00:22:11 <lament> is music turing-complete?
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00:29:01 <Taaus> Ah, I remember that.
00:34:05 <lament> have you played with it?
00:43:23 <Taaus> Oooh. The Quack Scheme mode for Emacs automatically turns 'lambda' into a small lambda symbol :D
00:43:53 <Taaus> http://www.neilvandyke.org/quack/screenshot.png
00:44:53 <Taaus> Well... I thought it was cute ;)
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17:56:19 <lament> Pragmatic Programmers(tm) replied to my email.
17:56:26 <Taaus> What did they say?
17:56:30 <lament> They exhibit horrible suckage.
17:56:40 <Taaus> Well, that goes without saying.
17:56:53 <Taaus> And they probably reserve the right to include your email in their next book.
17:56:57 <lament> I deleted one of the answers
17:57:06 <lament> but here's the other one
17:57:16 <lament> We've always felt that Python's OO features has a distinctly "bolted-on" feel,
17:57:20 <lament> that they were neither integral nor seemless with the language on the whole.
17:57:22 <lament> Ruby, by comparison, is fully OO from the ground up -- native types included,
17:57:27 <lament> magic names with double underscores, etc.
17:57:30 <lament> That's the gist of it.
17:57:57 <Taaus> Well... My momma always used to say that you shouldn't trust someone who can't spell 'seamless'.
17:58:38 <lament> well, hey - _i_ don't subscribe to their mailing list :)
18:00:30 <andreou> Like 'got me' or something?
18:00:41 <Taaus> I think it's a fencing term.
18:06:16 <lament> There're too many esoteric languages :(
18:06:56 <Taaus> Just eliminate the useless ones, then. Oh, wait...
18:08:22 <lament> well, there're some genuinely bad ones
18:08:51 <lament> Most of the minimal assemblers are rather mediocre
18:09:14 <lament> which includes brainfuck, but brainfuck is special
18:53:24 <lament> Note: That program requires a thue interpreter that understands \n
18:53:42 <Taaus> We call this piece 'andreou's naked ascii-art woman bisected by a Thue program'
18:54:09 <lament> it's the sierpinski cellular automaton
18:54:32 <lament> thue is really awesome for some kinds of stuff
18:54:39 <lament> and absolutely horrible for others
18:54:54 <lament> I wrote a simple rhythm pattern generator in three or so lines
18:55:12 <lament> And then i wante to write an interactive fiction game...
18:59:32 <lament> so, i created four rooms, and the player could move from room to room
18:59:54 <lament> but if player typed anything other than n,e,s,w, the game immediately ended :(
19:00:26 <Taaus> Thue with wildcards. That would be interesting.
19:00:36 <lament> i thought about using regexes
19:00:55 <Taaus> Heh... Do it in SED, you freak. ;)
19:01:40 <Taaus> Yeah... SED isn't very interesting as an esoteric language :/
19:01:52 <lament> but it's a bit too powerful.
19:02:16 <Taaus> Just make a Thue where ? matches any single character.
19:02:30 <lament> My pattern generator, by the way, output things like X.X.XX.X.X.X.XX.
19:03:02 <lament> All such patterns have the property of sounding cool.
19:03:14 <Taaus> Heh... Coolness is subjective.
19:03:19 <lament> except perhaps X.X.X.X.X.X.X.X.
19:04:05 <Taaus> You should read the book 'From Polychords to Plya' by Mike Keith... It goes through the mathematics of scales, chords and rhythms :)
19:04:35 <lament> I'm generally not very interested in generated music
19:04:57 <lament> or in mathematics of musics for that matter
19:05:22 <lament> It's too scary a subject
19:06:03 <Taaus> Awww... Is iddle-widdle lament afraid?
19:06:21 <lament> i'm afraid of computers being able to create good music :)
19:06:38 <lament> bad music is ok, though
19:07:18 <Taaus> Heh... I imagine Intercal is classified as a depressant, and not as a stimulant... ;)
19:07:42 <andreou> I think that when I was programming in Intercal I was seeing colors...
19:07:57 <lament> hm, how do i generate a sierpinsi triangle which is not slanted?
19:08:31 <lament> the first four lines of the output of the program i pasted:
19:09:38 <lament> one thing i don't like about Thue is that programs are too long and narrow
19:10:04 <lament> they just don't look cool
19:10:15 <lament> unlike most befunge programs, for example
19:10:16 <Taaus> *cough* Subjective *cough*
19:10:42 <lament> and, of course, the stupid need to escape newlines
19:10:53 <lament> really, thue programs should use a binary format :)
19:11:30 <lament> Yes, subjective. But would you put a thue program in your signature?
19:12:27 <Taaus> I don't know. I don't use signatures.
19:15:17 <lament> thue programs aren't compact.
19:15:36 <Taaus> It's thinking like that that brought us Perl.
19:15:51 <Taaus> If you want compact, go code in J.
19:16:06 <lament> well, Perl is a great esoteric language.
19:16:20 <Taaus> Except for the fact that people haven't realised it's esoteric.
19:17:05 <lament> anyway, they might not realize it, but _of course_ it's esoteric.
19:17:21 <lament> and wonderfully compact.
19:18:41 <lament> significant newlines are highly non-esoteric.
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