< 1601512093 77947 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601512363 982512 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601513143 340018 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601514592 267293 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601515241 561276 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601515334 638335 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601515595 567511 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601518799 299778 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601519065 171580 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601521457 272856 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601521594 304530 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601521594 449351 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601522072 112546 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601522344 104029 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601522602 60312 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601522878 970509 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601522888 43327 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601524605 918809 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601525870 606833 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601526107 566432 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601527587 211699 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601527880 222176 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1601528232 536043 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1601530837 932300 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601531104 866242 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1601531940 87080 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601533971 642676 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601535275 721849 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601535627 295254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601539645 49221 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing JOIN :#esoteric < 1601539749 301908 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601539782 481528 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601539883 852468 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601542362 727804 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601542545 593248 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601543407 415219 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing JOIN :#esoteric < 1601543641 964629 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1601545607 569178 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601548022 560245 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601549296 922102 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 QUIT :Quit: \o/ < 1601550137 494566 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601550190 246067 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601550633 95996 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601550711 955 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601552395 466342 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601552407 647537 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601553190 57098 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601553207 891444 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601555687 193691 :atriq!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 NICK :Taneb < 1601557372 533082 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601557419 825473 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601563929 642605 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601564038 203210 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1601564040 771347 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is juberous. < 1601564287 159655 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` hg log -l 9 -T '{date(date,"%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M%z")}\n' /hackenv/wisdom/password < 1601564288 780150 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2020-09-01T02:18+0000 \ 2020-07-03T10:20+0000 \ 2020-06-01T00:25+0000 \ 2020-05-30T16:11+0000 \ 2020-04-05T05:35+0000 \ 2020-03-01T00:14+0000 \ 2020-02-12T01:20+0000 \ 2020-02-12T01:19+0000 \ 2020-02-12T01:18+0000 < 1601564471 737824 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this password thing for anyway? < 1601564616 432870 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a password of the month < 1601564671 706181 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll know when you need it < 1601564736 838237 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601564838 310078 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601564893 276651 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601564961 276179 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the password for last month, specifically < 1601565708 894832 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydraulic tissue exodus stormy decadence egghead resistor flatfoot escapade newborn recipe < 1601565711 737508 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydraulic tissue exodus stormy decadence egghead resistor flatfoot escapade newborn recipe < 1601565743 219703 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat one < 1601565766 229838 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very memorable < 1601566107 570037 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601566667 992170 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a passphrase for a Bitcoin wallet? > 1601566711 446631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77775&oldid=60363 5* 03Zesterer 5* (+134) 10Added reference impl > 1601566749 861879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hanoifuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77776&oldid=77775 5* 03Zesterer 5* (-3) 10 < 1601566921 720864 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: yes, it's the passphrase for Satoshi's billion dollar bitcoin wallet < 1601567015 451919 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can get the encrypted private key too, you have have to hang throught the ceiling Mission Impossible style in the secret computer room in the bunker under his hidden luxury mansion and copy it to a floppy < 1601567075 51658 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the laser beams on the head of the moat sharks are harmless, they couldn't get it to act as death rays, because the sharks wouldn't keep the required battery swallowed for a long enough time < 1601567094 881994 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed > 1601567117 94720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SCREAMCODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77777&oldid=77556 5* 03Baguette 5* (+11) 10Re-formatted example program > 1601567198 156616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SCREAMCODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77778&oldid=77777 5* 03Baguette 5* (+95) 10Clarifies how instructions are written < 1601567687 606886 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1601567690 86171 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601567769 70095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601568058 885907 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601569201 806625 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: what about the implantations < 1601574011 347300 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I downloaded and executed a virus, dumb me :D < 1601574042 113743 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was too eager < 1601574047 514090 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you do that < 1601574051 352928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1601574223 415562 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :satoshi_wallet.exe? < 1601574252 881654 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally_real_esolang_interpreter.pdf.exe < 1601574949 258822 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601575257 667379 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601578046 342817 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing JOIN :#esoteric < 1601578943 572296 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601578968 839657 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601580557 697407 :zeroed!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in < 1601581023 325694 :admino!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed JOIN :#esoteric < 1601581073 736686 :admino!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed NICK :zeroed < 1601582795 939577 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does magnet: URI scheme have a parameter to specify the MIME type of the file? As far as I can tell, it doesn't have. There is the name, length, and hash, but you might want the MIME type too. Application-specific parameters are possible, but the MIME type seems like something that might be common enough that shouldn't need to be an application-specific parameter. < 1601587608 120662 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601587839 1204 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601589304 535874 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601589341 400993 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you suppose the SHA-4 contest will be decided by cryptanalysis and similar practical considerations all the way, or will they use ritual trial by combat among champions representing each finalist hash function? < 1601589496 793655 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the SHA-4 hash function? < 1601589679 478680 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we don't know yet, the contest would be held to decide what hash function it will be, just like the SHA-3 contest < 1601589745 227169 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, probably cryptanalysis and stuff like that might be the consideration, I think. < 1601589914 411350 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I don't know how the contests actually work, so I just guess. < 1601591317 521806 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cryptanalysis and simliar stuff is always a consideration of course < 1601591393 101506 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just asking what happens in the final when the NIST has to pick one among multiple spotless candidates < 1601591454 169557 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I don't know. < 1601591528 449311 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will the trial by combat be recorded? It's important for analysis of the reasoning method. (Popcorn purchase complete.) Ignore that. < 1601591637 226311 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, if there are two that work OK, choose one which is not too complicated to implement. < 1601592129 168831 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :t20kdc: yes, the whole point is the transparency of the process, so that NIST doesn't have to choose from among hash functions without clear drawbacks, and they don't want to make it look like they make the choice because they know some secret vulnerability in one of the hash functions < 1601592140 812317 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the trial by combat has to be documented carefully < 1601592199 19301 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1601592798 453766 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601592840 839536 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601592869 317432 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601594260 422141 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1601596497 467700 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601597148 860140 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing JOIN :#esoteric < 1601597344 284664 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601597359 874955 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1601598265 938716 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1601598282 219463 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1601598440 555258 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1601599651 616125 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601604965 907578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I hope they standardize an unkeyed permutation instead. < 1601605030 486378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can construct a hash function, stream cipher, block cipher, etc. out of it. < 1601605449 847701 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1601606459 894639 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601607953 729274 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1601608007 756009 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601608869 638203 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601610540 717150 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing JOIN :#esoteric > 1601610669 898889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77779 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+829) 10Created page with "'''Coeus''' is an esolang inspired (loosely) by 3-cell brainf*ck. It uses 4 registers (A-D). A is initially 1 and all others are 0. === Commands === X and Y represent any regi..." < 1601611276 248901 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1601611564 492258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetrapyronia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77780&oldid=77673 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+12) 10 < 1601612995 244679 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601616455 69988 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1601619506 214799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77781&oldid=77779 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (-2) 10 < 1601619604 812868 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601620781 847045 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any open source pokemon battle simulator implement a rule the same as or similar to the following: If the opponent's pokemon is Spinda and the generation is III or IV or V, you can see their ability, and unless the generation is V, also their nature. < 1601626131 387266 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601626263 840070 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601626342 797776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601626554 73457 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601626770 994357 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601628368 735037 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vsgumlixxzyhfqxc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1601632487 586514 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601634821 957117 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601635802 776854 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1601637344 2468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77782&oldid=65950 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (-48) 10TODO! < 1601638195 768301 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601638211 815929 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1601639055 997780 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77783&oldid=77782 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+43) 10 > 1601639456 503077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77784&oldid=77783 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+393) 10/* Overview */ > 1601639806 969641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77785&oldid=77784 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+493) 10/* Overview */ > 1601640049 524733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77786&oldid=77785 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+240) 10/* Overview */ > 1601640165 685416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77787&oldid=77786 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+55) 10/* Overview */ NO WAIT THIS IS MEDIAWIKI NOT MARKDOWN < 1601640805 371503 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601641513 354723 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601643353 570683 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601647043 894797 :grumble!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :Spooktober < 1601647679 887615 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1601648115 503506 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1601648772 505546 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601649401 964615 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601649632 878068 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsriowqmdkgjing QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601649710 308450 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pkehsujwjkxhciwt JOIN :#esoteric < 1601650085 854836 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzdsbixrodfnaeuw JOIN :#esoteric < 1601650224 400834 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601650723 381191 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601650950 623869 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601651242 319751 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1601651308 626316 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1601651494 982554 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601652188 192572 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601653515 80980 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1601653908 544200 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601654387 4738 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601654550 910212 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.167 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1601658011 988733 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1601662322 926637 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1601663060 861075 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1601664774 504489 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601666701 619575 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1601668447 903110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07English14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77788&oldid=72674 5* 03Tux1 5* (+159) 10 < 1601668630 635752 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Excess Flood < 1601668648 633150 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1601671808 818013 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77789&oldid=77626 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-86) 10/* Sabdt */ > 1601672211 141706 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77790&oldid=77781 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+0) 10 > 1601672502 118457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Olivato 5* 10New user account > 1601672971 449334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77791&oldid=77759 5* 03Olivato 5* (+241) 10 > 1601674577 181746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Mapfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77792&oldid=77645 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+1) 10/* mappings */ < 1601676594 796435 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601676780 146320 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601678254 786452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1601678255 215312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 022220Z AUTO 06012KT 020V100 9999 FEW036 BKN080 20/07 Q0994 < 1601678302 923975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happening, it has not cooled down this night at all... Föhn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind) maybe.. < 1601678663 943541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1601678664 561193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 022220Z AUTO 05008KT 010V080 5000 -RA BKN008/// BKN014/// OVC046/// //////TCU 14/13 Q0989 TEMPO 4000 RA < 1601678788 181890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.bergfex.at/tirol/wetter/stationen/innsbruck-flughafen/ has temperature curves going back two weeks... having a flat line after 1pm is pretty unusual :) < 1601678818 300851 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Föhn is a real phenomenon here and is the most probable explanation. < 1601678825 995746 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ehdl < 1601678826 568569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EHDL 022225Z AUTO VRB10KT 9999 -DZ OVC093 15/13 Q0991 BLU < 1601680081 768163 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1601680681 658685 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser remembers me visiting newlisp.org but not newsday.com ? < 1601682410 46228 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601682501 590281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1601682502 242511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 022253Z 30005KT 3SM FU HZ OVC028 30/16 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP131 FU OVC028 T03000156 < 1601682512 984691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to decide when to go back to KOAK. < 1601682525 759736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That FU does not make it sound appealing. < 1601683353 912048 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601683468 573930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1601683469 997992 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydraulic tissue exodus stormy decadence egghead resistor flatfoot escapade newborn recipe < 1601683492 70499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Somebody overcompensated for lost opportunities. ) < 1601684161 770184 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1601685589 236232 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF... https://www.lifewire.com/strong-password-examples-2483118 lists "BankLogin!3" as an excellent password... < 1601685756 994841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I should ban digits and "special characters" in passwords. < 1601685777 479654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make passwords harder to remember and probably don't meaningfully increase entropy? < 1601685790 334949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make them quicker to type though < 1601685829 969011 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should not ban anything except perhaps null characters and some control characters (depending on the application). However, you should not require digits and "special characters" either. And, please do not set the maximum length too small! < 1601685836 180054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they add some bits of entropy if they're not l33t-derived. < 1601685878 415659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it should just be a-z < 1601685886 180686 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary octets should otherwise be allowed in the password. < 1601685887 681253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess allowing capital letters is one bit per character. < 1601685900 331495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 26 < 1601685906 478354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4.700439718141093 < 1601685910 208847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 62 < 1601685913 82597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.954196310386876 < 1601685916 48720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could've guessed that one. < 1601685937 907801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital letters... I'd imagine for most people they add one bit per word. < 1601685938 52571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 72 < 1601685940 941899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.169925001442312 < 1601685951 776224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 15 * logBase 2 26 < 1601685954 216926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 70.50659577211638 < 1601685958 688598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably this is a pretty good password. < 1601685980 699348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, people will use words if you let them) < 1601686003 438938 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what word list b_jonas used. < 1601686011 5975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you shouldn't let people choose passwords. < 1601686015 797507 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some people will. Some people use numbers instead. < 1601686028 249766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just generate a 70-bit 15-character password and let them regenerate on demand. < 1601686028 870982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suspect this is one of his serious entries... so it's bound to be 16 actually random words.) < 1601686069 937195 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that you should let people choose passwords, but ensure the maximum length is sufficiently long (I suggest at least sixty bytes, probably more). A random password option might be good too, though, maybe. < 1601686083 192533 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not diceware. < 1601686111 77308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 bytes. < 1601686115 435814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good one, good one. < 1601686140 203831 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 bytes would be overkill for random passwords though < 1601686147 636086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :password123xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > 1601686159 211357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kosayoda 5* 10New user account < 1601686162 575353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a pretty useless metric < 1601686164 158748 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: Yes, but I only specified that as a maximum length, not the minimum or default length. < 1601686171 434317 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1601686175 133878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad, I misread. < 1601686179 364168 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same... < 1601686210 545536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, made an assumption because hardly anybody speaks of maximum password lengths... minimum lengths are all the rage < 1601686213 94267 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you can, increase the maximum length to more than that.) < 1601686247 688687 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum length restrictions beyond those required to avoid extreme processing times shouldn't be necessary in any sensible password scheme < 1601686269 843908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That page also says that "BankLogin" is an OK password. < 1601686299 17573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, it's wholly embarrassing. < 1601686310 906844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designed to make people feel good about their passwords, I'm sure. < 1601686329 574984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says that "kitty" is an OK password. < 1601686344 568706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite saying a bit above that such a password is incredibly insecure. < 1601686349 183528 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: Yes, that is true. (Well, not only time but also memory. And depending on the program, it may display asterisks as it is being typed and there may be limited space on the display, but you can also conceal the password entirely (like traditionally in UNIX-based systems), display on multiple lines, use smaller fonts, etc.) < 1601686350 530121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "OK" is a euphemism? < 1601686354 93649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read it all. > 1601686372 664435 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77793&oldid=77791 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+186) 10Add introduction < 1601686383 676325 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have begun using relatively long sentences in conlangs as passwords > 1601686425 145145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77794&oldid=71117 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+63) 10Add a Python implementation of the language. < 1601686426 204506 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably shouldn't have called it "OK", but yeah the mechanism of "take a dictionary word and add special characters or numbers" is not great < 1601686435 965992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a random word in /[a-z]{15}/ is pretty good. < 1601686448 549063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want more than 70 bits? < 1601686451 469765 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yes, that can work. < 1601686557 61745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always the battery horse staple thing. > 1601686571 312724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77795&oldid=77794 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+19) 10Add name to linked implementation. < 1601686609 723450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many bits do you get from that? < 1601686623 989536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a password you type regularly, saving on characters is probably good. < 1601686626 675029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean on keystrokes. < 1601686634 352278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift is an extra keystroke. < 1601686643 642468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/936/ said 44 bits < 1601686665 563147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 * logBase 2 26 < 1601686668 299652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47.00439718141092 < 1601686751 607824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` egrep --text -o '[a-z]' /dev/urandom | tr -d '\n' | head -c10 < 1601686752 871404 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmtjeklgfm < 1601686755 685605 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays I get KeePass to generate my passwords except for a few that I've memorised < 1601686866 602943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 bits is presumably OK if you know the password is being stored securely with a fancy KDF. < 1601686877 597162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you don't then you probably want more. < 1601686883 644113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 70 even enough? < 1601687007 386799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 is plenty < 1601687119 674343 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually look at this... Bitcoin is at 2^47 hashes per second. < 1601687185 896396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it way more than that? < 1601687212 268462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate says 140M TH/s < 1601687222 994157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 140e18 < 1601687226 157928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 66.92398872491749 < 1601687245 211405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1601687251 108297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine. < 1601687261 882493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do ISO :-( < 1601687274 220828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO? < 1601687275 37521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SI for that matter. < 1601687330 152198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so maybe 70 is only plenty if it's not stored as a plain hash. < 1601688141 478063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh well. The SI/ISO mixup isn't new, at least. But getting the prefixes wrong is.) < 1601688187 861162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the number you gave was 140e12. < 1601688198 380326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's confusilating of them to give numbers in millions of terahashes. < 1601688219 679389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either give hashes or exashes or something. < 1601692668 504729 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601693252 400609 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601694413 376233 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601694544 972096 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601694545 292951 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601696395 897735 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601696760 530360 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1601697700 500934 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601699551 210557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` unshare -U true < 1601699552 133435 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :unshare: unshare failed: Operation not permitted < 1601700054 88177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is confusing me (on my own system; less so for HackEso)... The failing syscall is `unshare`: unshare(CLONE_NEWUSER) = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted) But according to the `unshare` manpage, unprivileged users are supposed to be able to create a new user namespace, except under fairly specific circumstances... hmm one of which I can't easily check. < 1601700632 441846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work here. < 1601700906 857607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :works on none of my (Debian) systems < 1601701071 875374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the thing that I don't know how to check is that EPERM is raised if "the caller's root directory does not match the root directory of the mount namespace"... is this something that a badly designed initrd can mess up forever?) < 1601701107 76379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely. < 1601701176 671637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other condition is for unmapped (effective) user/group ids... but the default maps map *all* 32 bit values to themselves. < 1601701219 222208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cat /proc/self/{g,u}id_map --> 0 0 4294967295, twice (with some more spaces)) < 1601701295 794294 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it works for root at least. < 1601701332 478353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it works for root then it doesn't seem like the initrd thing, does it? < 1601701347 224475 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1601701368 737560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that seems to be implied. < 1601701515 753808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the EPERM coming from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.8/kernel/user_namespace.c#L69 ? < 1601701588 281785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume so. < 1601702159 156810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see two cases in that function that return EPERM. Do you know which of those it is? < 1601702690 110934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I was trying to create a chroot to test this in and the situation is ridiculous. < 1601702704 114103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls depends on libraries in /usr, so what's the point of anything? < 1601702708 182217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a silly system. < 1601702793 577216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so inside a regular chroot, you can escape easily by e.g. chdir /proc/1/root < 1601702796 650593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As root.) < 1601702872 291317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Presumably your /proc/1/root looks identical to your /? < 1601703009 268585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1601703046 376821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :root@harpy:/# unshare -U true < 1601703046 601758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unshare: unshare failed: Operation not permitted < 1601703051 727200 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's inside a chroot, as root. < 1601703085 712148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've thought of trying to test the positive case... so it's not the chroot check, phew. < 1601703267 903520 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The linked program says "Verify that we can not violate the policy of which files may be accessed that is specified by the root directory, by verifing that the root directory is at the root of the mount namespace which allows all files to be accessed." < 1601703853 299463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/blob/master/debian/patches/debian/add-sysctl-to-disallow-unprivileged-CLONE_NEWUSER-by-default.patch < 1601703940 794608 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is read permission required if you try to execute a file that has setuid bit but it is ignored? I think that, in addition to requiring execute permission, in order to execute a file, it should require that either the effective user owns the file or the effective user has permission to read the file. < 1601703943 289841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on Debian one needs sysctl kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone=1 < 1601703953 474008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it works. < 1601704009 884897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Well, so much for my kernel source code reading efforts. < 1601704042 966721 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps only for files with setuid/setgid, although perhaps in other cases too, such as if namespaces have been tampered with in any way at all) < 1601704075 788207 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601704076 643004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm sorry. I went down the same road though... https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/user_namespace.c#L69 is a useful site for that (it has links for identifiers) < 1601704098 707115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was mostly using livegrep.com < 1601704106 413741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And only then I decided that it's probably something Debian specific. < 1601704146 750002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love the "This is a short-term patch." from 2013. < 1601704202 580032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "saucy" -- is it an Ubuntu thing? < 1601704277 282902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ubuntu is based on Debian. < 1601704293 421596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's no big surprise if patches flow in the other direction as well? < 1601704313 391933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything Ubuntu does is stupid ;) < 1601704666 934813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601704743 506827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm somewhat divided on whether this is a good patch or a bad patch... what is horrible is discoverability of the feature.) < 1601705992 114563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only there was more than a numeric error code for system calls to fail with. < 1601706006 980785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they even have any error code other than EINVAL, since it covers every use case. < 1601708746 531907 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1601708760 951120 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1601709484 83031 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601709564 464013 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601712503 472833 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601712663 877451 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601714323 519388 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phkzvfkekfdoyghp QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601714334 126559 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfsgocqfqsnkqdiw JOIN :#esoteric > 1601720829 553697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705AB1E14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77796&oldid=77453 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+414) 102sable! > 1601721357 17016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zirconium14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77797&oldid=77773 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-2) 10Synthetic station definitions should be postfix, not prefix < 1601721469 880410 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/evilpass/ <-- that's one way of checking password security < 1601721614 312598 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1601721751 893416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1601722160 927688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SoicBR 5* 10New user account > 1601722505 239475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77798&oldid=77793 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+295) 10/* Introductions */ < 1601723541 537844 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601724232 427137 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601727595 983328 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601727687 665113 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601728979 629749 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601729016 899911 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601729213 451837 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1601730300 38753 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601730445 975548 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601732327 618019 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601732354 73700 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-hnucswwkmduqmwbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601732359 342765 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-ihjmyjyykiaqkmcl QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1601732361 742414 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737637 327233 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737676 21625 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737769 894961 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure this is the right place, but I couldn’t believe that esolang.org wasn’t already a redirect to esolangs.org. I bought it and want to donate/transfer the registration. Who do I contact about that? < 1601737785 250144 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601737795 503904 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601737930 394843 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at-nyc: you contact fizzie here < 1601737998 914827 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent — thank you < 1601738005 89815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with domains is, you need to keep paying for them. True, it's not much, but it's the principle of the thing. < 1601738062 188172 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601738212 810557 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah. so I presume either at-nyc pays for them, or it just goes to resale after they stop paying for them, and is a redirect until that. < 1601738235 49339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what would happen if it was transferred to me, at least. < 1601738253 826991 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they don't realize just how old this channel is, and bought it for six years which is basically forever on the internet < 1601738264 875693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure our "brand" warrants starting to collect variant domains. Of course if someone else wants to hold esolang.org (either as an alias for esolangs.org, or for any other purpose), I'm fine with that. < 1601738321 227104 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki started in 2005 I think, and the channel before 2002-12 < 1601738340 872818 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1601738373 303197 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brand" hmm. are we selling T-shirts and such merchandise yet? < 1601738598 451542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to set up a CafePress shop, I guess. < 1601738602 200934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, we're not.) < 1601738624 193992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a fungot T-shirt for special occasions, but I just got it done at one of those design-your-own places. < 1601738624 365978 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for a while it was frustrating. hb, used his sword into. he went in and killed some powerful monsters with his new hammer to the specibus < 1601738673 465386 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601738689 889045 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601738907 631869 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601738963 357924 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only visit like a handful of internet communities that are this old. perlmonks started in 2000, my user was registered in 2003, but I'm not very active there anymore. Tom7's blog (radar) is active since 2000, but I only found it in 2006 when he organized an ICFP contest. I don't know when I started reading David Madore's blog, but that one started in 2003. < 1601739011 557968 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2003-09-17.0234.html always amazes me: it's a post where David scans some public domain images and hosts them on his webpage. The normal place to host such images would be Wikimedia Commons, but Commons actually didn't exist back then. It's so hard to imagine that now. < 1601739116 342785 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the. ERICH FRIEDMAN'S MATH MAGIC ENDED? < 1601739161 431361 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it apparently dropped out from its former address http://www2.stetson.edu/~efriedma/mathmagic/archive.html , and there's an archive at https://erich-friedman.github.io/mathmagic/ < 1601739172 218898 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been going on from 1998 every month < 1601739188 662943 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1601739287 401683 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the oldest continuously active website that dropped out of the internet < 1601739376 199812 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the oldest, because yahoo.com web search started in 1995 and is still active and I have been using it < 1601739652 233110 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :google.com's been around since 1998, and I'm still using it quite often. < 1601739664 784179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly a "community" though. < 1601739795 86277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.fidonet.org/genlinfo.html "Accessing Fidonet via BBS is gaining in prominence." :) < 1601739823 203814 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come i never heard about erich friedman < 1601739828 409572 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibfuzxnpwejmzkyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601739882 354958 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601739893 23310 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither have i < 1601739913 471895 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggzkrvdtyabfmsyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1601739936 377384 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah. < 1601739991 591524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieni.us had shut down (well, removed all the content) recently, that's another semi-old (2005) piece of (Finnish) Internet subculture gone. :/ < 1601740022 389066 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I have a link on my homepage. notable parts of his homepage are Math Magic (monthly puzzles posted by Friedmann, optimized by an open community, i.e. anyone can send solutions in email), packing center, puzzle collection, and periodic table of mathematicians (biographies) < 1601740024 585918 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1601740061 868994 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was en.wikipedia founded? in 2001 apparently < 1601740125 490132 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is yearly regular since 1998 < 1601740138 409355 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry < 1601740145 122613 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICFP contest is yearly regular since 1998 < 1601740169 770930 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is yearly irregular since 1984 WOW < 1601740176 363554 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's older than me? that's crazy < 1601740206 844168 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never realized that, despite that its first winner contains machine code for two obsolete CPU architectures < 1601740249 895430 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccc/1984/mullender and for VAX-11 and PDP-11 < 1601740312 433772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (probably-)largest-circulation Finnish computer magazine ("MikroBitti") had a BBS system from 1994 onwards, later with some Internet things (email, a ~10-megabyte web page hosting place), and it was still accessible over telnet up to... well, sometime this millennium, anyway. < 1601740427 623759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBS had a funny time-keeping system, you were allowed to be connected for up to 60 minutes/day, but you could also save your unused time in the "time bank" I think up to 4 hours or so, which was convenient for some of the larger downloads that would take over an hour. < 1601740545 955170 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: until what time was it accessible outside the internet? < 1601740615 981519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently only until 2002. < 1601740625 307226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "outside". < 1601740628 96829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not sure. < 1601740654 800734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they turned off both the internet and phone lines at the same time, in 2002. < 1601740767 340299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m6ift/i_was_the_sysop_of_mbnet_perhaps_the_biggest_bbs/ < 1601740797 550454 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1601740823 699400 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope someone has a backup of most of the static content on the web < 1601740846 458397 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in, like, one small zip on archive.com) < 1601741729 496692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601742752 421627 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dd7e:7ae2:e991:f583 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601748164 335217 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601748289 162235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1601748710 438316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77799&oldid=77748 5* 03Olivato 5* (+15) 10/* C */ < 1601749601 538669 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1601749619 233738 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Client Quit < 1601749783 975292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1601751180 314595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77800 5* 03Olivato 5* (+5013) 10Created page with "'''Complack''' is a simple, stack-based language created by [[User:Olivato]]. Is based in [[Simplack]] created by [[User:Saka]]. Complack means '''Compl'''ex St'''ack''' is an..." > 1601751316 940255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77801&oldid=77800 5* 03Olivato 5* (+36) 10 > 1601751386 356128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77802&oldid=77801 5* 03Olivato 5* (-1) 10/* Fibonacci of the n-th */ > 1601751404 220969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77803&oldid=77802 5* 03Olivato 5* (-2) 10/* Subroutine */ > 1601751418 79278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77804&oldid=77803 5* 03Olivato 5* (-3) 10/* Using multiple stacks */ > 1601751528 485835 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Simplack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77805&oldid=56199 5* 03Olivato 5* (+95) 10 < 1601751760 270334 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601752117 463167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1601752249 125501 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601752573 856242 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1601753469 968499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601754883 805354 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601755347 580923 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what software was the MikroBitti BBS system? Was it any common one? < 1601755436 935768 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a program still being maintained is Synchronet, which now supports JavaScript, although I don't know if it supports typed arrays yet (and other modern JavaScript features). < 1601755655 967998 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dd7e:7ae2:e991:f583 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1601757199 900537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It was PCBoard-based, I believe. < 1601757328 25523 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I set up an instance of BBBS once, just to play around with it, but I don't think I ever had it externally accessible. < 1601757402 739916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I wonder what's the name of that one Mac OS -oriented BBS system, with a GUI and all. < 1601757408 450281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, FirstClass. < 1601757480 687049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The local Mac users' community (fiMUG) had a BBS based on that, I always found it really charming. < 1601757531 11569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/FirstClass_GLFN_desktop.png < 1601757547 516309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had these small red flags denoting unread messages. < 1601758873 354192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: phpbb can do the small red flags for undread messages in HTML too < 1601758936 496577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mnemonic is weird because we never had those kinds of mailboxes here in the city < 1601758946 200183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they only exist in the American country < 1601758963 694166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with huge fields where you want to see if you got mail from far away < 1601759144 338495 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601768404 659109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great. an advertisment of snack food where the highlighted feature is that the new product is smaller than the previous one of the same brand. smaller. that's it. if they can sell with this, they can sell anything. not that all the spam I get doesn't already prove that they can sell anything. < 1601768750 930178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it called "fun-sized"? < 1601769317 879749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe all the taste is one the surface and all the calories are inside < 1601769324 28630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one -> on < 1601769446 903166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no. "mini". < 1601769460 448762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's a snack. calories aren't the point. < 1601769474 375300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a salty cracker. < 1601769495 852847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :biscuit type, not bread type. < 1601769954 415045 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1601774732 658008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705AB1E14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77806&oldid=77796 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+82) 10/* 2sable */ > 1601774961 293887 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:SCREAMCODE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77807 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+227) 10Created page with "We already had enough of these trivial BF derivatives. When you get bored, please at least do something creative, please! ~~~~" > 1601777092 828143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ecstatic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77808&oldid=67121 5* 03B jonas 5* (+54) 10/* Syntax */ > 1601777419 9281 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77809&oldid=75557 5* 03B jonas 5* (+14) 10/* See also */ > 1601777783 540845 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77810&oldid=77809 5* 03B jonas 5* (+3) 10/* See also */ > 1601778405 988077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trivial brainfuck substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77811&oldid=69323 5* 03B jonas 5* (+616) 10show just how many of these are on the wiki < 1601778685 405476 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601778692 866677 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601783570 380988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when I bought four 4TB hard disks with the new machine, planning to have two internal and two that I occasionally plug in to make backups on and swap them so one is off-site all the time, I knew that some of the HDD manufacturers don't tell which of their drives is secretly shingled. < 1601783659 387817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is obviously bad, because customers could choose the right HD for the right purpose if they knew which ones are which, eg. I'd buy two non-shingled ones as internal and two shingled ones for the backups; and operating systems could optimize use of shingled drives much better than in the current situation when the firmware just doesn't tell anything about what it's doing and all the OS can do is < 1601783665 373941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that the drive won't lock up for an hour rearranging data. < 1601783718 681440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I specifically bought three different types of 4TB drives, from the three different manufacturers. and yes, I admit I bought two of the cheapest of the three types, but still. < 1601783803 874140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it turns out that of the four drives that I have bought, Seagate Barracuda ST4000DM004 is definitely shingled, the two Toshiba HDWD240UZSVA P300 are definitely shingled, and Western Digital WD40EZAZ is either not shingled or WD "forgot" to admit because the sysadmins couldn't prove that it's shingled yet < 1601783931 670444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even not buying two of the cheapest wouldn't have saved me, because the Seagate would have been my second choice for what I'd buy twice (it costs only slightly more than the WD and the main drive in my old computer is WD) < 1601783999 297204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I choose to buy the next hard disk, I'll still only have the choice of buying a years old model, of which sysadmins would have discovered if it was shingled, or buying a new model that may be fake shingled. < 1601784057 118888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hope this will only keep up for a few years, after which hardware manufacturers will go on to another trick because this no longer works. < 1601785019 115845 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601792004 800800 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1601797422 655657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705AB1E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77812&oldid=77806 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+4) 10The "citation needed" mark is normally italics on Wikipedia. < 1601797643 637076 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1601797680 766299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705AB1E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77813&oldid=77812 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+32) 10Does it make sense? > 1601798738 302504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SCREAMCODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77814&oldid=77778 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-8) 10Please, use swear words only when it is needed. < 1601798927 950152 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601799083 865913 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1601800921 198127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77815&oldid=53853 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10It should be capital. (Modified with ///) < 1601801564 686166 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :really. removing a curse word. < 1601801574 499279 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't contribute but we're adults. < 1601801900 564337 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say fuck on the internet. < 1601803676 269608 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601803740 825686 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-hnucswwkmduqmwbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601803865 258894 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-gvfwvshntysrjsbr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601803867 267641 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601804036 168285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601804069 399383 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:cde6:cad5:83cd:14fe JOIN :#esoteric < 1601804103 946934 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1601804745 425113 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trivial brainfuck substitution14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77816&oldid=77811 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+4607) 10Wikitableified! < 1601805036 493389 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601805264 262495 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601805290 317366 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601805319 248005 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601806466 1407 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601807389 509574 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601807452 989036 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601807484 52158 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601808654 312476 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601809999 85478 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601811416 555089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CMinusMinus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77817&oldid=72049 5* 03CMinusMinus 5* (+0) 10 < 1601814326 518995 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601814341 90566 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601814740 853311 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601814905 89809 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601814922 876848 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601820357 280737 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601821611 398350 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1601821675 19817 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host < 1601821675 19877 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1601822216 881217 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:cde6:cad5:83cd:14fe QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1601824271 868208 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601824379 902916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77818&oldid=77648 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-15) 10/* Positive integers addition */ > 1601825041 578392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Modulous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77819&oldid=77599 5* 03Abyxlrz 5* (+9) 10 < 1601825595 347520 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601827442 206391 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601827839 192355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77820&oldid=77818 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+998) 10 > 1601828500 69679 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77821&oldid=77820 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+524) 10 < 1601829013 936370 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1601829269 981259 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601831153 65908 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1601832702 466921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77822&oldid=77821 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+1731) 10/* Libraries */ > 1601834207 412897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Winkula 5* 10New user account > 1601834451 466506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77823&oldid=77798 5* 03Winkula 5* (+201) 10winkula introduces himself > 1601834581 75752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BIT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77824&oldid=30442 5* 03Winkula 5* (+80) 10added link to unofficial BIT interpreter > 1601834612 64345 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asm2bf14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77825&oldid=77272 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+127) 10 < 1601836312 152026 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601836424 876474 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1601838149 944146 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601838155 492770 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601838178 935998 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601838695 471528 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1601840827 11601 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1601840966 714690 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601842313 201811 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1601846497 612087 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CogitoErgoCode 5* 10New user account < 1601847699 63433 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601850402 581370 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601850423 897629 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601850640 857727 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1601850807 985051 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601852000 410763 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1601856234 183951 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION contemplates doing things that are esoteric-related again < 1601856961 900928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1601865138 408502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Scratcher 5* 10New user account < 1601865652 791368 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601865923 865721 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1601870546 614853 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601870575 815464 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1601871139 387276 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1601872555 517784 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc PRIVMSG #esoteric :been so long though. what even to do... < 1601872639 116229 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :join me in shaving the steps off of this RAM ruleset. < 1601876537 351334 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there standard TeX fonts for unslanted lowercase Greek alphabets? < 1601876565 387419 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would probably be easy enough to make such fonts, but I want to know if there are standard ones.) < 1601877316 815414 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be as part of whatever packages people use to type Greek < 1601877549 497806 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but I meant for mathematical typesetting, not for writing Greek words. < 1601882050 363822 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1601883008 729983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601885319 508345 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601885463 810520 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601886134 889786 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601886463 967135 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601886592 421159 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1601889429 404790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77826&oldid=77591 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+41) 1033! > 1601889917 671598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77827&oldid=77826 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+63) 10I am also playing around with TPT! < 1601891348 35729 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601891487 163407 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601891487 380120 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1601897286 665645 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Babel14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77828 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (+2598) 10Created page with "'''Babel''' is an esolang currently developed by [[User:Sinthorion|Sinthorion]], in which the source code may only contain the lowercase letters, whitespace, commas and period..." < 1601900099 988599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601900749 719336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SoicBR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77829 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+109) 10Created page with "User:SoicBR is a hobbyst programmer and game developer. He created the A.R.T.I.C.L.E. programming language." < 1601901419 159067 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601901436 808179 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1601904002 868067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77830&oldid=77823 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+168) 10 > 1601904877 653549 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77831 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+9191) 10Created page with "A.R.T.I.C.L.E. is an esoteric programming language created in 5/10/2020 by [[User:SoicBR]] A.R.T.I.C.L.E. stands for: Apple Random Tower Island Cat Lol Elephant In A.R.T..." > 1601905485 395170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77832&oldid=77831 5* 03SoicBR 5* (-68) 10/* Phrases */ > 1601905500 245721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77833&oldid=77832 5* 03SoicBR 5* (-46) 10/* Phrases */ > 1601905805 634184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77834&oldid=77833 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+91) 10/* Phrases */ > 1601905878 246758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77835&oldid=77834 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+0) 10 > 1601906365 947303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77836&oldid=77835 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+91) 10 > 1601906526 863489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77837&oldid=77637 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+1496) 10/* Implementations */ > 1601906725 239859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77838&oldid=77837 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+0) 10/* Implementations */ < 1601906991 661382 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1601907003 819342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77839&oldid=77789 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+1824) 10 < 1601908199 10766 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1601908274 906773 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SoicBR14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77840&oldid=77829 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+28) 10 > 1601910232 742601 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77841&oldid=77836 5* 03SoicBR 5* (-4) 10/* The accumulator(A) */ < 1601910233 916933 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1601911326 214142 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :Frankenstein < 1601914294 993734 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601917213 876064 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601918500 802712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1216 < 1601918502 697697 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1601919124 156333 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks HackEso < 1601919126 749694 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, HackEso. ThackEso. < 1601919550 645088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thacky. < 1601920567 39614 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-94-254-162-43.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric > 1601921688 1384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072DFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77842&oldid=77757 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+4) 10linkify > 1601921745 984187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77843&oldid=77767 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2) 10linkify < 1601921913 635978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( hmm, bash problem: Wait for a child process that the shell didn't spawn itself. Currently that's the last thing I want to do so I can do exec perl -e "waitpid($PID,0)"... ) < 1601922560 595528 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1601924067 803862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the shell didn't spawn it, how is it a child of the shell? < 1601924264 34633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, guess it could have been spawned by the process that exec'd the shell. < 1601924376 173009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the shell ptraced it. < 1601924440 62891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, ptrace has a bug where it makes epoll_wait (but not poll etc.) fail with EINTR. < 1601924465 291427 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601924517 241743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day I ran into a program where that was actually a problem (it wasn't restarting on EINTR). < 1601924528 576387 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601924586 722183 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601925827 75220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's spawned by the process that execs the shell. < 1601925891 334958 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using clone() with too many flags, so doing *that* in the shell is hardly an option. < 1601926222 222607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the thing exec a shell? < 1601926230 915191 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm lazy < 1601926285 742272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more convenient to write a dozen of shell commands than to figure out their C equivalent. < 1601926326 917972 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is playing with namespaces < 1601926492 7707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I why do I have to explain why on #esoteric :P < 1601926533 417340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I have to explain why you have to explain why on #esoteric? < 1601926541 101307 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know I'm guilty of asking why too.) < 1601926660 838623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing about ptrace is, as far as I can tell, you have to be willing to get unknown pids from wait() < 1601926681 997089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a process might fork and then you might get an event from the child before you get a fork event from the parent. < 1601926707 915768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, fork, what an esoteric bit of nonsense that's in every Unix system. < 1601926778 156990 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a really clever hack though < 1601926933 549562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, not really. firstly, you only start to automatically ptrace child processes if you set the PTRACE_O_TRACEFORK option, which I think isn't default; second you can listen to PTRACE_EVENT_FORK, PTRACE_EVENT_VFORK, PTRACE_EVENT_CLONE messages to find out about those children, without having to decode every system call < 1601926966 348830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, it's true, I meant only if you set TRACE{FORK,CLONE,VFORK} < 1601926991 190968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might get the wait results before the PTRACE_EVENT telling you about the new pid. < 1601927039 36713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could avoid waitpid(-1) and only give it specific pids that you know about, but that doesn't seem great. < 1601927049 25213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but waiting for arbitrary pids with waitpid or wait4 is usually the default anyway, unless perhaps you use some "fun" combination of threading and signals to find out about the pids. < 1601927085 948916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you have just one thread, you might as well call waitpid or wait4 with pid=-1, since you have to handle every wait notification sooner or later anyway < 1601927093 503255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at worst you store the data for later < 1601927174 219560 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting for a specific pid is a shortcut only for very simple programs, and doing a ptrace more or less excludes that < 1601927181 217481 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1601927199 119256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it means you have to handle unknown pids, as far as I can tell. < 1601927234 654441 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are my notes about using ptrace: https://shachaf.net/tmp/ptrace-notes.txt < 1601927259 892666 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1601927295 543595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect to use ptrace directly, it's usually best to leave that to debuggers or strace < 1601927316 876833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program which is like a mini-strace. < 1601927342 152570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1601928464 421987 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if i should switch to qwerty < 1601928565 578594 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what < 1601928633 801453 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak < 1601928641 113849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: depends on what kind of text you usually type < 1601928658 194499 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the key caps are different from what they do < 1601928668 990356 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs on my computre are sometimes not acting right because of it < 1601928686 553473 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even switch between them for those programs < 1601928753 98044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried dvorak for a few weeks, but decided I don't want it < 1601928763 729357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might still experiment with some nonstandard layouts some time in the future < 1601928780 324913 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do have caps lock for switching < 1601928856 71135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keycaps shouldn't matter. just don't look at the keycaps, and perhaps put a layout poster on the wall for a few weeks while you get used to it so you can reference it quickly < 1601928868 334604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a dead-tree poster to learn dvorak < 1601928968 60304 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been using dvorak for many years but i think the keycaps do matter < 1601929094 757215 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1601929165 13511 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use system call emulation to avoid the bug with epoll_wait? (Better would be to fix the bug in the kernel, if it can, though, I suppose) < 1601929223 942110 :mich181189_!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehoiuwryofuqygtm JOIN :#esoteric < 1601929296 487847 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :keycaps don't really matter < 1601929308 257951 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think many programs are designed to be used with qwerty, although in many cases you can customize the key bindings anyways < 1601929458 978099 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1601929552 792925 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggzkrvdtyabfmsyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1601929555 386331 :mich181189_!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehoiuwryofuqygtm NICK :mich181189 < 1601930034 539610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: keycaps matter for the rare keys, like printscreen, I always get confused where that one is; and for learning < 1601930053 682869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :keycaps also matter if you have one of these stupid keyboards that just rearranges the normal layout for no reason < 1601930060 664078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just don't want to buy those < 1601930097 54314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, the classic example for that is wordstar, it's definitely designed for qwerty < 1601930542 652279 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and some other DOS programs are designed to use keys similar to Wordstar too < 1601931734 57829 :unrooted!~unrooted@user-94-254-162-43.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601934081 17125 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601934115 158775 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601934141 5281 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601934711 29819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Turbo Pascal IDE ) < 1601936395 512812 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eiyktghegavpjkto QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601936515 88640 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnodviuydqdnbssz JOIN :#esoteric < 1601936660 992836 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601936853 539308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1601937252 510066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apt installed Free Pascal the other day. < 1601937267 235210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the classic Turbo Pascal look. It's great. < 1601937272 277207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Pascal is just a good language? < 1601937905 42327 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1601938551 676356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does it try to have features like in Scala, C# etc.? I tend to associate Pascal and Delphi with something which is not comfortable to code in because of a squareish type system, lack of closures etc.. I heard Delphi has risen from the earth but I hope Free Pascal would be even better. If it has cool fuctional features surely I’m going to read about it more in the future! < 1601938572 263163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1601938578 701527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want most of the features in Scala. < 1601938670 90432 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I used a dead-tree poster to learn dvorak => have you felt it a useful system? < 1601938710 89697 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type with two index fingers and even can do so blind when the keyboard don’t changes its location too much < 1601938745 37570 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I tried dvorak for a few weeks, but decided I don't want it => ah, sorry, didn’t read that in time < 1601938828 145037 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don’t know Scala’s features to the full extent so maybe it was a bad example language, yep < 1601938844 313342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use it instead of C, for example? < 1601938870 474528 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t changes => oof grammar why don’t you love me < 1601938897 654168 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Scala definitely no, or are you about Free pascal? < 1601938908 74591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Pascal. < 1601938978 94298 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I’ll second you on that. If it allows that I would have a big benefit from learning it, to write small self-contained cross-platform utility programs at least < 1601939037 192553 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I don’t want to touch C even when it’s definitely simpler than C++ and maybe even has less strange quirks > 1601939077 83351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77844&oldid=77841 5* 03SoicBR 5* (-2) 10/* The Stack */ < 1601939084 447646 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if today’s Pascal not strong enough then I’ll try to live without both < 1601939232 340896 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Night < 1601939363 981707 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601940266 986695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I found that it might be useful for English, but I had to type text in Hungarian too, and it doesn't work well for that. the design of dvorak is based on two things: common letters on easy to reach positions, and vowels on one hand while common consonants on the other so you alternate your hands most of the time. you could designe something based on that for Hungarian, but it would have to < 1601940272 968744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look different from dvorak. < 1601940289 547146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know at least one person who uses a close variant of dvorak for Hungarian too though. < 1601940342 111192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type with nine or ten fingers, except if I need to type when I'm eating with my left hand, in which case I type with all five fingers of my right hand. < 1601940361 172547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rarely, all five fingers of my right hand plus my left pinky < 1601940649 221279 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :M:tG stuff: so apparently there are three 3/2 creatures for 1G without drawbacks. The first one was Terrain Elemental from Kaladesh, a vanilla; then Kraul Harpooner from Guilds of Ravnica; and now Tajuru Paragon from Zendikar Rising, which is an Elf Warrior. This is the last nail on Elvish Warrior's coffin. < 1601943962 338744 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601943999 243021 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1601949088 315810 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor, poor elvish warrior < 1601952731 26234 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601954659 746377 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1601954845 543450 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601957005 945095 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601957056 906981 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601964301 420694 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601964302 19523 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601964302 123107 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601964302 332729 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601964302 332769 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601964312 473865 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601964315 945247 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1601964612 911732 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601964612 911785 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1601964612 911793 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601966404 335629 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SCREAMCODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77845&oldid=77814 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+411) 10Add TBI link > 1601966599 52104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SCREAMCODE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77846&oldid=77845 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+14) 10Links at top of page < 1601970954 506247 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601971732 708894 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601971883 772904 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601972603 597985 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601972640 571692 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 JOIN :#esoteric > 1601972768 98729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77847&oldid=75428 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+36) 10 < 1601977525 924804 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601977915 994770 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601977922 279885 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601977996 967186 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601978319 211684 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was playing around with your solitaire game again. I still can't wrap my head around all the parts. < 1601978339 986037 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember asking if prompt requires that what you give it is a GADT, in order for it to be correct by construction. < 1601978355 931525 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the answer is "no", because you can always make a GADT that just behaves like a plain ADT anyway. < 1601978487 993194 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to hunt to find out what "|" in a type class definition means, apparently it introduces a "functional dependency", which seems straightforward, at least on the surface, but maybe it's far more powerful than its most common use cases suggest < 1601978797 273949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this thing? < 1601978860 175341 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/MonadPrompt-1.0.0.5/docs/Control-Monad-Prompt.html < 1601978893 714776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that one. < 1601978912 893427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is the question about the Prompt part or the type class part? < 1601978943 100499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FunctionalDependencies are famously tricky in some cases, but this particular use is used by all the monad type classes, like MonadState. < 1601978988 467807 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can construct a monad very simply with prompt, by putting all of its effects as terms in a GADT, like the following example:" -- my question is basically, does it have to be a GADT? < 1601979054 895472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be anything. < 1601979087 129577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prompt f is a monad for any type constructor f. < 1601979115 610872 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I vaguely remember going over this now. < 1601979135 340000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, "GADT" means a particular syntax, but everything written with the GADT can also be written without, using a couple of extensions (existential quantifiers and type equality). < 1601979152 333662 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just that GADTs are really useful for this sort of application, is why they're mentioned specifically? < 1601979154 893140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And in fact GHC represents GADTs as if you'd written them as regular data types with those features.) < 1601979335 161426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what this solitaire context is, but I usually think of this Prompt thing as being Free (Coyoneda f). < 1601979366 54083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they CPS-encode it too, so there are three mostly orthogonal layers to untangle here. < 1601980394 233435 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1601980404 570628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you have data Free f a = Leaf a | Branch (f (Free f a)), which is the free monad on a functor f, and also a kind of tree with f-shaped branches. < 1601980437 102087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have Coyoneda f a = exists x. (x, x -> f a), which is the free (or cofree? Free, I think) functor on a type constructor. < 1601980479 830995 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601980488 256230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you combine them you get data Prompt f a = Leaf a | forall x. Branch x (x -> f (Prompt f a)) < 1601980522 79938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you Church-or-whatever-encode that you get the type in that file. < 1601981565 863723 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601982151 802657 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601983073 123844 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1601983939 457836 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of propaganda against functional dependencies ever since type families entered the arena. < 1601984002 88974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also worth noting that MonadPrompt is so old that type families didn't exist. < 1601984021 419143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think.) < 1601984067 118600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the propaganda has been there since before type families. < 1601984087 910242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway people tried type families for mtl and no one used it, right? < 1601984146 451006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think because MonadState s m => ...s... is better than MonadState m => ...(StateType m)..., or something. < 1601984220 558010 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601984238 527650 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot how’s the weather? < 1601984238 672503 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: john, it appears we have reached an impasse make a man feel totally justified in sporting an unnecessarily elaborate assortment of game setup. he's usually got a lot < 1601984238 855170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I think in the particular case that is a single associated type family, fundeps are more convenient. < 1601984260 29979 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ukparl < 1601984260 180369 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) < 1601984314 35944 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! type families are cool in all their kinds < 1601984521 527314 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I say? Propaganda. < 1601984958 974478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll need to read the logs it seems :D < 1601985059 901749 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how could one live a plentiful life without type families < 1601985115 420495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I try to write something typing-nontrivial in usual languages I constantly stumble on their absense < 1601985203 223807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll never appreciate the elegance and frugality of a fundep life, I suppose. < 1601985212 63143 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how often do you actually write something typing-nontrivial? < 1601985230 192139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing shellscripts right now. < 1601985234 589332 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :next question! < 1601985244 633908 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that all of fundeps and type families and data families are available, but I don't actually use them all that often < 1601985248 776104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, negations < 1601985279 146478 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still kind of agree with the sentiment. < 1601985289 136704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd :) < 1601985334 940510 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I use Eigen to do numeric computations with vectors and matrixes, and it involves what would require rather complicated types if it was written in a typed language < 1601985356 802253 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: But I imagine an Enterprise Haskell developer will *have* to deal with advanced type system features like type families, constraints a lot simply because many libraries adopt them. < 1601985425 986839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think "Enterprise Haskell" is an established term, but I believe we have long reached the point where it has become applicable.) < 1601985444 727707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or how about "Myopic Haskell" for lens-centric code. < 1601985447 16736 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eigen involves a lot of rather weird magic by the way, and you actually have to be careful with it because it's easy to misuse accidentally < 1601985487 58647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played with Eigen once and it wasn't easy to coerce it into doing what I wanted. < 1601985602 832402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though my problem wasn't correctness, it was to avoid allocations (through template instantiations) and get the compiler to elide some arithmetic that had no effect. I forgot the details, as usual.) < 1601985792 427382 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most tricky part is that if you build it multiple times with different instruction set extensions targeted by the compiler options (most commonly one for AVX and one for SSE2), the different copies can be binary incompatible with each other, unless you define the internal representation explicitly with preprocessor macros. < 1601985809 494677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You'll never appreciate the elegance and frugality of a fundep life, I suppose. => fundeps are okay I guess. I wrote with them a bit < 1601985839 697900 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is partly documented in http://eigen.tuxfamily.org/dox/TopicPreprocessorDirectives.html but not all details are documented well. < 1601985880 284395 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus you can sometimes get errors if you use certain older Eigen versions with certain compilers. < 1601985884 854771 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but how often do you actually write something typing-nontrivial? => yes. I mean, I usually find a way to interesting typing questions to perfectly bland code, or maybe not perfectly bland < 1601985943 83676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Am I the only one who has been intimidated by `lens` for years and never touched it as a result?) < 1601986119 143550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, there are fables about its great looming height, and personally I used lens once when tried to make a simple Scheme-like interpreter and I was glad for a bunch of operators there, but I never knew all of lens and now I forgot even those bits < 1601986167 994328 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I want basic lens functionality in mainstream languages, again. They start adopting immutable data but don’t include “immutable setters” and ways to compose all that < 1601986274 805426 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think basic `lens` usage is not hard to achieve, but maybe newer lens libraries give even easier life? I haven’t used them; is there a comparison somewhere, from a user’s practical standpoint? < 1601986742 675622 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "basic lens functionality" stuff like map and reduce? < 1601986771 74421 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many mainstream languages already have stuff like that < 1601988303 122707 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1601988933 835399 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601989573 481338 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601989590 911679 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601989781 796801 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1601989833 538237 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made an incorrect change to my program, and suddenly I was getting weird errors from later down the line < 1601989877 384219 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nondeterministic ones > 1601991089 254806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77848&oldid=77771 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+196) 10/* Discord account */ new section > 1601991409 65360 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77849&oldid=77799 5* 03JWinslow23 5* (+13) 10Added Poetic < 1601992128 995172 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1601992315 199176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601992388 291651 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601993367 709849 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My latest compiler project (in Haskell) has stalled because it is clear that it will need to generate better error messages; and in order to do that it will need to keep track of some context, i.e. the current function; and in order to do that it will need to do something more sophisticated than just use the Either monad everywhere. < 1601993390 970177 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use a monad transformer. I don't want to do that. < 1601993455 198387 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want to do < 1601993473 990078 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could maybe use applicative functors; compose a writer applicative with a may-fail applicative. I'd kind of like to do that, but it would mean re-writing all the monadic code I've written so far. < 1601993543 222161 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could "roll my own monad" with MonadPrompt (or Operational or Free), which is why I was talking about it this morning. < 1601993594 317429 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaning towards the latter. < 1601993701 748791 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow your heart! < 1601994007 576578 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601994040 941018 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601995335 885264 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601996389 223452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1601996435 537022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Usually, when your heart is in front of you, things have gone seriously wrong.) < 1601996714 694291 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwhahaha. "There is no NAT with IPv6." < 1601997251 78657 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1601997324 815569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: a random person on the internet who felt confident enough to answer a question on serverfault (stackexchange)) < 1601997421 849546 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1601997440 94842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: an optimist. < 1601997477 657024 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically, you don't _need_ NAT with ipv6 < 1601997486 914987 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601998463 679111 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine > 1601998662 509351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Computerdeutsch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77850&oldid=76633 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+0) 10 < 1601998802 29808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked into NAT with IPv6 briefly, when I had an ISP that just assigned a single /64 for non-business subscribers as their "native IPv6 support". Instead, I think I ended up with something even weirder, like proxy neighbor discovery to claim the addresses. But it was pretty awkward to need separate IPv4 network segments (since there was just the one public IPv4 address) while IPv6 was flat. > 1601998817 921933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Computerdeutsch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77851&oldid=77850 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+4) 10 > 1601998904 684946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EWagon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77852&oldid=76629 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (-10) 10 < 1601998944 781069 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately the next two ISPs did assign a /48 (I think) and a /56, respectively. < 1601998995 734291 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't a /64 enough? < 1601999024 736625 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's big enough to subdivide, it's larger than the whole ipv4 space, isn't it? < 1601999032 154431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't subdivide a /64. < 1601999037 940358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you're not supposed to, anyway. < 1601999053 323803 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the standard autoconfiguration won't work for segments smaller than /64. < 1601999074 631211 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1601999088 677357 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why you nated multiple segments into that? < 1601999155 157936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further, they didn't really "assign a /64" in the sense that they'd route all traffic for a /64 to you, they just expected to learn about all hosts in a /64 via neighbor discovery. < 1601999208 186671 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1601999248 569933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I looked into NAT because that way it'd at least have been the exact same setup for IPv4 and IPv6 (the router connected to the ISP gets a public address, the LAN uses private addresses, and NAT takes care of allowing other machines to access the public Internet). < 1601999248 679072 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never configured ipv6, I don't know how this works < 1601999283 487971 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you count "leave everything as defaults and hope the computer and the router figures out something when they talk to each other" or "disable ipv6 on an interface" as configuring ipv6 < 1601999387 26392 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601999550 581666 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1601999567 579240 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did that work? < 1601999606 357970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If memory serves, it did. But this was 6 years and three ISPs ago. < 1601999629 658779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current setup I have uses DHCPv6 prefix delegation, which I understand has become relatively common for "consumer" applications. The router is given a prefix (typically a /56), and can then allocate a /64 (or more) for any network(s) it wants to have, and let the final address assignment happen either via stateless (neighbor discovery + router advertisement) or stateful (DHCPv6) autoconfiguration. < 1601999808 362220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, actually... now that I've said that, I went to check, and after the most recent reboot, the router actually *hasn't* gotten an IPv6 address at all. Hmm. < 1601999865 792151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, up until now it's been working fine, and I'm sure it'd still do if I wasn't masochistic enough to run a bleeding-edge OpenWRT just because the kind of software you get otherwise is depressing. < 1602000015 577167 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602000152 745847 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means you don't have ipv6 connection to the internet? < 1602000254 321148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I didn't even notice. < 1602000377 736825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that probably also explains why the HTTP black-box monitoring I've set up for esolangs.org has been reporting the site as down. (Didn't prioritize looking into that because it seemed to be working fine.) < 1602000951 803812 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe > 1602001112 296398 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03WhyNot? 5* 10New user account > 1602001181 50683 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77853&oldid=77830 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+31) 10 > 1602001286 811234 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WhyNot?14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77854 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+22) 10Created page with " print('Hello World!')" < 1602001438 638491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://paste.debian.net/1166119/ <-- see anything odd? :-) < 1602001502 18260 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there are suspiciously too few processes. other than that, no. < 1602001517 406919 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I usually use ps -H intead of pstree < 1602001523 387098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: look at the name of PID 1 < 1602001544 652026 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that just means someone started the machine in single user < 1602001565 333789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I guess that would do it. < 1602001581 325312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would also explain the lack of services :) < 1602001601 157978 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1602001639 81897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is still me playing with containers. The bash will be there, but the ultimate goal is to do some initialization and then hand things off to a proper init. < 1602001652 165757 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1602001702 609910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also, with sshd running this is already pretty usable. < 1602001730 344246 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm somewhat elated for once. Bbl. < 1602001987 190444 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602002064 810770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` pstree -p | paste < 1602002066 62957 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.21095 < 1602002136 39600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, well, "init" is a pretty boring name for PID 1. < 1602002153 397082 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, is that perl running the rnooodl script? < 1602002159 745542 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that script but I'm too lazy to fix it < 1602002218 232122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, guess so. And the cat(49) is the cat that makes the output not a terminal. < 1602002299 650835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't *that* many processes in the container one level up either, though a bit more than in int-e's example: http://ix.io/2zUQ < 1602002407 554891 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602002710 173990 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1602005078 416500 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh JOIN :#esoteric < 1602005397 329211 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602005532 389372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602006449 436361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, socat can fork children? hmm. < 1602006501 601903 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh TOPIC #esoteric : < 1602006515 606470 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the multinational league for esoteric programming proliferation, protection, and protestation! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D https://github.com/kspalaiologos/esologs/ < 1602006535 363493 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1602006540 852064 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that may be easier than what I'm currently doing for lambdabot) < 1602006676 530087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries... as long as the gist of it and the links to the logs and wiki are preserved and you don't spam the topic, noone will complain. > 1602006891 423735 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orangeyy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77855&oldid=76628 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (-26) 10 < 1602007041 492548 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what happened to the zem.fi hill for BF Joust? < 1602007238 232104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602007269 585060 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602007613 651415 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602009007 33670 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Computerdeutsch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77856&oldid=77851 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (+212) 10 > 1602012300 530274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Filth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77857&oldid=77554 5* 03Bananaapple 5* (-4) 10optimized examples < 1602013634 3741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602013776 493944 :TheLie!~TheLie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1602013913 591914 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1602014011 644274 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77858&oldid=77848 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+135) 10/* Discord account */ < 1602014095 733098 :TheLie!~TheLie@business-24-134-17-157.pool2.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1602017465 784586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77859&oldid=77858 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+82) 10 > 1602017480 198205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77860&oldid=77859 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+113) 10 < 1602021165 715601 :Frankenstein!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers NICK :Frankenlime < 1602021269 380851 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602021300 827009 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602021324 315516 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602022599 645306 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:SoicBR14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77861 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+2) 10Created page with "a." > 1602022852 178310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:SoicBR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77862&oldid=77861 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+54) 10/* A new topic */ new section > 1602022871 535320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:SoicBR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77863&oldid=77862 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+113) 10 < 1602022949 872159 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602023416 87995 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602024218 231690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The canonical multibot runner script is: while true; do socat TCP4:irc.freenode.net:6667 EXEC:'./multibot '"$NAME"' '"$CHANNEL"' '"$NAME"'.log'; done < 1602024356 342566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: upone reflection it's not applicable. My use of socat is for enabling SSL for lambdabot. < 1602024363 961675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, could not figure out the IPv6 connectivity issues. If I restart the DHCPv6 client, it starts sending solicitations on the interface, but gets no response. Monitoring suggests problems started at 3:40am in the morning, which doesn't coincide with anything I did. Complained to ISP; will see if they come up with anything other than "have you tried restarting your router?".) < 1602024376 320896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But lambdabot wants to connect to some port somewhere, so socat is just a proxy. < 1602024434 873729 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had mysterious neighbour discovery problems with lambdabot's host < 1602024507 41111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ended up just adding a permanent neighbour because I never figured out whether the environment was misbehaving, or the local linux kernel. < 1602024533 125928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at that, I also have a fixed default route. < 1602024564 885794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do a static config but I think they actually require the DHCPv6 prefix delegation in order to actually start the traffic flowing. < 1602024589 420345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this one (Ramnode) doesn't. < 1602024603 124216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a VPS. < 1602024613 401213 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has a fixed IP and all that. < 1602024620 121138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's kind of different than someone's home. < 1602024636 509441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I do in fact have a fixed IP, paying £5/month extra for it. < 1602024654 365498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a completely different problem :) But what you said brought up some memories. < 1602024658 297861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think I need to dynamically request my static IP. ;) < 1602024681 859686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's dialup, the neighbours might not be fixed? < 1602024693 908951 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for DSL they might be. < 1602024696 114458 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tricky :) < 1602024725 353519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm. Well, it's an Ethernet hole in the wall as far as I'm concerned, I've no idea what happens to it after that. < 1602024750 712133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some managed switch shouting it's proprietary management protocols over the wire every now and then. < 1602024788 318958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, it could be something ND-related, because if I look at any IPv6 traffic, I do see neighbor discovery requests for my router's link-local address, every time repeated three times. My router sends a reply to each, but it doesn't seem to matter. < 1602024822 304940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally I'd blame my nftables setup, but I haven't touched it in a while. < 1602027116 418857 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEH. foiled by default configuration. < 1602027170 968476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Debian's Apache ships with Alias /icons/ "/usr/share/apache2/icons/" enabled.) > 1602031297 549631 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:SoicBR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77864&oldid=77863 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+75) 10/* A new topic */ > 1602031675 87371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:SoicBR14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77865&oldid=77864 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+28) 10/* A new topic */ < 1602032183 549040 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602034571 856901 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602035256 585716 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602035538 888917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( pstree -up; netstat -nap ) < 1602035689 171280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me netstat's obsolete and it's all about ss now. < 1602035828 646345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me that old habits die hard. < 1602035886 154417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah those lines get long < 1602035934 343434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do ss -nap if you want to. < 1602036032 651746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lotta chrome's and 443's. < 1602036105 322889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graph on http://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html is great. And sad. < 1602036558 742518 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1602038617 439895 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602038756 832227 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your link sidetracked me to go read about that Wikimedia stuff. < 1602040028 511562 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602044286 535248 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602051258 590459 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1602051258 736409 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602051278 823033 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1602051330 772209 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602057455 542522 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602057622 387171 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602058112 715638 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602058210 159677 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602058223 848500 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602058292 432620 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602058766 592770 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't "basic lens functionality" stuff like map and reduce? => sorry, didn’t see that. I meant composable lenses first and foremost, and non-destructive setters as their part, and a good syntax to go with that < 1602058871 21514 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: (BTW does the prefixed version of the name ping you when you use the usual one?) < 1602060366 893651 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602064324 739180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, wib_jonas pings me if I am b_jonsa < 1602064328 515219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I am b_jonas < 1602064579 740438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and does ipv4 dhcp get you an ip address that works? < 1602064634 758214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, I learned about ss too when I was trying to get a certain information from the kernel from debugging and netstat couldn't do it and I asked on irc. apparently ss is to netstat like ip is to ifconfig < 1602064675 111057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :user3456: ask fizzie < 1602065624 707136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, IPv4 DHCP works. > 1602065714 818077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:RocketRace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77866&oldid=77719 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+143) 10YYZ < 1602065727 571880 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602067211 811599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and are you actually paying for ipv6 connectivity in the service, or was that just an experimental free test service that they now changed to offering for extra charge (I know it makes no sense, but some ISPs do charge money for it) < 1602067493 748146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not paying for it specifically. The support page says "we're currently in the process of rolling out IPv6 to all our customers free of charge" (unchanged for at least a couple years); the rollout in this location happened sometime in 2018, but I guess it might still be considered experimental. < 1602067515 43433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1602067872 549080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :user3456: What happened was, it was all done in Ruby, and the linear algebra lib I was using to do the math (for scores) just died. I started doing a rewrite (in some other language) to re-launch it on esolangs.org instead, but never got around to finishing it. Hasn't been much demand for BF Joust, honestly; even in the past, it's been *very* seasonal. < 1602067926 264441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear algebra? < 1602067934 83258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it need linear algebra < 1602067942 94665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do understand ruby programs breaking regardless though < 1602067986 663206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did a lot of incompatible changes between minor versions so you would have to keep updating old scripts from 1.4 to 1.6, 1.6 to 1.8, 1.8 to 1.9, 1.9 to 2.1, etc < 1602068120 795876 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.3 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602068269 687025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't *really* need it, but some of the scoring algorithms (especially the "Markov scoring") are marginally easier to express like that (details at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ still). < 1602068539 357015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1602068560 525062 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602068579 892915 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1602068633 747290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The rewrite was going to be integrated to the `esowiki` bot for convenience, but I got sort of sidetracked into writing a RPC scheme because I didn't want any instability in the BF Joust parts potentially messing up the more important task of channel logging.) < 1602070626 494943 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602071722 487234 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got an integer sequence that's not in the OEIS but I'm not yet 100% sure it's well-defined < 1602071779 840658 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we take the even Fibonacci numbers, this can be done as 0 => 0, 1 => 2, n + 2 => 4 * (n + 1) + n < 1602071805 190914 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci numbers that are a multiple of 3, 0 => 0, 1 => 3, n + 2 => 7 * (n + 1) - n < 1602071829 688847 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiples of 4, 0 => 0, 1 => 8, n + 2 => 18 * (n + 1) - n < 1602071850 48476 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sequence is the coefficient of (n + 1) there < 1602071862 7086 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it goes 1, 4, 7, 18, 11, 322, 47 < 1602071975 122215 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it n+2? < 1602071993 334188 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's in terms of the two preceeding elements < 1602072061 803847 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might want to fix your notation then because my brain mentally simplifies the first line to n + 2 => 5 * n + 4 < 1602072077 909374 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my notation there is awful < 1602072145 205987 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it continues 18, 422, 1364 < 1602072176 327330 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably should verify your relations actually work as well < 1602072324 577580 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602074038 75964 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jgpwacvnnsobwreq QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602074047 59227 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zlrlvvucgdxsavkq QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602074053 638420 :wmww11!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fictjxvqgdtzlofg QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602074588 446337 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nlnefirjujlgtqsw JOIN :#esoteric > 1602074784 832413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07It's 3D!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77867 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+88) 10Created page with "== It's 3D! == This is a coding language based of [Befunge]. It is created by [WhyNot?]" > 1602074899 93471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07It's 3D!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77868&oldid=77867 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (-11) 10 > 1602074927 515054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07It's 3D!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77869&oldid=77868 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+5) 10 > 1602075661 55759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07It's 3D!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77870&oldid=77869 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+368) 10 < 1602075840 378980 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075840 544457 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075840 737923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075841 52980 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075841 160481 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075841 266660 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602075850 459210 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1602075867 204754 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1602075950 829964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07It's 3D!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77871&oldid=77870 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+150) 10 < 1602076163 682518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076163 682573 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076163 682581 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076163 682602 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076280 891204 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiyxxywvqrhrlwzu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076287 5321 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nvjyzqcbttqjsdfi JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076854 43977 :brrrrrrrrrrrr!05ba7412@5.186.116.18.cgn.fibianet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1602076871 748717 :brrrrrrrrrrrr!05ba7412@5.186.116.18.cgn.fibianet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat is dis < 1602076944 724579 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome brrrrrrrrrrrr < 1602076947 132338 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :brrrrrrrrrrrr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1602077001 38347 :orangey!ae3bc1fd@c-174-59-193-253.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602077017 795488 :brrrrrrrrrrrr!05ba7412@5.186.116.18.cgn.fibianet.dk PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1602077027 468208 :brrrrrrrrrrrr!05ba7412@5.186.116.18.cgn.fibianet.dk NICK :lignus < 1602077189 771450 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nvjyzqcbttqjsdfi NICK :Discordian[m] < 1602077937 509158 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602078058 774866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm we need a xenharmonic esolang, aren’t we? < 1602078073 738525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I’m still not too deep in < 1602078295 312995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use comma puns and depending what commas are punned, different actions may be performed. Loops may be represented as cyclical chord progressions?.. < 1602078321 55865 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they should be valid from some standpoint < 1602080113 703091 :lignus!05ba7412@5.186.116.18.cgn.fibianet.dk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602080861 238732 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602082711 673351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you pun with a comma? How do you pun, with a comma? < 1602082826 182405 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602083163 149953 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602083180 829204 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1602084342 902567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77872&oldid=77849 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+15) 10 < 1602084343 901303 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602087422 174762 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602088858 792763 :orangey!ae3bc1fd@c-174-59-193-253.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602088875 991781 :orangey!ae3bc1fd@c-174-59-193-253.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602091138 852197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: almost exactly like that, yeah: the comma is there but it’s not there modulo temperament. Smaller the comma better the pun works. Famous zero-width comma is punned in many works < 1602091548 68978 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602092924 656425 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1602097403 432073 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602098272 695681 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602100413 902257 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602101136 846227 :orangey!ae3bc1fd@c-174-59-193-253.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602102614 974096 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602102691 168010 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602102705 18673 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1602102715 649237 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1602102785 313617 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602102815 434768 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric > 1602103447 996766 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Conveyer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77873&oldid=77695 5* 03Abbin21 5* (-3) 10 > 1602104484 620765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Konfetti 5* 10New user account < 1602107545 57406 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602107609 91872 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602107636 519751 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602108321 31212 :V!v@anomalous.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602108391 246565 :V!v@anomalous.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602108405 443299 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602108467 563258 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric > 1602109676 590382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Vpzom 5* 10New user account < 1602109805 865897 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602110841 911262 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1602112220 46334 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602112237 95404 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602112261 961669 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1602112278 392951 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602112292 237234 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602112298 249429 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1602113881 817161 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602114338 742275 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602116078 397966 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is the rationale for renewing SSL certifcates twice a day (certbot default) < 1602116125 96617 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave up on certbot because it was always confusing and never worked for me < 1602116143 150580 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not normally a fan of tools made out of shellscripts but dehydrated works so great, especially with dns auth < 1602116183 383655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It doesn't renew twice a day. Or it shouldn't, anyway. < 1602116198 231887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It *runs* twice a day, but only renews when there's less than 30 days remaining. < 1602116212 57528 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Hmm. < 1602116226 562312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that makes more sense. < 1602116257 487954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankenlime: I've used acme-tiny before. < 1602116271 124261 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme-tiny seemed nice < 1602116294 475273 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used acme.sh at work too and its not terrible (although only used it for web auth) < 1602116338 4720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I only need web auth anyway, so far. < 1602116382 778450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using `certbot certonly --config ... --force-renewal` to basically just use certbot as a plain client (with DNS auth), it seems to work. < 1602116423 348753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this time I decided to experience the hammer that is certbot. < 1602116450 130801 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :see certonly and renew (or run?) differences always confused me < 1602116459 93698 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :although to be fair i do get confused easily < 1602116508 630842 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks. < 1602116523 741899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIUI, the 'certonly' part means "just do the stuff related to acquiring certificates, don't try to touch the servers that use the certificate", which is what I want out of it. < 1602116534 228213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It won't have permissions to do any other actions anyway.) < 1602116539 338072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only looked at the systemd timer and jumped to conclusions. < 1602116553 577323 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1602116554 228579 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, i got it all working in ansible and haven't bothered touching it since < 1602117541 584897 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602119628 381584 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1602121989 40697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77874&oldid=77853 5* 03Vpzom 5* (+72) 10 > 1602122317 847323 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Four14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77875 5* 03Vpzom 5* (+2759) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Four |paradigms=[[:Category:Functional paradigm|Functional]] |author=[[user:Vpzom|vpzom]] |majorimpl=https://git.vpzom.click/vpzom/four |files=...." > 1602122471 781750 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Four14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77876&oldid=77875 5* 03Vpzom 5* (+30) 10 < 1602123453 103494 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1602124154 814385 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602124436 887870 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602126431 543495 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602127836 394886 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602133239 939354 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602133447 562942 :spruit11!~unknown@86.82.44.193 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602135921 985059 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602137766 555363 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602137987 17414 :lignus!c1219483@193.33.148.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602138275 85975 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602138930 283893 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiyxxywvqrhrlwzu QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602138942 275423 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nlnefirjujlgtqsw QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602138946 107475 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nvjyzqcbttqjsdfi QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602139456 24919 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xysbefdultvkpnah JOIN :#esoteric < 1602139978 920501 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602140965 285592 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nccotfayvqcthcii JOIN :#esoteric < 1602140971 445848 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-npsqkpnahstroizz JOIN :#esoteric < 1602141333 38658 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602141531 271465 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602141801 47863 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-npsqkpnahstroizz NICK :Discordian[m] < 1602142382 578707 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602142382 811281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602142382 945540 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602142382 945616 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602142407 973504 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602142713 541122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602142713 541172 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1602142713 541180 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602144000 214789 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602144059 453773 :lignus!c1219483@193.33.148.131 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602144514 826130 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602144643 817482 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1602144714 896643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:RubenVerg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77877 5* 03RubenVerg 5* (+6) 10Created page with "hello!" < 1602149154 74306 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kqyovfdcbjptkkuq QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602149314 538126 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfhkxxflhnjauuaj JOIN :#esoteric < 1602149427 28277 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602151634 477983 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602151917 248307 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1602152394 580919 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a theorem that for every positive natural, n, the Fibonacci sequence contains infinitely many integer multiples of n? < 1602153295 524217 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number says "If the members of the Fibonacci sequence are taken mod n, the resulting sequence is periodic with period at most 6n." -- is that equivalent? < 1602153360 356117 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not quite equivalent, because every 6th positive natural != every positive natural < 1602153382 78663 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closest I could find on that page though < 1602153400 261108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that F_0 = 0 is divisible by n. So together with periodicity modulo n you get what you want. < 1602153494 610010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen that 6n claim before, interesting. < 1602153597 215577 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, simply saying "periodic" doesn't imply that F_i mod n = 0 at any time, so far as I'm aware, so, I'm not so sure < 1602153638 449943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Periodicity is rather obvious though; there are n^2 possible pairs of consecutive remainders in the sequence, so it's ultimately periodic. But you can also reconstruct the whole sequence from any pair (computing F_n from F_(n+1) and F_(n+2)), so it's fully periodic < 1602153670 122948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i=0 works. < 1602153886 430623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the related fact that F_n | F_(nk) for all integers n, k. < 1602153894 440540 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah OK, I see how F_0 = 0 implies it F_i mod n = 0 for some i, if it's periodic < 1602153963 124315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I followed that periodicity argument, why does having n^2 possible pairs of consecutive remainders mean it's ultimately periodic? < 1602154045 296779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because you can look at the sequence of pairs FF_n = (F_n, F_(n+1)) and note that there's a relation FF_(n+1) = f(FF_n), to which the standard argument applies. < 1602154074 392282 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f((x,y)) = (y,x+y) < 1602154113 883382 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and f is invertible over any ring) < 1602154165 877008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the 6n bound is interesting, because from that idea, you only get an n^2 bound. < 1602154478 294334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "standard element" is that by the pigeon-hole principle, *some* element must repeat, and from that point onward, all the elements must repeat because that single element determines all its successors.) < 1602154526 137583 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, if f() is invertible, the predecessors as well, giving full periodicity rather than just ultimate periodicity.) < 1602156102 827964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a clever use of the Frobenius automorphism. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisano_period#Properties near the end of the section.) < 1602156430 366840 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that is the main reason why we don't get near the naive n^2 bound) < 1602156654 875415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any prime p providing a counterexample would necessarily be a Wall-Sun-Sun prime, and such primes are also conjectured not to exist." < 1602156657 835735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In number theory, a Wall–Sun–Sun prime or Fibonacci–Wieferich prime is a certain kind of prime number which is conjectured to exist, although none are known." < 1602156666 600648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: Wikipedia :-) < 1602156960 904356 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not actually a contradiction, if there really are two different mathematicians making two different conjecturs on the existence of these things < 1602156967 470579 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, it does seem a bit unlikely < 1602157960 325971 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I think I now see why MonadPrompt and Operational use GADTs. < 1602157987 958835 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>=) < 1602157989 501725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1602158160 686276 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GADT gives you an existential type that can be used for b. If you don't have that, you don't have anything you can use for b. < 1602158273 340982 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That I can see.) < 1602158498 382665 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmaybe you could put both a and b in the ADT, like data Program instr a b = ...; I've tried it but I haven't been successful at it, and the error messages aren't very encouraging. < 1602158503 339702 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if you have a constructor of type a -> Foo b in your GADT, then that corresponds to a monadic operation a -> m b. < 1602158740 37950 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a weird existential data F g x = F (forall a. (g a, a -> x)) type that a GADT g into a functor F g that can be used for making a free monad. < 1602158767 780360 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll need to check out how Free works at some point too I reckon. < 1602158773 784295 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess is nicer in theory, but as a programmer, I find the GADT describing an interface very appealing. < 1602158776 419518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean with forall outside the F? < 1602158787 642232 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: Lunch < 1602158793 401184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Uhm. Yes. < 1602158808 658215 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've used GADT syntax :P < 1602158824 909575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that type is pretty natural. < 1602158831 566336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, in the non-formal sense of the word. < 1602158855 532518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, properly: data F g x = forall a. F (g a) (a -> x) < 1602158878 781901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. Or Coyoneda f a = exists x. (f x, x -> a) < 1602158881 921994 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, properly: data F g a = forall r. F (g r) (r -> a) -- hmm Cont-style naming seems better. < 1602158907 818549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to call the universal one r (for "return" or "result" or something) and the existential one x. < 1602158916 292996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for sure the one on the outside should be called a. < 1602158917 613435 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nope, I don't find it natural at all. < 1602158942 996886 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But r is a result type here as well :P < 1602158961 92478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, imagine you had a type for which fmap was very expensive, so you wanted to minimize fmaps. < 1602158985 985964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The functor laws tell you that instead of fmap f (fmap g x), you can write fmap (f.g) x < 1602158994 708493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I've seen that. < 1602159003 566405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe I'm just saying obvious things here. < 1602159031 557661 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a far stretch from having seen something, and kind of understanding it, to finding it natural. < 1602159049 533539 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alternative thing you can say is that this thing is the free functor on a type constructor, but I bet that wouldn't strike a chord with you. < 1602159063 100573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're making it worse. < 1602159069 298652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured. < 1602159089 380692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use the dual: newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda (forall r. (a -> r) -> f r) < 1602159116 848974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I find that one less intuitive, just because CPSy things are more complicated. < 1602159127 505090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I deal with category theory is to translate it back to something more concrete. < 1602159162 65116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The deeper you go into category theory, the more work I have to do translating it back. At some point, I get lost. :P < 1602159180 132307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not saying any category theory words here. Except for "free", I suppose, and "dual", and "Yoneda". < 1602159184 147737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can just ignore those. < 1602159196 472939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, half of what I'm saying is category theory words. < 1602159216 783096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, say CPS instead of Yoneda transform, and I'll be a bit happier. < 1602159235 489779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not calling it a Yoneda transform, I just wanted a name for the type that isn't F. < 1602160108 721846 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm mixing up terms. < 1602160134 873513 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even unhappy about it :P < 1602160204 491697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1602160205 583432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 081153Z 28007KT 10SM OVC012 17/12 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP132 T01670122 10167 20161 56004 < 1602160272 447085 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602162196 140816 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602162500 432147 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mmmmmmaybe you could put both a and b in the ADT, like data Program instr a b = ...; <-- I think I actually got this to work! < 1602162675 650932 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602162691 792460 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602162725 263516 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the instructions have to "return" the same type. The type of `singleton` becomes `instr b -> Program instr b b` < 1602162841 526379 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602163048 710331 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exciting! I'm not sure why, but it is. To me. < 1602163139 107498 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602163234 760406 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/cpressey/2ed6aea0c8eb4fc98a5a56e574807721 < 1602163922 750903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now `a` is baked into the type, so this is inflexible. < 1602163967 303679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty close to doing this though: https://paste.debian.net/1166344/ < 1602164007 993354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1602164103 638032 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe you're coming from the other direction. I have not read very far into the backlog. < 1602164478 189422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: If you want to take the GADTs out of operational, you will probably end up with a free monad anyway. The functor is data StackF cnt = Push cnt | Pop Int (Int -> cnt) which can be obtained from unfolding the GADT data StackG a where Push :: Int -> StackG () | Pop :: StackG Int into Coyoneda StackG a. < 1602164572 341902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also using that morally, cnt ~= () -> cnt) < 1602164644 413159 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as a programmer, StackF isn't intuitive to me, whereas StackG reads like a signature for a DSL. < 1602164657 697828 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the GADT version much better. < 1602164735 245123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with what you currently have is that there can only ever be a single return type, namely the `a` in Program f a b. < 1602164759 376716 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: We have different goals. < 1602165889 886496 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602166950 365561 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric > 1602167879 678759 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:WhyNot?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77878&oldid=77854 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+84) 10 < 1602170303 874463 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602170479 530068 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602171610 967759 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602172116 564096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77879&oldid=77874 5* 03Konfetti 5* (+134) 10 > 1602172141 443610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:RubE On Conveyor Belts/Interpreter14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77880 5* 03Eiim 5* (+685) 10Added two questions > 1602172180 315809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RubE On Conveyor Belts14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77881&oldid=64380 5* 03Eiim 5* (+4) 10noted that interpreter is C++. > 1602172448 162891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:RubE On Conveyor Belts/Interpreter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77882&oldid=77880 5* 03Eiim 5* (+267) 10noted program.out > 1602172590 455499 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Hell6914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77883 5* 03Konfetti 5* (+411) 10Created page with "I think the example is incorrect. 0x41 * 0x69 = 0x1AA9, while 0x41 * 0x45 (which is decimal 69) = 0x1185. I am not sure which version is intended by the creator. The result i..." < 1602172841 843232 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602173158 878284 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602173376 319548 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602173390 882937 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602173456 671500 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602173733 220974 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602173872 224429 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602173922 179089 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602174089 103845 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602175995 616061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Eiim14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77884 5* 03Eiim 5* (+150) 10Created User:Eiim > 1602176715 626510 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77885&oldid=76908 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+313) 10Added a well-earned snippet! < 1602177161 125746 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602177755 647147 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602178322 57960 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602179633 585979 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602179777 280429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602181685 271248 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1602182147 584859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602182328 731747 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602182683 656596 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602182693 203117 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602182711 619391 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602182745 265337 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1602182769 918179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77886&oldid=77827 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+350) 10School update. < 1602182776 310583 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602183830 884909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602187046 847177 :int-e!~noone@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602187062 149028 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602187236 429586 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602187525 125318 :DrSoy!~ss@2a02:8071:bba:3900::5d7a JOIN :#esoteric < 1602187533 498500 :DrSoy!~ss@2a02:8071:bba:3900::5d7a PART :#esoteric < 1602191813 489574 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602191889 87939 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602191899 12183 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602193454 206537 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602194711 133349 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602195587 572370 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602195934 826106 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602196511 681027 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602198188 976108 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602198206 178147 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1602201099 353998 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602201198 684980 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to construct a specific combinator in Underload, but I'm falling short. Any wizards know how to construct s' where s':(x)(y)(z) -> x(z)(y(z))? < 1602201227 432200 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey look a message! (And sorry I don't know Underload) < 1602201235 685490 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ais523: I've found a 3 command simple translation of Underload. < 1602201238 19162 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1602201240 371847 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1602201267 694321 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry accidently pressed my keypad while opening my blinds < 1602201272 984088 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all good < 1602201289 871432 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602201465 243218 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602201489 515926 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1602201495 549035 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602201772 843783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (x)(y)(z)a~a*:^~a*~^!a~a**S < 1602201772 988499 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :x(z)(y(z)) < 1602201781 28139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not sure if I interpreted the notation correctly.) < 1602201781 874235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, you were fast < 1602201829 471227 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks fizzie! < 1602201920 629209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (y)(z)a~a*:^~a* < 1602201925 163906 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (y)(z)a~a*:^~a*S < 1602201925 163938 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :y(z) < 1602201949 824892 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ix.io/2A9t -- with steps. < 1602202005 188673 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think my notation is backwards. I meant for x to be on top of the stack, not on the bottom < 1602202015 725936 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch, not writing out the outer parenthesis < 1602202036 876959 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess a better way of asking my question would be (z)(y)(x) -> ((z)y)(z)x < 1602202069 436309 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: ok that's slightly harder < 1602202081 909862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the problem with stacks, you never know which way around they are. < 1602202084 853921 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I thought it was hard < 1602202086 592036 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can still compile lambda calculus to underload < 1602202103 109863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, though at least in underload they're always the way you took it < 1602202109 972010 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in Consumer Society too) < 1602202152 363859 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discovered today that there is a single concatenative combinator that is TC with quoting, a la iota in applicative combinator calculus < 1602202166 22749 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to document it properly as a minimization of underload < 1602202219 107378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: the concatenative thing is a generalization of combinator calculus, isn't it, so that should be true because combinator calculus has a single universal combinator too < 1602202358 312198 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'd have to think about that. I'm not sure how obviously true it is, but I suspected it was true and went searching. It's actually really close to the construction of iota: let k be (y)(x) -> x, s' be (z)(y)(x) -> ((z)y)(z)x, then the sole sufficient combinator takes (x) -> (k)(s')x < 1602202375 27143 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a slightly adapted s combinator < 1602202383 391135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: it's not obvious at all < 1602202385 986810 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither part is obvious < 1602202395 794178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't wrap my head around how underload works < 1602202410 555170 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly think of it as a term rewriting system < 1602202414 420444 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that easier to think about < 1602202425 415065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the single generator for combinator calculus, I never bothered to try to understand that, it seems like a useless bit of trivia to me, hh < 1602202435 993566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think other people have verified it because it's not that hard with a computer these days < 1602202449 510101 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a minor fetish for minimization, so I spend a lot of time thinking about reducing these sorts of things < 1602202461 684156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This starts from a slightly different place: < 1602202462 595805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((z)a(y)a(x)a)^**:^!~a~*a~^~!~a~**S < 1602202462 595848 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :((z)y)(z)x < 1602202527 660603 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks fizzie! < 1602202814 176297 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way I can make this fish code smaller while keeping the string readable? (The \n is a newline, the code was testing on fishlanguage.com) 10"Stick any string here!"r.\n l?!;o < 1602202851 361395 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602202996 525304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: but the basic recipe is this. you want to do something with (x0)(x1)...(xn) on stack. first apply () ~a~* ... ~a~* ~a~* on it to fold it to one term ((x0)(x1)...(xn)); then L: duplicate or triplicate that with : or ::; then get a single term like (xk) from the top copy with like ^!...! ~!~!...~!~!; then possibly flip and get a single term from the middle one; then do one step of whatever you < 1602203002 579041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanted; then fold the result back into the bottom list with a*; then keep repeating this from L until you have every term you need separated inside one long list. < 1602203017 10724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's of course a lot of optimizations you can do on this. < 1602203081 249387 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602203159 195747 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602203227 301624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)a~a~*~a~*:^!~a~*a~^~!~a~**S(just for completeness) < 1602203227 301678 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :((z)y)(z)x < 1602203322 89343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're still quite fast in this < 1602203462 136917 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for your help friends. < 1602203471 719950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's impressive that there's only one colon in that < 1602203490 169957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's not inside parenthesis) < 1602203570 669130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)a~a*~a*:^a~*a~!~^a~!~**S(now with a little less unnecessary swapping) < 1602203570 776033 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :((z)y)(z)x < 1602203584 713959 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though if it's just ONE colon then it doesn't help if it's inside parens. it only helps if there are two.) < 1602203652 334458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602203671 839888 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1602203688 557123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally "write this combinator in Underload" is pretty straightforward if you know what you want the result to look like < 1602203697 177888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done mechanically, if necessary < 1602203706 438593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you can do it in your head, that's the hard part < 1602203715 339406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have read tom7's very apt description of git and the world around it, right? < 1602203730 902661 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, I need to spend a little more time with Underload < 1602203738 207203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no < 1602203749 474605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand enough about git to use it, and I still think it's a very good description < 1602203762 174026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: let me try this; the problem is to define C such that (z)(y)(x)C is equivalent to ((z)y)(z)x, right? < 1602203773 905701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: frontpage of http://radar.spacebar.org/ right now < 1602203779 871118 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Correct < 1602203791 851455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :permalink: http://radar.spacebar.org/f/a/weblog/comment/1/1185 < 1602203795 156651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ouch, that's unreadably narrow, and I don't get a reaer mode option < 1602203824 333312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: go complain to tom7 then < 1602203828 773230 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you are calling C I am calling S' in line with the notation used in "The theory of concatenative combinators" by Brent Kirby < 1602203841 759559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this site uses tables for layout < 1602203873 174943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and specifies widths as an exact number of pixels < 1602203898 49493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's a blog that has existed continuously since 2000, with a new post every month, and tom7 just rewrote the script that serves it in a second programming language, where both of them are programming languages that he made himself < 1602203947 503294 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically rewrote it to a newer, incompatible evolution of his own scripting language < 1602204012 555238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1602204019 166777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same scripting language that implements http://snoot.org/ < 1602204112 874886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem with git is that it solves a problem in a very simple, elegant, and straightforward way, but unfortunately it isn't the problem that git users actually wanted it to solve < 1602204205 725198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the table was 546 wide, specified in a plain HTML attribute, no CSS, since 2000 apparently: view-source:https://web.archive.org/web/20001018141700/http://radar.spacebar.org/ < 1602204271 98994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~a:(~*a)~a*^)~a*^*S < 1602204271 99073 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(z)x < 1602204292 401455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I done wrong, I wonder? (that was my first attempt done in my head, no helper programs) < 1602204297 562660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nothing < 1602204299 455216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~a:(~*a)~a*^)~a*^*SS < 1602204299 562067 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(z)x((z)y) < 1602204307 764183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just didn't print out the stack properly < 1602204332 606890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think I have one level of quoting too much < 1602204356 303152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~a:(~*)~a*^)~a*^ < 1602204365 133820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~a:(~*)~a*^)~a*^SSS < 1602204365 133867 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :x(z)(z)y < 1602204374 414059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that looks right < 1602204378 709610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~a:(~*)~a*^)~a*^aSaSaS < 1602204378 816086 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)((z))((z)y) < 1602204384 138749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: there you go < 1602204429 875120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, (z) is still quoted too much < 1602204434 907353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. in particular, what I want solved is much closer to what svn solves than what git solves. an svn repository explicitly tracks what files in earlier versions are ancestors of a file, and which changes from a branch are merged into it and which aren't, even if I merge later changes from a branch but not merge earlier ones. git stores some of this and guesses about the rest heuristically, and < 1602204440 220225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~:(a~*)~a*^)~a*^aSaSaS < 1602204440 220265 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)(z)((z)y) < 1602204440 926365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no easy way to make it remember what I think instead of what it guesses. < 1602204449 648893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(x)(~:(a~*)~a*^)~a*^^ < 1602204449 648942 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1602204462 631874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x in orby's example wasn't in parens, so that runs it < 1602204466 750671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (z)(y)(SS)(~:(a~*)~a*^)~a*^^ < 1602204466 750718 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :z(z)y < 1602204471 913525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and svn also does partial checkouts or partial read-only replication. < 1602204540 162715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's frustrating, I have ideas about how to write a VCS but am unlikely to actually write it < 1602204549 947634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'd like is the best of svn but distributed. I should probably learn how the heck mercurial works. I think mercurial is probably better than git in some respects, worse in others, it won't solve all my problems, but at least I could learn something from it about version control. < 1602204578 556534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I don't like about Mercurial is that branches are expensive < 1602204588 152829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, me too. I'd like to write one that's based on svn, but makes it a distributed version control system. I might try to write something like it, but it won't be working stable enough. < 1602204618 631260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of svn's features, like consecutive revision numbers, seem somewhat incompatible with typical DVCS usage patterns < 1602204627 721066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. svn does everything that it wants to do inexpensively, but sadly there are a few things that it really doesn't want to do, and those are expensive because you have to work them around. < 1602204643 223277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me about my eso-idea of a git hash bruteforcer < 1602204658 219417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the short hashes given to commits were in consecutive numerical order (possibly in decimal rather than hex) < 1602204670 72357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the first revision is 0000001, the second is 0000002, and so on < 1602204687 200105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck :) < 1602204687 646398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out that there actually isn't much you can change to make the hash match, apart from the commit message < 1602204708 261716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could mess with the whitespace < 1602204770 139481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that just means that referring to stuff with version numbers won't be such a good idea anymore. that's not a problem. some web forums (of at least three different engines) have the same problem: in theory they number messages within a thread with consecutive numbers, so people sometimes refer to them by number in replies, but in practice moderation can cause new messages to appear with < 1602204776 193496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :older timestamps or older messages to disappear, such as when messages are moved among threads, in which case those numbers aren't stable, and the replies will be confusing. < 1602204818 437530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mod on a phpBB forum and I will normally edit messages down rather than delete them, for this reason < 1602204826 133732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically this happens on at least one wordpress blog's comment section, most phpbb forums, and http://www.komal.hu/forum which has its own engine < 1602204830 787608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if the content is inappropriate and needs to be removed) < 1602204831 854473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mess with the committer name ;-) < 1602204839 201037 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602204856 760568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This message violates site rules and was deleted. — callforjudgement < 1602204867 506978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but what do you do with messages that are unnecessarily posted to a new thread even though there's a good existing thread for them? < 1602204879 713883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid deleting, but how do you avoid adding? < 1602204884 704465 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you quote it in a new message? < 1602204898 808695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a message needs to be repeated elsewhere, yes, quote < 1602204921 316258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of this forum is pretty specialised, though, and messages being posted in the wrong place are very rare < 1602204941 403157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were, it would likely be a case of either nothing needing to be done, or a near-banworthy offence, depending on context < 1602204948 183636 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602204956 969497 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602204977 309116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"git hash bruteforcer" => well yes, using SHA-1 and saying that it's ok because you'll only commit trustable data into the vcs rather than admitting that it's hard to change the hash function is a stupid decision, and using only 7 hexits is another stupid decision, but at least the latter isn't baked into git so I don't care > 1602204993 173381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77887&oldid=75326 5* 03Orby 5* (+1159) 10Introducing Sea: a three command simple translation of Underload < 1602205014 19894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the 7 nybble thing is actually not a requirement, it will expand to 8 (and possibly more?) in cases of collision < 1602205019 898524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the nybbles are stored internally < 1602205034 78801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I know < 1602205066 261937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I even have core.abbrev=16 in my global git settings < 1602205074 487611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it list 16 hexits by default < 1602205082 582516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still not all of the hash, but better than 8 < 1602205087 709065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some purposes I make it list all the hexits < 1602205098 554420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when it needn't be human-readable, but stored for machines < 1602205103 480839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you say "hexit" rather than "nybble"? hmm, maybe people wouldn't refer to a base-256 digit as a "byte" < 1602205106 64660 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :git does that in its internal stuff too obviously, it's not that stupid < 1602205115 995169 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can be nybble too, sure < 1602205139 700972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexit is the text format numeral, nybble is the actual number < 1602205166 811459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, an idea I had recently: using algebraic numbers as the internal numerical type for a language < 1602205178 251748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "A" is a hexit (except in git which uses lower case, another thing I hate, but at least it's consistent with the rest of the kernel, which also uses lowercase in a lot of debug messages and /proc and /sys text files), 0xA is a nybble < 1602205196 86237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's actually rather hard to implement < 1602205210 782668 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other choices for esoteric number systems that are easier to implement < 1602205215 308132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be particularly good for declarative languages: if all you have is + - * ÷ ==, everything is fully closed except for division by 0 (which in a declarative language is not an error) < 1602205227 416651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem ridiculously hard to implement, just inefficient < 1602205247 905876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if you don't implement < or rootof, then it's much easier < 1602205253 288202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it's much harder to use for anything useful < 1602205261 916139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't get one of the square roots in any way < 1602205262 909421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootof effectively exists within this set of operations < 1602205271 949274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess you could mess with the commit message and disguise it... say, have every commit message end in a weather forecast and a fortune. < 1602205284 850812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a declarative language, you just need to assign, say, X * X = 2 and then X is set to one of the square roots of 2 < 1602205289 294826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can only get all the roots of a polynomial nondeterministically, and you can't distingiush among algebraic conjugates < 1602205304 201657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't even distinguish between sqrt(2) and sqrt(-2) < 1602205304 731308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can't get at any specific root < 1602205311 824763 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the formats look rather rigid. < 1602205312 874932 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume you have 1 as a built-in too, right? < 1602205320 641312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a good thing, of course. < 1602205331 981227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can distinguish between sqrt(2) and sqrt(-2), the former obeys X * X = 2, the latter doesn't < 1602205334 564080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... oh heck < 1602205339 193039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't distinguish between sqrt(2) and -sqrt(2), though < 1602205342 235171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, sorry, that < 1602205356 816871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm assuming that tree objects must contain entries in byte-based lexicographic order) < 1602205365 409689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you want to generate 1 from some polynomial equations or something, that's possible < 1602205365 735700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, you can't just store numbers as an entire set of conjugates < 1602205372 559839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because say you have X * X = 2 and Y * Y = 2 < 1602205385 820740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then X + Y could nondeterministically be either 0 or sqrt(8) < 1602205387 225950 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :later all < 1602205391 183221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are not conjugate to each other < 1602205393 681149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orby: later < 1602205471 13362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and that's why you want to have < and <= and rootof as primitives too, where rootof takes a polynomial and an interval, and it returns one of the real roots of the polynomial in that interval. < 1602205506 633003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't actually need rootof as a primitive in a declarative language, if you have < and arithmetic < 1602205517 818181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just assign to an equation < 1602205537 480481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess in a declarative language you don't need it < 1602205546 451376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the interpreter has to implement it < 1602205574 349656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not rootof that's hard to impelement, it's < < 1602205586 545045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1602205593 439142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, < isn't even very well defined < 1602205600 327077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1602205603 451780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex numbers < 1602205605 770889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1602205611 646081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some sort of norm< < 1602205612 333834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider only real numbers < 1602205622 371907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it isn't algebraically closed any more < 1602205641 113000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want complex numbers, then add real part as a primitive too, and < should compare by real part first then imaginary part < 1602205658 106608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be algebraically closed < 1602205665 727002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can simulate complex numbers from real numbers in user space < 1602205676 529159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if you have rootof, not just powers < 1602205699 278517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex numbers aren't really harder, they just complicate everything < 1602205707 653733 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or simplify, depending on which side you're looking form < 1602205708 233003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of using algebraic numbers, if they don't give you an algebraically closed number system? < 1602205723 134590 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicate if you have to implement stuff, simplify if you want to use it < 1602205733 15248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess you're right < 1602205736 983130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so complexes < 1602205743 526241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you probably want real part as a primitive too < 1602205753 723744 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess i < 1602205759 658037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can distinguish between +i and -i < 1602205766 898116 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < might do that anyway < 1602205770 557658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over the reals you have tools for counting roots in an interval. < 1602205777 299540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1602205777 512969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do that in the complex numbers? < 1602205785 672270 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's probably tools for that oo < 1602205787 291049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say, is there an equivalent for complex numbers? < 1602205789 752996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just less elegant < 1602205797 505002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure root isolation in the complex numbers exists < 1602205803 878636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably < 1602205816 256103 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :real numbers just have a nice elegant algorithm < 1602205820 600212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, elegant in theory < 1602205825 986380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a hell to work with < 1602205837 725538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has an article on real-root isolation but not complex-root isolation < 1602205842 926454 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've followed one algebraic number development where root separation was a reason for keeping algebraic numbers real. < 1602205890 195599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And deal with complex numbers as pairs of real algebraic numbers.) < 1602205895 334474 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's because nobody wants to actually implement it in full generality, or even describe it properly in writing. we know it's possible, and Mathematica implements it, let's leave it at that and let the Maxima fanatics deal with it. < 1602205964 80838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course what I'm alluding to was a formalization effort... so there was also a strong incentive to keep things (relatively) simple. < 1602206011 415779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know a simple algorithm for deciding if an expression that contains field ops, real square roots, and real cube roots is negative. < 1602206026 352307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without cube roots I do know an algorithm that I can explain < 1602206078 92151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with cube roots, you would need to work with algebraic numbers nonsense like finding a generator polynomial or something. the practical solution is to ask GAP and let it work its magic. < 1602206105 617602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the practical solution is to decide using interval arithmetic, but if it's zero, then ask GAP to prove it and let it work its magic < 1602206150 12386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me < 1602206163 796463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does any of you happen to have a backup of Plouffe's inverter? it fell off the web < 1602206174 856454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need it for anything urgent, it would just be nice to have a backup < 1602206196 570989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old address was https://isc.carma.newcastle.edu.au/ < 1602206421 593518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, branches being expensive is one of those things that kept me away from mercurial < 1602206448 10834 :orby!a2d2c09f@162.210.192.159 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602206482 967592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can tell why svn+distributed is hard to make work, but it's not the sequential version numbers < 1602206537 326990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the model I imagine there's still a good way to refer to a specific revision, or a file or directory in a revision. < 1602206640 426194 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you found https://oeis.org/wiki/Plouffe's_Inverter (and the reference to ISC+, which is also down, but points to ISC, which is working but presumably far less powerful) < 1602206708 646086 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the theoretical problem is more like that some operations that I'd expect an ideal distributed vcs should implement efficiently would be implemented rather inefficiently (as in they'd have to rebuild the entire repository); the practical problem is that if I try to code this, it will either never be complete, or it will have so many bugs that can lose you data that the gaps are larger than the features. < 1602206729 785913 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I actually haven't looked there < 1602206736 409860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :git was originally intended to be a VCS backend, rather than a VCS < 1602206745 180932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised there aren't more VCSes that use it like that < 1602206811 39324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it works quite well as a vcs for the special case of developing the linux kernel, which indeed wants to send patches in email, has lots of distributed developers cherry-picking commits from each other, and puts only trusted text source files in the repository < 1602206828 474292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is actually very bad at cherry-picks < 1602206838 7341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't work as a backend for what I want, because it doesn't implement modifyable sparse checkouts < 1602206856 994106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherry-pick from A into B followed by merge from A into B is an operation that git's model simply doesn't implement < 1602206861 73177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, svn is better. but it works in the principled environment of linux kernel environment < 1602206869 327865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often works in practice, but only due to hacks designed to merge two identical-looking changes into one < 1602206895 408935 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's sort of what I said above about not storing merge metadata < 1602206967 333451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should also consider the historical context as an excuse though: git is old, svn only started to get merge tracking in the time that I remember, git had the hacks much before that < 1602206999 785501 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically svn adds merge tracking in svn 1.5, which was released ... when? < 1602207020 5616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a moment, this is exactly something vcs should be able to tell < 1602207043 507111 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :released in 2008 < 1602207088 664072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :back long ago, when svn was not really ready, and the other contenders weren't anywhere, git was revolutionary < 1602207097 94006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just didn't get developed as much as svn later < 1602207098 964474 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also Fossil, where it is stored as a set of artifacts each with identifiers, but I don't know if there are any implementations of the Fossil format other than Fossil itself. < 1602207125 680347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and git was what popularized the concept of distributed version control, mercurial and darcs came after that and took the good parts < 1602207240 914543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercurial and git were developed at almost the same time, for the same reason < 1602207242 51048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I technically used svn in 2008, but not for anything nontrivial, I mostly just checked stuff out < 1602207267 858516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I admit I don't actually know the history, I'm just telling my impressoin < 1602207280 462432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Linux kernel used to use a proprietary VCS < 1602207281 200207 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602207282 47447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know when git gained what features < 1602207299 183282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I heard that, Linus decided to make his own tools, just like Knuth < 1602207303 376260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone working on it reverse-engineered part of its internal protocol, so that they could script it more easily or something < 1602207308 999323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the company making it got mad < 1602207325 625217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was demand for a replacement VCS in a hurry < 1602207331 549887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he wasn't satisifed with the existing tools < 1602207343 835509 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1602207345 800455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much "wasn't satisfied" as "was suddenly banned from using" < 1602207357 675347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, git is better for the Linux kernel than Perforce anyway < 1602207373 191580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1602207382 313631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, Perforce's manufacturers probably rather shot themselves in the foot, by inspiring the creation of a free competitor that has outcompeted them quite badly < 1602207401 513997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux was using BitKeeper, not Perforce. < 1602207428 933505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, they might be laughing at us that they can point to how bad git is and they're offering an alternative to common people that is more down to earth < 1602207441 292705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, OK < 1602207499 276281 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602207779 69733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, apparently BitKeeper ended up as open source < 1602207830 189402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what happened to it after the debalce in question < 1602207855 384030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :different topic. in Spelunky 2, shopkeepers usually have a skeleton key that you can get if you kill them. skeleton keys are reusable and can open any doors that silver keys can open. this makes absolutely no sense in-game, and I think it comes from nethack. in nethack it makes some sort of sense, because it wants shopkeepers to be able to open locked doors. < 1602207886 782161 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think this is a D&D heritage < 1602207913 525387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a spelunky 2? < 1602207916 321983 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1602207918 908675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was released recently < 1602207933 703386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Playstation and Windows Steam < 1602207971 73812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice game, very faithful to Spelunky HD, from its creator, a worthy sequel and good game < 1602207993 949725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw someone on the Internet play Spelunky 2 just recently, and wondered about that. < 1602208007 831190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looked like it had a bit more branching in the sequence of levels or something. < 1602208010 990317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen much of it on twitch. I'm thoroughly spoiled of the known stuff now. < 1602208031 562702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, zone 2 and zone 4 has two alternative biomes that you choose by entering one of the two exits of the last level of the previous zone < 1602208060 712611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zone 2 is either jungle or volcano, zone 4 is either egypt-themed or water + east asia themed < 1602208180 901162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are also optional boss levels that you enter to via secret levels, an optional 7th zone, and SPOILER an optional "infinite" hard postgame area that is quite hard to enter because you need to get there specific artifacts from three zones (in the intended route; you can actually skip one of them but it's harder) < 1602208204 648398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, four specific artifacts, but one you probably alwyas get anyway < 1602208214 856259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other three only has this one use < 1602208230 7768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more complicated < 1602208255 299202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one artifact that lets you into the optional 7th zone, and two that together let you from there to the postgame area < 1602208265 286892 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty nice design < 1602208285 365497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are probably some secrets still not discovered, because the game and especially the Windows release is quite new < 1602208311 842017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even besides this zone stuff, the overall gameplay and movement seems really well thought out, except for one specific common item that many people hate < 1602208362 711776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably write a summary of the worlds at some point < 1602208368 472435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly to me to understand it < 1602208374 643792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a pretty nice design < 1602208400 136983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems surprisingly similar to Spelunky HD, more of an expansion pack than anything < 1602208408 875088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's a good thing that people release those as new versions, though < 1602208409 301881 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with like eleven different biomes (set of map tiles and enemies) < 1602208421 253394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old-fashioned way of doing games has been mostly abandoned nowadays < 1602208440 35840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a new game, but very heavily appeals to the fans of Spelunky HD, so much that good Spelunky players can learn it much easier, because the movement and controls are very similar < 1602208463 386263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many elements are taken from HD too, like many enemies and items and world themes < 1602208529 637720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played the original (not HD) but I'm not all that good at it < 1602208540 530870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'd enjoy it more if it were turn-based, even though it's a platformer < 1602208564 426267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: think of classic game series like Age of Empires, Warcraft, Settlers. new games, but the good parts of design taken, so easier to learn if you know the previous game. < 1602208586 141117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, it's a very old-fashioned way to do a game sequel < 1602208596 207950 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1602208601 242673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays that sort of thing's normally done as DLC rather than a sequel < 1602209131 861040 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602209165 614371 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602209204 871284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, to me the contrast is more like that nowadays games are short-lived and gimmicky, they want to sell a new idea that people find fun for a year or two, or for six years in case of the most successful games, but then put away and stop playing, and the manufacturer stops pretending to care about it; old games tried to make a good stable base that you can play for a much longer time, and if < 1602209210 979041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they succeed, the game becomes a classic that only needs a few tweaks. < 1602209233 461685 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, many computer games made these days are not as good as before (although there are exceptions). < 1602209260 511135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe this is entirely just a false nostalgic view, obviously I don't know about games released in the last two years that have become classics and people have been playing them for decades, < 1602209281 621348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think so much about all the throwaway old games, only the ones that succeeded to become classics. < 1602209357 420793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite possible that Super Mario Odyssey will become one of these classics, and it will be speedran even 15 years from now, together with SM64 and Sunshine < 1602209383 117207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there were many bad games before, too, but people don't remember them as well < 1602209385 603129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas Zelda: Breath of the Wild, which some people hastily declared the best game ever, will be forgotten) < 1602209392 937754 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. < 1602209428 756878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that is true. (And it happens with other works too.) < 1602209630 751840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh by the way, it turns out that the IBM Selectric 1 and 2 really exist, my conspiracy theory that it's war propaganda (or practical joke) spread by Americans about how advanced seemingly impossible technology they had so long ago is false < 1602209702 566701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how many old writings mention these typewriters, but there are so few first-hand observations from contactible people who used the machines back when they were new, and so few remaining examinable copies < 1602209849 109490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how a mechanical typewriter with a single electric motor and no electronics can move that crazy ball-shaped head; how it isn't unusable because the glyphs adjacent on the head to the one you want to stamp leave faint marks; how it has a pure mechnical full lockout mechanism so you can't press two keys at the same time; and how it doesn't even attempt to lay the glyphs on the < 1602209855 133834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball out in such a way that the widest glyphs are close to the equator < 1602209884 145147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even though it almost certainly exists, to me it's similar to washing machines, it exists but it's supposed to be impossible < 1602210049 106043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the last straw against the conspiracy theory is https://www.marklin-users.net/cookee_nz/hobbies/IBM/IBMSelectricAPM-Nov1980.pdf , too detailed, I don't believe it could be faked for a conspiracy < 1602210075 873108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the details mentioned might be misremembered, but overall they're real typewriters < 1602210309 220386 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that some features of Pokemon games are not as good as the previous games. While I agree, this is not specific to Pokemon and occurs with a lot of series. > 1602210657 179605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77888&oldid=71170 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+277) 10Add 5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel to the appropriate lists < 1602210667 691818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: huh, do you not believe in washing machines? < 1602210839 176778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do believe in washing machines, but they're magical, I don't see how they can have the practical effectiveness and reliability that they have as measured by practice, given that we basically know what they have (modulo some secrets that the manufacturers have about recent innovations) < 1602210872 167806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you mean the mainline games like Sword/Shield, or side products like Pokemon Let's Go or Pokemon Go < 1602210922 31981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I use a washing machine and commercial washing detergents, and I'm glad that they work so well (admittedly there's some luck here in that I have a model that works well), but I don't understand why they work so well < 1602210930 460439 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I mean the mainline games; the side products are not separate. < 1602211027 110073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best Pokémon games for replay value are HGSS and B2W2, and BW are best if you are planning to only play through once < 1602211046 578891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by replay value I mostly mean grinding the postgame, rather than playing multiple times < 1602211108 349016 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also some games will improve some things, and make others worse.) < 1602211141 419007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think actually every Pokémon game does this < 1602211161 690664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help that through much of the series' lifetime, Game Freak would create two Pokémon games in parallel < 1602211181 475472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was typically the case that a new feature in one game would disappear in the next, and might then reappear in the game after < 1602211537 108307 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that it is. < 1602211573 653058 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A lot of computer games are just made too easy. That happens with everything though, and often they do not even add a difficulty selection menu. However, there are self-imposed challenges, at least.) < 1602211692 250027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is much more common for computer games to be too easy than too hard < 1602211703 357857 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1602212122 874907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever get a game that starts out very easy and then transitions to nearly impossible with no discernable ramp inbetween? < 1602212128 902965 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that just happening to me < 1602212155 33917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't have a concrete example right now I'm afraid) < 1602212201 925919 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a example either < 1602212336 697353 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps see https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Difficulty_Spike < 1602213167 374853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some games which don't have consistent internal mechanics, they're just a case of "guess what the devs are thinking" < 1602213179 721441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those can have a ramp like that for some players but not others, when they fail to guess < 1602214437 380999 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :BTRider < 1602214442 232200 :BTRider!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602214447 549854 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :s3423 < 1602214453 99333 :s3423!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :frrrrrr < 1602214484 7000 :frrrrrr!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :deltta < 1602214486 143051 :deltta!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602218294 751468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1602226524 620505 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1602228106 796313 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77889&oldid=77885 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+100) 10Clarification > 1602228144 191443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77890&oldid=77889 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10Whole halt < 1602228320 72089 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1602228835 55787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77891&oldid=77890 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+16) 10Clarification > 1602228866 860915 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77892&oldid=77891 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10Capitalization > 1602229279 437380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77893&oldid=77892 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+136) 10Added input storage > 1602229320 665890 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77894&oldid=77893 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10Prulal, no Plural < 1602230902 712657 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602231003 783487 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602231474 593530 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602231754 572761 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602231789 59195 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602231926 967421 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602232388 422217 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602233138 401935 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1602234054 30879 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hate it when someone's explanation of something includes phrases like "It's easy, really" or "You could have invented it yourself". < 1602234968 368587 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602235361 312509 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the one I hate is posts that start like "I am surprised that nobody has mentioned [...]" in a thread with an open-ended question where you could mention a huge amount of examples, when the thread is clearly not trying to be a comprehensive list, and the post is sometimes posted just a few hours after the thread starts. < 1602235468 875371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that phrase is never appropriate, and it's my pet peeve < 1602235739 887907 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic < 1602235898 613245 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602236549 757310 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems TIME CUBE has some roots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubical_atom < 1602236611 249983 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :carthorse & everyone else who wants to : read this doc if you have the time : https://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/taxil_confessed.html < 1602236630 714656 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the freemasonry conspiracy theories of today are based on an ancient troll from 200 years ago < 1602236653 613770 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, moreso ~125 years ago < 1602236658 908711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: of course it has roots! Gene Ray doesn't seem to admit it, but he took the idea of the square earth straight from the Bible, as Roger M. Wilcox explains in http://www.rogermwilcox.com/square_earth.html < 1602236679 35486 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wrong channel < 1602236680 861210 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1602236705 793220 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1602236749 873499 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, this came out well. arseniiv talks about the roots of Time Cube, then delta23 starts to talk about ancient freemason trolls < 1602236860 396013 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo :( < 1602237030 160078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a coincidence < 1602237262 126990 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that square-earthiness proof is more or less neat but what if the true metric is non-euclidean: then square-nonsquare dichotomy is a bit different and there are also four natural corners, null corners (or four natural side midpoints). In fact Earth then can be the “circle” with four corners < 1602237315 157681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two glued circles. still with four corners < 1602237361 329665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall leave this revelation private to this channel < 1602237410 253244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, have you noticed what a troll the First Council of Nicaea was about the date of Easter? It was well known that Christ was crucified on Pesach and resurrected two days after, and the Council agreed with this. < 1602237417 527359 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need an agreed upon univeral method for when to celebrate the crucifiction and the resurrection, so that corrupt local clergy can't be bribed as for what the date is, as was usual in those times. So do we celebrate it on Pesach? No, that would be too simple. < 1602237450 569142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent a completely different rule that's just as hard to implement in practice as the version of the Hebrew calendar used back then, that puts Easter vaguely at the same season as Pesach, and would later be forked to like three or four different modern methods for Easter date in schisms. Now we have two problems. < 1602237714 875163 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the Council of Nicaea decided for certain is that Christians should celebrate Easter on the same day independently of the Hebrew calendar, if I remember correctly < 1602237750 779311 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which calendar? < 1602237767 297601 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the early christians believed in the book of enoch (c. Jude) < 1602237774 409480 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy <-- this covers most of it but there's nothing about the Gregorian calendar for some reason < 1602237778 394464 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to convert to enoch cal next lol < 1602237785 614168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it's ever easy to make a good calendar if it must be tied to both Earth days and (at least one of moon phases or seasons), because if you try to make a mathematically deterministic version, you'll run into problems in a few tens of thousand years just because we can't predict Earth's rotation well enough. < 1602237801 977679 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: enoch cal had that problem < 1602237821 411522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: then who started the habit of Easter always being on Sunday, when Pesach can fall on any of four days of the week? < 1602237896 487484 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "final" Julian calendar Easter computations originated in Alexandria, and according to that WP page the Syriac Christians also celebrated on a Sunday < 1602237905 748234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically both the hebrew calendar and the roman calendar stared as being tied to the actual astronomical stuff, then later they adopted possibly short-sighted mathematically defined methods, just so the calendars can be predicted infinitely far, and they don't care if it will be out of sync with astronomy in a few ten thousand years (or in the case of the Julian calendar, in just a thousand years) < 1602237933 995091 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roman was never tied to astronomical stuff, pre-Julian it was always ad-hoc < 1602237969 729831 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: the Romans did tie it to days and seasons, loosely. it wasn't well-defined enough to follow any rule, like I said about corrupt local clergy. < 1602237982 247297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we should admit why a mathematically deterministic methods can't work for the long term, and not pretend that it's the one deterministic method that will work forever, < 1602238034 925657 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a virtual world which runs on a deterministic calendar < 1602238055 270721 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a couple of people who tried to match leap years to the tropical year by ridiculously long leap cycles, like millions of years < 1602238056 775228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead make the calendar depend on astronomical observations, but no on such a short term as the traditional Hebrew calendar, but predictable for a few thousand years into the future, which would have been good enough for messengers from a central Astronomical authority to get around even in Roman times < 1602238093 444746 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Iranian calendar? < 1602238094 900882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly computers and atomic clocks and GPS make it easier, but it's not like the principle was impossible two hundred years ago < 1602238125 507108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: yes, and those attempts can't work, because we can't predict how long days will last accurately enough < 1602238165 342797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're misguided toys designed by mathematically inclined people who don't understand the astronomical background < 1602238175 630343 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1602238184 665595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas what I say is misguided for political and societal reasons, not for astronomical reasons < 1602238209 115374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bb in a few hours < 1602238215 942824 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who designed the French Republican calendar wanted the year to start on the equinox, but then they found that one equinox was predicted to be 20 seconds before midnight with an error margin in the tens of minutes < 1602238255 37033 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Year 144 of the Republican calendar < 1602238608 103385 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a calendar w/ 10 days in a week < 1602238611 356316 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 weeks per month < 1602238614 737466 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 months per year < 1602238617 538670 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1602238673 973490 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's probably done that already < 1602238717 315931 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Donald Knuth --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potrzebie#System_of_measurement < 1602240649 266389 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602241365 772373 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nccotfayvqcthcii QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602241369 212131 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xysbefdultvkpnah QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602241371 333774 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-npsqkpnahstroizz QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602241829 333539 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602241887 17825 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xowhpcdmrwudbqpq JOIN :#esoteric < 1602242086 994377 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: we only had atomic clocks for fifty years. anything we know about how the length of the day changed before that are lucky accidents, where some ancient civilization left records of astronomical observations of the year, month, eclipses, Venus phases, and these are usable only in the rare case when we can clearly determine how many days < 1602242087 633149 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ago the dates mentioned were, which is often impossible because of the imprecise calendar keeping. < 1602242372 676306 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read the Stephenson/Morrison/Hohenkirk paper? > 1602242457 740597 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ThisIsTheFoxe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77895&oldid=70128 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+1) 10typo < 1602242570 168426 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hohenkerk < 1602242957 163237 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602243242 553084 :deltaepsilon23_!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243266 269402 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602243266 621876 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602243266 740760 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602243266 843817 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602243266 843858 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602243269 81174 :deltaepsilon23_!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :deltaepsilon23 < 1602243280 56552 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602243285 92572 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243352 223855 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-samogjnbcdqczjhs JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243358 933087 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rzgzeitheqknxyvg JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243614 44472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243614 44528 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243614 44536 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602243638 1344 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/417/4/2714/1095659 <-- if you want a laugh < 1602243778 603179 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: sorry, that's not the sort of topic I can really laugh about, even if I can see the parody. It's more like sad that we got there. < 1602243810 612127 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well < 1602243843 144380 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally am selling my skills of solving problems the traditional way, by translating common sense rules to a computer program, rather than trying to use machine learning to divine rules from examples. < 1602243893 840143 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I find the hype of trying to apply machine learning (and before that, GPU computations, and before that, multithreading, and before that, just in time compiling) even in cases when it makes the problems harder rather sad. < 1602243975 830640 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to learn enough about all those hyped methods to know when they're useful and when you should ask an expert in those topics, which is a lucky case because they're a dime a dozen now, with every college course trying to teach those fashionable topics only and getting rid of more useful research departments that try to make publications without < 1602243976 364402 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding today's marketing keywords. < 1602243994 66678 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2016.0404 <-- anyway, here's the paper I mentioned earlier < 1602244059 921793 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead I just understand enough of both mathematics and programming, but only the basics of both, and this combination is apparently rare enough to be worth something as a job skill, despite that it's a natural pairing. < 1602244092 123944 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602244116 645675 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_; yes, that's the good article, I have seen that one < 1602244287 848283 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rzgzeitheqknxyvg NICK :Discordian[m] < 1602244575 7450 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably ramble on for calendar-related topics about some time < 1602244826 349279 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like calendar reform < 1602244920 175045 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: have you read these first? https://www.tondering.dk/claus/calendar.html http://www.quadibloc.com/science/calint.htm < 1602244941 860801 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several times < 1602244957 986252 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1602244970 9085 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a third one somewhere but I forgot < 1602245010 705847 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/calendar-reform.html <-- this, perhaps? < 1602245012 88301 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then of course http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/calendar.html because I can't have a discussion without pointint out that David Madore already wrote a long writeup about it < 1602245040 789056 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: no, I don't think I recall that one, thanks for the link < 1602245093 431496 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wasn't there something from David Madore about the hebrew calendar too? < 1602245119 349315 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/calendar.html <-- this? < 1602245134 967522 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that page doesn't really cover Hebrew < 1602245264 48168 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it doesn't look like he wrote anything comprehensive about it, he only mentions it in passing a few times, calling it the Jewish Calendar < 1602245387 336647 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hebrewcalendar.tripod.com <-- feel free to save this then < 1602245480 216039 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice, thanks < 1602245646 329394 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in exchange David wrote about the underlying astronomical problems in detail in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2012-04-15.2030.rotation-terre.html besides http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/time.html and http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/calendar.html < 1602245870 625102 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1602245969 10811 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/ <-- if you haven't read this definitely worth saving as well < 1602246037 101058 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, doesn't ring a bell either < 1602246760 874566 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to look at all those links later, but now I have some work to do < 1602246804 953921 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome < 1602246929 712296 :user24_!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1602246931 411306 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602246950 607898 :user24_!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602246976 549216 :user24_!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a JOIN :#esoteric < 1602247339 691818 :user24_!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:b131:942c:acc3:ec5a QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602247357 541013 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602247466 221908 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602247632 546838 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602247647 852084 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602248204 29533 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-72-202-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602248852 394561 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602250872 825437 :wib_jonas57!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602250899 869799 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1602250958 750525 :wib_jonas57!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 NICK :wib_jonas < 1602251520 290319 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602251842 427360 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1602252335 386625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77896&oldid=77887 5* 03Orby 5* (+373) 10Clarifying and updating some simple translations > 1602252383 508725 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77897&oldid=76668 5* 03Orby 5* (+73) 10/* Assorted */ < 1602253142 401534 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602254345 479778 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602254892 401358 :orby!450a3ff6@69.10.63.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602254896 121736 :orby!450a3ff6@69.10.63.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all > 1602255062 600850 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77898&oldid=77896 5* 03Orby 5* (+170) 10/* Commands */ < 1602255106 881369 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602255776 99687 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi orby < 1602255820 420380 :orby!450a3ff6@69.10.63.246 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello :) < 1602255951 462631 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i was recently pondering slightly on the formula fo Gregorian leap years < 1602256022 514443 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: some of those links that we mentioned above has the formula. or do you want a software implementation? there are open source implementations I can point to. < 1602256076 224355 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i was just thinking about checking whether a year is a leap year < 1602256095 512510 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a complicated check, but was slightly interesting, from a logical point of view < 1602256182 564604 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that formula has only really been experimentally tested for not much more than five hundred cases, so with all the fickle political decisions (as exemplified by the timezone database) at best it's a current plan and best prediction < 1602256249 727414 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a period of 400 years, and has been tested for less than 500 years, so it's hard to take it all that seriously < 1602256293 685706 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's much more stable then the fucking holidays and timezones < 1602256311 60155 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : GregorianLeapYear(y) ⇔ 4 ∣ y ∧ ¬ (100 ∣ y ∧ 400 ∤ y) < 1602256367 716565 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⇔ 4 ∣ y ∧ (100 ∤ y ∨ 400 ∣ y) < 1602256401 277255 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⇔ (4 ∣ y ∧ 100 ∤ y) ∨ 400 ∣ y < 1602256428 213686 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⇔ ¬ (4 ∤ y ∨ 100 ∣ y) ∨ 400 ∣ y < 1602256508 926285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602256538 407484 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⇔ (4 ∣ y → 100 ∣ y) → 400 ∣ y < 1602256605 496502 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we express ⌜A ∧ ¬ B⌝ ("⌜A⌝, but not ⌜B⌝","⌜A⌝, except if ⌜B⌝") as ⌜A ⤚ B⌝, then we can also say < 1602256622 264806 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : ⇔ 4 ∣ y ⤚ (100 ∣ y ⤚ 400 ∣ y) < 1602256629 776985 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, it's an exception with an exception) < 1602256944 573409 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602257241 658405 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, there's also something funny going on, with the entailments between the three individual divisibility conditions, here) < 1602257311 770887 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1602258372 211033 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602259136 900280 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602259323 6864 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 > 1602259421 788536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77899&oldid=77898 5* 03Orby 5* (-1033) 10Fixing mistakes < 1602260820 33219 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: you could also uncurry that < 1602260852 491470 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait < 1602262112 847149 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602262510 284300 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncurry what ? < 1602263119 611666 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602263222 560108 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602263279 41163 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602263574 379453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mustard watch < 1602263578 562061 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mapole < 1602263578 894041 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mustard watch is just a classical watch extended with a certain amount of mustard in the mechanism. < 1602263579 925990 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. < 1602263883 785099 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1602264173 537819 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Client Quit < 1602264337 418947 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thwackamacallit < 1602264338 854831 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. < 1602264361 157944 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? whatchamacallit < 1602264364 829761 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whatchamacallit is like a thwackamacallit, but less painful. < 1602265263 441201 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1602265815 384610 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77900&oldid=77899 5* 03Orby 5* (+333) 10 < 1602266197 789971 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602266339 443924 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602269277 178047 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602269721 533213 :orby!450a3ff6@69.10.63.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602269893 492554 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602270363 25523 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602272568 131299 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602274988 40235 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1602276604 775827 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like solar hijri calendar? < 1602276831 497931 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602277778 492884 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602277788 164136 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602278598 80841 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602278643 847133 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602280229 895349 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: A simple C code is (!((y%100?:y/100)&3)) or (!((y%100?y:y/100)&3)) to calculate if it is a leap year. < 1602280313 768768 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea (calculating it wasn't the issue) < 1602280913 521587 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although maybe it is related to the logic < 1602282496 287556 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602283005 26701 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :` ? : ' is equivalent to ` ? : ' (modulo side-effects in `') ? < 1602283006 188955 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? No such file or directory < 1602283108 315387 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is how it works in GNU C (some features of GNU C are also implemented in clang, I think) < 1602284973 241144 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i recall seeing it somewhere, but didn't look into the exact semantics < 1602284984 33595 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's like `or' in Scheme, then < 1602285030 590138 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602285091 104022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Perl ||. < 1602286638 79458 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and || in JavaScript also acts like that < 1602286903 315283 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602287049 443734 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602287229 875597 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 PART :#esoteric < 1602287267 111072 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602287304 807091 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1602287614 524245 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flower_corpse: hello < 1602287638 498280 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like your name < 1602287753 659189 :flower_corpse!~flower_co@185.195.232.251 PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 2.7.1" < 1602287858 423762 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602287929 932495 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flower_corpse: I admire yours < 1602288122 266677 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602293678 676294 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602295131 234267 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602296517 211937 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602301723 697606 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602302576 549561 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602307543 262643 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602308118 790851 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602311364 142481 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1602311776 342272 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602315181 822624 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602317301 985326 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602317443 776573 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1602321325 930949 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* 10New user account > 1602321540 187425 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77901&oldid=77879 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+216) 10/* Introductions */ < 1602322469 255661 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1602322890 688931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77902&oldid=75936 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+151) 10/* See also */ add HQ9+- and HQ9F+ < 1602322892 145451 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602323107 295788 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric > 1602323690 300639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+-14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77903 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+666) 10create page. Note that i restated the specification (except for the quote) so hopefully it is public domain now. > 1602327371 619021 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9F+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77904&oldid=76073 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+13) 10Harmonize name of links section with rest of wiki ("External resources") > 1602327558 61960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FHQ9+-14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77905 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+399) 10Created page with "An extension of [[HQ9+-]] that adds the F operator to print [[FizzBuzz]] up to 100 by wyattscarpenter. - preceded by an F deferences a null [[pointer]]. == See also == * HQ..." > 1602327660 838075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9F+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77906&oldid=77904 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+40) 10Add a see also section to the page. > 1602327847 114975 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77907&oldid=77903 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (-12) 10Expand see also section > 1602327969 834389 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77908&oldid=30189 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+16) 10Expand see also section > 1602328007 403006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FHQ9+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77909&oldid=77905 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+115) 10Add categories > 1602328038 144143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77910&oldid=77907 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+115) 10Add categories > 1602328062 949408 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77911&oldid=77902 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+73) 10/* See also */ add FHQ9+- > 1602328146 426618 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HQ9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77912&oldid=77911 5* 03Dingolover6969 5* (+1) 10/* See also */ typo in previous edit < 1602329468 376173 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602333938 803752 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602334408 694773 :diverger!~div@196.244.191.180 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1602334807 14547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77913 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+8131) 10Created page with "'''33''' is the name of a simple and original [[esolang]] invented by [https://github.com/TheOnlyMrCat TheOnlyMrCat]. The language has exactly ''33'' alphabetical single-chara..." > 1602335106 361577 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77914&oldid=77913 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+19) 10I accidentally saved. :P > 1602335133 391585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77915&oldid=77914 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10Uh oh! > 1602335233 458892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77916&oldid=77915 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+17) 10Does this work? > 1602335372 764918 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77917&oldid=77916 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+7) 10Nothing interesting... > 1602335524 824315 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77918&oldid=77917 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+82) 10Linking works! > 1602335594 878512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77919&oldid=77918 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-12) 10No it does not! > 1602335637 817011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77920&oldid=77919 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-6) 10Whoops! < 1602335999 627374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you not to take the axiom of choice, fungot < 1602335999 840762 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: a country that works for the very, very fnord. by march, and that > 1602336060 798558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77921&oldid=76716 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+7) 10If I did something bad, please revert my edits! > 1602336227 632252 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77922&oldid=77921 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+20) 10Hmm... > 1602336539 70501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77923&oldid=77920 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+14) 10dictionaries? > 1602336688 431308 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77924&oldid=77923 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-4) 10Grammar fix! < 1602336729 68696 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursaga < 1602336754 880770 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1602336776 497902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77925&oldid=77924 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-1) 10Man, I am bad at grammar stuff. > 1602336872 602069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77926&oldid=77843 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2) 10AAAH! > 1602337142 615892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77927&oldid=77886 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+199) 10I thought I wrote this earlier > 1602337184 113840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77928&oldid=77927 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+13) 10That was unintentional. < 1602339056 301909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: fungot gave AC to me to add to a hoard of its various equivalent formulations < 1602339056 515374 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the government have cut the uk credit union legislation and decisions on the future of the country and the people of our country, to the strategy, and to do that. < 1602339072 22708 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^europarl < 1602339084 662348 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1602339084 662409 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1602339094 561085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot do you feel that still? < 1602339095 614474 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: mr president, there is a simple case of adding together two units. the commission has not provided any clarity, we are left with a report from the commission than is the case now. all the factors needed to become rich and yet today it is necessary to point out that there has never been properly enlightened and has even had a disorientating effect. public funding for research which is of course, is not to correct the r < 1602339118 989466 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a simple case of adding together two units => as I said, an AC hoard < 1602339971 343277 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602342514 563995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What was that about public funding for research? < 1602342515 446152 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, i feel that, in case of prolonged standstill of pigs in holdings kept under movement restrictions due to an oversight on my part. i call on the member states but also in many of our citizens is a specifically chechen crime. this plan specifically refers to the med programme which had emphasized the serious irregularities committed by the airline companies, has created the right conditions to enable the com < 1602342552 473358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better watch those pigs better. < 1602348921 854953 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1602349440 631554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77929&oldid=77922 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10Fix a typo (add `s`) < 1602351540 410634 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602351705 404700 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602352444 323585 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602355023 334142 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602355027 81630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. Bought two regular onions, both looked normal (yellow-brown) on the outside, but inside the other one looks just like a red onion. < 1602355854 836321 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602356030 628162 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602357079 447959 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602357102 821922 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602357430 73873 :osminee!4dfeea86@77-254-234-134.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602357440 538969 :osminee!4dfeea86@77-254-234-134.adsl.inetia.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello there < 1602357463 522111 :osminee!4dfeea86@77-254-234-134.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602361293 414200 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602364873 883886 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602370512 780927 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602371357 237328 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1602371586 382449 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77930&oldid=72479 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 < 1602372700 259008 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602374761 25258 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made up a set of macros in TeX to make a table that can span multiple pages, repeating the table heading on each page and adding a note "(Continued on next page)" at the bottom of the page if the table continues. Maybe you fid it useful too; I don't know < 1602375787 811674 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602380266 352633 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602387040 81791 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a "homoiconic brainfuck" look like? < 1602387177 679476 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd just be one that's self-modifying.. but that's kinda weird. < 1602389930 25012 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1602389941 23043 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1602389962 465583 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing a new client < 1602389989 225070 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone respond? < 1602390000 785626 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1602390027 401381 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1602390094 923430 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :any time. < 1602390101 300745 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy to lend some bytes. < 1602390107 480151 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't take my bytes. < 1602390144 21365 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sgeo here? < 1602390202 381778 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like they're in the channel, yeah. < 1602390265 165437 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were my best friend in college < 1602390294 203408 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :introduced me to here < 1602390563 196751 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Lykaina < 1602390606 471898 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1602391646 1234 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602391751 110148 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnodviuydqdnbssz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602391769 117306 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602391769 652307 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1602391777 788775 :dog_star_!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkwcarqglktqystl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602391784 458468 :user3456_!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs JOIN :#esoteric < 1602391836 726261 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnsjjoiabatnywnb JOIN :#esoteric < 1602392094 272143 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-savifiztfhhlqqsh QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602392094 416474 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfsgocqfqsnkqdiw QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602392095 336137 :dog_star_!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkwcarqglktqystl NICK :dog_star < 1602392952 860544 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1602393001 82979 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602394146 177931 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602400914 442827 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602401959 42120 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602403645 602178 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602403715 610078 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602403843 850600 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602404940 971047 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602411883 281862 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602412114 152069 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602413825 138581 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602414108 925001 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602419180 806310 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602420491 75413 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602422200 58689 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602422218 823357 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602423302 293168 :Lykaina!~Android@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: -a- IRC for Android 2.1.20 < 1602424812 894441 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602426004 40059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602427132 424771 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1602427150 62699 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602427256 298905 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xowhpcdmrwudbqpq QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602427802 210062 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pglcithumomroxoh JOIN :#esoteric > 1602427892 195216 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072DFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77931&oldid=77842 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+71) 10I found TheWastl's PPCG account on their answer to my question! :D < 1602428223 10726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602428309 419984 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602428645 245106 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602429743 423675 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:25c9:2a30:7827:b52e JOIN :#esoteric < 1602431555 325782 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602432630 616262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EWagon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77932&oldid=77852 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (-6) 10 < 1602433594 378312 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602433717 347613 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602434802 855939 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1602434824 33740 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why aren't interwoven alignment preambles allowed? < 1602434999 346024 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guess the context!) < 1602435544 352143 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602435688 161588 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602435806 638815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know what that means but it sounds like a TeX thing. if it's vanilla TeX or Plain TeX, then probably the TeXbook or TeX: The Program tells you why. < 1602436606 604624 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1602436835 5785 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:25c9:2a30:7827:b52e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602437636 670973 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602438015 831725 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602440396 270033 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602440677 31187 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602441039 370610 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602441064 504489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602441382 480369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77933&oldid=77925 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+526) 10Some example programs > 1602441672 397034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77934&oldid=77933 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+288) 10cat + resources < 1602441678 311320 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 > 1602441776 497349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77935&oldid=77872 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+9) 1033 joins! > 1602441898 780754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77936&oldid=77839 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+30) 1033 joins! > 1602441956 454539 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77937&oldid=77838 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+22) 1033 joins! > 1602441985 563441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77938&oldid=77936 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10Oop < 1602449916 358351 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602450287 518524 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602452102 202921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is CDCL "just" SMT where your theory is compatibility with your clause database? < 1602453073 397663 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602453126 642246 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602453153 140326 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602453158 283840 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:HDWithZeroes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77939&oldid=77631 5* 03HDWithZeroes 5* (+270) 10 > 1602453187 501848 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:HDWithZeroes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77940&oldid=77939 5* 03HDWithZeroes 5* (+7) 10 > 1602453188 986370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073x14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77941&oldid=77612 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (-1) 10Spelling fix < 1602453996 139757 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602454019 905651 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1602454039 678742 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602454144 81141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602454573 763868 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :string rewrite rules aren't that composable. < 1602454737 291214 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602454755 557751 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602455120 553819 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602455120 766601 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and systems like underload, FALSE and other concatenative languages with quotations have the problem of needing to deal with variable-sized quotations. < 1602455137 315720 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602459192 807907 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Night night < 1602460632 915873 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602460648 858468 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602462028 547716 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1602465365 945469 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* 10New user account > 1602465577 415727 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77942&oldid=77901 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+216) 10/* Introductions */ < 1602466281 600632 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602466888 540994 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602466928 927516 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602467258 946981 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602471600 536841 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1602471693 285191 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602473678 374780 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. equipage is interesting. but I wonder how far you'd get if you 1. replaced the stack with a resizable tape (and left/right operations) and 2. removed arithmetic. < 1602473843 53866 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically just using dup, drop, swap, apply, compose, left and right. < 1602474116 981315 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick kinda enables `if` though... hm. < 1602474836 384766 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, I made an if statement without 'pick'. < 1602474869 998046 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or really I guess I just made true/false. < 1602475912 784453 :ski!~ski@m-1163-19.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602476756 91216 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602478738 427785 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make duplicating and dropping on an empty stack, you could reduce underload to to dup, drop, swap, apply and compose/concatenate. < 1602478753 983699 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/an empty stack/an empty stack a no-op < 1602478773 791416 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just replace an empty paren set with dup drop. < 1602478927 899149 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602482113 388547 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah that's weird. < 1602483006 691626 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :equipage's quotations are all flat. < 1602483112 324779 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you form nested structures then...? < 1602485042 256068 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602486634 304769 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602486856 839271 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602488985 790418 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602489315 112815 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: can equipage be used to make a `fn` that returns an `fn`? because it seems like when you compose things, you can't form nested structures. < 1602489975 535587 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: No, it can't. (unless I'm misremembering) < 1602490085 844550 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1602490162 570726 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602490169 964038 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doing nested conditionals isn't possible then. < 1602490283 845913 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602490297 916654 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really isn't any "nested" concept in Equipage, no. < 1602490342 382183 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's true for a lot of e.g. machine code architectures too, isn't it? < 1602490373 552756 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. curious as to how you'd do two sequential if statements. < 1602490388 765716 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(foo){if(bar){...}} < 1602490473 521080 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the overall idea for a conditional was that you get an index and then `pick` a function with that index from the bottom of the stack. If you wanted to do two conditionals, then, the function that you `pick` would also have to `pick` another function itself. < 1602490510 141895 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. that's kinda neat. < 1602491012 649092 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like "trampolined style", I guess, looking back on it, but I don't remember thinking that at the time < 1602491845 32183 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602499495 797701 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1602503219 777079 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602503253 25904 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602503515 927969 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602503944 766518 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602506512 481228 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602506528 937299 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602507677 964189 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602510344 224986 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1602510723 858831 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602510789 767718 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1602511093 777194 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602512271 825586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602513123 972414 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602513169 683952 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1602513896 322891 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1602514589 934778 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602515875 235749 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602516007 864609 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602516200 585074 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602516461 218925 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1602517163 879603 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602517183 284252 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602517199 4939 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602517312 841086 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1602518351 775004 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602523867 561721 :Spooktober!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Well, would you look at the time. I've almost missed my ambiguous, non-existent appointment that I have scheduled just when I start to lose interest in my current conversation. < 1602524346 259756 :grumboo!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1602524684 782890 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602526614 631202 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602529754 145649 :user3456_!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs NICK :user3456 < 1602530171 919252 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-samogjnbcdqczjhs QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602530188 757532 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rzgzeitheqknxyvg QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602530191 639699 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pglcithumomroxoh QUIT :Quit: killed < 1602530753 414251 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oexpqeeoarmugxwq JOIN :#esoteric < 1602531733 828568 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602532087 205995 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jnlissfejhbqwqdc JOIN :#esoteric < 1602532094 108209 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wrwrnsouswrrhlxy JOIN :#esoteric < 1602532922 363271 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wrwrnsouswrrhlxy NICK :Discordian[m] < 1602535664 249161 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602537148 780806 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely concatenative languages intrigue me. if you added the ability to nest to equipage you could do some interesting things. < 1602538401 987893 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nest to equipage" ? < 1602538607 719908 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing the compose operator with something like concatenate. < 1602538625 771414 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have functions that contain other functions, but have to be applied. > 1602538656 560501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Baz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77943&oldid=57879 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+89) 10/* Quine */ < 1602539076 996433 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what replacing an operator would have to do with it < 1602539093 732641 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you thinking of something like quotations, like in Factor ? < 1602539125 825596 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in which quotations can contain other quotations. you can't build nested structures in equipage. < 1602539139 385581 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you _can_, but you can't do it via the compose operator. < 1602539425 590380 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, "equipage" is a language, then ? (mayhaps, your language) < 1602539537 497226 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my language. cpressey's. > 1602539691 289478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Furcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77944&oldid=73442 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+70) 10 > 1602540461 270585 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Categowy: Joke wanguages14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77945 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+44) 10Redirected page to [[Category:Themed joke languages]] > 1602540476 442996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Categowy: Joke wanguages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77946&oldid=77945 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (-7) 10Changed redirect target from [[Category:Themed joke languages]] to [[Category:Joke languages]] < 1602540713 690015 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok > 1602540880 530961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Computerdeutsch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77947&oldid=77856 5* 03Orangeyy 5* (-126) 10 > 1602541421 506893 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SHUSH, KAREN.14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77948 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+1259) 10Created page with "SHUSH, KAREN. == SHUSH, KAREN. == === SHUSH, KAREN. === ==== SHUSH, KAREN. ==== ===== SHUSH, KAREN. ===== SHUSH, KAREN. SHUSH, KAREN. ===== SHUSH, KAREN. ===== SHUSH,..." > 1602541658 793058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77949&oldid=59776 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+491) 10 > 1602541781 713233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThisIsNotARealLanguage14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77950&oldid=75238 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+0) 10fixed typo > 1602541801 52827 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ThisIsNotARealLanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77951&oldid=77950 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+14) 10Added content > 1602542196 238453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:RioluTheFurry44714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77952 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+39) 10Redirected page to [[User:RioluTheFurry447/owo]] > 1602542234 733594 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:RioluTheFurry447/uwu14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77953 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+42) 10Created page with "{{Special:Contributions/RioluTheFurry447}}" > 1602542279 309709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:RioluTheFurry447/fursuit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77954 5* 03RioluTheFurry447 5* (+49) 10Created page with "{{Special:DeletedContributions/RioluTheFurry447}}" < 1602543421 403610 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1602543499 617825 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hell is going on here. < 1602543516 302532 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy, wiki defacement. < 1602543612 119705 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't think there's a single contribution in those edits < 1602543683 482706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Baz one from earlier is kind of sort of reasonable. < 1602543710 660274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1602543713 193855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it went off the rails. < 1602543746 229983 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602543756 310831 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=ThisIsNotARealLanguage&curid=2759&diff=77951&oldid=75238 in isolation would not raise too many eyebrows either. < 1602543766 575709 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the others are just awful < 1602543784 711933 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea < 1602543803 978047 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any wiki mods here? < 1602543845 609457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie has the power but doesn't like wielding the tools < 1602543928 519916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try to do a temporary (24h?) edit block + reverts + message on a talk page. < 1602543958 984239 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea < 1602543962 309202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm having trouble understanding the point of those last three.) < 1602543972 870639 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There is no point) < 1602543974 873804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last three tie with the introduction < 1602544011 80377 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of. < 1602544027 975187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1602544061 840493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm "tie in" I guess. < 1602544080 858462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is too difficult :P < 1602544134 919222 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda want to add a wiki page for User:RioluTheFurry447 with the text "Not much is known about this user, but from what can be seen from the esowiki irc bot this person is nothing more than a furry themed spambot. " > 1602544152 405219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/block14]]4 block10 02 5* 03Fizzie 5* 10blocked [[02User:RioluTheFurry44710]] with an expiration time of 1 day (account creation disabled): Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages: Temporary (24h) block for breaking things as part of making a joke of some sort. < 1602544184 158458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages" is one of MediaWiki's default block justifications, though you could argue a lot of our actual content also counts as "nonsense/gibberish". < 1602544197 618037 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :structured nonsense/gibberish. < 1602544200 489969 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes > 1602544223 368686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Furcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77955&oldid=77944 5* 03Fizzie 5* (-70) 10Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/RioluTheFurry447|RioluTheFurry447]] ([[User talk:RioluTheFurry447|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow|PythonshellDebugwindow]] < 1602544254 563322 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/OwO ... I guess UwU works as a smiley as well < 1602544294 702942 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the point of the "SHUSH, KAREN." page < 1602544300 448385 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's just spam. < 1602544304 822314 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's even mentioned on that page. < 1602544306 197943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think there's some sort of mass-rollback thing I could've used as well. But there isn't really that much, and I think that still spams every edit as an individual one on the channel, so I think I'll do it the slow way. < 1602544322 540757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :user3456: Karen-bashing is a modern trend. > 1602544360 354821 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Csub14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77956&oldid=77949 5* 03Fizzie 5* (-491) 10Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/RioluTheFurry447|RioluTheFurry447]] ([[User talk:RioluTheFurry447|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:A|A]] < 1602544361 834114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the esowiki isn't the place for it. < 1602544498 764508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if I can figure out the right process for the newly created pages. < 1602544532 53235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1602544532 586541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 122253Z 30009KT 10SM SCT200 29/11 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP167 T02890111 < 1602544536 550370 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even a way for normal users to delete pages? < 1602544575 615379 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait making it blank would have basically the same effect < 1602544581 103644 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, no. You can blank them and hope for one of the admins to delete them. < 1602544587 856659 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see > 1602544626 925899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Fizzie 5* 10deleted "[[02SHUSH, KAREN.10]]": Mass deletion of pages added by [[Special:Contributions/RioluTheFurry447|RioluTheFurry447]] > 1602544626 940977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Fizzie 5* 10deleted "[[02Categowy: Joke wanguages10]]": Mass deletion of pages added by [[Special:Contributions/RioluTheFurry447|RioluTheFurry447]] < 1602544659 598790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Did you see the thing I asked about CDCL as a theory? I'm still wondering whether it makes sense. < 1602544675 257046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this formulation your "core solver" wouldn't even know about the clause database. < 1602544689 651738 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't < 1602544692 516225 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually there's a delete template that people can put on pages to be deleted < 1602544727 426170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how different this is from a regular SMT theory. < 1602544761 471162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure whether I should do the talk page comment on the "actual" talk page, or the thing it now redirects to, because I guess if a user wants to mildly rearrange their user page, that's fine; it's just that there's a lot of MediaWiki infrastructure that treats "User talk:Username" kind of special. < 1602544801 431670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann_: most of us are mediawiki amateurs < 1602544806 372583 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it may mess with/break the infrastructure its probably better to roll it back < 1602544822 497576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They also didn't actually create the "owo" subpage the talk page redirects to. So maybe I'll just use the real talk page for now.) < 1602544902 277744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, the user talk page isn't created automatically either < 1602544912 279872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh. < 1602544964 517525 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://tetris.wiki/Template:Delete <-- here's an example of a delete template, just use it as a basis for creating one here < 1602544998 96632 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright > 1602545107 655224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Mbox14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77957 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+1166) 10Basically copy directly from https://tetris.wiki/edit/Template:Mbox > 1602545131 671461 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Ambox14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77958 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+814) 10Basically copy from https://tetris.wiki/edit/Template:Ambox > 1602545222 129844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Ambox delete.png10]]": For the Template:Delete page > 1602545251 542327 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Delete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77960 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+476) 10Create template page. Icon and layout copied from https://tetris.wiki/edit/Template:Delete < 1602545266 102585 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete template should be set up < 1602545446 936685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhm, https://tetris.wiki/File:Ambox_delete.png has a CC 3.0 BY license, we can't simply take it for the CC0 esowiki. < 1602545476 724704 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you don't have to take it. Like I said, a basis > 1602545637 378236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:RioluTheFurry44714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77961&oldid=77952 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+898) 10Note on recent edits. < 1602545916 405357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think I can remove a revision of a file so that it's no longer visible. But maybe it'd be nice to replace it with a CC0 delete icon, I'm sure one can't be *that* hard to find. < 1602545971 737317 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea, I'm trying to find one right now < 1602545996 134839 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602546006 564300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case I'll leave it to you, and just deal with the file revision once it's done. :) < 1602546275 846182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one from Wikimedia Commons; maybe not *exactly* the right kind of delete, but could work and is CC0: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Delete_icon.png > 1602546313 259236 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Ambox delete.png10]]": Upload temp file since the original is not under CC0 < 1602546363 493120 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm that's actually kind of cute in the esolang context < 1602546420 626571 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we often thrive on taking things slightly out of context) < 1602546573 147115 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikimedia Commons one seems pretty good < 1602546748 567581 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1602546826 573072 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Ambox delete.png10]]": CC0 Image, will probably be permanent unless a better one is found > 1602546874 4819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Missingno.png10]]": Alternative Delete Icon > 1602546928 214337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:AltDelete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77965 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+476) 10Alternative delete template with different icon < 1602546936 601404 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this doesn't count as spam < 1602546942 938697 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why do you need two? < 1602547008 502796 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ < 1602547099 409342 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess it doesn't matter that much as long as it still has the message and puts the page into the "delete this" category, but you could just use a parameter < 1602547193 330937 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how the MediaWiki system works but I guess I can read the docs < 1602548224 515908 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried reading the docs and couldn't get it to work :/ < 1602548285 567868 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates <-- this? < 1602548369 766576 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions <-- forgot, read this as well < 1602548373 297413 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1602548436 279158 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the #if function, forgot that it was a parser function < 1602548441 654109 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not that important < 1602548473 739821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602549205 421225 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up < 1602549244 785152 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw fizzie you can delete the non CC0 image of the trash can < 1602549508 225781 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if you have a good justification to believe it, "Not much is known about this user, but from what can be seen from the esowiki irc bot this person is nothing more than a furry themed spambot" may be OK; if it is wrong, they can change it by themself, I think. < 1602549638 322794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1602549638 710954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 130020Z AUTO 18002KT 9999 FEW007 SCT010 BKN030 05/04 Q1016 < 1602550001 594247 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, delete the non CC0 image of a trash can. If the image is used somewhere significantly, add a public domain one if you have one, I suppose > 1602550127 601169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Fizzie 5* 10deleted "[[02File:Ambox delete.png10]]": Deleted old revision 20201012234513!Ambox_delete.png: Accidental upload of a non-CC0 image < 1602561210 272052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does x86 have both "xchg r/m64, r64" and "xchg r64, r/m64" encodings? < 1602561257 201332 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, it doesn't. < 1602561288 360692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather they're both listed but they have the same encoding. < 1602561826 6479 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602563489 554322 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602568241 582085 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602569532 197198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Husk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77966&oldid=69990 5* 03Razetime 5* (+683) 10 < 1602574701 812281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1602575186 254793 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77967 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+2727) 10Proposal for a Hypertext Programming Language (HTPL) > 1602575290 286959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77968&oldid=77967 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+15) 10 < 1602575293 46098 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1602575304 114791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77969&oldid=77968 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (-15) 10/* WIP */ > 1602575523 251834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77970&oldid=77969 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+135) 10added history > 1602576528 39665 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPF14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77971 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+1708) 10Proposal for another Brainfuck equivalent < 1602576561 261489 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1602576564 144525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HTPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77972&oldid=77970 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+26) 10 < 1602576663 783032 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1602577731 839624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Hppavilion114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77973&oldid=72237 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+389) 10/* HTPL, thoughts? */ new section > 1602577898 419640 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:ThisIsTheFoxe14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77974 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+216) 10/* Hi ^-^ */ new section > 1602577975 69656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:ThisIsTheFoxe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77975&oldid=77974 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+33) 10/* Hi ^-^ added email */ < 1602578184 24886 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602578389 281843 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bdozkuiapmitgpwh JOIN :#esoteric < 1602578585 957888 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 JOIN :#esoteric > 1602578698 23240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77976&oldid=77822 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+10844) 10/* Positive Int Multiplication */ > 1602578747 634233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77977&oldid=77976 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+25) 10/* Brainfuck Interpreter */ < 1602579004 841630 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602580596 558153 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzdsbixrodfnaeuw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1602581576 461707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77978&oldid=77977 5* 03Aspwil 5* (+773) 10/* Brainfuck Interpreter (No Nested Loop Support) */ < 1602586937 492394 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602586970 867813 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1602589839 299579 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.68.224 QUIT :Quit: wvw /o/ /o/ /o/ < 1602591280 980003 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602591296 800426 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602591468 999629 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602591601 804200 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602592757 904939 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bdozkuiapmitgpwh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1602597116 260805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602597331 538362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03RedstoneDave 5* 10New user account < 1602597334 603533 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602598548 271594 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602598801 251995 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602600018 248579 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm extremely confused. < 1602600147 364087 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in the right channel for that < 1602601694 989348 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.115 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the being confused that's so unpleasant, it's the feeling stupid because of it. < 1602602254 712677 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.115 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602602300 75347 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that feeling < 1602603701 975560 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602604061 940922 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1602604069 801241 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602604090 713099 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602605415 946159 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602606180 360480 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602606283 860714 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602606475 552112 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602606502 384673 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be smart, stay dumb. < 1602607243 215124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602607615 312480 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602609387 869366 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-otrbcamcuucnncmo JOIN :#esoteric < 1602610041 317376 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric > 1602610950 82541 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stax14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77979&oldid=76780 5* 03Cameron 5* (+297) 10/* Programs I've made with it */ Updated multiplying code, I was so dumb when I made the first one. < 1602614865 219266 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602615234 556878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey do you know what precise relation is between the Fibonacci-base numbering and the golden ratio base? < 1602615297 478809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be related and at first I thought they are two different kinds of Ostrowsky numeration for the same number (φ) but the golden base doesn’t seem to be < 1602615351 208992 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d be very glad for a treatise on mixed non-integer base numerations < 1602615577 788855 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golden is not(?) a generic non-integer base due to the rule “prefer 100 to 011 and so on” and I can for example come up with a similar silver base system (for χ := √2 − 1) where the rule is “prefer 100 to 021”, and it’s also related to the “Pell base” analogous to Fibonacci base and being a kind of Ostrowsky system again, unlike(?) that silver system < 1602615689 419933 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make sense of the full generality, what can I do and what mixed non-integer bases are able to make unique representations of numbers by adding such linear rules, and how they connect to continued fractions (golden and silver seem to connect) < 1602615805 466492 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not only unique representation but also monotonicity: in silver base, 1 → 10 → 11 → 20 → 100 → 101 → 110 → 111 → 120 → 200 → 201 → 1000 → … is an ascending sequence < 1602615846 591294 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one picks 021 over 100 and so on, that sequence would not be monotone < 1602615882 352734 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a part of some theory but I’m yet to stumble where to read on it < 1602615977 335264 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that the last digit in the sequence doesn’t go up to 2 is analogous to Ostrowsky systems too. There it’s allowed to take one less value than for all other digit positions < 1602616078 202318 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though that’s not the case for the golden system?.. but both Fibonacci and Pell comply) < 1602616103 963091 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you if you know something about all this < 1602616386 732648 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you can read about that two Ostrowsky things in Andrew Mansfield Rockett, Peter Szüsz “Continued fractions”, in II.4 < 1602616426 234859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wiki article misfused me a lot < 1602616698 425544 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about all that in application to timbre design: harmonics at what ratios to the fundamental can a timbre have to have useful properties, e. g. being sufficiently like “harmonic timbre” ℕ. For example we want for our timbre to not clash with itself when multiplied by φ like harmonic one would, and we want something less boring and spacey than {1, φ, φ², …} < 1602616788 96916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I took a golden system and it adviced me to add 1 and φ − 1 consecutively to fill the blanks < 1602617115 493250 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though now I think it would be better to use 1 and φ and consider an interval between 1 and φ irrelevant). In the same vein one may use a “snake” of adding 2(√2 − 1) and 2 − √2 to √2 to make a timbre which endures multiplication by √2 and is again “not sparse” < 1602617126 340318 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1602617149 90446 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow I didn’t need to close that < 1602617597 313165 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602617641 283406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two things I hate about clothing and shoes and suchlike is (1) the shops where I buy them suck, and they're in shopping malls that are even worse; (2) the models get replaced too quickly, but they have unpredictable quality and lifetime, so by the time any product is proven to be long-lasting and good, it's too late to buy another copy < 1602618256 158445 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: agree < 1602618326 527219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap < 1602618347 95485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of the jeans that I bought is wrong < 1602618359 164095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1602618372 246287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try to return this one since it's unused < 1602618383 769123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this store has a return policy < 1602618490 368139 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no darn it < 1602618492 928565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just labelled it < 1602618499 806002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably can't return < 1602618504 873550 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dislabelled? < 1602618515 188689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, labeled < 1602618535 6115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I decided I'll at least try to figure out which jeans last longer < 1602618546 774056 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for that I have to mark them when I bought them so I can identify them < 1602618556 773999 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1602618582 354954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wrote on its sewn-in washing label in pen, because that's semi-permanent, as in survives a few washing cycles before it fades enough that I have to rewrite it < 1602618592 950624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I noticed that this one has no belt loops < 1602618630 377627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for more elegant trousers I do check that, because they sometimes come with belt loops for narrow belts only, and I don't wear narrow belts < 1602618647 38495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t worry maybe they’ll accept it back anyway? < 1602618667 863273 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1602618668 328431 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is a cheap C&A jeans, and I'm tired, so I didn't think it would have that problem < 1602618672 315213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I'll figure that out later < 1602618682 823861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1602618687 588370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s too late for that nonsense today < 1602618925 829591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1602619082 579285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77980&oldid=77894 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+113) 10Parity < 1602619562 192667 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-otrbcamcuucnncmo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1602624211 586411 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602624218 318178 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602624372 999044 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602624636 927879 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602625910 994816 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1602626893 263168 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602629394 842121 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602629716 530639 :wesleyac!~wesleyac@bouncer.wesleyac.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602630123 154798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't make heads or tails out of this IPv6 issue. It works on the ISP's supplied router. I've snooped on all outgoing traffic from it (by putting a bridge in-between), and there isn't really much that's different, other than of course the MAC addresses. < 1602630322 979841 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some routers have MAC address cloning, in case the problem is the MAC addresses < 1602630533 490642 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602630572 482277 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and you have checked if that router has settings that reveal something? < 1602630579 436977 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, settings that you as the end user can configure? < 1602630714 710525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't some of that traffic encrypted so you can't snoop it with a passive bridg?E? > 1602630802 627582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77981&oldid=77930 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10Undo revision 77930 by [[Special:Contributions/OsmineYT|OsmineYT]] ([[User talk:OsmineYT|talk]]) (correct grammar) < 1602631171 882432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently do get ipv6 connectivity from home, with an address that the computer autoconfigs with the ISP's local modem-router < 1602631448 737389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, by the way, doesn't get NATed, so I guess that means you can directly connect to some of the listening services on my computer, without having to access the local wifi < 1602631489 157729 :RTFM[ChOkO]!~RTFMChOkO@rtfm-ctf/founder/choko QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602631527 765084 :RTFM[ChOkO]!~RTFMChOkO@159.203.106.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602631568 221814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh in particular < 1602631671 628894 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what "that traffic" means, plain IPv6 neighbor discovery and DHCPv6 isn't encrypted in any way. < 1602631747 187201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that isn't, sure, but I wonder if the router has to do authenticate that you're the specific user that pays for the internet service, of if the distant router knows that automatically from which cable the data is coming from < 1602631763 979600 :Luciole!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1602631789 737026 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1602631823 655740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, it should Just Work, and it always has so far. The ISP's (official) attitude towards third-party routers is that they'll provide only very limited support, but they're not going to intentionally break them. < 1602631857 261453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. so I just keep their modem+router, even if I may put my own router behind them < 1602631900 629887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's probably something particularly fundamentally wrong, because I don't even get a response for the ICMPv6 neighbor discovery on the link-local addresses, even though the messages are pretty much identical. < 1602631933 58306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, I don't (yet) have a router behind it, and most of the time I only have one computer behind it so far, the one desktop computer, with occasional guest devices connected through wifi, but in my parent's house there was a system of like a router or two and four switches including two wifi or somesuch < 1602632014 658407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also managed to catch the ISP's router doing a firmware update immediately when I plugged it in, which I guess I should've expected.) < 1602632053 364836 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602632055 75795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cables pulled to two additional rooms through the attic, plus to a neighbor, and the modem and most of the devices were in the room that my parents used them, where my father often had like six desktop computers connected for reasons of his work. I don't know how it changed these days, but of course there are much more smartphones. < 1602632857 859743 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602633481 807954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably get one of these dynamic dns services so that I can host silly stuff on my home desktop towards the internet. presumably one that does both ipv4 and ipv6, since the isp gives me connectivity through both. < 1602635842 791995 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I host stuff on my home computer too, but I don't have version 6 internet. < 1602636647 625708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"version 6 internet" sounds weird, even if I know that the unixy socket interface calls the required address family AF_INET6 < 1602643985 31164 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602644010 425939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi again world < 1602644242 10927 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602645133 520718 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi arseniiv. < 1602645177 80088 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: morning! (from my perspective at least) < 1602645224 317687 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw at any rate, do you know something about golden base type numerations? < 1602645375 991554 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not! < 1602645384 403105 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :am interested in what that means though. < 1602645542 69607 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was rambling about that a small amount the other day at https://esolangs.org/logs/2020-10-13.html#lnb < 1602645542 217177 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m in a sense desperate, though I uncovered another bit between dreams. Maybe these *are* just plain non-integer base systems, but as one has identities such as φ² = φ + 1, or χ² = 2χ + 1, or (√2)² = 2, it makes an obvious way to constrain digit strings precisely in such a way to make the numeration ascending < 1602645552 303294 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still think there’s more to it < 1602645690 351301 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example I can’t explain that easily that the restriction to have the last digit ≠ 1 (so, exactly zero) for base φ or ≠ 2 for base χ corresponds to the analogous restriction for base Fibonacci or base Pell < 1602645756 238659 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, there’s no such restriction for base φ but there is for base χ < 1602645768 237597 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes things more confusing < 1602645809 187425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I defined χ := √2 + 1 for convenience) < 1602645876 96180 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the next one would be ψ: ψ² = 3ψ + 1, and maybe I should investigate it and find out that things are even more confusing) < 1602646276 215556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-99.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602646485 227478 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602646502 980930 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602647957 964021 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) > 1602651170 572721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Template:Delete10]]": Copyright violation: content was: "{{Ambox | namespace = main | text = '''This page is a candidate for deletion.''' | style = border: 1px solid #c23446; border-...", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Pipythonmc|Pipythonmc]]" ([[User talk:Pipythonmc|talk]]) > 1602651250 694431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Template:Ambox10]]": Copyright violation: the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Pipythonmc|Pipythonmc]]" ([[User talk:Pipythonmc|talk]]) > 1602651278 867711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Template:AltDelete10]]": Copyright violation: the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Pipythonmc|Pipythonmc]]" ([[User talk:Pipythonmc|talk]]) < 1602656172 886193 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/ShorttermHumbleCommunication and now to try to bootstrap church numerals in this thing. < 1602657913 977338 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602658837 185687 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602658929 987404 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602658972 325753 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602659201 182221 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602659209 20195 :imode1!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602659376 591798 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602659997 334639 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602660188 419421 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602660738 293226 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :church numerals seem easy. just a bunch of compositions over and over again. could have a `number` macro that preserves the two quotations you worked with for later. < 1602660811 346099 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602662238 70277 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602662862 535468 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602662908 575379 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602663171 516239 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602663363 855968 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602663905 244821 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602664506 168476 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1602666201 478868 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stax14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77982&oldid=76776 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+104) 10 < 1602666210 301408 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602667802 969797 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richardson%27s_theorem < 1602667868 205517 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laczkovich's simplified version looks particularly nice < 1602667882 429976 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I was messing around in Haskell, and implemented regular expressions with "data Regex c a = Regex (Maybe a) (c -> Regex c a)" < 1602667904 790131 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it's possible to implement a Choice instance (from the profunctors library) for this type < 1602667980 348187 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what use this instance would have, however < 1602668027 953659 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is my code: https://gist.github.com/Taneb/804c57c4563645d933d215470cf3f911 < 1602668283 533592 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The profunctor docs tell me Choice is "the generalization of Costar of Functor that is strong with respect to Either." I think I'll sit this one out. < 1602668483 904688 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if I have a regular expression on alphabet c, I can turn it into one on Either c d, which accepts any Right value and otherwise matches what we started with if we ignore the Rights < 1602668726 921487 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I don't think I follow you. What did we start with? < 1602668753 873557 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A regular expression on alphabet c < 1602668830 89593 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the "what we started with" in the phrase "otherwise matches what we started with"? < 1602668840 770048 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1602668868 855100 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So left' a*b accepts [Right x, Left a, Left a, Right y, Left b] < 1602668879 56523 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if we ignore the Rights, we hae aab which a*b accepts < 1602669029 548623 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this help? < 1602669112 328258 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: also feel free to look at/comment on the rest of the file, too < 1602669203 715414 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this much or any different from https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Data-Either.html#v:lefts ? < 1602669272 589733 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...somewhat < 1602671916 179122 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.125 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602672564 173692 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602673778 828895 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602675465 534319 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602679347 276966 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602679363 811489 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602683619 849321 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602687071 70351 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602687466 454353 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602689162 986051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-205.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602694571 487935 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PART :#esoteric < 1602694584 300379 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602694948 754447 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602696584 529664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose we have a function `unconst :: (a → b) → Maybe b` which returns `Just x` precisely on functions extensionally equal to `const x`. How many miracles could we make? I suppose we could solve halting problem? < 1602696660 77170 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this kind of function to be reasonable, it need constraints like (Bounded a, Eq b) or something less strong than Bounded but which means “b is finite and recursively enumerable” < 1602701935 494093 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnucxmdawpsltrqc JOIN :#esoteric < 1602701970 563243 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602702154 14244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602703699 134730 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602707623 364534 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602708171 450705 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602708180 203335 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602709103 578948 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602712314 676550 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602713495 481932 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndqbdjnvwphadjhw QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602713560 379135 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :Excess Flood < 1602713567 999491 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1602713570 450200 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me QUIT :Changing host < 1602713570 450253 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1602713631 777054 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihgderxwrpezoxzq JOIN :#esoteric < 1602714596 971618 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602716179 981478 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602716469 77838 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602716538 31654 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602717773 992139 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602718610 976373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Interstack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77983&oldid=77671 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Cat program */ Fix cat program to match description < 1602719679 931159 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602719750 440754 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602720149 590146 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602720793 436501 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602720803 81433 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602723581 320931 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602723598 192806 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1602725980 190696 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a JavaScript code to read /dev/urandom and use that to make up random numbers, because the built-in one using floating random numbers when you actually want integers, isn't a very good way to do it, I think. The same is true of BASIC. < 1602726176 660762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the main reason to use JavaScript is to run in web browsers, which don't give you access to /dev/urandom. < 1602726255 304191 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, JavaScript is one programming language you can use in web pages (the other is WebAssembly), although it is not limited to web browsers. If you are using something that does give you such access (such as Node.js running on Linux), then you can. < 1602726605 428052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't write web programs with just WebAssembly, though. < 1602726620 850258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You always need JavaScript. < 1602726856 201537 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, many web pages should not need any document scripts at all < 1602727458 420540 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit integers? < 1602727624 638837 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although you might want numbers in a certain range, and if it is not a power of two, then it might take more than one try before you get an acceptable number. < 1602727657 450290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're enumerating programming languages, GLSL and OpenCL may also work in browsers, depending on available hardware. < 1602727680 138241 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/dworthen/prng <-- searching online for javascript PRNGs turns up this < 1602727751 499389 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bryc/code/blob/master/jshash/PRNGs.md <-- also this < 1602727815 343726 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there's also whether you want cryptographic security or not < 1602728120 528398 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602728180 323129 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnucxmdawpsltrqc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1602730452 928300 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602730465 332982 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602730465 437893 :vertrex!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host < 1602730465 437950 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1602738794 893101 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602740426 515488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-205.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erich Friedman confirmed that https://erich-friedman.github.io/ is maintained by him, it's not a third-party mirror. good. < 1602744290 860494 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602744339 788257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602746363 980435 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602746639 566583 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602746665 559333 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once upon a time there was a language called "Java" that ran in web browsers. There was also something called "Flash" < 1602746789 505422 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a horror story. < 1602746976 558012 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602747000 444776 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602747009 915189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of basing your language choice on your target platform is still ridiculous. < 1602747051 65510 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portable high-level languages were invented in the 1950s or thereabouts, so the fact that this idea exists today is just ridiculous. < 1602747067 791218 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right. You should base your language choice on availability of programmers who will code in it for the lowest possible pay < 1602747109 730452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java only ever ran badly in web browsers. And neither Java nor Flash did general-purpose things. They just painted onto a special canvas. < 1602747236 688074 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is such a thing as a general-purpose programming language, but Java can certainly be used in many application areas. Applets are (were) just one of those areas. < 1602749142 967905 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that different programming languages are suitable for different purposes, although being portable can also be useful. (There is also possibility to target only one VM, but for the VM itself to be portable, which is also useful in some cases. It might also be written for a different system which is then emulated, such as a computer game written for DOS but running on Linux.) < 1602749159 903747 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602749230 461528 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even today some people write computer games for NES/Famicom; they will then work on not only NES/Famicom but also any computer that can emulate it.) < 1602749298 756953 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602749443 780403 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602750062 190002 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602750458 169694 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602750961 199550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I mean, general-purpose inside a web browser. < 1602750969 349642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the runtime environment, not the language. < 1602751586 141787 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. But if it's ridiculous to choose a language based on the platform it targets in the first place, then why does it even matter if some languages target some platforms poorly? < 1602751910 471424 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602752057 293715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow. < 1602752095 420528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying I didn't like Java applets (the platform) and Flash (the platform) for this reason. I wasn't commenting on the languages except to the extent they target those platforms. < 1602752155 66760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My platform complaints are about web pages (JavaScript etc.), Android (Java), Apple platforms (Swift/Objective C), and so on. < 1602752195 17364 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1602752221 316853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also didn't mean to complain more than a couple of linesworth. < 1602752262 831327 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1602757148 619273 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602757590 565979 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602760032 529427 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to figure out what Haskell wants is frustrating and makes me feel shitty. < 1602760051 478644 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably give up and leave this sort of thing to the people who have aptitude for it. < 1602760304 920347 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :add more type annotations! < 1602760348 192961 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only way to counter haskell's zealous global type inference < 1602760776 452148 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what type annotation it wants < 1602761349 869306 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like playing one of those text adventures where the puzzles have arbitrary solutions < 1602761382 457083 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving up. Life is too short to be doing something that makes you feel this shitty. < 1602762017 718678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1602762078 386388 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only ~1500 lines, I can easily rewrite it in Python. < 1602762155 191460 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: can you share what you've been struggling with? < 1602762215 80872 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'd rather not. < 1602762222 168148 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1602762318 62696 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone else simply tells me what's wrong with it and how to fix it, will I learn anything from that? < 1602762326 488798 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect not. < 1602762368 901494 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, do we have a "the error is in line 42" meme here? < 1602762524 168245 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might learn something about what's impossible < 1602762574 126808 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, to put it another way, I'd rather not share it because I don't want to feel even shittier still < 1602762668 103287 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewriting the whole thing might work < 1602762676 275595 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks to their television-atrophied attention spans, these casual gamers are mentally incapable of spending six hours trying to randomly guess at the absurd dream logic Roberta Williams has applied to the problem of getting the dungeon key out of the bluebird's nest." -- http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html < 1602762715 653353 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that article extends over 3 pages, it makes more sense if you read them all) < 1602762854 117240 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/makes more sense/is much funnier/ < 1602762946 957765 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 QUIT :Quit: Time to find a new hobby. < 1602763903 752946 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602763922 848279 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602767359 704781 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602768387 751420 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I have an even better idea than rewriting this project in Python. I could just not do it at all! > 1602769496 583648 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon/Expirements14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77984 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+47) 10New page! > 1602769575 788911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77985&oldid=77928 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+119) 10Expirements... > 1602769770 665634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon/Expirements/Output in esolangs14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77986 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+217) 10Output? What is that? < 1602769927 262793 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602771797 168364 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pissed off and feeling cheated. I want a solution to this. < 1602772145 21542 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact is that some people are not good at "thinking in types". I am one of them. < 1602772201 899703 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as long as these people exists, languages whose entire culture is based on "thinking in types" can't promote themselves as being for everyone. It's disingenuous. < 1602772227 155521 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no language is for everyone < 1602772251 149214 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the Haskell community was more elitist, it would be more honest of them. < 1602772273 913082 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your problem? < 1602772334 262475 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem is that while I like the bottom 15% of Haskell a lot, I'm not smart enough to work with the top 85% of Haskell. < 1602772342 857798 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think in not-types :( < 1602772351 603070 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: doesn't say exactly because he wants to fix it himself, but it's probably still that monad transformer tower thing from a few days ago < 1602772353 170093 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think haskell is too complex, it's like C++ < 1602772364 540718 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basics are really good like data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) < 1602772392 620950 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to use the complex parts, they're kind of ugly < 1602772402 635740 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof, i wouldn't compare haskell to c+| < 1602772408 276904 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC then < 1602772408 802943 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1602772422 634259 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? ghc makes no sense here < 1602772425 73556 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't use the complex parts you're "not really programming in Haskell". < 1602772446 668382 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, you're alienating yourself from the community and libraries. < 1602772447 775005 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but i'm saying that you don't need to use haskell, just use the good parts tm < 1602772462 785934 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the community alienated themselves by breaking everything < 1602772464 129191 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh < 1602772513 873094 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell was fine you have functors and monads, then they made everything traversible and the language wasn't as nice < 1602772563 402322 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Which means you're the sort of person who should use Haskell, and that I am the sort of person that should not. < 1602772584 780807 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps! < 1602772595 246160 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think people should do what they find enjoyable, most of all < 1602772678 695063 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: do you mean applicable instead of traversible? < 1602772696 400387 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no applicative is cool < 1602772728 154515 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602772952 331008 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't enjoy feeling dumb and shitty. < 1602772977 423257 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a specific thing that made you feel dumb? < 1602773006 50309 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to post your code < 1602773011 937156 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he won't < 1602773063 426388 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't about my code. < 1602773141 630237 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's some reasonably straightforward problem with existential types, which I don't understand very well. < 1602773157 500294 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :existential are very very hard to use < 1602773163 293642 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never really make sense < 1602773172 841148 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I could spend X amount of time studying existential types and eventually be able to understand the problem and fix it. < 1602773190 841454 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem is that X is very large, given that I do not "think in types". < 1602773196 969490 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better to avoid it if possible, there is one pattern of usage thaht is ok (the ST monad) but other than - try to avoid < 1602773215 471650 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but everyone uses GADTs. < 1602773241 524672 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a specific GADT you want to work with < 1602773260 232203 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, I could luddite to Haskell98 with no LANGUAGE pragmas, which is what I have done until now < 1602773269 369934 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the right thing to do imo < 1602773316 886973 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rewrite it into a non-lazy language that doesn't require you to think in types < 1602773326 905425 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a multiparadigm language that doesn't bind your hands < 1602773374 352186 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one where you can write code by just writing what the computer has to do, instead of having to prove that compiler that it's correct < 1602773402 439473 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't about my code. < 1602773403 596083 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602773435 796764 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you don't have to prove your code is correct in Haskell -- you can happily write a monad that doesn't adhere to the monad laws < 1602773465 38315 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we have coq < 1602773621 168954 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq has a lot of appeal, but it's also a lot of work, and I would probably still be expected to "think in types" a lot of the time. < 1602773657 412307 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep saying this isn't about my code -- if anything it's about something in the Haskell community that is hard to pinpoint. < 1602773676 35763 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in coq it's a bit more like mathematical logic < 1602773683 272232 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can actually make more sense < 1602773686 887843 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing what the computer has to do is my least favourite style of programming < 1602773842 454072 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically what I hate is when people who do think in types look down their nose at people who do not think in types. < 1602773865 34780 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea that sucks < 1602773871 418289 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :were people being dicks in #haskell or something? < 1602774013 211315 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :free hugs! < 1602774455 757433 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: Nothing specific to the #haskell channel < 1602774727 318833 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1602775909 152924 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602776602 753397 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.93.13 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602780400 494533 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602780499 628680 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602787518 134012 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602787901 815184 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602789806 541602 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602794648 647590 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602794860 419980 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602795437 26763 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602796125 742687 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602796185 945826 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602798017 930660 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602799843 892844 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602802622 187033 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602802808 359353 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602802899 972407 :dcristofani!4547b7aa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1602803784 223897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77987&oldid=77844 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+399) 10 < 1602804379 167086 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602804846 959334 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far > 1602804864 328548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Muddle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77988&oldid=62048 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10Fix wikilink ([Text] -> [[Text]]) < 1602808174 45659 :dcristofani!4547b7aa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602811750 519857 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602816707 688052 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602820530 756329 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602821749 100566 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602822691 932382 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602822762 80181 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602823408 442714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Which one do you prefer, the Battle of Donkey Island, or the Secret of Monkey Island? < 1602823408 653068 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: mr president, like others, expect to ensure that the quantity of employment. < 1602823419 302486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1602823419 302539 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1602823436 199150 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: say anything < 1602823436 409419 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: pikhq, go! go! gone! waah! my head is that logical? < 1602823446 872394 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1602823720 731823 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also, https://www.squakenet.com/game/donkey-island/ < 1602823755 113900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The game pretty much takes everything that made the Monkey Island games great, such as clever and inventive puzzles and a delightfully bonkers, but equally clever, sense of humour, and removes it so that what you're left with is an incomprehensible mess." < 1602823786 864360 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a wholesome endorsement :) < 1602823831 32509 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, so much for that pun. < 1602823878 449163 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The aforementioned battle is real; it happened in 2007 as part of one of the Iraq wars.) < 1602824462 531050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's quite a rip-off. < 1602824581 902668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think my idea for CDCL-as-a-theory nearly works but maybe not entirely. < 1602824597 458666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, when you learn a clause, you just need a notion of adding it to the clause database, I think? < 1602824830 742523 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602825447 488992 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602831875 592226 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602832177 47825 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602832350 892583 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602832396 858126 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602834483 329892 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602835714 492719 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602835783 897159 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602835843 845930 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602837341 738305 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602837986 324930 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1602838063 945155 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I was trying to say a few days ago, Laczkovich's version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richardson%27s_theorem (see "Extensions") looks pretty cute. < 1602838649 124363 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1602840181 704798 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602840552 912008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to understand the whole "first-order theory of the real field is decidable" deal. < 1602840572 502192 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any field whose first order theory isn't decidable must therefore be fake < 1602840682 492200 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1602840688 514864 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi shachaf < 1602840697 888620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's everything in Tanebland < 1602840705 866234 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so good < 1602840707 57048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :see any good cats lately? < 1602840708 718800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1602840713 874933 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not seen any cats lately < 1602840758 954859 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And furthermore it looks like I'm going to be unemployed starting mid-next month < 1602840771 6485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1602840821 249146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in italy? < 1602840830 25923 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :( < 1602840836 36759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple oh no < 1602841052 536684 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1602841874 872926 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602841889 513892 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602843169 56487 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1602843416 429810 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77989&oldid=77987 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+5) 10 < 1602843563 108932 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602843765 337867 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1602843988 266259 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77990&oldid=77989 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+64) 10 > 1602844151 866790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77991&oldid=77990 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+22) 10 > 1602844203 43501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A.R.T.I.C.L.E. Lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77992&oldid=77991 5* 03SoicBR 5* (-37) 10 > 1602844465 544542 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77993&oldid=77935 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+26) 10/* A */ < 1602846568 858877 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602846616 385518 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I finally ended up writing the tic-tac-toe player in brainfuck that's been on my to-do list forever. http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/tictactoe.b < 1602846644 596773 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently 963 commands long. < 1602846708 325559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it play optimally? < 1602846756 470273 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1602846785 855216 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. in terms of winning. It doesn't care about winning in the shortest number of moves. < 1602846999 981656 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saved processing time by having it prune branches once it's evaluated a position as a win, rather than looking farther for a shorter win. < 1602847252 397276 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, after some feedback from the esolangs Discord, I've made it handle invalid input gracefully. < 1602847525 947354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, I don't think shortest number of moves matters. < 1602847538 208832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since every game of tic-tac-toe is a draw so they all take 9 moves. < 1602847742 737603 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I made this one so it'll grab a win if its opponent slips up. < 1602847810 99869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me that I should internalize negascot/principal variation search. < 1602847855 986961 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 QUIT :Quit: Lunch < 1602848344 509526 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcristofani, good < 1602848353 738337 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know about misere knots and crosses? < 1602848356 703521 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actuall < 1602848361 348501 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misere knots? < 1602848364 906803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602848366 332340 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both players do knots < 1602848370 204505 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aim is to lose < 1602848388 396313 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be played on larger boards than 3x3 < 1602848460 587981 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw did you try anticheckers when you can and must eat your own checkers too? In a variety where you may and must eat whole chains of checkers in one move if you’re able < 1602848469 795984 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/when/where also < 1602848493 728224 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean where additionally < 1602848697 545774 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the aim is to lose => now upon reading that knots and crosses is a game I actually well know, that seems baffling. Is it to make a draw, or how is it possible to lose then? < 1602848728 9799 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait or not < 1602848778 69009 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602848901 576075 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcristofani: "the tic-tac-toe player in brainfuck that's been on my to-do list forever" => are you kspalaiologos under a different nickname? < 1602848924 419458 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Daniel Cristofani. < 1602848947 321960 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: is that noughts and crosses? < 1602849031 985498 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kspalaiologos under a different nickname? => lool < 1602849095 628417 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I guess I can't accept how popular brainfuck is, and keep thinking only a few people write actual non-helloworld programs in it < 1602849118 403334 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I imagined a game when one places some -|- intersecting paths and maybe curvy things like )( rotated 45°, and the aim is to make knot [diagram]s and something < 1602849159 502905 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcristofani: does it use the 3x3 magic square encoding of tic-tac-toe at least internally for computations (not necessarily on the interface)? < 1602849223 472589 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: yeah, that was funny is a truthy way, that’s why it was in need to appreciate explicitly :) < 1602849229 875918 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hmm. I bet searching for "Conway knot game" would find something relevant for that < 1602849251 830229 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You weren't wrong about few people writing in brainfuck. And no, it doesn't. Not that that's a bad idea. < 1602849419 319813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw a couple of days ago I realised I can do a Feynmann mug trick almost well enough (I keep checking if the mug is upright enough, and without practice, movements aren’t smooth enough) < 1602849460 179008 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like there are more brainfuck variants than brainfuck programmers. see https://web.archive.org/web/20190814011410/http://www.bbspot.com/news/2000/4/linux_distros.html < 1602849464 83475 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I ended up scaring my relatives with it < 1602849927 626126 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone uses Jupyter with VS Code, do know it doesn’t support audio playback. I was forced to use the ordinary browser version to hear what I was constructing < 1602850284 608764 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1602850291 242407 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602850328 288946 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a brainfuck to C translator in brainfuck < 1602850357 731427 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too! < 1602850407 434001 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A long time ago. http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/dbf2c.b) < 1602850469 965877 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one! < 1602850482 463831 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like we did it the same way kinda < 1602850636 932520 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1, dcristofani: link them from https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations if appropriate < 1602850717 463835 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Notable_implementations claims that https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations is the complete list of brainfuck implementations, so these should be there < 1602850824 758578 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i make an implementation and don't publish it, i make the page lie? < 1602850890 313803 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be better to change it so it doesn't make that claim. I don't think any of my seven are on there. < 1602850910 537478 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: no, it's already a lie < 1602850925 726784 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least some of them predate the esolangs wiki. < 1602850936 424415 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven... yeah, at this point I shouldn't even be surprirsed > 1602851139 955520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77994&oldid=77929 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (-2) 10/* Notable implementations */ < 1602852789 535623 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602852838 507345 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602854493 319711 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602854659 168246 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1602854697 879482 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602855332 649184 :dcristofani_!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602855333 79959 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602855342 946033 :dcristofani_!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com NICK :dcristofani < 1602856032 384482 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate these fucking agressive settings. enter the wrong password twice, bang, remote service locks you and your whole country out for a day. great for DOS to those who actually need to access the service. < 1602856167 995688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree < 1602856282 548752 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's symmetric, we have some in our company's mail server, but also at our clients where I have to log in to fix stuff remotely. < 1602856598 342527 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have the problem that one of our customers seems to be responsible for putting our public ip address on a mailer blacklist. horrible problem to deal with > 1602856623 583875 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SunnyMoon/Expirements/Output in esolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77995&oldid=77986 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2164) 10Added all languages I know (now) < 1602856646 357623 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the office network only has ipv4 and it's an 8 byte wide address range, and most of the workstation computers are turned off on the weekend. I wonder if anyone ever tries to lock out all ip addresses that aren't currently in use, scheduled for sunday night. < 1602856795 58229 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible that that lockout rule only triggers for accesses from external internet. < 1602857177 750429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602859135 752172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602859237 530204 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602861294 323770 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602862833 156423 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602862904 98510 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projects tho, amirite < 1602862910 991707 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :u no i am < 1602864013 291896 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1602864476 297369 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602864780 347749 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602866568 795934 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602866792 870827 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602866842 857213 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lilfcenuuoxldcts JOIN :#esoteric < 1602867200 773742 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602867241 185568 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :projects and learnings < 1602867569 706953 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.70.177 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1602869511 758416 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602869580 557726 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602872067 998666 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602873969 75850 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602879843 969716 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602881557 284583 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1602883716 602637 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PixelCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77996&oldid=71554 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+251) 10 < 1602884644 618507 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602885136 171519 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1602885839 840630 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602886545 767847 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602890161 781412 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602891419 692545 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lilfcenuuoxldcts QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1602892966 9278 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tvcyknnwbjqioqmz JOIN :#esoteric < 1602893030 442382 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602893738 345220 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602893844 183592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-205.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602894425 9172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602894694 294824 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602896092 390248 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602898051 176933 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602899425 160111 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602899700 357441 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602899788 144742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602900330 316476 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602903830 300772 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602903837 706803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this is ridiculous < 1602903844 886580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't connect inbound to my server at all < 1602903864 650538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I opened up a serial console (remotely) and telnetted /out/ of it < 1602903869 436256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to see if the networking worked < 1602903908 161215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what sort of issue would cause only outbound connections to work < 1602904192 643665 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602904200 821906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that's a good sign < 1602904204 680396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was expecting a pingout < 1602904210 784674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the connection did close when I forcibly rebooted it < 1602904215 93767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I lost the connection to the serial console, too) < 1602904509 344190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and back up < 1602904522 520470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just needed to find a rebootier sort of reboot :-D < 1602905685 190617 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602907948 334490 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602909273 413402 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602910888 612760 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602910999 212392 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602915686 547652 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602915712 895535 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1602918060 763391 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602918079 315959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it happened again, and now even properly rebooting isn't helping < 1602918092 995794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this connection to freenode is over IPv6 < 1602918102 51045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just IPv4 that's broken? < 1602918111 309749 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org QUIT :Client Quit < 1602918149 956157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just IPv4 it seems < 1602918775 794133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the connection to Freenode worked because it used IPv6, when I forced an IPv4 connection it wouldn't < 1602918956 416051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I hear IPv6 is the future. Maybe you're in the future? < 1602919101 238899 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, IPv6 is last-century technology < 1602919727 398088 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602920728 575473 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1602921095 330633 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602921985 177803 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602922263 856542 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602922563 157108 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602922946 920170 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1602922956 341915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 connection, I think < 1602923124 405222 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure there's any easy way to tell < 1602923127 123057 :ais523|telnet!~ais523@nethack4.org QUIT :Client Quit < 1602923585 214063 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1602923997 734608 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602924475 763157 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1602926024 954154 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602929207 723449 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602930091 720441 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602930440 331714 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602930978 902939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1602932799 392822 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602932905 405472 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602934386 730449 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602934780 128221 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1602935784 499497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073var14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77997&oldid=44843 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+48) 10What are var > 1602936220 790065 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073var14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77998&oldid=77997 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+23) 10How? (Also I accidentally saved in the prev edit) > 1602936498 223644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073var14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77999&oldid=77998 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+17) 10Linkify > 1602938625 334054 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073var14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78000&oldid=77999 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Hello, World! */ Make link point to non-redirect < 1602939791 947625 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1602941619 203352 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602941636 553786 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1602941804 183757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1602944794 820900 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602946805 331244 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1602948884 421909 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78001&oldid=70930 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-10) 10They say the "User:" prefix is mandatory... < 1602950122 192025 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602952097 695698 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602952557 551659 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602952621 828468 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1602954252 535992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78002&oldid=78001 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+39) 10It does not have to necessarily a 10 by 10 grid. < 1602954832 944435 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1602954882 478611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78003&oldid=78002 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10I like the taste of commas < 1602955129 241745 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1602955221 433059 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1602955536 456257 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[073var14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78004&oldid=78000 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+34) 10Esotericness > 1602955650 961459 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78005&oldid=78003 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-10) 10Userify > 1602956022 157635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78006&oldid=78005 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10Heading + Golfed cat program > 1602956042 44488 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78007&oldid=78006 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2) 10Oop > 1602956092 175573 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78008&oldid=78007 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-4) 10Brackets are not needed < 1602956351 763970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fun with socat: socat TCP-LISTEN:4242,reuseaddr EXEC:'"socat TCP:localhost:4243 EXEC:\"\\\"sh -c \\\\\\\"echo from $SOCAT_PEERADDR; exec socat FD:0 FD:1\\\\\\\"\\\"\",fdin=1,nofork",fdout=0,nofork' < 1602956988 160463 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what it does? < 1602957073 679987 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1602957478 229250 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602957534 300505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It forwards a TCP connection with a twist. < 1602957675 170255 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that twist being? > 1602958366 235991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78009&oldid=78008 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+147) 10Truth-machine < 1602960072 905579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602961728 5313 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wondering what the minimal combinator set is for a flat concatenative language, as in you can't form nested quotations of depth > 1. < 1602961745 890068 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need compose. you'd need apply. < 1602961822 887046 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a way to simulate a "second stack" by repeatedly quoting everything at the top of it (because you can't form a quotation that pushes quotations without a shim), you need something like `pick` or a whole-stack `rot` in order to be TC. < 1602964042 578094 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1602964622 246313 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1602965228 35602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in M:tG, I'm trying to understand the new rules for modal double-faced cards. which rule allows playing a modal double-faced card as a land with its back side up in first place? I don't see it in 711 or 116.2a, and 711.4a plus 711.9 seems to prohibit it. < 1602965435 821136 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, that does seem to be the case; maybe the rule writers made a mistake. < 1602965495 642651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nah, there's probably some tricky rule combination hidden in there < 1602965500 881736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't see it yet < 1602965544 606392 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe; I don't see it either < 1602965578 329113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and the release notes does seem to say that you can play as a land < 1602965651 728967 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, clearly it is supposed to be allowed, although I don't know what rule allows it. < 1602965823 487065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how it interacts with effects like that of Shelldock Isle > 1602965829 416346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78010&oldid=77530 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+82) 10 < 1602965832 203531 :FAKTOR7!~FAKTOR7@130.255.19.203 JOIN :#esoteric > 1602966351 583045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78011&oldid=51611 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+171) 10 > 1602966634 202121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78012&oldid=77860 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+121) 10 < 1602968211 198976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I asked the MTG Salvation forum. the Wizards forum had a nice place to ask these kinds of rules theory questions, one that even Wizards employees frequented, but they shut that forum down. < 1602968751 93394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they point me to https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/819228-radha-mdfc which says that the Comprehensive Rules are indeed very buggy > 1602968812 109176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78013&oldid=78012 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+199) 10By the way, I do not have discord either if you REALLY want to know... < 1602969044 648998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602969092 83222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wondering what the minimal combinator set is for a flat concatenative language, as in you can't form nested quotations of depth > 1 ← you mean, they can't be created even at runtime, rather than simply being inexpressible in the source file? < 1602969136 924168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can create them at runtime, then you don't need many (I think 2 are enough if one of them is very complex) < 1602969148 444101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't, then I think you might run into definitional problems < 1602969193 264752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, https://esolangs.org/wiki/7 doesn't really have a concept of nested quotations, and is entirely flat in terms of its internal storage < 1602969207 474206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the definition of the 6 command is very complex and basically introduces nested quotations by "cheating" < 1602969237 490450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it scans a string for substrings with correctly matched "parentheses" < 1602969283 549322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, there are many ways to cheat if you don't insist on combinators from ordinary combinator calculus < 1602969295 277434 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, nested quotations aren't allowed at runtime or in the source file. < 1602969365 324011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you have one quotation and a function that compiles and evaluates the quoted program in fortran or basic, perhaps you can get away with it without having quotations inside the fortran or basic program. < 1602969370 489603 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basis I have now is dup, drop, swap, left, right, compose, apply, and pre-quoted versions of all of those. < 1602969396 571071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do left/right/compose work? < 1602969400 510263 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :left and right take the bottom of the stack and put it on top, and take the top of the stack and put it on the bottom. < 1602969409 236330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1602969419 74166 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x y z ... n left -> n x y z ... < 1602969424 49443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that's a combinator operation (although of course concatenative languages don't need to be based on combinators) < 1602969443 225472 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x y z ... n right -> y z ... n x < 1602969457 847477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compose is just Underload *, I take it < 1602969471 718094 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose behaves more like list concatenation if anything. < 1602969484 753580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so does Underload * < 1602969495 357205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1602969561 514197 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of compose as "take two commands, "unquote them", and enquote their concatenation, and push that concatenation." < 1602969580 805404 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in quotation-speak, it's... [a] [b] compose -> [a b] < 1602969604 275624 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm borrowing semantics from equipage. < 1602969656 168592 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for the combinatory stuff, yeah, the problem is I think you need _some way_ to access deeper levels within the stack. < 1602969677 608205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there's no way for anything that isn't enclosed in exactly one pair of square brackets to get onto the stack < 1602969679 903845 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need something that reorders the _whole stack_ to get to any arbitrary element. < 1602969681 299560 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one of those small one-tape turing machines help < 1602969713 765257 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if I understand you correctly, yeah. you can't make a quotation that makes quotations, because anything in a quotation gets interpreted directly. < 1602969728 283453 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't form [[dup]] for example. < 1602969733 142994 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can form [dup]. < 1602969743 494081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't form dup either, at least not on the stack < 1602969756 942230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just [dup] or [dup dup] or whatever < 1602969759 42663 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. all things are quoted, then apply unquotes them and adds them to the program. < 1602969773 345735 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an interpreter if you wanna play around. < 1602969855 612321 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/UpbeatScalyRoutes#main.py < 1602969885 488100 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, if you have a "palette" of quoted commands, you can write a quotation that _makes_ another quotation just by virtue of duplicating it, swapping it, etc. < 1602969932 19843 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e if you have a stack of [dup], [drop], [swap], [left], [right], [compose], [apply] and a quotation that selectively picked and grabbed these commands, you could form another quotation out of it. < 1602969940 491624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly offtopic, but "routes" is a terribly choice of word for a word-based URL, no matter how you pronounce it it's confusable with either "routs" or "roots" which are both real words < 1602969964 782777 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it couldn't be nested, but you could form sequences of quotations that "point" to eachother ala left and right. < 1602970014 874433 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is can you do something similar without having commands that affect the entire stack. < 1602970030 767902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: well, the hard part is just to avoid the PDAness of a single stack < 1602970038 915808 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1602970052 625339 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :equipage gets around this via having `pick`. < 1602970080 914599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :.oO(and "router" is pronounced differently if it's for woodworking than if it's for computer networks) < 1602970101 478187 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oxcart gets around this by having a tape of stacks. wagon gets around it by having whole-stack effects. < 1602970122 998733 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and languages that allow runtime nesting of quotations can use this to simulate a secondary stack at-will. < 1602970124 723492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, because you can build arbitrary long quotations, the model we're working in is not actually a PDA < 1602970141 952537 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't know _what_ class it is.. < 1602970180 994378 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602970184 770545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually… Underload is TC with just ():^! (you don't need ! either but we can handle it easily without quotations) < 1602970186 362940 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't exactly "slurp up" portions of the stack and re-order them, because applying the quotation you used to "slurp up" that portion of the stack will be _immediately applied_. < 1602970187 927751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't contain a < 1602970204 454882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that there must be a finite number of combinators that works, with no full-stack effects < 1602970218 215234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it needs at least two levels of quotations, probably more < 1602970219 895396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a ():^! program can only form a finite number of different stack elements during its lifetime, so you could just make them all combinators < 1602970222 759863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :individually < 1602970237 851188 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what b_jonas said. you need the ability to double-nest quotations. < 1602970259 171813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow more complicated combinators as built-ins, then you could encode a small turing-machine with exactly two levels < 1602970260 18474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean, say your program contains ((:^):), you just add ((:^):) and (:^) as combinators < 1602970266 202252 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one level is just terrible < 1602970275 623930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, is one level enough really? hmm < 1602970288 265356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1602970291 873869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there is no nesting, because your combinators are [pushdupapplytwice] and [dupapply] < 1602970317 879505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is right, a single level of nesting is enough < 1602970348 95101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how is this not just a PDA though? it doesn't have * < 1602970373 105683 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your combinators are [[dup apply] dup] and [dup apply]? < 1602970378 98936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, two stacks, one is program, one is stack < 1602970383 6797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: right < 1602970388 304121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that example < 1602970413 413840 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1602970427 253985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, we can get a universal turing machine, translate it to the ~:!()^ subset of Underload < 1602970439 473174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take every single quotation inside the program, at any nesting level, and make it a combinator of its own < 1602970470 295295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we have a (very complex) combinator set that implements a TC concatenative language without quoting, full-tape effects, or cheating < 1602970507 61329 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how isn't that cheating, though? you still have two layers of nesting, you just represent them as a single command. < 1602970535 129151 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover how are you getting rid of garbage? < 1602970546 11881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually this is basically just https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Subtyping_Machine < 1602970550 586267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you use the ! combinator to get rid of garbage < 1602970562 537038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the subset without !, garbage is removed by executing it in a context where all the commands end up cancelling each other out < 1602970589 774070 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your combinator set is apply, dup, [dup apply], [[dup apply] dup]? < 1602970602 921892 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just those three. < 1602970625 5860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: well, that was just a random example < 1602970637 702652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually if you allow any built-in combinators, then it's even simpler than the Underload construction, because you don't need to use : at all, instead just have combinators that push parenthesized list of combinators such that if you tried to expand them to underload you'd get cyclically listed and so infinite source code < 1602970666 466592 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still consider this cheating because you're able to build larger nested structures, only they're in the form of a single command. < 1602970678 273787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need ~! to pick an element from a parenthisized list of combinators, < 1602970723 486025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :either pick the element from a list indexed by states when the head is moving to the left, or from a list indenex by symbols when the head is moving to the right < 1602970748 820588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ^ !!...! ~!~!...~! to keep just one element from a list < 1602970758 702489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are degenerate cases that work, e.g. you have an imperative stack based language that isn't concatenative, and make it concatenative by having a command that looks at the top stack element as a program and lower stack elements as the stack it operates on, then pushes itself back onto the program < 1602970761 470917 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do nothing to execute that one combinator < 1602970799 894396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this is basically just the universal construction for minimalizing any number of combinators down to two < 1602970813 157029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your combinators are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. < 1602970830 332532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you minimalize them to (~)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(!!!!!!!) and ^ < 1602970849 85218 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, "select any set of combinators, re-order them, compose, done" < 1602970919 509244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the number of ! is one more than the the number of preceding quotations, so if you do the monster combinator followed by ^ twice, you get a ! effect; the monster combinator + ! obviously gives you (~) and thus ~, and with the monster combinator, ~ and !, you can get any of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) < 1602970942 677601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. that's not how I was thinking of it, but maybe < 1602970962 256062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this has a lot of intermediate combinators < 1602970977 834098 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few. I think the point is simplifying from the data side, not the program side. < 1602970992 449080 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I can form all lists with the `quote` and `compose` operator. < 1602970996 794648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think about SK combinator calculus, there are basically five combinator families involved: K, K1, S, S1, S2 (K1, S1, S2 are parameterized by the argument that was curried into them) < 1602971019 929755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't use `quote` in a language like this < 1602971029 336653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1602971094 825063 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back to thinking you need arbitrary stack effects. < 1602971115 933100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think about it this way, with a system of unparametrized stack-based combinators. That view is relevant for Consumer Society and its brother language, but I always thought of it as just the special case of implementing a turing-machine, and interfacing that with the full language on entry and exit < 1602971118 960997 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need them unless you're willing to go with a command set that can push quotations. < 1602971133 107144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-tape turing machine < 1602971187 484653 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or really any two-stack finite control machine, it doesn't have to move symbols one to one < 1602971516 644968 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way there needs to be some kind of nesting. < 1602971523 437403 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :of levels > 1. < 1602971587 550872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: no, I think ais523 is right, one level of nesting, namely predetermined lists of combinators, is enough to implement a two-stack machine < 1602971622 563324 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but those lists of combinators need to include arbitrary stack effects, unless I'm missing something. < 1602971676 482130 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the underload two-command minimization, for example, can construct a concatenation of two quotations. < 1602971699 217922 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you already have them on the stack, you just need to drop the ones you don't care about and concatenate the ones you do. < 1602971768 366195 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :either there's an upper bound for the amount of nesting you do or you need arbitrary nesting. a third option is treating the stack like a tape. < 1602971779 184512 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that upper bound is. < 1602971893 332955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to think about it is that the stack + program basically are a tape already < 1602971964 959784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can view a Turing machine like that; represent the left of the tape as the stack, the state of the Turing machine as a special element on top of the stack, and the tape head and elements to its right as commands < 1602971985 565166 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assume that you only have dup, drop, swap, compose and apply, along with single-quoted versions of all of those. would that be enough? < 1602972024 101396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each command looks at the top two stack elements, modifies or pops them if necessary, then "executes" an appropriate number of commands to add elements to its right < 1602972030 53543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the new tape headd < 1602972055 707797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether it's possible to build something like this out of :!~*^ < 1602972078 531855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their single-quoted versions < 1602972101 390273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may come down to the old issue of "where do you store the lookup table?" which is often an issue in proving simple languages TC < 1602972110 669321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nearly always a lookup table, or some sort of equivalent, somewhere < 1602972134 563557 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely that issue. in the TM construction in the article you need at least 3 levels of nesting, I think. < 1602972196 282611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can probably store it in the top stack element, though, or maybe interspersed between adjacent stack elements < 1602972258 279857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, ooh, I get what the problem is: the problem is that you have no way to construct the single-quoted versions at runtime < 1602972262 745613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to copy them around < 1602972274 579567 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1602972295 555954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have some way to construct the single-quoted versions in terms of the unquoted versions then you're good, and that is what the lookup table is needed for < 1602972331 984633 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you were to build a quotation that builds quotations, you'd need to select from an already given palette. then you'd build something that's just a quoted sequence of [dup drop swap left right ...] etc commands that builds another quotation, and then applies it. < 1602972333 997022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem here is that there is more than one single-quoted combinator, but you can't store a single-quoted combinator inside a list < 1602972340 636792 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1602972342 125994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus they need to be stored "loose" on the stack < 1602972347 458776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~ doesn't go deep enough to get past all of them < 1602972352 33493 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeexactly. < 1602972377 487898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dup, drop, compose, apply, rotate top 6 elements, and single-quoted versions of all those should be enough, I believe < 1602972389 966881 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. < 1602972395 317986 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. < 1602972395 557728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, probably needs to be top 7 < 1602972410 970681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe top 6 is enough < 1602972438 916818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only issue is juggling your single-quoted combinators on the stack, so you need enough juggling power to juggle past them and operate on the data underneath < 1602972440 186715 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably need top7 because you still need the currently active combinator. < 1602972444 76652 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1602972459 222065 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what happens when you try to get at the data under that. < 1602972463 258475 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the data under that. < 1602972477 936120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :top 7 is enough to juggle 5 combinators and 2 pieces of data < 1602972493 316584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 5 combinators, plus a duplicate of one of the combinators, plus 1 piece of data < 1602972555 491747 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there would be some cases where you some operations wouldn't be possible that'd be required. I don't know what a lookup table would look like apart from a sequence of quotations that point to eachother. < 1602972564 556739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this basically gives you all of {dup drop compose apply swap} because none of those take more than two arguments, and {push duplicate of single-quoted combinator} because you can just copy one of them and juggle it into place < 1602972567 145963 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative to their position on the stack. < 1602972578 4748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can build a swap out of a rotate by dupping a bunch, rotating, and dropping the duplicates) < 1602972605 714589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lookup table is literally just [dup][drop][compose][apply][rotate] on top of the stack, as 5 loose elements < 1602972614 131850 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1602972624 539771 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I misspoke: a TM's lookup table. < 1602972624 539817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you leave it there the entire program execution, except temporarily to operate on the elements beneath it < 1602972644 879709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a TM's lookup table is the (color, state) → (color, state, movement) map < 1602972656 801225 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but forming that map. < 1602972661 246207 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :within this language. < 1602972712 774111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use enum values like !!!!!!!~!~!~!~!~!~! to store colors and states < 1602972778 188786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even better, you use a construction where a color/state is just !!!…!!!!^ and the element that's executed contains the remanining ! to get rid of the elements that weren't popped or executed < 1602972815 15972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it composes easily, a color can be, say, ! or !! or !!!, a state can be some multiple of !!! followed by ^ < 1602972828 880018 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you preserve the rest of the table? you need to make a state transition more than once. < 1602972830 306113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, composing color with state gives you the appropriate accessor for the lookup table < 1602972841 529479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simulated nested quoting < 1602972850 813617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're juggling single-quoted combinators < 1602972860 729579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can effectively produce a nested list by writing the appropriate list of juggling commands < 1602972879 996513 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiiinteresting. < 1602972880 456992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you can't write [[dup swap][apply rotate]] directly, but you can create a command that produces the elements [dup swap][apply rotate] when executed < 1602972924 867850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beacuse you just need to write the list of commands that juggles your combinators appropriately to produce those two elements, and that list of commands is flat < 1602972925 668000 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you apply the current color to the table to get a quotation that you can apply to do the state transition, which constructs the state table _again_. < 1602972932 88531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1602972936 659429 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :while also performing the actions on the tape. < 1602972942 785824 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is absolutely brilliant. < 1602972947 278215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point it's basically just standard Underload behaviour, except that there is no way to implement a < 1602972954 204490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't need a to write a Turing machine < 1602972967 278303 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was on the tip of my tongue for the past 5 days lmao. < 1602973033 132825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602973092 207459 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the core command set is just {dup drop swap compose apply rot7} and quoted versions, leading to a total of 12 commands. < 1602973094 413318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602973100 319660 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the core command set is just {dup drop swap compose apply rot7} and quoted versions, leading to a total of 12 commands. < 1602973103 572947 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot, sorry. < 1602973161 453307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right now I'm trying to figure out what happens if I have Vastvood Fortification exiled to Isochron Scepter, and I try to cast the back side as a spell without paying its mana cost. normally you can't cast lands because they don't have a mana cost so you can't pay the cost, Dryad Arbor has a mana cost but 305.9 specifically forbids it, and abilities that instruct to cast without mana cost are < 1602973167 796711 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully phrased as "play" instead of "cast" when a land could be used, in which case 601.1a makes it so you'll play it. < 1602973174 451725 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the help ais523. < 1602973513 920757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :711.7 (a rule that doesn't even normally work until future sets are released because the back face never has mana cost) says I can choose the back face, nothing seem to prohibit it, and there's now rule 111.11 that says what happens when the back face up copy resolves. < 1602973519 3658 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the copy of the back face really < 1602973794 191817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do we happen to know what are the smallest two-stack finite control machines, as opposed to the smallest from the more restricted class of Turing machines? < 1602973809 669223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you looked at that for StackFlow < 1602974552 527665 :asie!~asie@asie.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602974635 231430 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"color" in a Turing machine as tape symbols? that would be weird < 1602975271 200009 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that you can't cast the back face, since it is a land, it would seem. < 1602975322 750691 :asie!~asie@asie.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1602975533 449339 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1602976022 223403 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602976051 758584 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602976139 60731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602976725 421202 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602977320 652799 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1602978025 683009 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1602979156 105552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MangularJS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78014&oldid=75209 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, World! */ Fix example to work properly < 1602979174 847719 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1602979366 119614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but where's the rule that says you can't cast a land? < 1602979382 453618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like there's none, though this may get fixed in the next update < 1602979733 642895 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 305.9 says a land that is also another type can't be cast as a spell, but that doesn't say if it is only one. That seems to be a mistake, but I suppose that for now, it would seem to be allowed even if it isn't supposed to be allowed. < 1602980251 249787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602980289 977794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602980358 492871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a card with no types, can you cast it? < 1602980367 604403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming it's in your hand and has a mana cost) < 1602980434 978333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that I'm not convinced the situation can ever arise, but the situation of casting a land on the back of an MDFC seems comparable (except that it doesn't have a mana cost, so you'd need Omniscience or the like) < 1602980597 325392 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1602980753 919732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think there's a way to have a card with no types outside the battlefield < 1602980812 143163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rules are weird about that, if you could get to cast such a thing, it would not enter the battlefield, because it wouldn't count as a permanent spell, it would try to resolve like a sorcery but not quite count as a sorcery in all respects < 1602980865 268068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I don't think there's anything to stop you from casting it from your hand if it has a mana cost < 1602980882 332011 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules say a object with instant or sorcery type cannot enter the battlefield, but I don't know about other ones < 1602980937 123371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1602980941 623125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what would happen < 1602981009 504152 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602981009 650365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant rule is 608.3, that's what moves the spell to the battlefield, but only if it's a "permanent spell", which is defined in 110.4b, which says "an artifact, creature, enchantment, or planeswalker spell" < 1602981108 367796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :608.2k says that an instant or sorcery spell moves to the owner's graveyard when it resolves, after it has done all the other steps for resolving < 1602981124 87802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 608.2k also talks about resolving abilities < 1602981137 17725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :combat damage on stack no longer exists < 1602981181 890971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are of course some replacement abilities that can make a spell move to exile instead of the graveyard when resolving < 1602981222 674588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find what happens with a typeless spell, so if there's no specific rule, it would remain on the stack and try to resolve again after everyone passes < 1602981242 194763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think this can happen in first place < 1602981301 471897 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1602981442 426885 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would seem to be, although it isn't very good and I thought it might make more sense to unify the rules, to change them so that, in general: An resolving object's spell abilities are done first, and then it moves to the battlefield; if it doesn't, it moves to the graveyard; if it still doesn't, it is exiled; and if even then it still doesn't, it ceases to exist. < 1602981452 986215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same thing would happen with a land spell, wouldn't it? < 1602981461 342205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant draw, unless someone chooses to counterspell it < 1602981511 378172 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I think so, unless it is a land with another type, I suppose (although lands with other types cannot be cast anyways, due to 305.9, so it would have to change while on the stack) < 1602981519 922058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netrunner fixes this problem by having playing events/operations (non-permanents), and installing hardware/programs/resources/ice/assets/upgrades/agenda (permanents), being two unrelated actions < 1602981569 993002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's never any problem about how to remove them from the play area after they resolve < 1602981601 868861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there also doesn't seem to be a rule specific for what happens with a copy of a spell if it's not a permanent spell, but the same rules as for a spell that's a card applies to them: if it's an instant or sorcery it goes to the graveyard (and later gets cleaned up), otherwise ?? but that's probably not possible < 1602981618 957382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the type gets copied from the original spell < 1602981620 283933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although, Netrunner also doesn't have counterspells in the traditional sense, to counter someone's install you destroy the thing they installed after it arrives) < 1602981643 782516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. you have a point about the land spell < 1602981719 57803 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See a puzzle I made up some time ago, for another point of view about typeless cards outside of the battlefield (although you will not generally get a chance to cast them, nor will they get a chance to resolve, in the specific situation that I did) < 1602981756 454615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, Netrunner also doesn't have a problem with just leaving things in the play area, over multiple turns if necessary < 1602981790 171024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of events/operations as having triggered abilities that trigger on them being played, causing them to resolve and be trashed < 1602981804 164240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something goes wrong with the ability, they just kind-of sit there until something happens to them < 1602981821 163298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wouldn't work in Magic, because you can counter triggered abilities there < 1602981828 293066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a clever way to avoid having both spells and abilities on the stack < 1602981901 703392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's sometimes used to make operations that take multiple turns to resolve < 1602981930 881771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, I personally think the rule should be that if a spell isn't a sorcery or instant or conspiracy or emblem or plane or phenomenon or scheme or vanguard or contraption then it etb as it resolves. < 1602982001 899199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the really controversial option would be to have a unified list of subtypes (i.e. not needing tribal), and mark artifact and enchantment into permanent subtypes < 1602982008 30114 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The rule I suggested has the same effect that you mentioned I think anyways (although emblem isn't a type at all but a kind, and Contraption is a subtype) < 1602982016 52348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(land is more of a keyword ability, and creatures and planeswalkers have a lot of rules of their own) < 1602982019 854811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but we want to have effects printed on cards that let you cast or play sorceries and creatures uniformly < 1602982032 410007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and keywords like suspend < 1602982039 821297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Netrunner has plentry of the former, they just say "play or install" < 1602982081 575245 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a good way to fix it is with the unified rule I mentioned, together with fixing rule 305.9 so that it says that any object with the type "land" cannot be cast, rather than only saying if it has another type as well as land. < 1602982189 262091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suspend in Netrunner would be worded as "Place 3 power counters on this event rather than trashing it as it resolves. Remove 1 counter at the start of your turn. When it has no counters, trash it and do X" < 1602982210 649822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think it'd be modal, Netrunner doesn't do modal effects very often, so it'd just have the suspend cost") < 1602982234 894393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that wouldn't work for suspend permanents, those would be awkward < 1602982256 360153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also there wouldn't be much reason to not just have them installed normally and not do anything for a few turns, other than being counted < 1602982404 162272 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1602982470 969351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, but in M:tG it's not easy to make creatures "not do anything" for a few turns, because there used to be so many costs payed by sacrificing a creature < 1602982490 679527 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the other place to ask is rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules but that newsgroup doesn't seem to be much in use. < 1602982518 822313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those work even if they're Arrested and Turned to Frog < 1602982601 530687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1602982604 345982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm pointed to https://twitter.com/WotC_Matt/status/1310740942182178817 , where re a bug about a land getting cast as a spell, Matt Tabak says "You shouldn’t be able to play a land because the instruction is to cast. The team tells me this is known and a fix is coming soon." but "fix" refers to the Arena software, not the Comp Rules < 1602982628 630419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if the Arena programmers just read the rules and implemented them as written < 1602982658 830415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I suspect the reverse has happened in some cases, with cards that don't work within the rules being errata'ed based on the implementation on jinteki.net < 1602982662 608104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, Matt Tabak might look at the Comp Rules anyway, plus he already knows that there are problems with the basic rules for modal double-faced cards so he'll fix them, < 1602982673 204971 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should fix the Comp Rules too, I should think. I have suggested before to actually write the rules as a literate computer program (perhaps inventing a programming language for that purpose), as that would make the rules more clearly. < 1602982708 196702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there will probably be more modal double-faced cards in near future sets, for which he'll look at the rules too < 1602982723 800547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just have to wait for the next update and then read what the rules say again < 1602983076 272846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol! today's SMBC is great https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/nudge < 1602983113 856791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a take on Allosaurus president plus asteroid defense mission that didn't come up in Irregular < 1602983304 69825 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the xkcd, I was thinking about why the road traffic rules mention that the middle light of car traffic lights is amber colored. everyone else except the weird formal texts either calls it yellow, or calls it yellow but notes that it looks more like orange, but the rules and teaching material says amber. but I haven't heard anything else described as being amber colored. I have no other reference < 1602983310 100641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to amber color than those lights used as signals for road traffic. < 1602983559 737744 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1602984592 468854 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602985340 988677 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1602986540 480899 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1602987357 992064 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602988558 973326 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1602989462 715540 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1602990669 220588 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602990928 892653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602991183 989101 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1602991455 277819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh there's a dprintf() for printing to fds, interesting. < 1602991576 866963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in POSIX, since 2008) < 1602991871 281154 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602992334 964681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My formatting API lets you printf into a fixed-size buffer. It would be nice if sprintf did that. < 1602992358 521368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is you can't implement fprintf in terms of sprintf or vice versa. < 1602992630 889842 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1602992937 455240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( fork off a thread and fprintf to a pipe ) < 1602993068 785806 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I get what you mean.) < 1602993121 253408 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :deltadoge23 < 1602993588 306868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://shachaf.net/tmp/fmt/fmt.h < 1602993604 616559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think C varargs makes this pretty tricky for printf, though. < 1602993611 426901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also still remember that you've worked on this. < 1602993625 787150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, do I just post the same things in here over and over again? < 1602993676 851822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, C varargs are invalidated as soon as the function returns, which makes it harder. < 1602993706 319550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could scan over the format string once to copy the varargs values? But I'm not sure you'd want to. < 1602993812 742736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is fmemopen and open_memstream, and all of the printf variants return the length of the result, in case those things are needed. < 1602993862 140629 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there is that problem with varargs that you mention. < 1602993883 722838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that still needs you to have enough memory for the result at once, I suppose. < 1602993902 122390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: We all have our own little pet topics, I suppose. < 1602993928 728092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl libc uses a FILE * with a write callback argument for vfprintf. < 1602993981 316035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe glibc does something similar. < 1602993992 831590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I did change the API since last time I mentioned it, I think. < 1602994108 697334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh poking in FILE * interna, hmm. < 1602994142 612285 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. fopencookie < 1602994158 4108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a fun name... < 1602994171 331022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't know that. < 1602994176 569757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a GNU extension. < 1602994196 764703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1602994202 581858 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1602994239 296193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. And it's still a funny name. < 1602994340 977931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too bad that this isn't standardized so you get reimplementations like https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/BIO < 1602994355 212600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where nothing ever fits with anything else < 1602994505 704208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too bad libc mixes "language" convenience things (that maybe ought to just be a regular library statically linked into your program) with "OS" things. < 1602995310 269650 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1602995633 552551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I guess you wouldn't really like fopencookie anyway... because it allocates from the heap. < 1602995651 163371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I hate all heap allocations? < 1602995679 231617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're interacting with libc things like FILE * functions it seems too far gone to worry about things like that. < 1602995684 966591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite, just the not strictly necessary ones. < 1602995690 406405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably calls malloc 20 times before breakfast. < 1602995919 831326 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it leads to things like FILE *f = fopencookie(s, "a", cb); if (!f) { errno = ENOMEM; return -1; } < 1602995941 172779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, that seems annoying. < 1602996018 814772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly it seems entirely gratuitous when an API makes you do that many times for no reason, like posix_spawn. < 1602996168 747675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. It seems to work... https://paste.debian.net/1167655/ < 1602996197 320701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing malloc failures never happen. < 1602996203 658058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on Linux. < 1602996222 984888 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an entirely different pet peeve :P < 1602996264 981978 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often use a macro to check for memory allocation errors < 1602996277 73635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you're OK with GNU extensions + allocation, you could use asprintf. < 1602996280 430406 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever, I need some fresh air, and then I can figure out how to wrap up this toy program. < 1602996306 821535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which would be perfectly okay for my use, but less interesting :P < 1602996307 506993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The allocation is theoretically variable-sized but maybe it's fine in practice for all uses of printf. < 1602996339 742499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no attacker controlled format strings or format lengths or string sizes) < 1602996393 533095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now that I have already written that code... what's the point in using asprintf :) < 1602996488 128181 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your program uses SQLite for whatever reason, you can use the SQL printf function if you need safe dynamic printf. (If not, you can still copy the printf implementation from SQLite into your own program, and modify it to work with your program rather than SQLite.) < 1602996518 623658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not happening < 1602996611 521375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this toy program? < 1602996704 873033 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's too bad libc mixes "language" convenience things (that maybe ought to just be a regular library statically linked into your program) with "OS" things. ← it's unclear what should be an "OS" thing anyway, just system calls? < 1602996719 54628 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the reason libcs exist is that some things are system calls on some OSes but library functions on others < 1602996730 8577 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS-DOS has malloc as a system call, for example (not sbrk) < 1602996775 752114 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think you can get a lot of efficiency out of MMU abuse nowadays < 1602996792 979482 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx has both (although you cannot use both at the same time). < 1602996824 101515 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how fast a queue implementation is that just writes through address space continuously, freeing the back of the queue when getting close to memory exhaustion < 1602996838 123020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's very reasonable for programs to include their own malloc implementation rather than defer to libc. < 1602996853 442172 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a 2⁶⁴ address space you never run out < 1602996878 381463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw this post about that mentioned it (among other things) the other day: https://tratt.net/laurie/blog/entries/why_arent_more_users_more_happy_with_our_vms_part_1.html < 1602996882 538713 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a malloc of my own for fun a while back, it seemed to have decent performance in benchmarks (although I could only find one malloc benchmarker) < 1602996884 460390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Search for "binary trees", I think.) < 1602996894 596664 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also was async-signal-safe, which is useful for some purposes < 1602996921 123713 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. you could malloc or free from a signal handler, without causing issues as long as you don't free something that's currently in use) < 1602997066 115598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this might be a silly question, but if I have an array [..., a0, a1, a2, b0, b1, ...] and I want to swap the as and bs in-place, is there a good thing to do? < 1602997091 34763 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap a0 and b0, then a1 and b1, etc. < 1602997099 942288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, two contiguous subarrays. < 1602997104 75957 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most efficient swap algorithm on x86 is probably read, read, write, write < 1602997104 502735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :as and bs aren't the same length. < 1602997121 700012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the fact that they're subarrays of a bigger array is irrelevant here. < 1602997122 855435 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean move the bs to before the as < 1602997130 234814 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so abcdAB becomes ABabcd < 1602997134 334110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's right. < 1602997180 884717 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardest case mathematically appears to be the case where one of the arrays is only one element long < 1602997198 372506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in my actual case the second array is always either one or two elements long. < 1602997199 784609 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you clearly have to store it in temporary storage, move all the elements of the other array one element along, and put that one element back < 1602997211 80843 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glulx has both malloc and sbrk as instructions (not system calls). < 1602997219 701610 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other cases all reduce to this one after some silly modular arithmetic < 1602997222 154210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a constant amount of temporary storage, though, that's fine. < 1602997234 209606 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you take the gcd of the lengths of the two arrays < 1602997248 657742 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's greater than 1 you operate on every gcdth element independently < 1602997261 827725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do everything in-place by moving one element at a time, but I'm hoping there's something better. < 1602997294 466042 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the lengths of the two arrays are coprime, then you can move one element at a time, yes < 1602997302 67467 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the cache locality of that has to be horrible < 1602997334 145984 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, probably the fastest algorithm is just three memcpys < 1602997348 706208 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with appropriate caching hints set) < 1602997362 555631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are arrays of pointers in this case. < 1602997390 151984 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although caching hints on modern x86_64 aren't very good, you basically have a choice of "I will use the data again soon" and "I will not use this data again soon" < 1602997406 692563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what do you mean by three memcpys? < 1602997455 270733 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy the shorter array to temporary storage, memmove (not memcpy, sorry) the longer array into position, memcpy the shorter array back < 1602997469 486991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sure. < 1602997482 733083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was probably going to be my default thing. < 1602997507 878513 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the special case when the arrays are nicely page-aligned, where you just reconfigure the MMU so that the logical memory maps into physical memory in a different way, but that's not going to be very applicable and probably produces hilarious results if you do it repeatedly < 1602997551 3373 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern processors are pretty good at block copies of memory, though < 1602997572 779734 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some benchmarking a while back on what the fastest way to write the results of a calculation into memory were < 1602997579 309099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which: Is it actually the case that many modern CPU L1 caches are limited to 32 KB because that's the page size times the number of cache ways? < 1602997597 736421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As opposed to other factors?) < 1602997659 632592 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unlikely to be a limiting factor, the main limiting factor on L1 caches is connecting them to the rest of the CPU < 1602997668 752426 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that allows the data to get there fast < 1602997699 657659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what else does a virtually-indexed physically-tagged cache do if not that? < 1602997777 298873 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the cache use a different sort of addressing internally would be a pretty minor change, compared to trying to figure out how to connect more memory to the CPU at L1 speeds < 1602997820 254087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected that it would be something more like what you're saying, but I heard this claim, and I'm not sure. In practice you do see this kind of limit. < 1602997871 297341 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if physical limits on the L1 cache meant that it could only be a certain size, so there was no need to create a caching algorithm that could deal with larger sizes because it wouldn't be useful anyway < 1602997882 69069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not clear to me that it would be a minor change. I think people do it to be able to start the L1 cache lookup earlier, before the TLB lookup, which people say is pretty important to make it fast enough. < 1602998051 198225 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of the TLB disappoints me < 1602998077 841707 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, I think that even if you don't prefetch data, it makes a huge amount of sense to prefetch TLB entries < 1602998100 782541 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that it could reasonably not even be a cache, just a "prepare to read/write here…read/write here" sequence < 1602998158 276169 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would also kind-of make sense to have a manually managed L1 cache (this presumably has to get flushed to at least L2 during a context switch, but the L1 cache rarely survives a context switch anyway) < 1602998200 48228 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like zero page on the 6502, as a sort of memory bank that's particularly fast to use < 1602999994 538707 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603002737 291863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: libc has functions to open a FILE* that's a stringstream, or one that is attached to a file descriptor but doesn't close it on fclose. the former lets you implement sscanf from fscanf, the latter is more useful, it lets you fprintf to a file descriptor, or more importantly, mix other kinds of file abstractions (eg. C++, perl, python, rust file handles) easily with FILE*. < 1603002747 718442 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603002762 552115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but as for formatting to a fixed-sized buffer, that's what snprintf is for < 1603002799 298091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :snprintf is for formatting to a buffer that's big enough to print everything all in one go. < 1603002828 630228 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, glibc also has a way to create a FILE* with custom read/write callbacks < 1603002838 175601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That is what int-e used. < 1603002864 778391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a documented API for it < 1603002872 258082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my string formatter doesn't need any of those, not even callbacks. < 1603002890 604711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's resumable so you can format into a buffer, do something with it, and then use it again. < 1603003462 536148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "with a 2⁶⁴ address space you never run out" => yes, but (a) sometimes you want to malloc to a smaller arena in order to have multiple buffers each of which you can free at once without iterating on all its blocks (b) or to be able to use 32-bit indexes within an arena; (c) the address space is 47 bits in practice, not 64 bits; < 1603003550 795581 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) even aside from those I have the feeling that your malloc has some non-obvious drawbacks, such as using too many page table entries and so making the page table cache (called "translation something buffer" or TLB on x86) inefficient and so slowing all memory access down, even the memory access outside your malloced space, and possibly making the OS work harder to handle the metadata for your address < 1603003556 852168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1603003615 872432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, so why isn't snprintf good for you? do you want to be able to continue formatting with the same arguments after your buffer runs out or something? if you want that, that's basically all that a FILE* does, with a few more words of metadata for how to read and seek < 1603003650 153014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, FILE * doesn't present this interface at all, in general. < 1603003662 576519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc does give you the interface, but it makes you use callbacks. < 1603003696 346486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok, so why is snprintf not good for what you want? < 1603003707 210128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or its openbsd variant, if there's one < 1603003720 521723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :snprintf requires you to have a buffer that's big enough for the entire output. < 1603003737 454445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no openbsd variant < 1603003742 299324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't write fprintf in terms of snprintf without something like allocation. < 1603003766 884861 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right, so what do you want to do if the buffer runs out, other than detecting that condition like snprintf does and possibly getting a prefix? < 1603003793 733699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to be able to do something with the buffer (like write it to a file) and then continue where I left off. < 1603003800 531662 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603003821 692865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok, but do you want that as a callback, or do you want to call the formatting function back, or something else? < 1603003833 904085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to call the formatting function. < 1603003841 692967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more flexible than a callback. < 1603003844 773940 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has to somehow remember where it stopped? < 1603003854 19200 :deltadoge23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603003857 934331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1603003865 522941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example the library I linked above does that. < 1603003867 651470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's harder to implement from the formatter side, unless you want to give it a stack so it works as a user-space coroutine < 1603003894 399595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever wanted such an interface, but if you want that, sure < 1603003912 183802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's more work to make flexible general libraries than ones that only work for a particular use. < 1603003928 439445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then my code has to remember all the formatting arguments too, and what memory they refer to, and all that < 1603003930 772734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a callback alternative would probably be OK, just more annoying to use. But standard C doesn't even give you that. < 1603003947 712342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. Maybe C varargs just aren't up to the task. < 1603003951 501335 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the callback alternative is the FILE*-based one in glibc < 1603003969 104988 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say it uses a few extra calls of malloc, which is admittedly true < 1603003973 965389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in glibc you can do it. < 1603003989 9649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I wasn't really objecting to that malloc, I think that was someone else. < 1603004003 394622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has to be implemented somewhere first. "it's not standardized" is not an excuse, you start with an implementation for stuff like this, not with a standard. < 1603004033 530458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are similar implementations of custom streams in lots of other libraries < 1603004112 56428 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C++ standard library has something like that now I think, I think boost had something similar but probably with a worse formatter, < 1603004112 200708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I doubt I'd want the glibc solution to be standardized. < 1603004116 962313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: The toy program is a proxy that provides SSL wrapping for a local service... with the twist that it also tells the local service where the request came from. < 1603004134 299551 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are based on something like C++ streams < 1603004138 674438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I was only saying why I don't want to use the glibc function, not whether it's an excuse or not. < 1603004195 311589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a moment, there was another non-libc library that may have one but I can't find it < 1603004200 905453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, TLS with TCP fast open is still not really workable, right? < 1603004230 962750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that is < 1603004246 184490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Anyway, difficulty of standardization is the reason I was saying I don't really want to be using a standardized library for this. < 1603004265 988903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_Fast_Open < 1603004273 129935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing they do to save a roundtrip establishing a TLS connection. Since normally you have the TCP handshake first, followed by the TLS negotiation. < 1603004306 92281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, now I remember, TCP fast open uses this cookie. < 1603004312 976715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's probably not even something you want to use. < 1603004322 396614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, hmm, that's irrelevant for what I'm doing. < 1603004422 392511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought apache APR has something like this, but no < 1603004443 604702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: anyway, the hardest part of implementing something like this is that printing and scanning floating-point numbers correctly is crazy hard. < 1603004452 617331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1603004453 247451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :correctly and efficiently, even harder < 1603004470 399191 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C code always gets so long. < 1603004490 790948 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This trivial-ish program is 301 lines now. < 1603004499 197816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with hardly any comments < 1603004518 312741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing to make it user-friendly. < 1603004520 10882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's why I don't write C programs anymore, only C++. < 1603004531 598507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1603004569 386243 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can reduce the effect that every 2nd line is for error handling. < 1603004644 338472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every second line being error handling sounds more like a library problem than a language problem. < 1603004647 563225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on the code. < 1603004690 7669 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: every function can potentially fail, and there's no exceptions that would maybe allow to collect several kinds of errors in a single place. < 1603004706 949261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least for this kind of IO heavy code) < 1603004707 54363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: re move one array before the other when they're adjacent, there's a function that does that, https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/rotate , but usually it's easier if you have a separate buffer that you can move into < 1603004772 713876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"probably the fastest algorithm is just three memcpys" => basically yes, although one of them should be a memmove unless you're careful < 1603004806 64134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is a C++ page. I know: I'll look in /usr/include/c++/ and see if I can figure out what it does. < 1603004870 688849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'you basically have a choice of "I will use the data again soon" and "I will not use this data again soon"' => technically there's also "I'll never use this data again, don't bother flushing it from cache" < 1603004903 278768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many levels of indirection before finding the implementation? < 1603004939 976802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, only two, very good. < 1603005014 130446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "trying to figure out how to connect more memory to the CPU at L1 speeds" => I'm convinced the thing that stops that is the minimum page size, which is 4096 bytes on x86, and can't be increased unless you break compatibility with a lot of existing software, because the L1 cache has to do enough address calculation to know where to start to look before the results from the TLB arrives, so you < 1603005020 53112 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't have more than 8*4096 bytes of L1 cache (per type (data vs code) and cpu core) < 1603005039 941649 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rust everything c/c++ :p < 1603005041 51740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That's what I was saying. < 1603005065 362454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prefetch TLB entries" => you could do that by prefetching one word from each page < 1603005066 676895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure whether that's really the limiting factor. It seems pretty silly compared to the thing ais523 was saying. < 1603005086 291548 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think even then I do want a TLB to exist, and a large one ideally < 1603005090 402895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it disappoints you < 1603005115 180843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, it's a C++ page, because it has a C++ interface < 1603005140 816240 :FAKTOR7!~FAKTOR7@130.255.19.203 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603005172 746864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also be careful when using the actual function, I think it had a bug in older versions of gcc where it wasn't binary compatible between two versions of gcc if you ever called it with zero offset or some such nonsense < 1603005182 890833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to look it up now < 1603005191 717226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using C++ so it doesn't matter. < 1603005227 350323 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think that's the limiting factor *now*. obviously if you increase the minimum page size, there'll be another limiting factor very soon, but even just doubling the L1 cache size would help a lot < 1603005249 581398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would help a lot for some code, obviously; some code isn't bound by that < 1603005258 632174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Another thing that could help is page coloring, requiring physically adjacent pages to be mapped together. < 1603005270 880186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"physically" adjacent < 1603005281 564981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know what that means < 1603005286 790844 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :page coloring? < 1603005295 527502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_coloring < 1603005341 372852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of intermediate between the current situation and actually changing the page size. < 1603005343 191396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :color all your hot memory regions red with the blood of your enemies that you sacrifice to the gods thanking them for giving your computer better performance for memory accesses < 1603005374 956812 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from the blood of sacrifical animals as well < 1603005410 290525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :use their livers for haruspexy to predict near future memory access and prefetch them as well while you're there < 1603005415 511329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, require each even page n to be mapped next to page n+1. < 1603005472 86942 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1603006041 174449 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603006356 690533 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603006421 693331 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603006429 378939 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603006615 277524 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cookie write functions are not allowed to return negative values < 1603008383 362619 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603008534 496068 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603008663 928341 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603009147 734470 :M8Crumble!6e938618@110.147.134.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603009162 626501 :M8Crumble!6e938618@110.147.134.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :52*"!dlroW olleH">:# ,# _@ > 1603012139 179512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78015&oldid=76480 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2) 10Make it into a paragraph so it can be more readable. < 1603012684 79125 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603017539 916777 :M8Crumble!6e938618@110.147.134.24 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603018540 922993 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603019206 630192 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603019356 65943 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603020909 753450 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT : < 1603022010 203539 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603022417 864218 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603024179 115819 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603024422 957341 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603026476 132959 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603026497 9404 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603026676 605393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Streetcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78016&oldid=73180 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Ambiguous turns */ Fix a grammar which is the bad grammar < 1603029937 104545 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603030979 410622 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603031678 150109 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603032348 716981 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603032910 882246 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603034188 267563 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603034658 182239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78017 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12178) 10Created page with "{{WIP}} '''OpenStreetCode''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] based on [https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ JOSM], an editor for [https://www.openstreetmap.org/ Ope..." > 1603035349 825098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Modulous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78018&oldid=77131 5* 03Abyxlrz 5* (+161) 10 > 1603035360 370752 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Modulous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78019&oldid=78018 5* 03Abyxlrz 5* (+1) 10 > 1603039072 601837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78020&oldid=78017 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+404) 10/* Use of elements */ > 1603039376 702019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Aryantech123 5* 10New user account > 1603039522 113908 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78021&oldid=77942 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+88) 10 > 1603039635 178927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78022&oldid=78021 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+30) 10 > 1603039970 642331 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainflub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78023&oldid=53136 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+154) 10 > 1603040463 177753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78024&oldid=78020 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Instruction table */ Fix table and header > 1603041046 233171 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78025&oldid=77993 5* 03Masldobehere 5* (+11) 10/* S */ > 1603041416 435641 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78026&oldid=78024 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+116) 10/* Instruction table */ > 1603041427 103870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78027&oldid=78026 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Memory */ < 1603043149 473995 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603043698 996019 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603045118 897846 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603046786 362919 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603047788 967367 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603048029 956013 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603048099 629534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78028&oldid=78027 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+593) 10/* Use of elements */ > 1603048920 524145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78029&oldid=78028 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+468) 10/* Relations */ > 1603048950 509568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78030&oldid=78029 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10No longer WIP > 1603049007 554616 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78031&oldid=75825 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+91) 10 > 1603049026 402945 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78032&oldid=78031 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Languages */ fix name > 1603049078 485403 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78033&oldid=78025 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* O */ Add [[OpenStreetCode]] > 1603049237 428121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78034&oldid=78030 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+177) 10/* Use of elements */ > 1603049498 127455 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Owk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78035&oldid=66419 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10Fix page formatting > 1603050416 695329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:OpenStreetScript print A.png10]]": File for an [[OpenStreetScript]] example > 1603050447 904282 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07File:OpenStreetScript print A.png14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78037&oldid=78036 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Summary */ > 1603050465 650217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10moved [[02File:OpenStreetScript print A.png10]] to [[File:OpenStreetCode print A.png]]: Correct name > 1603050574 622860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78040&oldid=78034 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10/* Print the letter A */ > 1603050581 172019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78041&oldid=78040 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-6) 10/* Examples */ image > 1603050599 606728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:OpenStreetCode print A.png10]]": Shrink a bit > 1603050668 942369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:OpenStreetCode print A.png10]]": Upload a smaller version (no white-space to the right and bottom) < 1603050994 227947 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603053390 253709 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1603053390 253788 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1603053390 253804 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1603053390 400478 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-gvfwvshntysrjsbr QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1603054155 507373 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1603054348 132763 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603054363 201549 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-crqptgmczkinoork JOIN :#esoteric < 1603054711 100716 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603055242 687476 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603055525 458403 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1603055943 276161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Almost Binary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78044&oldid=73149 5* 03Wsdt 5* (+74) 10 > 1603055979 323784 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Almost Binary14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78045&oldid=78044 5* 03Wsdt 5* (-27) 10 < 1603057580 76735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603057865 572121 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603058371 326440 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603058477 141928 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603059245 256517 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603059868 205827 :deltadoge23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603059878 202865 :deltadoge23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :deltaepsilon23 < 1603059918 214889 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1603059947 35546 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603060028 700031 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603060435 710276 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603060708 746343 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603062901 633613 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603062995 620951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl... I'm reading the specifications of a desktop speaker, and there's an entry saying "Waterproof: no" < 1603063121 635725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, waterproofing is important for the times when you drink and read or watch something funny at the same time. < 1603063201 655567 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603063721 300977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't waterproof speakers pretty common? < 1603063765 465900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For outdoor use? < 1603063792 121985 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. But "desktop" doesn't suggest any need for waterproofing to me. < 1603063849 795096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speakers tend not to be waterproof by themselves... they're roomy, have cardboard pieces, possibly some cloth... < 1603063961 906899 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side, the specifications are detailed. finally. < 1603063964 316000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll buy this one. < 1603063992 17846 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603064888 399183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, I pressed the wrong button < 1603065002 430866 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1603065112 442254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed the browser at just the critical time when I have submitted the card payment details that would finalize my order, but it hasn't told me that the order is confirmed yet < 1603065139 779109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it didn't go through, but if it did then I'll end up in a stupid wedged state where I have to cancel an order < 1603065288 426147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-d (mute/unmute microphone in Google Meet) and C-r (reload a tab in Chrome) are relatively close by, I've dropped off a few meetings that way. < 1603065319 589526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh < 1603065343 448884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now this attempt succeeded, I have ordered the goodies < 1603065363 132587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including that speaker set < 1603065431 36147 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a mechanical keyboard that's more expensive than my previous one, the one that felt really great to type on but lasted for only two and a half years < 1603065533 736358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a pair of speakers, and the right channel has started to go silent; happened twice now, each time coming back after maybe half an hour. I hope that doesn't mean it's going to break. It doesn't seem like it's just flaky connectors or cables or anything; also the right speaker's the one that's got the amplifier and volume knob, while the entirely passive left one (that's connected to the right < 1603065539 708891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :one) works just fine. < 1603065594 855645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. and it's a problem with the signal that you're feeding into it either, or a volume or balance setting somewhere, right? < 1603065610 682813 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603065677 486439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. Heaphones from the DAC that's feeding the speakers have both channels working. I guess it's still technically possible it's the specific speaker output of the DAC that's the problem. Probably should double-check by swapping the L/R cables next time it happens. < 1603065678 486816 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my game boy cart screwdriver bit hasn't arrived. I'm looking at the shipping details, it says it's a tracked package up to 2020-08-24 when it entered Hungary, so it might be lost, but the estimated delivery date is 2020-08-25/2020-10-18 so I'll wait a bit more < 1603065719 176106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one is at least cheap, I ordered it from China on ebay knowing the risk that it might not arrive and I can just buy a new one < 1603065808 666042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebay, as usual, doesn't allow reviewing items unless they arrive very soon, it's optimized for the US basically < 1603065819 475776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for times without covid < 1603065851 371316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the batteries has arrived < 1603065894 987479 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should also ask around if anyone has that weird screwdriver bit and I can just borrow < 1603065935 535708 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603067216 872592 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603069101 622312 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603069392 370358 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603069714 415500 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603070980 47319 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603071196 151686 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603071404 36834 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603071483 296018 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603071680 143123 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603072664 124161 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603072948 121525 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603074244 630073 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 PART :#esoteric < 1603075909 486273 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603076181 574039 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603078481 304656 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603079159 732857 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603079413 680228 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603079418 53218 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1603080579 544950 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603082405 455129 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603082710 270947 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603083507 940589 :xgqt!~xgqt@static62133140007.ostnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603085655 173878 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603085934 199847 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1603086944 186686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Aryantech12314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78046 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+202) 10sTUFF IG hIThUB < 1603087568 779466 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1603088241 168860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cut14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78047&oldid=71610 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+389) 10 > 1603088635 71661 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Aryantech12314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78048&oldid=78046 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+241) 10 < 1603088897 20338 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603089184 35453 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603090345 607611 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603090636 481408 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603091821 195744 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603092451 722849 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603094879 713952 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ribethings 5* 10New user account < 1603094904 50846 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603094979 598876 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603095023 874196 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1603095072 746180 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78049&oldid=78022 5* 03Ribethings 5* (+173) 10 < 1603095462 647426 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603095718 280732 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603095774 837932 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603100193 584096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in M:tG it's interesting how most combat buffs on a creature have basically the same cost if it's an instant that acts until end of turn or if it's an aura without flash. but +3/+3 is the big exception: as an instant it's Giant Growth for {G}, although that is considered somewhat cheap; as an aura it costs between two and three green mana < 1603100324 441414 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oakenform and Hardened-Scale Armor costs {2}{G}, but there are now similar auras for {2}{G} with an advantage: Elephant Guide and Boar Umbra and Moldervine Cloak < 1603100356 640592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Vow of Wildness < 1603102344 853726 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603102393 561694 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.180 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1603103567 218878 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603104076 373628 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :deltameo23 < 1603104106 605406 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603105628 495883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:9914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78050 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+133) 10Uh, how? < 1603105787 657454 :deltameo23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603105947 710899 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuuh, there is some sanity plan in place to ensure OpenStreetCode programs don't accidentally get uploaded to OSM, right? ...right? > 1603106624 46341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-gram14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78051&oldid=51194 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+97) 10Linkify + Ignorance > 1603107090 488831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A-gram14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78052&oldid=78051 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+2) 10Clarification of commands < 1603110072 918758 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603111689 788222 :asie!~asie@asie.pl QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1 < 1603111777 251946 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1603112715 323957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to work from home again. I set up my work laptop next to the new computer, so there's now a terrible tangled mess of cables on the desk. < 1603113916 230056 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 PART :#esoteric < 1603114181 299923 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603114209 891902 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603114376 577477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Abyxlrz14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78053&oldid=77133 5* 03Abyxlrz 5* (-134) 10/* Esolang(s) */ < 1603114457 290288 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603114485 7171 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1603114916 556339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1217 < 1603114918 560599 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1217.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1603115426 636741 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603116012 65241 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603116653 268088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in M:tG, I wonder if the recent card Lithoform Engine helps in the kind of M:tG constructions that you make. it can copy almost any spell or ability (other than mana abilities), and has multiple uses. Especially because it's the easiest way to copy an enchantment many times. < 1603116742 458208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't match well with your existing construction, it's more something you'd have to build an engine around. < 1603117175 707419 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603117553 173715 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1603118304 263754 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603118428 804540 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603118513 901790 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603118514 131492 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 QUIT :Changing host < 1603118514 131536 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603122686 433523 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603123076 632910 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1603123316 636349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Delog! 5* 10New user account < 1603123328 631583 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603124250 608127 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603125239 852947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78054&oldid=78049 5* 03Delog! 5* (+13) 10 > 1603125243 563481 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78055 5* 03Delog! 5* (+1876) 10DIASYS EN LA FORT. > 1603125307 320733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78056&oldid=78055 5* 03Delog! 5* (+25) 10 > 1603125329 394305 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78057&oldid=78056 5* 03Delog! 5* (+3) 10 > 1603125355 69636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78058&oldid=78057 5* 03Delog! 5* (+1) 10 > 1603125373 380209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78059&oldid=78058 5* 03Delog! 5* (+6) 10 > 1603125425 680395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78060&oldid=78059 5* 03Delog! 5* (+1) 10 > 1603125687 757385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78061&oldid=78033 5* 03Delog! 5* (+13) 10 < 1603126597 640555 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603126726 673261 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603126917 339412 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603128616 605974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Vgpfijzwm 5* 10New user account < 1603128655 109961 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603128776 690110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78062&oldid=78054 5* 03Vgpfijzwm 5* (+96) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603128856 567504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78063&oldid=77994 5* 03Vgpfijzwm 5* (-39621) 10Blanked the page < 1603128934 40661 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh > 1603128992 332697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78064&oldid=78063 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+39621) 10Undo revision 78063 by [[Special:Contributions/Vgpfijzwm|Vgpfijzwm]] ([[User talk:Vgpfijzwm|talk]]) < 1603129315 340239 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie can you do something about this spam account please? > 1603129436 483555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/block14]]4 block10 02 5* 03Fizzie 5* 10blocked [[02User:Vgpfijzwm10]] with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Removing content from pages < 1603130240 734793 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603130286 299772 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603130379 56097 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:DIASYS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78065 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+185) 10Talk page entry < 1603133862 293734 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.196.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603133905 746833 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603133995 58155 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.196.111 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1603134022 1953 :Pumawesome!ad2e6678@173.46.102.120 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603134033 911285 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIASYS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78066&oldid=78060 5* 03Delog! 5* (-1912) 10Blanked the page < 1603134035 630445 :Pumawesome!ad2e6678@173.46.102.120 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603134067 371179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78067&oldid=78061 5* 03Delog! 5* (-13) 10 < 1603135147 709466 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603135358 658408 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603136897 666766 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603137998 172566 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:9914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78068&oldid=78050 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+438) 10Reply to question < 1603139233 599246 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1603141221 714339 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07OpenStreetCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78069&oldid=78041 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+45) 10/* Text */ Add missing categories < 1603142866 304696 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603142989 166925 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603142989 387631 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.196.111 QUIT :Changing host < 1603142989 387669 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603143726 848336 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603145289 206027 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603145309 53299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ribethings14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78070 5* 03Ribethings 5* (+1) 10Created page with "k" < 1603145322 111271 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603145349 341394 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603146375 188286 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Trueclone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78071&oldid=76617 5* 03Ribethings 5* (-41) 10 < 1603146990 837138 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603147226 576639 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603148153 11263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Emerald14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78072&oldid=77465 5* 03Emerald 5* (+43) 10/* Languages I made: */ > 1603148718 748386 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dig 214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78073 5* 03Emerald 5* (+86) 10Made > 1603148769 438602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Emerald14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78074&oldid=78072 5* 03Emerald 5* (+10) 10/* Dig 2 (WIP) */ > 1603149333 400881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dig 214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78075&oldid=78073 5* 03Emerald 5* (+1286) 10Dig commands > 1603149635 953251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Maze14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78076&oldid=38908 5* 03Breadbunbun 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ < 1603150256 244456 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-crqptgmczkinoork QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603150327 786845 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603150333 83019 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603150333 659052 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603150724 458582 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603151262 666816 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603151404 470221 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603151588 774052 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1603151621 922127 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603160657 71466 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603164251 530124 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1603168333 637025 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1603168360 627455 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603168377 847978 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1603168799 697103 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603168909 708362 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603177609 670152 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603177814 802354 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603181514 423691 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603181912 229625 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.180 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603182923 489857 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:24f8:4bd3:320b:7e4b JOIN :#esoteric > 1603184463 930718 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Marthue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78077&oldid=77694 5* 03Yoel 5* (+26) 10 > 1603184653 767124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nutes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78078&oldid=73290 5* 03Yoel 5* (-9) 10 < 1603185350 295343 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603185716 431016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Maze14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78079&oldid=78076 5* 03Breadbunbun 5* (-5) 10/* External resources */ > 1603185808 816434 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Maze14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78080&oldid=78079 5* 03Breadbunbun 5* (+2) 10/* External resources */ < 1603185900 174877 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jnlissfejhbqwqdc QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603185915 703950 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oexpqeeoarmugxwq QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603185917 398533 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wrwrnsouswrrhlxy QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603186030 732617 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603186065 591891 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric > 1603186107 333985 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Maze14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78081&oldid=78080 5* 03Breadbunbun 5* (+74) 10/* External resources */ < 1603186481 595789 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lsxrpqzsmeejpxmc JOIN :#esoteric < 1603187437 631472 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1603187515 55075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nutes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78082&oldid=78078 5* 03Yoel 5* (-415) 10 < 1603187552 18266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603187900 359281 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zcdsmnjqbgycinsi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603187900 359327 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xtwdaaxwztupehib JOIN :#esoteric < 1603188100 133456 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.197.229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603188234 107056 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603188241 501910 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.197.229 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1603188942 40970 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lsxrpqzsmeejpxmc NICK :Discordian[m] < 1603191099 971297 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603192134 850216 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.180 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1603193862 11301 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:24f8:4bd3:320b:7e4b QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1603197278 582842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Linear bounded brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78083&oldid=74455 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Truth-machine */ Fix the truth-machine so it outputs ASCII 48/49 < 1603198231 636421 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603199199 984781 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.197.229 QUIT :Changing host < 1603199199 984845 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603200003 550485 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1603200003 550550 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1603200003 550564 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1603200003 550572 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1603201471 736967 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603201919 292814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603206228 213210 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-wjncujwrurlswxil JOIN :#esoteric < 1603206588 692299 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-wjncujwrurlswxil QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1603206866 777844 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603206909 457067 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1603207003 676504 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603207287 420867 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603207315 59126 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603208507 686847 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603209074 917334 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603211399 785230 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603211951 703193 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1603212384 706451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NoRAL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78084 5* 03DMC 5* (+53) 10Created page with "Wow! Somebody added a Javascript interpreter! Thanks!" > 1603212595 75003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78085&oldid=76634 5* 03DMC 5* (-36) 10/* Orthodox Bitter */ > 1603213958 983903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:NoRAL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78086&oldid=78084 5* 03DMC 5* (+212) 10 < 1603214040 625802 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603214193 404807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DMC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78087&oldid=67606 5* 03DMC 5* (-24) 10 < 1603215521 433480 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:f53b:2685:1471:5854 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603216037 160543 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603216330 273268 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1603217838 671552 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PixelCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78088&oldid=77996 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (+180) 10 < 1603218298 549453 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603218311 991772 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603219972 20259 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1603219972 164457 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1603219972 267431 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1603219972 267461 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1603220050 454859 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:f53b:2685:1471:5854 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603220354 304955 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-xrcojctcvffovltv JOIN :#esoteric < 1603220389 588311 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1603220745 533541 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603220773 550985 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603225565 653496 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603226164 116415 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Far beyond this world I've known, far beyond this time... < 1603229567 799868 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603229730 318861 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603231309 639760 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603231927 214063 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603232031 138307 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603232220 425737 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603233677 210574 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603233979 147449 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1603234815 58911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Nutes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78089&oldid=78082 5* 03Yoel 5* (+3) 10 < 1603236527 814486 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1603236946 78896 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603237236 69272 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603238632 469306 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1603239169 274990 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603240192 658117 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603240465 585500 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603242877 689223 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603243439 511020 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603243570 694828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603243599 326473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there isn't a cryptographic hash designed to be collision-resistant, but intentionally not preimage-resistant < 1603243630 535214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea would be that posting such a hash would be a way of saying, effectively, "I want you to have access to the data that this hash is pointing to" < 1603243681 944399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is technically just a compression function, in the gzip/bzip2 sense, but it would also allow for, say, having the file stored somewhere on the Internet, together with a download URL and a cryptographic hash for verifying you had the right file < 1603243714 426200 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603243780 778191 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, magnet: URI does some of those things, but if you would have such a hash function available, you could use it in the magnet: URI maybe < 1603243946 829123 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I probably do not fully understand, anyways < 1603244155 119469 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem like it would do what you said. < 1603245377 295091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the benefit of not having it be preimage-resistant in that scenario? < 1603246688 354945 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603246945 232919 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603247040 77525 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603249927 932837 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603250048 905627 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603250131 453121 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603250210 854146 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603250351 528343 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603250497 381870 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603251383 512909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: What's the benefit of not having it be preimage-resistant in that scenario? ← giving the hash to someone would be evidence that you wanted them to have the data, so there are no security implications of reversing the hash < 1603251402 819677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., if you have a file on your system that matches the hash, you could safely give it to anyone who gave you the hash < 1603251494 266219 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow. Can't you just decide on that rule, if you want to use the hash that way? < 1603251520 958014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a 256-bit hash and a 256MB file, the fact that people can find a preimage (or even enumerate all preimages) doesn't help them get the file at all. < 1603251577 862787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone having possession of, say, an SHA-256 hash of a file doesn't imply anything about whether they're supposed to have the file or not < 1603251609 464486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the hash is designed not to be preimage-resistant, then possession of the hash does imply that you're meant to have access to the file < 1603251649 618458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the person who made the hash has the file, and could have given it to them; and if they weren't meant to be giving access to the file at the same time, they would use a hash that was preimage-resistant < 1603251801 448686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intended idea behind this, by the way, was for a hypothetical OS with much tighter permissions control than, say, Linux or Windows < 1603251807 625141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where programs only had access to what they needed < 1603251827 146678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea was that the programs could store some sort of hash for files that they didn't "own", allowing them to read them < 1603251863 899515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that you would need to be able to prove that possession of the hash implied it was safe to give the possessor the file itself < 1603251932 938749 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. Now I understand (I think). < 1603252023 766350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hrm... you want capabilities that can be persistent? < 1603252029 334706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preimage-resistant hashes are often used to prove that you have a file without intending to give the file to the person you give the hash to, so in order to prevent it being used for that purpose, it has to be non-preimage-resistant < 1603252033 280402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, that's a good way to think about it < 1603252040 872965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a capability for access to information < 1603252127 160617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you wouldn't actually use the non-preimage-resistance for anything? < 1603252188 16364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like you can just use SHA-256 for this, and only give people hashes of files if you want them to have access. < 1603252202 218325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can use SHA-256 with a different starting state or something. < 1603252235 729773 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me that at least preimage resistance is not necessary for this case, but that a different hash is wanted to tell the difference of its use; I suppose SHA-256 with a different starting state might work, maybe < 1603252250 526106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, content-addressable memory is the other keyword that came to my mind. < 1603252282 993918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I want there to be as few cryptographic primitves as possible and have them be simple and flexible. < 1603252311 874180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "memory" is generic, could be a file system, could even be a distributed file sharing thing)) < 1603252352 328212 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is SHA-256 different-starting-state-resistance?) < 1603252370 937383 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is NIST-or-whoever going to standardize an unkeyed permutation? < 1603252384 230209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like the best symmetric primitive to me. < 1603252476 820092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could construct something like this quite simply, e.g. concatenate a file's SHA-256, SHA-1, MD5, and the first 16 bytes of the file < 1603252498 949725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that clearly leaks information about the underlying file, and is clearly at least as collision-resistant as SHA-256 is < 1603252514 518411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the SHA-1 and MD5 make it easier to find random copies of the file that might be floating around online) < 1603252548 476443 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603253189 162309 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603253290 301244 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is that. Does a magnet URI allow you to specify all of that stuff in one URI? < 1603253454 93547 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603253463 430003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the magnet URI is the sort of thing I was looking for < 1603253583 773016 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that you can specify a single hash in a magnet URI, but I don't know if you can specify multiple hashes for the same file. < 1603253711 274879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear to me whether the format allows the same key to be given multiple times to give it multiple values < 1603253737 706768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there seems to be some sort of standardisation mismatch, you can specify an SHA-1 hash in a magnet URI with xt=urn:sha1:hash < 1603253747 456319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sha1 is not an officially registered URN namespace < 1603253784 973910 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as far as I can tell no hash codes are officially registered URN namespaces < 1603253982 332349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm semi-seriously considering sending off a request to IANA to add some < 1603254057 995560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two, sha1 seems to be most widely used for this, but we would ideally want a hash function that isn't broken as an option < 1603254063 339627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least, isn't known to be broken) < 1603254642 333051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps urn:sha1: wouldn't be accepted because of the potential for two different file to have the same URN < 1603254696 198445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to be defined very carefully, e.g. saying that the URN referred to the only file in existence that had that hash at the time the URN was first created, and that creating such a URN is not valid if two different files with the same hash exist < 1603255006 139229 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it could still work; the URN refers to the hash itself, not to the file. < 1603255169 854163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's an interesting concept < 1603255176 736581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the URN would clearly be more useful if it referred to the file < 1603255285 19015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, something I learned today: the attacks on SHA-1 are still improving, Wikipedia says that with the latest techniques, a chosen-prefix collision on SHA-1 would cost about US$45000 of computer time < 1603255424 678646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is that attacks getting better vs. GPUs or something getting better? < 1603255654 774911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is attacks getting better < 1603256425 611301 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603256674 640726 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603259114 487155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603259673 382617 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603259963 231559 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603262925 997041 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603263203 74216 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603263387 522598 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603263701 581197 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603263757 635447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603263886 965353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603264055 522331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1603264079 14938 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603264258 809172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603265296 287871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bot < 1603265296 432610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1603265316 517148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1603265316 621401 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they are trying to solve here? going to throw away < 1603267600 598368 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603267677 312240 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone aware of a left-total esolang other than Zot? (All possible input strings are syntactically valid) < 1603267745 658361 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603267854 458585 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1603267903 782936 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603269454 322063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Malbolge > 1603269574 897334 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Tuan2090 5* 10New user account < 1603270071 371238 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you count comments, most of them are? < 1603270085 818513 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, bf ignores non-command chars in most implementations < 1603270588 125333 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1603270623 249560 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could argue wether or not a bf program with unbalanced brackets is syntacticaly valid < 1603270630 860899 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1603270631 528267 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say, they are < 1603270686 731987 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about all possible binary mappings. Iterate from 0 to limit, input the (n-ary) form of this number into the program and plot the relation between the inputs and the outputs somehow < 1603270740 268559 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*input into the program => use this as the program < 1603270792 190574 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat unrelated: http://wry.me/hacking/Turing-Drawings < 1603271743 15044 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603271764 489932 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :K-Lined < 1603271943 329977 :izabera!izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1603272223 890837 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603272317 677865 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603272825 699874 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603272878 914189 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : /j #minecraft < 1603273629 49760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :/joy < 1603274470 184455 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.218.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603274646 170361 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603274650 439296 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.218.115 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1603275894 756115 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-xrcojctcvffovltv QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1603276030 579162 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:4975:7ae8:c0fc:49e9 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603276071 90216 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603276731 908906 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.115 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603276758 519722 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603276758 631799 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.115 QUIT :Changing host < 1603276758 631847 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603278257 378739 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - http://znc.in < 1603278967 336649 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603279212 121889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainflub14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78090&oldid=78023 5* 03Aryantech123 5* (+190) 10 < 1603279809 660714 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1603279971 523404 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603281131 145302 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1603282214 96376 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Conglument14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78091&oldid=77224 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+0) 10 > 1603283396 913190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deklare14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78092&oldid=75763 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* The arithmetic system */ Correct documentation (equality -> assignment) < 1603284270 882557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From elsewhere, but the animation's nice: https://twitter.com/AlanZucconi/status/1315967202797981696 < 1603284511 2663 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603284628 278443 :ski!~ski@nc-2504-30.studat.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1603285302 388577 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603285319 862662 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603286045 78005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ThisIsTheFoxe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78093&oldid=77895 5* 03ThisIsTheFoxe 5* (+1512) 10added HTPL/HTPF section < 1603288528 249247 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603288990 827046 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603290122 996556 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been imagining something similar. suppose aliens start selling a magical box cheaply and in large numbers. this magical box has an ethernet connection, and you can do two things with it. either you upload a file, to which it gives you an unpredictable digest (which may be pure random, or a cryptographically good trap function with a key that we can't extract from the box and a seed that's < 1603290128 994627 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :new every time, there's no way to tell), or give the box a digest, and if anyone has got that digest from any box anywhere, it gives you the corresponding file. < 1603290214 519394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be the ultimate compression scheme, so suddenly most computers (including photo cameras and such) wouldn't need high capacity storage devices, or high bandwidth internet connections. some specialty high performance applications would still use traditional hard disks and SSDs, when the bandwidth and latency of the box is too small, or for old-style people like me who don't trust any new < 1603290220 455713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :technology. < 1603290257 758212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a size limit for files you can upload, but it doesn't matter, you can always just upload it in chunks and upload a tree indexed by digests and transmit the digest of the root. < 1603290336 902872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics probably bans this because of entropy stuff, but it at least still doesn't let you send signals faster than light speed, because the digests are long and random enough that you can't randomly guess the digest of any file someone else has uploaded without learning the digest indirectly from the box. < 1603290435 465870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would let us simulate really large (but not necessarily extra-fast) hard disks that are easy to back up, because you'd only need to carry a digest to save the entire backup < 1603290472 252566 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't give you writable storage: if you want remote backups every day, you have to send a new digest to the remote location every day. < 1603290527 382345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also having a digest would essentially count as proof that you have the data that it points to, like for proving that you have gotten access to industrial secrets or copyright-protected information < 1603290560 543920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could have very short bits of information that you aren't allowed to distribute < 1603290632 469164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would also help connect places where it's currently expensive to set up high bandwidth data connections for practical reasons, like in isolated places or between continents or to space < 1603291117 578221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also none of the properties would break if the digest was unseeded (so it gave the same result if two people upload the same data), and even computed by a known hash function that is cryptographically safe (eg. the aliens describe how to compute the hash function in the manual), but somehow I always imagine the digest as not reproducible, because that's somehow more believable < 1603291163 851860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even have it so that you don't need to upload anything to the box, as long as you have a file and compute its digest using the safe crypto hash function that the aliens specify in the manual, it's enough for anyone to download, which seems even more magical but doesn't seem to break anything > 1603291208 238003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78094&oldid=72175 5* 03WhyNot? 5* (+15) 10 < 1603291349 324960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course the digest has to be long enough to be secure from a birthday attack on an expensive fast parallelized GPU cluster < 1603291385 818226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with any technology we or the aliens may have in the future < 1603292310 808470 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, if they work with a public hash function, but the boxes were so expensive we can't afford even a single one, yet we had access to a manual and knew that the boxes work, then we'd at least have a guaranteed crytographically secure hash function, which would be a nice consolation prize < 1603292327 706261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until of course they destroy everyone with a death ray) < 1603293382 654262 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603293559 159327 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the device must be impossible to reverse-engineer, and if it communicates with other instances of the devices, then it has to do so such that we can't gain information from it, especially not about what files are uploaded or downloaded or their digests < 1603293573 485007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it must be rectangular and painted black < 1603293675 309162 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603295615 618923 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603295902 613781 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603296140 427918 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603296238 25734 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603296560 123280 :xgqt!~xgqt@static62133140007.ostnet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603296814 52712 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603296982 505890 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603296985 643438 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603297462 910133 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu3 < 1603297474 270938 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1603300835 166665 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603303829 859753 :xgqt!~xgqt@static62133140007.ostnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603306850 35715 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603309076 860966 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603312516 525237 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1603313271 400824 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78095&oldid=78032 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+45) 10 < 1603313523 437853 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:413d:d4f5:b07b:cbf4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603315089 89922 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50966676/why-do-arm-chips-have-an-instruction-with-javascript-in-the-name-fjcvtzs < 1603315737 726514 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603315810 120050 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: yeah, those are useful. the float to fix instructions on x86 suck really. < 1603315820 836287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useful not only for javascript. < 1603315851 955869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are conversion instructions, but not ones that round to highest or lowest integer value on over/underflow, which is the behavior you often want < 1603316045 69820 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603316072 762178 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603316694 526598 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought make up a kind of compression for restaurant menu texts. It could be done using existing compression formats, with preset dictionaries and whatever, but also could be new ones; either way, would also be the base format which would pack the data to be optimized in the format. < 1603317038 553616 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:413d:d4f5:b07b:cbf4 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603317877 622469 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@91.90.11.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603317912 721887 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@91.90.11.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impact of order of files in tar archive on compressed size https://yurichev.com/news/20201021_tar_order/ < 1603318160 178192 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 7-Zip normally uses solid compression separately per filename extension. < 1603318175 779735 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@91.90.11.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: interesting < 1603318401 420764 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603319167 86799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, I think it just uses solid compression in blocks, and sorts files by default though you can override that, and the default sort order has changed "recently" (last ten years) < 1603319222 746097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.7-zip.org/faq.html < 1603319354 193804 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603319385 423990 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK, now I read that < 1603319544 210382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and you can give the -mqs=off option to disable sorting if you specify an explicit list of files that you sort in some good way < 1603319683 968032 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603321140 38393 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603321865 622479 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603321894 251340 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603324225 629355 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1603324732 792763 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603324829 258552 :esowiki1!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603325017 665006 :esowiki!~esowiki@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/esowiki QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603325063 759880 :esowiki1!~esowiki@techne.zem.fi NICK :esowiki < 1603327513 580537 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603327751 967437 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.219.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603328985 140935 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603334944 885396 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603337112 500519 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@91.90.11.13 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603338176 849246 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't have macros that are expanded only where a variable name is expected (similar to vardef in METAFONT). < 1603340902 87464 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read that cell phones cannot send/receive faxes due to the codec in use, but is the codec compatible with slow scan format? < 1603341315 15399 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603343223 712459 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603347639 491166 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603349185 526846 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603349986 194637 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603350985 213298 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.219.190 QUIT :Changing host < 1603350985 213352 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603351084 906040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603353051 461806 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603353176 404434 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603353703 710133 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603354054 492801 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603354559 481558 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603354703 722506 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603354963 742597 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603355165 465933 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603355926 254388 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603356038 509988 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603356052 439951 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603356098 369777 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603356417 234787 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. < 1603356429 845672 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defining a function is like adding an axiom, in the sense that it asserts that the hitherto-meaningless name of the function now has such-and-such meaning. < 1603356525 281731 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning! < 1603356766 172208 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I think it's more analogous to stating a theorem < 1603356778 566060 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With adding a builtin function like adding an axiom < 1603357008 208289 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the functions I write surely aren't theorems < 1603357222 557384 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603357225 88253 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603357273 761702 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might just not be very good theorems < 1603357317 703115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a definitional principle by specification: If you prove (exists x. P(x)), then that allows you to introduce a fresh constant k, and assert P(k) as an axiom. < 1603357361 246486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proof of exists x. P(x) is fairly trivial if P(x) has the form x = foo with x not occurring in foo. < 1603357797 187257 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I believe Isabelle/Pure really only has the special case of definition by equality. Isabelle/HOL adds a Hilbert choice operator, so you get the specification principle by defining k = SOME x. P(x), and noting that exists x. P(x) ==> P(SOME x. P(x)) <==> P(k). < 1603357817 2999 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x. x has type P -> P which is the tautology theorem < 1603357822 733414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue about other interactive theorem provers. < 1603357855 484564 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f. \g. \x. g(f(x)) has type (P -> Q) -> (Q -> R) -> (P -> R) which is a tautology < 1603357870 690693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the dependently typed ones. < 1603357875 670346 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read -> as implies it works < 1603357925 700464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: not sure what your point is < 1603357949 203551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (p -> q) -> (q -> r) -> p -> r < 1603357949 267373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = b (a c) < 1603357952 23305 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for cpressey to see why functions are proofs of theorems < 1603357978 145061 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a couple simple examples < 1603357990 453099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is entirely independent of how you deal with definitions. < 1603358024 745108 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of functions which are not proofs of theorems. < 1603358025 961829 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you want proper definitions in every practical proof framework because they are crucial for compression. < 1603358032 731743 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, and lemmas. < 1603358051 630325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which may be the same if you have dependent types.) < 1603358090 475880 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, that is true... < 1603358092 240125 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In *theory*, of course you can treat definitions and lemmas as abbreviations to be unfolded. < 1603358097 610985 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, infinite loops < 1603358125 649516 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you stick to functions with no infinite loops they can be read as theorems (even if they are often boring ones) < 1603358149 649917 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all functions are proofs of theorems, just not necessarily in a consistent logic < 1603358165 893464 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can be read as theorems that no one cares about", I won't argue with that < 1603358168 676878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the functions I write are broing when viewed as theorems. < 1603358222 958095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a function of type Nat -> Nat, I usually care about the values. But usually not enough to try to specify what they are in the type. < 1603358254 657582 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... functions are more than just proofs. < 1603358298 814639 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I use a dynamically typed language, then I am using a "degenerate type system with only one type" in the view of type theory, and I imagine that make it difficult to form any interesting proofs. But I can *program* in it just fine. < 1603358321 151156 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still assert that functions are far more like theorems than axioms < 1603358330 934183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, indeed, the potential for nontermination makes the picture of functions as proofs even more inaccurate. < 1603358349 253748 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's not about functions, at least not as I read it. < 1603358392 132745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's about giving a *name* to a value, which is the essence of a definition of a function. < 1603358493 61757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course this is my own interpretation of something cpressey wrote. I don't know whether it's the intended one. < 1603358571 639039 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I feel like I *kind of* follow your explanation with P(x), if, to prove that x (for example factorial) exists you only need to supply the definition of it (a term exists that we can call "factorial") < 1603358606 279172 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's a kind of existence proof. < 1603358673 238488 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, what is P() in general? It seems like it could be the evaluation relation for your environment? < 1603358705 180785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1603358721 210058 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then I probably follow you. < 1603358731 791244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be... P(f) <--> f(0) = 1 /\ forall x. f(x+1) = f(x)*(x+1) < 1603358895 222549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which specifies the factorial function, assuming f : nat -> nat, but makes existence of f non-trivial.) < 1603358908 271577 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes functions are more than just their types < 1603358930 324086 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :types are just a blueprint of what the function does structurally < 1603359031 602766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What I'm saying is very much inspired by how Isabelle/HOL deals with these things. < 1603359143 799460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, there is a function definition package that *can* deal with the above specification of the factorial function. Internally it'll extract a dependency relation (here, x+1 -> x; in general those will be tuples of all the arguments) and shows that it is well-founded (for which it has various heuristics)... and then one can show that f exists by induction on that relation. < 1603359169 546765 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is not entirely accurate, but close enough for an overview.) < 1603359249 998556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. let's s/overview/outline/ < 1603359307 223855 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some functions are uniquely determined by their type < 1603359325 827907 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to extraneous lambda terms and other "nothings" < 1603359405 117839 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: Yeah, and even when it's not uniquely determined, you get at least one theorem "for free" by parametricity, as I understand it. < 1603359449 95145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1603359449 172282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a < 1603359469 897873 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true! parametricity is pretty amazing < 1603359479 810386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unsurprisingly, the preferred Church numberal is 1.) < 1603359486 961037 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a function works for all types you know it doesn't inspect and case analysis on data of that type < 1603359494 944978 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you say a lot about a function < 1603359504 813361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"numberal". Finally a typo that makes sense. < 1603359520 706842 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1603359520 741270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try `free ` or `free :: ` < 1603359530 881450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@free church :: (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1603359530 917400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f . g = h . f => f . church g = church h . f < 1603359563 782574 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :induction, more or less. < 1603359682 498792 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i never knew that! < 1603359684 817386 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1603359984 911720 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, it's possible for a function to uphold an invariant that cannot be captured by any type. < 1603361866 735596 :HaJones!~HaJones@217-210-86-17-no2320.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603362084 707599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: definitions aren't like axioms in that they don't let you prove things that were meaningful but you couldn't have proved from your existing axioms. < 1603362230 917254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoken like a logician < 1603362583 948808 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My comparison to axioms was meant to highlight that before you give the definition of factorial there's no way in hell you can deduce the truth or falisty of the statement "factorial(5)=120" < 1603365729 292390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603365744 146771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can imagine a modification of, say, the SHA-1 or SHA-256 algorithm < 1603365772 579286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which the final step is "check if this hash has ever been output for a different input file; if so, increment the hash and repeat this step" < 1603365786 206796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you have an algorithm that is precisely defined and collision-free < 1603365791 564987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if a little difficult to use in practice) < 1603365796 518658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems quite similar to what your magic box is doing < 1603365806 351401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although not the same, obviously) < 1603365818 757172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure if it's well-defined whether a hash has been output, and which of two hashes has been output first. < 1603365854 385771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and no, (a) the magic box does more than just produce hashes, and (b) it uses a longer digest and one that's cryptographically safe so you can't produce collisions < 1603365885 454104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that the magic box produces is a hash by definition, isn't it? except that it might not be deterministic < 1603365895 666637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when using it in "store" mode) < 1603365915 275254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it need not be. it could be just an entirely random value that it doesn't compute from the input or anything < 1603365916 999082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic boxes are slightly more useful if you also add the proviso that the same code will be returned for anyone, if they provide the same file as input < 1603365935 987390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would argue that *even if* it isn't computed from the input, it's still a hash function < 1603365940 681904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sort of but not really. if you want to check for collisions, you can just use an ordinary hash independent of the magic box. < 1603365954 967365 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then it's a hash function. < 1603365975 307326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I have wanted a similar operation to this in a golfing language < 1603365986 425672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes an arbitrary data structure and returns a single integer, consecutive from 0 < 1603365999 437528 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interning arbitrary data structures? < 1603366002 694719 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work < 1603366003 151585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1603366014 25731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there is an uninterning operation, too < 1603366038 904973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another idea I had, along similar lines, was a function that interns pairs of integers < 1603366050 829709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have this, your language no longer needs data structures, as you can do cons just on integers < 1603366075 798599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are bijections between Z² and Z, so I guess you wouldn't even need to use interning if you didn't mind the size of the numbers exploding) < 1603366094 584395 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what cons does if there's no garbage collection, except I think if you say interning, you want a deterministic function < 1603366109 206587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for numbers exploding, yes, that's what (0) does < 1603366128 324438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, deterministic within one run of the program < 1603366141 468727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1603366175 652899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think "content-addressable storage" is the general term for your magic boxes, except that two different CASes are not usually linked to each other < 1603366186 786248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds typical for these golf languages, normally you wouldn't want to intern every pair, because it's sort of slow, but in a golf language you might not care < 1603366216 996781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, this seems like an operation that is probably usable by golfing languages only < 1603366246 193530 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and https://valerieaurora.org/monkey.html is the clear explanation of them < 1603366284 627279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, rsync is a CAS? < 1603366314 93152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic boxes are not only linked, but can also store practically any amount of data (limited by the boxes' bandwidth) forever for free, unlike in the real world < 1603366365 849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rsync => not in the traditional system, but it uses clever use of hashes to likely find matching infixes among files, just like how some delta compression algorithms do < 1603366383 901824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact even some ordinary compression algorithms do that < 1603366427 268487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riot Games wrote an article about how they do incremental updates, without needing to know what's already installed on the target computer < 1603366435 554778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because deterministically finding all common infixes is too expensive, but finding enough of them to compress well in typical practical cases is good enough < 1603366469 920362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works by breaking files into sections based on their content, and sending the hash of each section that should be in the new files < 1603366473 294063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll probably learn all about this in Knuth vol 5 by the way < 1603366488 186627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the existing files are used to find as many of those sections as possible, and the ones which aren't found are downloaded < 1603366500 213052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's sort of what rsync does < 1603366512 792710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's why I mentioned it < 1603366533 738328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, A Pear Tree's current algorithm for finding sections of files with a CRC of 0 is quadratic < 1603366541 525278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's possible to do it in linear time < 1603366570 621773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe there isn't even a need to define the sections in terms of content, you could just do it in terms of, say, a CRC-128 < 1603366599 28112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you would expect no random collisions with one of those; even though it isn't cryptographically secure, it seems likely that any actual collisions would have been planted by a human) < 1603366620 985161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, it's probably actually n log n rather than linear < 1603366633 559189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yeah, that reminds me of one of my favorite algorithmic problems. you get a vector of nonnegative machine-sized integers, find the infix in that vector that maximizes the product of the length and the minimum of that infix. < 1603366661 627865 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n is the length of the vector, there's a trivial O(n**3) algorithm, an easy O(n**2) algorithm, and a tricky O(n) algorithm < 1603366708 132908 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1603366710 561232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"infix" = contiguous substring, right? < 1603366715 758890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1603366802 38955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an easy O(nk) algorithm too, which might or might not be faster depending on the size of the numbers < 1603366809 682697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is k? < 1603366834 879724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :largest integer in the vector < 1603366875 420571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(faster than the O(n²) algorithm, that is) < 1603366973 82263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the easy O(n²) algorithm is "for each element in the vector, scan forwards until you find a smaller element, then take the maximum among the infixes calculated this way" < 1603366993 203072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you want to experiment, a test vector is [138, 222, 263, 156, 176, 58, 116, 211, 293, 481, 352, 217, 454, 639, 423, 580, 819, 716, 845, 999, 936, 714, 621, 569, 361, 175, 52, 57, 33] and the largest product is 5121, I have two longer test vectors that I can paste < 1603367008 779140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is the easy O(n**2) algorithm < 1603367047 942678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easy O(nk) algorithm is "for each k from 1 to the highest element in the vector, look for maximum-length infixes whose minimum is k, then take the maximum among the infixes calculated this way" < 1603367069 573194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that works too < 1603367154 423829 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603367164 881349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy O(n log n): sort the indexes of the vector by their values, then consider the infixest between the smallest and second-smallest, second-smallest and third-smallest, etc., values < 1603367169 797767 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603367174 975332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* infixes < 1603367180 843337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure that's correct though < 1603367208 45034 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you compute the minimum of those infixes? < 1603367208 522020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, you have to extend each of those infixes outwards until you reach a value that's smaller < 1603367224 717032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, yes, that hurts the complexity too < 1603367299 635122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more difficult O(n log n): consider the entire list as an infix, and recursively apply this algorithm to prefix before the smallest element, suffix after the smallest element < 1603367312 937532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is O(n log n) if you speed it up by locating all the element locations in order from smallest to largest first < 1603367319 278933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the recursion in that order < 1603367327 441176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, then you'll always know what the smallest element in the infix you're considering is < 1603367332 178766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where it is < 1603367372 412777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the recursion itself becomes O(n) once you have the O(n log n) index of elements in order < 1603367408 182443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does that work? how do you do a recursion "in that order"? a recursion would usually has to do descend to all infixes on one side, then all infixes on the other side. < 1603367441 596905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do a recursion with a call stack, where you're doing the left subtree than the right subtree < 1603367451 664373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also use a call queue, then you're effectively recursing over the tree breadth-first < 1603367464 829278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can generalise this into doing a recursion in arbitrary order < 1603367472 389687 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how will that work in O(n) time? < 1603367476 806009 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603367504 583195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like it might work but I'm not convinced < 1603367510 331785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh right, it's acutally n log n; there are n recursive calls, each of which take constant time, but the context switches take log n time < 1603367513 938801 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603367533 652332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you need to find the right stack/queue frame to aim for < 1603367661 788940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the algorithm expanded: we have a set of infixes, initially just the initial list < 1603367667 453495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile Im' trying to find my old implementation of the O(n) algorithm... < 1603367684 743721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeatedly, we locate the smallest element in any of the infixes, and split it into two infixes, the elements before that element, and the elements after that element < 1603367688 19979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure I still hvae it < 1603367698 6116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repeat until we have no elements left < 1603367728 436531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we sort the list in advance (remembering where the elements are in sorted order), "locate the smallest element in any of the infixes" (in terms of its position relative to the original list, and its value) is constant-time < 1603367776 902649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we maintain the list of infixes in sorted order (sorted using position in the initial list), using a self-balancing search tree, finding the correct infix based on the position of an element relative to the original list is O(log n) < 1603367798 586193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, the sort in advance is O(n log n), the analysis of all the infixes is also O(n log n), overall algorithm is therefore O(n log n) < 1603367814 96075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant factor seems bad, though :-D < 1603367899 254004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : One of my favorite quotes from this paper: "Our attack can find collision [in MD4] with hand calculation." < 1603367919 547897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, nowadays MD4 is so broken that finding collisions in it is actually faster than MD4'ing the two resulting strings to verify that their hashes are the same as each other < 1603368250 507268 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's probably one of these scripts in this text file of completely undocumented and unreadable perl one-liners < 1603368269 856418 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more than one of them, they're probably multiple algorithms for the same thing < 1603368291 160049 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be this one < 1603368326 64540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is this actually the O(n) solution? < 1603368382 691066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says this where the input is the numbers as space-separated decimal < 1603368384 817280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -we 'use strict; use List::Util "max"; my @A=split/ /,<>; sub f { my(@a) = (0, @_, 0); my $m = 0; my @s; for my $j (0 .. @a-1) { while (@s and $a[$j] <= $a[$s[-1]]) { my $l = 1<@s?$s[-2]:0; my $t = ($j-$l-1)*($a[$s[-1]]); $m<$t and $m=$t; pop @s; } push @s, $j; } $m; } print f(@A), "\n";' < 1603368465 243582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like an unused import to me < 1603368471 722067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some usage of "max" I'm missing < 1603368482 871952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, like I said, undocumented and messy, wrote it for myself < 1603368489 384713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's the O(n) solution < 1603368526 66769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that it's an amortized thingy, the body of the while loop pops an element from @s, so it runs exactly once for each value pushed, and we push a value in each iteration of the for loop, which runs n times > 1603368536 559473 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Filexor 5* 10New user account < 1603368543 342271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's O(n), the inner loop can't run any more iterations than the outer loop does because the outer loop pushes to @s exactly once and the inner loop pops from it exactly once < 1603368546 647314 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have n iterations of the for loop, n iterations of the body of the while loop total < 1603368583 423814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have more test vectors here < 1603368618 507302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 apparently < 1603368660 512722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your algorithm is basically the same as my O(n log n) algorithm except that it goes left to right, and manages to locate all the correct infixes as it does so, rather than needing an index calculated in advance < 1603368661 456611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and outputs for them, but you could get each with the quadratic time algorithm) < 1603368673 266136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both algorithms look at the same n infixes < 1603368707 541239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is likely, because neither uses any deep tricks about how the multiplication works apart from that it's monotone < 1603368725 623123 :HaJones!~HaJones@217-210-86-17-no2320.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603368757 45456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to consider O(n) infixes, though you could consider O(n) more redundnatly < 1603368815 104340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I assume there are randomized hashing algorithms which are secure in the sense that if you don't know the seed, you can't create a collision, and that given a random seed, two strings are no more likely to collide than a birthday paradox suggests < 1603368824 732470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much faster are they than cryptosecure hashes? < 1603368879 429217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia calls this "universal hashing" < 1603368968 190488 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603368998 182239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people usually use the Blake2 hashes with a secret seed for that, I think python has such an implementation for its dictionaries < 1603369013 734584 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 PART :#esoteric < 1603369033 234305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blake2 is supposed to be cryptosecure, but it's still somewhat faster than SHA-2 or SHA-3 usually, and more flexible < 1603369062 930171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Blake3 now < 1603369085 368466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster than blake2 partly because the number of rounds was reduced, but also because it can be vectorised > 1603369094 72891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78096&oldid=78062 5* 03Filexor 5* (+170) 10/* Introductions */ < 1603369113 652210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the input needs to be at least 2KiB in order to get the main gain from the vectorisation, and there's some overhead introduced to make that possible < 1603369117 867960 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think blake2 can be vectorized too. blake3 can be parallelized. < 1603369129 108335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different sort of vectorization < 1603369149 240025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you need to do a single serial iteration to compute blake2 on a long input < 1603369164 84147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blake3 can be vectorized the same way Blake2 is, but it's more efficient to use the parellelizability and just use the vector registers to SIMD many of the parallel streams of execution at once < 1603369173 459579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is an iteration with a rather fast constant factor as crypto hashes go < 1603369202 891694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also use multiple CPUs or threads, but I don't consider that to actually speed up an algorithm, the same amount of CPU effort is expended < 1603369205 849208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't this this comes up often as an advantage < 1603369218 208073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something that rarely helps in practice < 1603369238 467834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rather, I think of the runtime of an algorithm as the integral of its CPU load dtime < 1603369253 988527 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the blake2 hashes are well-studied, which is the main advantage when you consider crypto hashes < 1603369258 416048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I shouldn't, because in practice you rarely find things to fill the idle CPU cores with < 1603369267 700326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1603369280 348212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use Blake3 for non-crypto work yet < 1603369283 767738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, for crypto work yet < 1603369299 590648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might use it for non-crypto purposes, though, if I simply wanted a hash function that's unlikely to have collisions < 1603369409 256547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, using a universal hash rather than cryptosecure hash means that there are certain useful properties that might not be ruled out < 1603369427 955235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, having an easy way to calculate the hash of A concat B if you know the hashes of A and B > 1603369891 813617 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PlusOrMinus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78097&oldid=75472 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+550) 10Update year and add original version > 1603370004 602699 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Blue screen of life 5* 10New user account > 1603370489 686468 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78098&oldid=78096 5* 03Blue screen of life 5* (+172) 10Adding intro > 1603370498 69319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78099&oldid=77368 5* 03Blue screen of life 5* (+72) 10Adding a shorter Hello World program without string reversion to the examples section. > 1603370828 999490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07XENBLN/Commands14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78100&oldid=74681 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10Update commands < 1603372405 33873 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603372424 857217 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603372443 906685 :File_xor!1b52d943@KD027082217067.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603372513 828933 :File_xor!1b52d943@KD027082217067.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603373220 806981 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603375878 374392 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78101&oldid=78011 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-171) 10 < 1603376380 471871 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603376656 787559 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603376756 207137 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603377165 199212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603377514 666248 :Colonel_Kernel!~Colonel_K@142.180.244.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603377520 430096 :Colonel_Kernel!~Colonel_K@142.180.244.137 PART :#esoteric > 1603379477 16923 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Braindumbed14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78102 5* 03Filexor 5* (+1501) 10Created page with "'''Braindumbed''' is esoteric instruction set architecture designed by [[User:Filexor]]. ==Language overview== Braindumbed generally runs with 65536 bits of address space with..." > 1603381019 7199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78103&oldid=78067 5* 03Filexor 5* (+18) 10 < 1603381262 911428 :Filexor!1b52d943@KD027082217067.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603381360 975123 :Filexor!1b52d943@KD027082217067.