's the interpreter and http://www.toreun.org/brainfuck 00:51:34 is the language called eso? 00:51:39 nah 00:51:52 that's just the directory it's been in in my homedir 00:52:08 what is it called. 00:52:18 unless I can find some sort of recursive acronym or something that would make sense, I wouldn't want something so unoriginal 00:52:21 I haven't named it yet 00:53:32 can't think of anything that good 01:00:11 since when are the names of esoteric languages supposed to make sense? :)| 01:00:28 good point 01:02:48 well, still, I want a clever name or something 01:04:45 "a clever name" sounds good :) 01:05:23 too long... 01:08:41 "clever"? 01:08:53 clover 01:09:18 "pyrire"? 01:09:21 (rot13) 01:09:27 cl½ver? 01:09:44 weird letters are good. 01:09:47 hold on... pyrire... is that a latin word? 01:09:59 it sounds almost french 01:10:16 well, -ire is a latin ending 01:10:22 and pyr- is a suffix meaning fire 01:10:54 what's that weird letter supposed to be? it's a 1/2 symbol, I dunno if that's right 01:11:06 it's the "oe" letter. 01:11:10 all the google matches are either "pyrite" typos, or rot13 01:11:21 hmm 01:11:39 I'll check my latin dictionary 01:13:05 nope 01:17:37 eso stranges o-something? 01:17:45 (for a recursive acronym) 01:18:07 ESO was the name for the OS that never became 01:18:17 it was? 01:18:29 well there were plans on the mailing list 01:18:42 'the' os that never became? 01:18:53 I've made two kernels that never became 01:18:59 heh 01:19:28 I've written the textmode stuff for a movie OS :P 01:19:35 a movie os? 01:19:54 the kind that's in movies 01:20:11 the bootup looks like the start of the snes game megaman X, for instance 01:20:11 oh 01:20:46 I always figured those OSs were post-rendered videos... 01:20:53 they were 01:21:08 but they had some crazy ideas that would be nice to combine :) 01:21:26 mostly involving hacking 01:21:49 was this in an actual movie? 01:22:15 for example the gui absolutely must have a mode with a black bg and a dark green grid, then the widgets in bright green outlines and a _lot_ of hexadecimal mess 01:22:30 mooz-: that's Linux. 01:23:06 it's the unix system! 01:23:09 have a black background with dark green grid 01:23:11 the gui startup should be something as stupid in the movie hackers 01:23:17 run a transparent terminal on top of that 01:23:21 I thought about a rotating and wobbling smiley 01:23:24 hey! 01:23:28 whole screen-sized 01:23:32 I have an indy with irix-6.5.21 here. 01:23:32 show hex stuff in the transparent terminal... 01:23:39 I could run the jurassic park filemanager thingie. 01:23:46 mheh 01:24:14 iirc it was in freeware.sgi.com. 01:24:19 that's a classic. 01:24:56 does anyone happen to remember the name? 01:25:48 aw, "FSN only worked on IRIX versions 5.3 and below" 01:25:52 then I drew a gui that looks even more toy-like than windows XP 01:25:57 quux.befunge.org/leetos.gif 01:26:30 says the http://www.sgi.com/fun/freeware/3d_navigator.html 01:27:03 feh, *.befunge.org-redirects don't work from here. 01:27:27 and I think I've seen that pic. :p 01:28:06 but I drew it before aqua had come around, and it already has those silly color-coded buttons... only they're not round 01:28:26 I can't stand those color coded buttons that aqua has 01:28:37 mooz-: have you seen Squeak? 01:28:41 nno 01:28:54 i'm afraid it has you beat 01:29:01 oh dear 01:29:16 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/uploads/683/squeak34-1600x1200.1.png 01:29:31 the entire system is written in itself (it's a smalltalk) 01:29:46 that's a screenshot? 01:29:49 yes 01:29:53 hnng 01:29:54 eww 01:30:04 i love that window at an angle 01:30:13 in squeak, you can rotate anything 01:30:23 but the windows aren't as playground-looking as mine 01:30:23 it's one of the basic methods of objects you can display on screen 01:30:26 that, and resize 01:30:30 I'd be afraid that something that colorful would bring upon epilepsy 01:30:46 well, it's insanely customizable 01:30:51 oh, ok 01:30:52 note that all windows have different decorations 01:31:03 it's done there just to show off obviously 01:31:15 well, I must be going 01:31:18 I was planning to make the system incredibly intuitive, like how the titlebar looks separate from the window... you could shake it around to loosen the window to windowshade it :P 01:31:35 I've got a report on the Canterbury Tales to write, due yesterday... bye 01:32:17 another screenshot of squeak 01:32:18 http://www.phaidros.com/DIGITALIS/images/sqk00050.gif 01:32:39 and another one 01:32:41 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2469 01:32:52 ones, rather :) 02:43:42 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:01:14 -!