< 1071621543 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Which fugues can you play now? < 1071621654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g-minor < 1071621667 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-minor, sometimes stumble just in a few places < 1071621679 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first half of c-major :) < 1071621703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a long way to go to playing the c# fugues which is what i really want to do. < 1071621724 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all of this from WTC book I) < 1071621726 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe... The first half of C-major is the easy part! :) < 1071621741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but < 1071621746 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second half is the hard part :) < 1071621764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't make any sense. < 1071621774 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't _hear_ those strettos, how am i supposed to play them! < 1071621783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know exactly where they are and can't hear them anyway. < 1071621815 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1071621938 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe i should just try harder. < 1071621958 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing or playing? :) < 1071622027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both. < 1071622036 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really like it, anyway. < 1071622044 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit strained. < 1071622052 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of those strettos) < 1071622070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a dirty hack :) < 1071622083 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1071622111 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J.S.Bach - The fugue-hacker. < 1071622112 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the parts i can't play :)) < 1071622187 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnit... I can't seem to find my WTC book I. < 1071622195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm learning Fmaj now. < 1071622251 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you play the C# ones? < 1071622261 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get the chance, try learning his F minor sinfonia... It's bizarre. < 1071622284 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope... These days, I only play... Hmm... D-major, I think. < 1071622300 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1071622314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 4-voice fugue, that one's pretty lame. < 1071622326 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, these days I don't play a lot of Bach... I'm in a Scott Joplin period :) < 1071622337 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I like the ending of it :) < 1071622346 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. I like the beginning :) < 1071622362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would try to learn Entertainer if i had the score < 1071622370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i only have a weird four-hands version < 1071622383 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make it difficult. < 1071622394 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entertainers :) < 1071622397 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could learn both parts ;) < 1071622419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play one, return back in time to where i'm playing it and play the other one? < 1071622431 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1071622459 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! Time machines solve _everything_! < 1071622480 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already established that time machines are impossible because they allow one to solve the halting problem < 1071622537 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Right. < 1071622705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i don't think i can play entertainer on my keyboard anyway < 1071622708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough keys < 1071622724 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all WTC fits in four octaves :) < 1071622728 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1071622747 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four octaves... I'd go crazy. < 1071622752 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... More crazy. < 1071622770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have five < 1071622788 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't use the highest one :) < 1071622826 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have... Seven. And I recently got my piano tuned! Whooo. < 1071622882 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not well-tempered? :) < 1071622922 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, not well-tempered. I prefer modern tuning. < 1071622946 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prefer"? You actually tried well temperament? < 1071622979 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1071622989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1071623062 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a theory that everything in WTC is written specifically to show off the idiosyncrasies of the key it's in. < 1071623069 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i don't believe, but it's still a good theory. < 1071623111 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... I have a mathematician/musician acquaintance who wrote a bachelor thingy on that subject. < 1071623124 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't believe it either :P < 1071623151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that the C#major fugue, for example, was originally written in Cmajor < 1071623158 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather hard to believe :) < 1071623177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it makes me want to play it in cmajor... < 1071623205 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... Maybe Bach lucked out when it turned out that it sounded better in C# major ;) < 1071623223 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's only in C# to annoy me. < 1071623270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not in Java :) < 1071623285 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come now... C# major is an _easy_ key... You just have to remember that every single note is shifted up half a note ;) < 1071623292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1071623301 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew. Java... I have to use Java next semester... Pity me. < 1071623308 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity you! < 1071623314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pity you. < 1071623317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used java this semester. < 1071623323 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was only an introductory course. < 1071623336 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pity you! Introductorially. < 1071623338 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what stuff they teach in introductory courses (CS 111)! < 1071623354 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, of course they teach all that stuff that's basic to computer science < 1071623359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO, data hiding, < 1071623362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applets, Swing, < 1071623367 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :threads... < 1071623368 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1071623442 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily, our first semester was SML... At least that's a halfway sane language. < 1071623446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1071623452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our uni < 1071623459 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used Scheme for that introductory course. < 1071623462 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until last year. < 1071623467 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's all Java. < 1071623478 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1071623485 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is clearly a bad introductory language < 1071623490 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even create applets in it! < 1071623494 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easily anyway. < 1071623539 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1071623631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND it doesn't have OO < 1071623645 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried arguing with prof over OO terminology. < 1071623648 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it's useless. < 1071623654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/prof/the prof < 1071623655 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It usually is. < 1071623673 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the disagreement? < 1071623674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! at least it's java, not C++ < 1071623677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several < 1071623683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encapsulation vs. data hiding, for one < 1071623690 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1071623815 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we were using Smalltalk instead of Java. < 1071623851 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish everybody were :) < 1071623870 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point :D < 1071623889 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alas < 1071623893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk is too dynamic < 1071623908 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1071623923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, to do anythnig useful in Java < 1071623929 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to cast things from Object < 1071623936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it about as dynamic as smalltalk < 1071623943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather more inconvenient < 1071623965 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come now... Casting makes you feel ALIVE! < 1071623967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not at all type-safe) < 1071624047 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but casting also makes me regret it :) < 1071624072 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1071643255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our 'introductory course' is scheme, and up to last year it was taught using sicp as the course material and was a moderately challenging course, called (translated) something like 'programming T1', then in the next semester there's 'programming T2' which uses C and java and is utterly trivial. < 1071643354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this year 't1' was changed to 'introduction to programming', half of the material was cut away and the book changed to htdp ( design programs), because they thought it was _too_ challenging. I'd disagree but no-one asks me.) < 1071643408 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ht - "how to" < 1071643411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MIT did the same < 1071643547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? well, our 't1' didn't even try to cover whole sicp, only about the three first parts. don't think that would've been too much. and htdp is _horrible_. they use non-standard scheme, too. it's filled with "local"s, which is an utterly useless form since there already are internal defines and all the let-forms. < 1071643607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they talk about lambda only in the last few chapters of the book, and it's introduced as being a shorthand notation for (local ((define (foo ..) ..)) foo). < 1071643641 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1071643694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh anyway there's this 'digital and computer technology, basic course' exam in 14 minutes, guess I should get going to the right building. < 1071643702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be being away now. -> < 1071645151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Celebrate Yuletide! It's never too early! < 1071647999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1071648000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1071649758 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1071652980 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1071652980 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1071653014 0 :mtve!~mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1071653014 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1071658817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was rather trivial. < 1071695519 0 :lament!~lament@h24-85-63-178.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric