00:22:11 is music turing-complete? 00:26:36 -!- lament has set topic: http://www.stephensykes.com/choon/choon.html. 00:29:01 Ah, I remember that. 00:34:05 have you played with it? 00:34:27 Nope. 00:43:23 Oooh. The Quack Scheme mode for Emacs automatically turns 'lambda' into a small lambda symbol :D 00:43:53 http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/screenshot.png 00:44:40 How --ahem-- useful... :) 00:44:49 Hehe. 00:44:53 Well... I thought it was cute ;) 00:54:20 very. 00:54:29 Indeed. 01:01:05 eta looks neat too. 01:01:09 -!- lament has quit ("leaving"). 01:06:07 -!- andreou has quit. 03:11:39 -!- clog has joined. 03:11:39 -!- clog has joined. 06:28:38 -!- andreou has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:37:20 -!- andreou has quit. 17:08:18 -!- andreou has joined. 17:19:10 -!- docelic has joined. 17:19:22 -!- docelic has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:50:51 -!- lament has joined. 17:56:19 Pragmatic Programmers(tm) replied to my email. 17:56:26 What did they say? 17:56:30 They exhibit horrible suckage. 17:56:40 Well, that goes without saying. 17:56:53 And they probably reserve the right to include your email in their next book. 17:56:57 I deleted one of the answers 17:57:06 but here's the other one 17:57:16 We've always felt that Python's OO features has a distinctly "bolted-on" feel, 17:57:20 that they were neither integral nor seemless with the language on the whole. 17:57:22 Ruby, by comparison, is fully OO from the ground up -- native types included, 17:57:24 no 17:57:27 magic names with double underscores, etc. 17:57:30 That's the gist of it. 17:57:57 Well... My momma always used to say that you shouldn't trust someone who can't spell 'seamless'. 17:58:38 well, hey - _i_ don't subscribe to their mailing list :) 17:58:46 Ouch. Touché. 18:00:21 BTW, what is Touche? 18:00:30 Like 'got me' or something? 18:00:35 Yeah. 18:00:41 I think it's a fencing term. 18:06:16 There're too many esoteric languages :( 18:06:56 Just eliminate the useless ones, then. Oh, wait... 18:07:18 :-) 18:08:22 well, there're some genuinely bad ones 18:08:34 like ook :) 18:08:41 And E ;) 18:08:51 Most of the minimal assemblers are rather mediocre 18:09:14 which includes brainfuck, but brainfuck is special 18:52:12 X::=~# 18:52:12 Y::=~* 18:52:12 Z::=~\n 18:52:12 _.::=._X 18:52:12 _*::=*_Y 18:52:14 ._|::=.Z-| 18:52:17 *_|::=Z 18:52:19 ..-::=.-. 18:52:22 **-::=*-. 18:52:25 *.-::=*-* 18:52:27 .*-::=.-* 18:52:28 I love Thue. 18:52:29 @.-::=@_. 18:52:32 (.) (.) 18:52:32 @*-::=@_* 18:52:35 ::= 18:52:35 ) ( 18:52:37 @_*...............| 18:52:38 ( # ) 18:53:24 Note: That program requires a thue interpreter that understands \n 18:53:42 We call this piece 'andreou's naked ascii-art woman bisected by a Thue program' 18:53:46 What does it do? 18:54:09 it's the sierpinski cellular automaton 18:54:14 heH 18:54:15 Ah. 18:54:32 thue is really awesome for some kinds of stuff 18:54:39 and absolutely horrible for others 18:54:53 Duh. 18:54:54 I wrote a simple rhythm pattern generator in three or so lines 18:55:01 (yay for randomness) 18:55:12 And then i wante to write an interactive fiction game... 18:55:16 *wanted 18:59:32 so, i created four rooms, and the player could move from room to room 18:59:54 but if player typed anything other than n,e,s,w, the game immediately ended :( 19:00:04 thue IO sucks. 19:00:06 Tsk, tsk. 19:00:06 especially I. 19:00:26 Thue with wildcards. That would be interesting. 19:00:32 yes 19:00:36 i thought about using regexes 19:00:55 Heh... Do it in SED, you freak. ;) 19:01:01 no 19:01:40 Yeah... SED isn't very interesting as an esoteric language :/ 19:01:49 well, it's neat 19:01:52 but it's a bit too powerful. 19:02:16 Just make a Thue where ? matches any single character. 19:02:17 :) 19:02:30 My pattern generator, by the way, output things like X.X.XX.X.X.X.XX. 19:03:02 All such patterns have the property of sounding cool. 19:03:14 Heh... Coolness is subjective. 19:03:19 except perhaps X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X. 19:04:05 You should read the book 'From Polychords to Pólya' by Mike Keith... It goes through the mathematics of scales, chords and rhythms :) 19:04:35 I'm generally not very interested in generated music 19:04:57 or in mathematics of musics for that matter 19:05:13 *music :) 19:05:22 It's too scary a subject 19:06:03 Awww... Is iddle-widdle lament afraid? 19:06:10 yes 19:06:21 i'm afraid of computers being able to create good music :) 19:06:38 bad music is ok, though 19:06:42 alt.drugs.intercal 19:07:18 Heh... I imagine Intercal is classified as a depressant, and not as a stimulant... ;) 19:07:42 I think that when I was programming in Intercal I was seeing colors... 19:07:57 hm, how do i generate a sierpinsi triangle which is not slanted? 19:08:07 Slanted ==? 19:08:31 the first four lines of the output of the program i pasted: 19:08:31 * 19:08:32 * 19:08:33 ** 19:08:33 * * 19:08:33 **** 19:08:35 * * 19:08:37 Argh. 19:08:39 haha 19:08:45 Oh well. 19:09:38 one thing i don't like about Thue is that programs are too long and narrow 19:10:04 they just don't look cool 19:10:15 unlike most befunge programs, for example 19:10:16 *cough* Subjective *cough* 19:10:42 and, of course, the stupid need to escape newlines 19:10:53 really, thue programs should use a binary format :) 19:11:30 Yes, subjective. But would you put a thue program in your signature? 19:12:27 I don't know. I don't use signatures. 19:13:58 see! 19:14:42 See what? 19:15:17 thue programs aren't compact. 19:15:23 compact is good. 19:15:36 It's thinking like that that brought us Perl. 19:15:51 If you want compact, go code in J. 19:16:06 well, Perl is a great esoteric language. 19:16:20 Except for the fact that people haven't realised it's esoteric. 19:16:31 Some have! 19:16:36 Not enough. 19:16:38 *cough*perl golf 19:17:05 anyway, they might not realize it, but _of course_ it's esoteric. 19:17:21 and wonderfully compact. 19:18:41 significant newlines are highly non-esoteric. 19:18:47 fewd. 19:19:36 -!- andreou has quit. 20:52:57 -!- lament has quit ("leaving"). 21:21:57 -!- andreou has joined. 21:49:37 -!- lament has joined.