- asdasd_ has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:01:14 -!- Taaus has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:03:22 -!- Toreun has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:03:22 -!- mtve has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:03:22 -!- cmeme has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:04:51 -!- cmeme has joined. 05:05:25 -!- Toreun has joined. 05:05:25 -!- mtve has joined. 05:05:31 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 05:06:17 -!- Taaus has joined. 05:12:22 -!- Taaus has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:12:23 -!- asdasd_ has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:13:07 -!- Taaus has joined. 05:13:07 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 05:13:53 -!- mtve has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:13:53 -!- Toreun has quit (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 05:14:13 -!- Toreun has joined. 05:14:13 -!- mtve has joined. 06:57:35 -!- lament has joined. 07:15:34 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 12:53:39 -!- Toreun has left (?). 20:03:01 -!- lament has joined. 21:22:26 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:30:01 -!- lament has joined. 21:32:55 -!- lament has left (?). 22:07:05 -!- lament has joined. 22:25:01 -!- Toreun has joined. 2004-02-13: 00:20:53 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 00:33:27 -!- calamari_ has joined. 00:33:28 hi 00:37:56 using c I could make a loop executing g() with void f() { g(); f() }, however, eventually the stack would overflow. I wonder if there's a way to avoid that without using "if" "while", "for", etc. 00:48:56 well, you would need a condition to test to use if/while/for 00:52:48 yeah.. I can't see a way around it 00:53:26 why not ditch C and use http://www.toreun.org/eso.zip! *g* 00:54:49 tereun: oh yeah I forgot to look at that last night ;) 00:54:57 do you have a webpage about it? 00:55:01 not yet 00:55:13 I'm gonna add it to my projects page on toreun.org, but I haven't done so yet 00:55:22 the specs are http://www.toreun.org/esolang.txt 00:55:54 and a sample (rather large) program is at http://www.toreun.org/brainfuck (it's the brainfuck interpreter for it) 00:58:27 interesting.. on first glance it looks like a mix between numberix and befunge 00:58:50 the idea for it was based off of befunge 00:58:53 but befunge is a mess 00:59:12 and that's not? lol 00:59:28 of course not! (because I can easily understand it) 00:59:36 eso. languages are supposed to be messy.. part of the fun ;) 00:59:56 I wanted this to look pretty cool without it being impossible to program in 01:01:51 now I just need a name 01:01:59 I'm thinking 'quack' because it has a queue and a stack 01:02:36 but that's taken 01:02:48 oh well 01:02:56 queer? 01:03:06 or quest, hehe 01:03:16 how'd ya get those? 01:03:50 or...!! 01:04:22 just bang the keyboard for a minute and the last thing you type is the name.. then make it into an acronym 01:04:46 well I'm trying to make 'eso' into an acronym, so I don't have to rename everything 01:05:05 eso is confusing, because that's the esoteric operating system project 01:05:17 oh yeah, forgot 01:05:25 http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX/current/0401.0.html quest it seems is taken too 01:05:46 here you go then: jresbv 01:06:15 jolly really easy silly befunge variant? :) 01:06:37 it's not really easy, and it's hardly a befunge variant 01:06:58 lighten up or something, that was a joke :P 01:07:32 sorry, my sense of humor is gone with my homework I'm pretending I'm doing 01:07:40 I know that feeling 01:07:52 are you in hs or college ? 01:07:56 high school 01:08:10 grr one year left and then instead of homework I get papers to write! 01:08:52 I haven't written any major papers in college so far except for in my english classes.. pretty weird 01:09:03 what year are you? 01:09:11 Junior 01:09:15 hm, that is weird 01:09:27 everyone of my friends has had papers out the wazoo 01:09:28 I'm still at the community college tho.. 01:09:32 oh 01:09:44 There are a lot of cs classes that transfer 01:09:55 (I've already done all the asm, c, java, etc) 01:10:03 data structures 01:10:13 I heard that CS programs in college start out really easy... 01:10:47 like, easy enough to warrant not needing to attend for the first semester 01:11:24 well... once I get to the university, there are only 8 classes I need to take. Only a few are required.. the rest are pretty much like pick 1 of 3 01:11:41 not bad 01:12:14 I'm prolly just gonna go straight to a university and do a computer engineering or comp sci program 01:12:35 I chose the ones that would be interesting to me.. esp. the areas I felt weakest in. 01:12:57 wow going to college to learn!? 01:13:07 if I'm gonna be paying the big bucks, you'd better believe it 01:15:57 ahh lets see here: oo prog, discrete structures, distributed programming, sys. programming, software eng., grammars, compilers (okay I so I don't need this one that bad), database design, 01:17:03 there are some really weird ones tho "computer graphics"? Maybe for game programming? Seems useless 01:17:19 not taking it obviously ;) 01:20:06 heh 01:21:06 I forget what university it is, but they offer a major in game development 01:21:17 or maybe its a school devoted to game design? 01:49:06 -!- docelic has joined. 01:49:20 -!- docelic has left (?). 01:52:07 bbl 01:52:07 -!- calamari_ has quit ("Leaving"). 02:25:55 -!- lament has joined. 04:14:25 -!- lament has changed nick to lameAFK. 05:13:07 -!- lameAFK has changed nick to lament. 07:41:05 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:55:44 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:14:57 -!- cmeme has joined. 22:10:15 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-14: 04:28:41 -!- Toreun-error has joined. 04:28:41 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:28:45 -!- Toreun-error has left (?). 04:29:05 -!- Toreun has joined. 07:53:48 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 2004-02-15: 00:15:28 -!- cmeme has quit (Connection timed out). 00:32:32 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:26:59 -!- lament has joined. 05:09:03 -!- clog has joined. 05:09:03 -!- clog has joined. 05:09:57 -!- Taaus has joined. 05:13:26 -!- lament has joined. 05:19:31 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 06:13:50 -!- deltab has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 16:40:34 -!- Toreun has joined. 17:26:35 -!- cmeme has joined. 19:41:04 -!- lament has joined. 22:40:47 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 22:42:04 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-16: 00:00:58 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 00:31:23 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:35:29 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 17:10:16 -!- Toreun has quit. 18:12:06 -!- Toreun has joined. 18:46:03 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-17: 03:13:19 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:01:47 -!- lament has joined. 06:13:15 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:43:01 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:56:30 -!- lament has quit ("reality reasserts itself sooner or later"). 09:19:55 yeah 09:20:12 I uploaded it before you apparently disappeared 09:20:24 http://yin.espnow.net/~deltab/tmp/javascript_disable_fixed.zip 09:20:34 oops 15:37:58 -!- Taaus has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:37:58 -!- cmeme has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:37:59 -!- mtve has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:38:00 -!- Toreun has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:38:00 -!- deltab has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:38:01 -!- asdasd_ has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:38:01 -!- mooz- has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:38:01 -!- fizzie has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 15:39:12 -!- Toreun has joined. 15:39:12 -!- cmeme has joined. 15:39:12 -!- deltab has joined. 15:39:12 -!- Taaus has joined. 15:39:12 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 15:39:12 -!- mtve has joined. 15:39:12 -!- fizzie has joined. 15:39:12 -!- mooz- has joined. 17:46:31 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:41:43 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-18: 02:44:28 -!- Toreun has joined. 02:54:51 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:33:39 -!- lament has joined. 05:38:45 -!- cmeme has quit (SendQ exceeded). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:52:29 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 12:44:43 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:14:37 -!- Toreun has joined. 16:18:09 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:28:44 -!- lament has joined. 19:16:40 -!- lament has quit ("lame"). 19:45:11 -!- lament has joined. 22:45:56 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 2004-02-19: 02:16:25 -!- Toreun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:39:25 -!- lament has joined. 05:29:09 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:35:57 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:30:36 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 19:37:45 -!- lament has joined. 23:17:04 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 23:58:41 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-20: 01:00:07 -!- lament has set topic: Celebrate Chaoflux!. 01:00:09 :) 01:06:07 where do all those holidays come from? 01:07:38 ddate 01:08:21 and why is it my imap server works perfectly, except that the "Sent" folder is broken now? 01:08:57 Chaoflux 01:13:22 Eee! How come I have ddate installed? Where did it come from? And why did I only find out about it now? To think of all the times I've looked up the current discordian date by hand... :( 01:13:41 heh! 01:13:54 afaik it's installed on the majority of linux systems 01:14:02 Oooh. The %. format option is neat :) 01:14:28 not on my slackware it isn't. 01:14:31 Umlaut Zebra über alles! 01:14:33 well, wasn't. 01:14:39 Pzat! 01:14:44 wait. 01:14:44 Grudnuk demand sustenance! 01:14:48 actually it was! 01:15:16 straaange. installed only the few necessary packages, rest are hand-compiled. apparently it's deemed to be pretty important. 01:15:18 "Hail Eris, Hack Linux!" Haha! 01:15:39 heh heh 01:15:44 mine doesn't have that 01:16:50 it just has "Hail Eris!" 01:17:00 it hasn't been polluted by evil GREYFACE LINUX HACKERS 01:17:09 Fnord. 01:25:34 mine has both 'Hail Eris, Hack Linux!' and 'Hail Eris!', but now I'm trying to figure out how tcsh aliases play with quotation, to get a sensible default format. 01:28:06 ah, so that's how it works. 01:31:19 simply running tcsh is a lot more esoteric than running ddate on it 01:33:08 apparently (well, now-obviously) I need to double-escape everything, because tcsh will, when reading the command, strip off a layer of escapation, and there needs to be one left for the invocation. 01:33:19 besides, tcsh is the default shell at our university. 01:36:12 actually, unless I misremember, tcsh is the default shell both on the computing centre's servers and all the boxen of cs lab. 04:05:36 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 04:34:53 -!- Toreun has joined. 07:48:13 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:19:03 -!- lament has quit ("good night"). 19:33:27 -!- Toreun has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- cmeme has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- Taaus has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- mtve has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- deltab has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- mooz- has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- fizzie has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:27 -!- asdasd_ has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:38:20 -!- Toreun has joined. 19:38:20 -!- cmeme has joined. 19:38:20 -!- deltab has joined. 19:38:20 -!- Taaus has joined. 19:38:20 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 19:38:20 -!- mtve has joined. 19:38:20 -!- fizzie has joined. 19:38:20 -!- mooz- has joined. 19:47:20 -!- clog has joined. 19:47:20 -!- clog has joined. 20:30:22 -!- lament has joined. 22:13:43 -!- Daeken has joined. 22:13:47 * Daeken waves 22:13:52 -!- deltab has quit ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it."). 22:14:02 Welcome to the slowest channel on freenode :) 22:14:09 haha 22:14:38 We have logs to prove it's not dead 22:14:41 :P 22:23:15 but the link to logs isn't on the topic any more, thanks to you people being obsessed in remembering all the 'necessary' discordian holidays. 22:23:58 well, they are necessary 22:24:56 lol 22:27:33 well, I did add an invocation of 'ddate' to my .tcshrc. 'just in case.' 22:29:27 ooh. I can download the posix standards as .pdfs from ieee using our university's "ieee/iee electronic library (iel) online" subscription, since the student apartment network is included in their access list. must be downloading these now. 22:32:41 I.. think this document has multiple pages. 22:34:19 by 'multiple' I mean 3678. 22:41:53 ...how big is the pdf? 22:42:33 1976123+1704241+6803084+5104705 bytes. (it has 4 parts.) 23:24:51 of course the index doesn't include links to the content, even though it's a pdf, and the page numbering of the pdf doesn't match the numbering used in the contents, thanks to introductionary pages marked with roman numerals. 23:38:28 -!- hcf has joined. 23:39:05 the logs url is given in the notice from chanserv when entering and is given by /whois clog 23:39:19 -!- hcf has left (?). 23:49:09 what, _again_ that guy? 2004-02-21: 00:38:36 -!- deltab has joined. 02:45:38 does esolang keep archives anywhere? 02:46:01 there used to be one huge file somewhere 02:46:09 http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/ perhaps? 02:46:32 sweet! 02:49:36 P'tang! 03:01:11 found it :) 03:01:12 http://mirge.net/~lament/summer.txt 03:04:14 but it's not nearly summer yet. 03:04:29 Yeah, and another summer 2002 won't come in a while 03:04:34 s/in/for 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:35 -!- deltab has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:29:50 -!- deltab has joined. 09:35:25 -!- lament has quit ("good night"). 14:28:42 -!- andreou has joined. 14:35:46 -!- andreou has set topic: We discordians must stick apart.. 15:08:41 -!- andreou has quit ("returned to the spirit world."). 15:49:55 -!- Daeken has left (?). 19:36:30 -!- lament has joined. 20:01:22 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 2004-02-22: 03:37:39 -!- Toreun has quit. 04:18:16 -!- andreou has joined. 05:15:53 -!- lament has joined. 05:53:16 -!- lament has changed nick to xXxL4m3n7_69. 05:54:01 -!- xXxL4m3n7_69 has changed nick to lament. 06:03:23 -!- andreou has quit ("returned to the spirit world."). 06:50:24 -!- lament has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:50:25 -!- Taaus has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:50:25 -!- cmeme has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:50:25 -!- deltab has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:50:25 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:50:53 -!- deltab has joined. 06:50:53 -!- cmeme has joined. 06:50:53 -!- Taaus has joined. 06:50:53 -!- mtve has joined. 06:51:18 -!- lament has joined. 07:37:44 -!- lament has changed nick to Eris. 07:38:05 -!- Eris has set topic: Discordianism is off-topic in this channel. Anybody discussing it will be banned.. 07:38:08 -!- Eris has changed nick to lament. 07:38:20 bah 07:38:30 it gives my hostmask 07:44:46 -!- lament has left (?). 07:44:52 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:57:35 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 21:28:11 -!- lament has joined. 21:29:51 \def\hand{$-\!\!\!-\!\!\!\!\!\succ\!\!\!\!\prec\!\!\!\!\!-\!\!\!-$} % Hail Eris! 21:33:35 !! 21:43:09 unhail 21:43:33 Unhail Aneris? 21:44:09 yes. 21:44:29 Fair enough, I guess. 21:44:38 nothing is fair. 21:46:50 -!- lament has changed nick to Riostradh. 21:47:34 amazing. 21:48:15 is it just my imagination or is #scheme being marginally stranger than it usually is? 21:48:25 -!- Riostradh has changed nick to lament. 21:48:33 I think Riastradh blew a gasket. 21:48:45 he's a teacher, right 21:48:50 that happens to teachers. 23:40:00 -!- lament has quit ("and therefore."). 2004-02-23: 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 14:52:39 -!- Toreun has joined. 21:59:40 -!- Taaus_ has joined. 22:01:25 -!- Taaus has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:01:32 -!- Taaus_ has changed nick to Taaus. 22:55:21 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-24: 00:15:55 -!- Toreun has quit. 01:12:58 -!- cmeme has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:12:59 -!- mtve has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:12:59 -!- deltab has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:13:00 -!- mooz- has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:13:00 -!- fizzie has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:13:01 -!- asdasd_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:20:03 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:20:03 -!- mooz- has joined. 01:20:03 -!- asdasd_ has joined. 01:20:03 -!- mtve has joined. 01:20:03 -!- cmeme has joined. 01:20:03 -!- deltab has joined. 03:10:42 HERE LIES LESTER MOORE 03:10:42 SHOT 4 TIMES WITH A .44 03:10:42 NO LES 03:10:42 NO MOORE 03:10:42 -- tombstone, in Tombstone, AZ 03:11:06 Pretty. 03:13:24 Hmm... Is it normal to feel like clobbering yourself to death when you're programming in C? 03:14:18 ask in #C 03:14:25 i'm sure the answer will be "yes" 03:14:31 :/ 03:14:54 well, i don't know really 03:14:56 C isn't malicious 03:15:10 unlike some other languages, it doesn't actually want you to go insane 03:15:22 It's forcing me to write unsafe code. As far as I can see, anyway. 03:15:57 You mean insanity is just a nice bonus? :) 03:17:22 is it really unsafe? 03:17:42 Well, it's potentially unsafe. 03:17:54 I'm forced to use casting. 03:18:27 oh no!!!! 03:18:37 Indeed. That was my reaction. 03:19:44 In a well designed C program, you don't need casting. 03:19:52 In a well designed C program, there's only one data type. 03:20:10 What, char? :) 03:20:19 void 03:20:35 Eh. 03:20:46 That's just sick :) 03:36:24 more languages should have a void datatype 03:39:47 Why? 03:39:54 Why not? 03:40:19 Because it's unnecessary? 03:40:26 how so? 03:41:20 Explain to me how a language with no void datatype would benefit from having one. 03:50:44 religious significance. 03:51:01 And it sounds really cool. 03:51:14 Mmmkay... I think that's my cue to head off to bed. :) 03:51:19 you could Cast thinsg Unto The Void 03:52:18 java's Object is pretty much void, actually 05:35:15 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 06:21:06 -!- lament has joined. 07:22:12 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 12:47:24 -!- edwinb has joined. 14:18:25 -!- edwinb has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:23:50 -!- edwinb has joined. 21:19:55 -!- lament has joined. 23:25:19 -!- lament has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:26:41 -!- lament has joined. 2004-02-25: 00:25:14 -!- e-kyle has joined. 00:41:36 whois e-kyle 00:41:44 -!- e-kyle has left (?). 06:00:15 -!- lament has quit ("STUDY TIME"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 18:39:26 yay. I just wrote my first brainf*ck program. 2004-02-26: 00:53:11 -!- Toreun has joined. 01:56:24 -!- Toreun has quit. 04:17:51 -!- lament has joined. 05:50:49 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:51:26 -!- lament has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:20:20 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 09:01:51 -!- jms has joined. 09:57:39 -!- jms has quit ("moist"). 19:04:10 -!- lament has joined. 20:06:29 interesting. ircnet gets the 'quit reasons get "s automagically' feature. 20:07:56 freenode is in fashion now! 20:08:21 few finnish ircnet servers just restarted with the updated ircd. 20:08:42 but it's not dancer, is it? 20:08:57 no, of course not. 20:08:59 it's ircd. :p 20:09:50 another feature they added is that the command "POST" will be an alias for "QUIT", so you can't abuse www-proxies to irc any longer. 20:10:07 hm 20:10:10 what's POST? 20:10:23 POST is a HTTP method. 20:10:50 what does it have to do with IRC then? 20:11:03 most proxies don't let you use 'CONNECT', so you need to trick them with 'POST', but then you end up saying 'POST' to the irc server too. 20:11:06 so it immediately quits. 20:44:20 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 21:46:18 -!- lament has joined. 23:10:11 -!- lament has changed nick to laament. 2004-02-27: 02:40:19 -!- laament has changed nick to laaway. 03:22:06 -!- laaway has changed nick to lament. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:12 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 23:29:28 -!- memetics has joined. 23:42:06 -!- deltab has quit ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it."). 23:42:37 -!- deltab has joined. 2004-02-28: 00:36:01 -!- lament has joined. 06:13:00 -!- lament has quit ("Lost terminal"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:16:31 -!- memetics has left (?). 19:19:18 -!- lament has joined. 21:07:04 -!- lament has quit ("Money is the answer to everything (Ecclesiastes 10:19)"). 22:58:35 re our topic, it's st. tib's day at least in our timezone. 23:06:24 whoa! 23:06:27 ddate(1) will produce undefined behaviour if asked to produce the date for St. Tib's day and its format string does not contain the St. Tib's Day delimiters %{ and %}. 23:06:30 indeed! 23:06:35 [1:07:11] fizban@colin ~> /usr/bin/ddate +"It's the %e of %B, %Y. %. %NCelebrate %H." 23:06:38 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 2004-02-29: 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 20:54:41 -!- lament has joined. 23:41:32 -!- biroblack71 has joined. 23:41:54 -!- biroblack71 has left (?).