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603381684 441264 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603381701 546151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi from win10 (: < 1603381723 545136 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1603382452 843158 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.95.69 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1603383699 534918 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603384420 524897 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1603384858 31018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi arseniiv < 1603384864 954413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: is it a new computer hardware too? < 1603385693 973530 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603385758 920149 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-nflyrazfhwlwduwy JOIN :#esoteric < 1603386353 468007 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603386520 425043 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603387472 923720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603387817 524230 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nah, the same, though I bought a new display cable and tomorrow hopefully I'll grab it at the store. The current one is DVI-HDMI which is suboptimal, I picked HDMI at both sides. Should have done it so long ago but at least late is better than never. The change wouldn't improve resolution and frequency but I think it would do better in subtle and oblique ways < 1603387850 898570 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I need to reactivate my AutoHotkey script to be able to enter fancy apostrophes < 1603388029 990296 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a day or so to migrate all settings that need to, and to install a stray driver and to reinstall most of the programs which aren't portable. I should take notes to automate that for the next upgrade or migration but I'm lazy < 1603388094 293559 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603388209 585172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603388595 771611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably grab the stuff I bought on Monday or Tuesday < 1603389495 224463 :kurisu!~user@2a01:e34:ec06:13a0:cd56:6bd8:d37a:d475 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603389979 511692 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-010.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603391131 724862 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1603393148 347633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603393407 582523 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603393459 240262 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603394366 413194 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603396424 184725 :kurisu!~user@2a01:e34:ec06:13a0:cd56:6bd8:d37a:d475 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603397039 732465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07UFSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78104&oldid=74608 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+61) 10/* One-time binary cat */ Add example > 1603397623 530448 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78105&oldid=77980 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-314) 10This does not work... > 1603398160 498102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Taktentus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78106&oldid=74146 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+61) 10/* Syntax */ Add to documentation > 1603399052 530833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Taktentus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78107&oldid=78106 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10/* Syntax */ Add note about comments < 1603399467 153143 :cherrybean!~philip@210.16.83.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603399878 64878 :cherrybean!~philip@210.16.83.127 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" > 1603400569 224219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Voxvy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78108 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+334) 10Create < 1603400903 769449 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603400955 864951 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.219.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603400956 79245 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.219.190 QUIT :Changing host < 1603400956 79284 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603403186 48006 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603403577 943654 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603405416 919824 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603405723 914029 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1603405939 940922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Anarchysm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78109 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+142) 10Created page with "would it be considered ok to improve the english of this ~~~~" < 1603406023 175616 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603406113 125525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Anarchysm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78110&oldid=76549 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+182) 10bees > 1603406211 758383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78111&oldid=74257 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+32) 10i think you forgot an operator. > 1603406372 468569 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07H14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78112&oldid=71264 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+9) 10Fixed grammar < 1603406688 418818 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603406943 971831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Revaver2pi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78113&oldid=73504 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+143) 10Changed wording, fixed grammar > 1603407086 373547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78114&oldid=56541 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (-12) 10"compiler/interpreter" -> "implementation" > 1603407139 664536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78115&oldid=78114 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+6) 10Fixed grammar > 1603407277 332032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cod14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78116&oldid=43386 5* 03Heavpoot 5* (+76) 10Add link, fix typos/grammar < 1603407464 858623 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603407520 925353 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603407647 589404 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603407804 802253 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603408140 622832 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603408936 490337 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603410775 170604 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603411265 110274 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603412992 370332 :iceman121!uid465343@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sontbwvbgnvucuks JOIN :#esoteric < 1603413439 145522 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603413462 501842 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1603413523 989613 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603414177 884426 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.218.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603414228 964272 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603417267 438731 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603417547 433897 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1603418539 2605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Expliked 5* 10New user account > 1603418711 311382 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Erinius14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78117&oldid=66186 5* 03Erinius 5* (+107) 10 > 1603418812 663901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Erinius14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78118&oldid=46621 5* 03Erinius 5* (+92) 10 < 1603420531 831105 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603420822 806473 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603420882 414850 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603421599 204921 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603422128 464629 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: have you tried switching it off and on again? < 1603422128 680938 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: im with stubid and shoot me in the reference graph, darn :) not delving in to cause any problems. < 1603422154 92498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hate when that happens... debugging code just to find that the executed code no longer matches the source code I'm looking at) < 1603423784 711394 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603424063 645251 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603425580 486717 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1603425846 130889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Screwtape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78119&oldid=73057 5* 03Erinius 5* (+1364) 10 > 1603425865 489075 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Screwtape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78120&oldid=78119 5* 03Erinius 5* (-31) 10 > 1603425945 834798 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Screwtape14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78121&oldid=78120 5* 03Erinius 5* (+4) 10 < 1603426675 89752 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603427032 521026 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603427151 922698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, I love long-lived bugs. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85464 (18 years to reach WONTFIX status) < 1603427267 19269 :iceman121!uid465343@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sontbwvbgnvucuks QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1603427305 516780 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603430281 883978 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603430550 811344 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603433530 254576 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603433818 69927 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603434071 6113 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603435344 825649 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603435800 443258 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603436085 150725 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603436163 946595 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603436312 867790 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603436485 122912 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603436710 256687 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8df7:2e0b:fdcd:107e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603437387 516435 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603437439 347579 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603437450 637950 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 PART :#esoteric < 1603438529 301592 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603440393 319928 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603441652 961168 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603443123 410453 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603444839 367193 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603444988 255389 :evade!~evade@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Client Quit < 1603445008 959068 :magma!~magma@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603445288 623657 :magma!~magma@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Client Quit < 1603445311 941845 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603445392 475260 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603445407 427274 :magma!~magma@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603445628 600344 :magma!~magma@2001:b07:a15:ec0c:91a9:d55f:dffd:96e QUIT :Client Quit < 1603445827 369704 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603447274 627201 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was re-reading "Mathematical Foundations of Joy" recently and I found something interesting: < 1603447297 266648 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Joy the left zero l is the `abort` operator, it ignores any program following it. The right zero r is the `clearstack` operator, it empties the stack and hence ignores any calculations that might have been done before." < 1603447363 147668 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe that's not as interesting as I thought it was when I read it < 1603447365 889945 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1603447501 77945 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have been this.... what is the semantics of the program, "abort clearstack"? < 1603447521 243081 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abort" tells you to ignore "clearstack", but "clearstack" tells you to ignore "abort" < 1603447578 428189 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'd guess abort takes priority < 1603447583 993326 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know Joy < 1603447588 453007 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The equations are "l P == l" and "P r == r" for any P. This doesn't give an unambiguous solution for "l r" < 1603447601 747204 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may even imply l == r < 1603447605 26076 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1603447640 469463 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, there they are, two different operators < 1603448497 227326 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ! < 1603448667 826102 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xtwdaaxwztupehib QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603448669 822768 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zcdsmnjqbgycinsi QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603448680 38189 :Discordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lsxrpqzsmeejpxmc QUIT :Quit: killed < 1603449279 754232 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hdcgfkqnviqtyjpt JOIN :#esoteric < 1603449716 344954 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rain1 < 1603449784 117760 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your suggestion to just stick to Haskell98 for my latest project is sound, I think it's what I'll do < 1603449908 966733 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1603450031 733073 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait did you lot just break joy? < 1603450071 599312 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more that Joy's mathematical foundations are a bit... approximate. < 1603450114 354262 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8df7:2e0b:fdcd:107e QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603450465 415470 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: did you know that https://wiki.haskell.org/Hierarchical_module_names are not part of Haskell 98 :P < 1603450672 101846 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine < 1603450689 562630 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell 2010 without any LANGUAGE pragmas beyond what the libraries I've chosen to use force upon me" < 1603450692 408365 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better? < 1603450708 419215 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wxtscriksaadlspb JOIN :#esoteric < 1603450714 179999 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rvrjbpdklsowzqnu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603450792 674143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't seriously objecting to anything < 1603450817 141160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying to display some historical knowledge. < 1603451692 355595 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Did you know that the Haskell logo used to look like https://web.archive.org/web/20190510212827im_/https://prime.haskell.org/chrome/site/HaskellLogo_2.jpg < 1603451707 259227 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did they get rid of that logo? That logo was *awesome*, man < 1603451854 286089 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there was an earlier logo even, all blue < 1603451884 749575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://willamette.edu/~fruehr/logos/PNGs/BlueHaskellLogo.png < 1603451922 519746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there was this competition... https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_logos/New_logo_ideas < 1603451937 78108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it is looking rather dated, and doesn't necessarily reflect the mature Haskell we have now" < 1603452057 937591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brought us Monica Monad, which is arguably the best (if obscure) thing to come out of it. < 1603452080 898198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Something reflecting the modern emphasis of Haskell on purity and simplicity" isn't exactly the first thing I'd think of given some of those proposals. < 1603452112 853231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, some of these designs were... uhm... how do I put this politely... atrocious. < 1603452125 36091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them looks like a Google product. ;) < 1603452195 765939 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this language < 1603452220 161351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.haskell.org/File:Haskell.png was the weirdest one, in my eyes. < 1603452265 992697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.haskell.org/File:Pure_Devil_Haskell.png is something you'd see on a webring page in the 90s. ;) < 1603452286 571580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are those even a thing any more?) < 1603452334 968696 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the current logo even on that page?? < 1603452343 292351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webrings always broke. < 1603452363 440171 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think the idea of mutual links is still alive for webcomics. < 1603452379 934920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite possibly blogs as well. < 1603452408 72256 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I'm not much of a blog reader.) < 1603452612 250794 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every function in Haskell is a function in the mathematical sense (i.e., "pure"). Even side-effecting IO operations are but a description of what to do, produced by pure code." < 1603452614 162873 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1603452632 546944 :cpressey!~cpressey@79-65-249-48.host.pobb.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Lunch < 1603453321 909703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey Re the current logo, it's likely the broken logo1.png through logo7.png links on that competition page. (Compare the associated names with https://wiki.haskell.org/Thompson-Wheeler_logo .) < 1603453321 909773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1603453436 773491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like TikZ, should find some excuse to do something with it. < 1603453692 976424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what do I associate with TikZ... sadly, for the most part, tedious fiddling in conjunction with the beamer package (\uncover stuff cooperates with TikZ reasonably well.) < 1603453874 35989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tedious fiddling is the part I like. ;) < 1603453896 667421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be different if you actually wanted to get something done. < 1603453922 589604 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that... mostly preparing slides a day, sometimes two, before the presentation < 1603454019 900664 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it tended to be variations on the same two kinds of diagrams (though in varying complexity) so it was kind of boring. < 1603454780 180573 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603454812 709160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07COD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78122&oldid=73181 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10Not to be confused with > 1603454828 566574 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cod14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78123&oldid=78116 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10Not to be confused with < 1603455540 123444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, I recall that logo with the puddle and symbols vomited on it. < 1603456091 922230 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are webrings still a thing => well there's https://www.homebrewcpuring.org/ringhome.html which is the webring of http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ , and https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=106258 is decidedly from the 2000s. < 1603456206 898850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, these days people just put links to their favorite pages without trying to make a ring or symmetric graph or anything. < 1603456269 73089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I specifically hate TikZ. it's too esoteric. like, why are you trying to restrict yourself to making graphics from characters in fonts, when your computer and printer can both make real graphics, and it's cheaper and easier? < 1603456291 906412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :your projector too in case you mean new-style slides < 1603457598 70808 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursaga < 1603457620 716044 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603458616 357863 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603459006 580041 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603459279 753805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand that "from characters in fonts" comment. < 1603459409 902239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't that one way how TikZ works, though it also has a saner mode? or am I confusing it with some other graphics thing? < 1603459454 973550 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: TikZ is vector graphics with lines and circles and stuff < 1603459480 696533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently I'm confusing it with one mode of LaTeX's builtin graphics < 1603459513 26552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1603459740 218315 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1603459818 222049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Braindumbed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78124&oldid=78102 5* 03Filexor 5* (+392) 10 < 1603461139 169505 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603462153 525933 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603462354 266956 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8df7:2e0b:fdcd:107e JOIN :#esoteric < 1603462477 98043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603466029 980301 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"print\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603466031 625722 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :print"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"print\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603466033 527517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that weird line noise? < 1603466048 818768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"`perl -eprint\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603466050 999723 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"\`perl\ \-eprint\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603466064 957354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"\`perl\ \-eprint\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603466065 974630 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`perl -eprint"$_\Q$_\E\"\n"for"\`perl\ \-eprint\"\$_\\Q\$_\\E\\\"\\n\"for\"" < 1603467497 587468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? denominator < 1603467498 964986 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :denominator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1603467503 222766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? deluminator < 1603467504 592489 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :deluminator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1603468018 423126 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603468114 249010 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:8df7:2e0b:fdcd:107e QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603471340 827475 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1603471546 130029 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@ipservice-092-214-197-220.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603471592 411405 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@ipservice-092-214-197-220.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: IRC for Sailfish 0.9 < 1603471614 272011 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@ipservice-092-214-197-220.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603471673 167475 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@ipservice-092-214-197-220.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de PART :#esoteric > 1603471902 121353 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78125&oldid=78098 5* 033s0!an9 b0y 5* (+165) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603472203 317486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78126&oldid=78105 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+314) 10Undo revision 78105 by [[Special:Contributions/SunnyMoon|SunnyMoon]] ([[User talk:SunnyMoon|talk]]) I apologize, but I did this for a code golf challenge! < 1603472252 692278 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rvrjbpdklsowzqnu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603472257 814290 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603472258 293711 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603472795 456357 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-apzrybfnurkovecz JOIN :#esoteric < 1603473427 395042 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603474155 751431 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1603474779 280466 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603477867 167461 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1603483642 535157 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603485396 239579 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603485412 441330 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603485552 122381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603485579 956843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603485744 2914 :atriq!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486129 223228 :vertrex-!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486129 297787 :vertrex-!~vertrex@digital-forensic.org QUIT :Changing host < 1603486129 297852 :vertrex-!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486204 541265 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486205 545953 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486206 308940 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486206 309061 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486206 527850 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486206 854942 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486207 508591 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603486211 101674 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486211 101724 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486211 101733 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486211 101740 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486255 980621 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :Quit: . < 1603486262 200811 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486265 404794 :relrod!~relrod@origin.elrod.me QUIT :Changing host < 1603486265 404837 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1603486286 735961 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric > 1603486560 263958 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Libra14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78127 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+190) 10/* Implementation */ new section > 1603486658 36575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Screwtape14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78128&oldid=78121 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10Add categories > 1603487021 436884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78129&oldid=68578 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10See also: brainfuck > 1603487052 808685 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78130&oldid=78064 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+21) 10/* See also */ Add [[BF busy beaver]] < 1603487064 259308 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1603487157 301649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Minebit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78131&oldid=46588 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+199) 10The original poster is back: reply to them < 1603488442 91197 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603490803 398449 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603491050 802966 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hypothesis that dup, drop, rot and compose + implicit application of the quotation on the top of the stack should be turing complete. < 1603491157 278966 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the control flow is weird. < 1603491290 590898 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, sounds like an interesting set < 1603492183 986157 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603493336 49303 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 4-command basis for a concatenative language without nesting would be ideal. < 1603493340 153363 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is pushing it. < 1603494489 198282 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603494588 546395 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603494734 538424 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603494856 554777 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603496524 525888 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@p200300c1df0741003a7862fffe47d133.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603496651 8182 :UbftjvG63-986!~UbftjvG63@p200300c1df0741003a7862fffe47d133.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART :#esoteric < 1603497857 378276 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603498124 263400 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603499182 642314 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603500642 136581 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603500726 830971 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.218.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603501107 54585 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603501365 68722 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603503022 398996 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1603504352 565759 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603504600 535562 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603506852 283743 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603507600 73674 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603507884 74537 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603510847 148330 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603511051 579751 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603511105 50192 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603511464 183469 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603512837 936917 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603512949 246621 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603514097 545526 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603514344 536260 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603514487 12339 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gpfjxzcglwrhbpjs QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603514564 425967 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw JOIN :#esoteric < 1603516255 867669 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603517343 60917 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603517612 948086 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603518924 236321 :atriq!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org NICK :Taneb < 1603520590 563342 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603520854 542384 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603521589 535928 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1603522876 971881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TightOnTime 5* 10New user account < 1603522882 260902 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1603523117 690237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78132&oldid=78125 5* 03TightOnTime 5* (+270) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603523580 774109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:TightOnTime14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78133 5* 03TightOnTime 5* (+46) 10Created page with "Hello. == Esolangs == I haven't made any yet." < 1603523594 820164 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603523753 435725 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.96 QUIT :Changing host < 1603523753 435788 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603526177 260217 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603526927 213958 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603527043 708254 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603528861 332600 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfhkxxflhnjauuaj QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603528968 837158 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnrlcoxvuyddydfi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603530629 352027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603537553 155425 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603539476 621949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my compact camera wrote into the metadata the timezone (which you can configure in the settings), sub-second exposition time (this camera is fast enough that it's easy to make multiple photos in a second); and the orientation data from gravimeter (it displays it in two dimensions on display while composing a photo, but only writes a single multiple of 90° orientation). < 1603541833 390068 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603542688 268730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a standard metadata field for that last one? The usual EXIF orientation field is an enum with 8 values (90 degree multiples + mirroring bit). < 1603542729 208616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know, and in any case that standard orientation field is useful because software use it to rotate the image for displaying < 1603542782 906440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this would be an additional field. but these days these kinds of gravimeters are really cheap, they're built into many devices, so there's probably either already a field or they can just invent a new one. < 1603542803 450129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the non-exif metadata fields are defined by camera manufacturers anyway. < 1603542842 168601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there's an Apple-specific acceleration vector field, so some devices do store it. > 1603542985 286223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Voxvy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78134&oldid=78108 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10Add link to [[Python]] < 1603543111 31822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: exiftool docs say that there's even AccelerometerZ, AccelerometerX, AccelerometerY tags for the Panasonic image headers, which is a type of header set that this camera writes already (since it's a Panasonic) < 1603543131 882715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also RollAngle and PitchAngle fields in the same < 1603543161 387702 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't be very accurate, but even so it'd be worth < 1603543206 173505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also tags defined for other brands < 1603543224 660562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Wonder if my Canon camera writes those. Haven't noticed in exiftool output, but haven't tried to look for it either. < 1603543244 41071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does write the time zone, I remember that much. < 1603543256 412299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you know if it has an accelerometer hardware? < 1603543299 248004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a horizon thing in the live view, so it would need to have something to display that. < 1603543658 977153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it writes a "Camera Temperature" tag. < 1603543673 968665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("32 C" for this image.) < 1603543777 883276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it vary among images? < 1603543809 427249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it get that from a temperature sensor in the camera, or from one in a connected GPS or mobile phone etc? < 1603543915 50881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does seem to vary among images; in this set of 109 images, it starts at "28 C", and goes up to "32 C", in a more or less linear fashion. So I guess it was warming up while shooting. It's not connected to anything, so it must come from a sensor somewhere in the camera. < 1603543940 848734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1603543985 830767 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a "GPS Version ID" ("2.3.0.0") even though there's no GPS or position data. < 1603544014 548806 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said a lot of the metadata that it writes is useful < 1603544050 415540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've sometimes used one of those pieces of software to attach positions to images, based on a recorded GPS trace from a phone.) < 1603544101 153353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tags about exposure settings, white balance, the second precise timestamp (it's unclear what it is a timestamp for: the start of exposure, when it starts to compresses the file, when it starts to send the file to the SD card, etc), the camera model, etc < 1603544305 180437 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I often don't set the clock of this camera correctly, eg. sometimes I forget to reset it when I remove the battery for a short time to access the SD card, or just forget to set it for a long time, so the timestamp is often up to 10 minutes early or late, and also sometimes 1 hour off due to incorrect DST setting < 1603544335 752334 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my next camera doesn't write timezone metadata then I'll probably just set it to always UTC < 1603544367 395591 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to Iceland if it doesn't allow UTC) < 1603544933 76073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting to set the camera's clock (or time zone) every other time I go out with it, and it's annoying, because I tend to take photos with the camera *and* with a phone, and then their sort order is all wrong when mixed together. < 1603544937 110759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in a lot of my folders of photos, the last image is of the phone with a clock on the screen, because then it's easy to compute a correction factor, and use `exifdates -AllDates-=X` to fix them. < 1603545007 268693 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603545025 738035 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603545729 232978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1603550940 968960 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603552787 407700 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1603552877 888700 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603552878 45477 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.96 QUIT :Changing host < 1603552878 45518 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603554397 427915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603554969 420472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603555232 499766 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603555917 499749 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1603558959 247623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Symbolic Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78135&oldid=53804 5* 03Quadril-Is 5* (+43) 10H < 1603563176 899683 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1603563550 211377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Comefrom0x1014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78136&oldid=72995 5* 03Julfers 5* (-35) 10/* Implementation */ > 1603564741 842599 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Qh4 5* 10New user account > 1603565355 823698 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78137&oldid=78132 5* 03Qh4 5* (+192) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603565362 527219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78138&oldid=76351 5* 03Qh4 5* (+143) 10Added super useful and sexy C interpreter < 1603567250 973964 :woodwose!~woodwose@unaffiliated/woodwose JOIN :#esoteric < 1603567259 552888 :woodwose!~woodwose@unaffiliated/woodwose PART :#esoteric < 1603568600 119089 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603568688 215200 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603568851 932722 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603569000 10684 :xgqt!~xgqt@static62133140007.ostnet.pl QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 < 1603570316 900409 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603573548 589763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1603573548 667519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 242050Z AUTO 24022G33KT 3900 RA SCT007/// BKN011/// //////CB 12/12 Q0995 RERA TEMPO +RA BKN009 < 1603573584 333007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :RA RERA TEMPO +RA. < 1603573899 682757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1603573899 915577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 242053Z VRB06KT 10SM FEW027 21/12 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP147 T02060122 58020 $ < 1603573916 640788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :$? Uh oh. < 1603573944 276839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ksfo < 1603573944 515240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSFO 242056Z 02008KT 10SM FEW025 19/13 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP142 T01940133 58023 < 1603573959 77631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does $ at the end denote? < 1603574013 515472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A maintenance indicator sign, $, is included when an ASOS/AWSS (Automated Surface Observing System / Automated Weather Sensor System) detects that maintenance is needed on the system." < 1603574054 968508 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1603574754 594137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it meant you have to pay extra. < 1603574780 603591 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess that might be the subtext there. < 1603574793 389477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This line's going to be expensive for someone." < 1603574799 421917 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was, wouldn't there be numbers after it? < 1603574902 368098 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603576597 1887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :const ACost: Integer = $1234ABCD; < 1603576614 564334 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pascal here) < 1603580428 71166 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603580683 166257 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted the web browser to include a table of contents window; I found that Kristall does, although it seems only for Gemini and not HTML so far. < 1603581478 824075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use Gopher instead? < 1603581602 959665 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can use whatever service is available. I have HTTP and Gopher services available (and also NNTP and QOTD) < 1603581808 771906 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1603583260 272643 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07+-14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78139&oldid=78138 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+11) 10/* C */ Fix syntax and add return < 1603584273 185985 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snakebird looks like it would make a good esolang, as birds can grow any length, they can stuck and they have great hysteresis, and also one can blow a sleeping bird graphic marker to mean something more < 1603584379 560266 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e. g. imagine a nondeterministic machine where birds move in all possible ways to reach a goal or to go through kind of checkpoints < 1603584476 340227 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can encode data in a bird’s form like how many squares does it run between turns < 1603584627 330642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this scheme makes addition on ℕ easy: you have a L-shaped bird and you just need it to straighten at the portal < 1603584851 592657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we need to specify how the bird is placed at the start, e. g. if it’s the tail square that’s fixed in place or the head square, and which orientation the bird is, and also I now see that we can’t add unbounded numbers if we place the snake and the portal both in predetermined places < 1603585068 358183 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s not all that obvious so maybe I’m wrong < 1603585502 260270 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603585868 995311 :zeroed!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603585925 291395 :adminn!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed JOIN :#esoteric < 1603586893 181354 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603587110 963481 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.216.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603587188 852163 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603588153 500872 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603588225 523045 :Cale!~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603588343 961990 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603591617 18194 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603591630 809707 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603592184 676829 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603592198 989830 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1603594102 537073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:TightOnTime14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78140 5* 03TightOnTime 5* (+0) 10Created blank page < 1603596503 109476 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603599829 948625 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603601354 680595 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my doubts about rot7 + {dup drop compose apply apply!} being turing complete. or I just don't see how the construction can be performed. < 1603601449 445072 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603601469 206470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603601710 973217 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as you can't push an empty quotation, you would need to duplicate two pieces of data. but duplicating one piece of data means you lose track of another, unrelated combinator. < 1603605310 819477 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603607258 581395 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603607550 838294 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603608201 204634 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603609514 716228 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@75.107.60.35 PART :#esoteric < 1603613326 169857 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603613443 712871 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603616604 866928 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1603616931 187245 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603617185 118405 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603617225 502918 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603617497 184106 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603620728 906670 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603622053 834384 :adminn!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed NICK :zeroed < 1603622294 910071 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603622897 153615 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603623728 408515 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603623781 16576 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603626407 278252 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7547:76f5:e238:4770 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603627912 265508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603627935 157988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@message imode if for some reason you need an empty quotation, just compose dup and drop < 1603627935 190306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages? < 1603627939 581641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell imode if for some reason you need an empty quotation, just compose dup and drop < 1603627939 614054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1603628005 825554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a question I've been idly wondering about (that has minor implications for PPCG answers): if I have a matrix where the elements are drawn uniformly from a finite field, is the probability of the matrix being singular exactly 1/n (where n is the number of elements in the field)? < 1603628010 118321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just approximately 1/n? < 1603628035 475691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I guess it's called CGCC nowadays < 1603628090 479515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I need to make a good finite field library, finite fields seem to come up all the time when dealing with anything to do with storing information < 1603628124 916138 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603628132 697174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of non-singular nxn matrices in GF(q) is q^n-1)*(q^n-q)*...*(q^n-q^(n-1)). So your probability is 1 - (1-1/q)*(1-1/q^2)*...*(1-1/q^n). < 1603628166 801213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if that has a simple closed form; probably not, but it looks like it might < 1603628169 806107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(different n, obviously) < 1603628260 742385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the simple closed form (if you write it as a product) ;-) < 1603628477 685782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closed form is apparently the q-Pochhammer symbol < 1603628485 875550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm pretty sure I came across recently in another context < 1603628508 838536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, (1/q; 1/q)_n < 1603628564 832623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the first two arguments are equal, it collapses to the Euler function as n tends to infinity < 1603628651 40346 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they come up in partitions a lot < 1603628982 583710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is the probability of being singular likely to be small / invertible likely to be large? < 1603629071 421883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does look like it, the Euler function has values near 1 when its input is small < 1603629191 435289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and I found a Wolfram Alpha query that explains the behaviour pretty well: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=minimum+of+QPochhammer%5Bq%5D%2Bq+for+q+in+0+to+1 < 1603629225 353894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the probability of being singular is a little more than 1/n, but never by all that much < 1603629252 144835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in particular, if we just rely on picking a random matrix and hoping it's non-singular (my use case), we'll normally get away with it when the field is large > 1603629417 690796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Entfedern14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78141&oldid=74960 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10/* See also */ See also < 1603632069 190905 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603632101 730618 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603632791 508913 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't understand the context. what is snakebird? < 1603633168 482400 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re matrix with coeffs uniformly chosen from a finite field: ah, int-e already answered, anyway the probability is much less (if n is large), there's a well-known result that counts the number of matrices over a finite field with nonzero determinants < 1603633271 490120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_linear_group#Over_finite_fields < 1603633333 418792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe I'm wrong and the probability is not all that small, unless n is small? hmm < 1603633344 106144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean unless the field is small < 1603633351 933975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for GF(2) the probability is quite small < 1603633365 284412 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on which direction you take the limit in < 1603633377 756440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for a fixed q, it's always much smaller than 1/n < 1603633385 959843 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for a fixed field < 1603633398 157241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, you can ask a more precise questoin if you want < 1603633508 98937 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603633816 171631 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603634800 196153 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snakebird is a cool puzzle game < 1603634803 644495 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend it! < 1603635282 237477 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.216.204 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1603635293 978441 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.216.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1603635293 978485 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603635623 795362 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's awesome < 1603635626 844217 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at it, though < 1603635755 988763 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty hard < 1603635868 33281 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the play store recommended it to me for months and i always looked over it because it looks like a game for children < 1603635871 963071 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but boy was i wrong < 1603636075 419225 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7547:76f5:e238:4770 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603636628 71088 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603636686 131382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it seems that the larger the (square) matrix is, the more likely it is to be singular, but the probability tends to a limit of (1/q; 1/q)_n which is slightly larger than 1/q but not by much (especially if q is large) < 1603636696 394336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, q is the size of the field, n the size of the matrix < 1603636707 839017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the limit is _∞, _n is for a specific size of matrix < 1603636964 638644 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603637524 370427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603637600 145866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603637780 339972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I see > 1603637864 944475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78142&oldid=75389 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Commands */ Fix command > 1603637884 410497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78143&oldid=78142 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10/* Commands */ Fix commands > 1603637924 380660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78144&oldid=75789 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1732) 10First draft of ++**p; < 1603638592 267690 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7547:76f5:e238:4770 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603640892 526680 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Detrovert14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78145 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+6701) 10+[[Detrovert]] > 1603640896 690176 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78146&oldid=78103 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10+[[Detrovert]] > 1603640899 891834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78147&oldid=77146 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+16) 10+[[Detrovert]] < 1603641362 22264 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that limit proportion zero for q=2 but greater than zero for q=3 ? < 1603641545 323307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the limit proportion is never zero < 1603641734 723681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603642662 858768 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603642901 227339 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603643275 543928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603643331 197625 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603644498 75478 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7547:76f5:e238:4770 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603644668 344397 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603645168 364026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, the wonders of the internet! a second person who knows biology has confirmed the answer I got to my shark identification question < 1603645194 689690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get expert opinions on topics you know nothing about (like fish, in my case) < 1603647589 484751 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1603647604 188865 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603648161 3999 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603650494 471591 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603651079 622474 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603651841 725376 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah that’s great, though still it doesn’t happen too often < 1603652289 561957 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: I don't understand the context. what is snakebird? => that wasn’t exactly zzo38 :D Snakebird is a puzzle game in which you are given birds in the form of snakes on a square grid. A bird can usually move in cardinal directions step at a time as a regular snake from the snake game does, but after each step it experiences gravity and may fall on something sharp or out of the map, which means you need to undo. As the regular snake, a bi < 1603652289 659495 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rd can block its movement and this means a dead end too. In the game, you need to touch every bird’s head to a portal, and they are sucked into it, presumably to the next level < 1603652517 273383 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m not finished the game yet, it’s definitely a good level of hard, a bit more than I’m capable of :D agree with myname and rain1 < 1603652819 803439 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603654657 96581 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603656850 833336 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603657148 902046 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603657618 922722 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603658394 182959 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603659885 150771 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78148&oldid=78144 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+165) 10/* Specification */ Comments < 1603662744 175529 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603664132 118597 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603664165 43841 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603664192 166031 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603665095 835102 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78149&oldid=76501 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+219) 10Some clarifications regarding backwards time < 1603665525 55057 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603665589 840336 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.216.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603665590 31865 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.216.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1603665590 31906 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603667331 107384 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603667497 74287 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603669868 881810 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603670169 115735 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603672932 176547 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603672977 37064 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603673003 153308 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603673548 925364 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603673723 92214 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.216.74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603676817 173216 :zeroed!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in < 1603677257 375011 :adminq!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed JOIN :#esoteric < 1603679044 447902 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603679188 726233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary Pi-calculus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78150 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+1477) 10Create page > 1603679331 171056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary Pi-calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78151&oldid=78150 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+2) 10Fix some misplaced 1s in bound name encodings > 1603679621 550011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Binary Pi-calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78152&oldid=78151 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+77) 10Move Wikipedia link to external resources > 1603679686 457774 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78153&oldid=78146 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+25) 10binary pi-calculus > 1603679804 912272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:RocketRace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78154&oldid=77866 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+100) 10Binary pi-calculus > 1603679881 186276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03RocketRace 5* 10moved [[02Binary Pi-calculus10]] to [[Binary pi-calculus]]: Capitalization  < 1603681069 523696 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603681357 509891 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603684272 265436 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603684552 181481 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603686692 296501 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603687518 540060 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603687783 540554 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603690766 140135 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603691025 100476 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603694014 7540 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603694297 997446 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603694310 447462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1603694313 98450 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arkup-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1603694344 796185 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope he's okay < 1603694757 29039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1603694778 890990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. I was going to email him but then I didn't know what to say. < 1603696218 435190 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with oerjan? < 1603696281 8334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a clue, he just disappeared from this channel < 1603696314 278270 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, holy shit, he hasn't spoken here in two months? < 1603696364 854867 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap longer than that.. < 1603696377 793407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as I recall it it was a gradual process, not totally abrupt. < 1603696392 898015 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anybody been in contact with him? < 1603696495 401523 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the worst case, a "Hey, just checking in, haven't seen you around for a while, courtesy call." e-mail would be a good idea. < 1603697260 298771 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603697461 406854 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603697476 214575 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603697676 135356 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603698371 55689 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.216.74 QUIT :Changing host < 1603698371 129834 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603699716 405761 :adminq!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed NICK :zeroed < 1603699725 487947 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603699883 701242 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603702925 148210 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603706594 147040 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603708863 60570 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603713805 40101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Pi Calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78157&oldid=77430 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+27) 10/* See also */ update > 1603714797 533559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78158&oldid=78148 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+234) 10/* Specification */ Functions < 1603715322 901027 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603716779 531373 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603716989 151846 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn vacuum train//Vacuum trains are the 21st century solution to halt spreading airborne infections on public transport. < 1603716992 68120 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'vacuum train': Vacuum trains are the 21st century solution to halt spreading airborne infections on public transport. < 1603716999 837112 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess that obsoletes the previous explanation < 1603717005 412322 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? vacuum tube < 1603717006 801903 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the London terrorist attacks of 2005, the Underground was completely evacuated. Without air resistance, the trains would go at blazingly fast speeds between the terminals. This is called a vacuum tube. Sadly, current technology doesn't let passengers travel that way. < 1603717012 258921 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget vacuum tube < 1603717014 563965 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1603718971 814822 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603718991 722562 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603719463 23512 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1603719902 823867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603721073 918600 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603722137 73515 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603722202 814564 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603723776 927427 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1603723827 249272 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host < 1603723827 286065 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1603724578 797319 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603725964 58307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603727855 93757 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603730201 996966 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603730908 535721 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603734003 410421 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603734204 436313 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603735283 51323 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603735692 991881 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.9 < 1603735710 749873 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603736073 828435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the new mechanical keyboard. I think this is also not the right keyboard for me < 1603736090 296938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll certainly give it a few evenings of attempt, but my first experience sucks < 1603736121 406471 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has totally the wrong feeling in the fingers as you push the buttons. it's definitely not for typing. might be good for gaming for all I know, I can't tell, I'm not a gamer < 1603736266 973069 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt the same way when I got my wife a mechanical keyboard. it just doesn't feel the same, but I guess I'm just used to the smaller travel distance, considering I use a laptop and type on a chiclet keyboard. < 1603736474 658717 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mechanical keyboard that I bought earlier and returned in two weeks also felt bad in somewhat of the same way, but that one was an easy decision because eventually I could reproduce that it doubles some keypresses, which is not something that I can do accidentally on a keyboard that I'm not used to < 1603736490 982976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this doesn't have such a stupid mistake, then it will be harder to prove that it's not me, it's the keyboard < 1603736518 437939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to take a chance and order a keyboard from East Asia again, despite the pandemic < 1603736574 473557 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me edit some photos, that's an entirely bad test for the keyboard since I'm doing it mostly by mouse < 1603736584 729542 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I need two keys for it: control and shift < 1603736596 740498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll get back to this keyboard tomorrow < 1603736605 196140 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have the headphones here, I guess I'll try that first < 1603736742 12555 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603737812 266266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :headphones seem to work (but oddly low volume), at least the speaker part, let me try the microphone < 1603737908 94186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :microphone works too. there's some noise but not terrible < 1603737919 200503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise in the mic that is, not the speaker > 1603738083 955201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78159 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+2975) 10Created page with "Probablyfuck is a variant of [[brainfuck]] based on the principles of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_computing stochastic computing]. Cell values are probabilistic..." > 1603738098 685204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78160&oldid=78159 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-2) 10/* Multiplication */ > 1603738119 353700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rdococ/Old14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78161 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+4487) 10Created page with "'Ello there. This is my user page. On IRC, I also go by the nickname of Roger9. See my entries below, great and terrible. == My self-evaluation system == I've noticed a tende..." < 1603738129 31235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to fit my right ear well though > 1603738203 3464 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78162&oldid=69934 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-4275) 10Replaced content with "See [[User:Rdococ/Old]] for my original user page from before 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Language !! Description |- | [[Probablyfuck]] || An exploration of stochasti..." < 1603738217 243596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reference: black plug is speaker, red plug is microphone. the other convention is green for speaker and pink for microphone. having two color conventions is confusing. > 1603738333 11440 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78163&oldid=61337 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-356) 10/* Speculation */ > 1603738341 960881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78164&oldid=78162 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+90) 10 > 1603738476 757018 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78165&oldid=78164 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+84) 10 > 1603738568 829200 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78166&oldid=78153 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+19) 10/* P */ add probablyfuck < 1603740203 272527 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1603740583 863796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78167&oldid=78160 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+28) 10 > 1603740990 254556 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78168&oldid=78167 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+616) 10/* Examples */ added squaring example > 1603741026 861669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78169&oldid=78168 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+24) 10/* Multiplication */ > 1603741056 978511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78170&oldid=78169 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-22) 10/* Multiplication */ > 1603741115 556364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78171&oldid=78170 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+14) 10/* Squaring */ > 1603742744 938086 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Khartridge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78172&oldid=51773 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10Cat (technically true, according to #Uses) > 1603742999 79104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78173&oldid=62958 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10/* Examples */ Add a warning: the examples are on the right < 1603743722 546339 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :managed to get snapshot-based serialization working. pausing the interpreter at any given moment will give you executable code that, when ran, reconstructs the state of the interpreter and keeps chugging along. < 1603743823 279355 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: Quitting < 1603744972 654295 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603745108 594875 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-apzrybfnurkovecz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603745111 177922 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wxtscriksaadlspb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603745111 177966 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hdcgfkqnviqtyjpt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603745111 763999 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603745112 368203 :myndzl!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603745157 298063 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603745207 973279 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603745244 957102 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vspfpkckpidjxomw JOIN :#esoteric < 1603745350 120361 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wmzwujyighnemqss JOIN :#esoteric < 1603745551 55906 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vodgcizqpaqyxbvp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603747597 463955 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603748206 301731 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603749002 843937 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603749126 832371 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603749280 165351 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603750106 82467 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603750904 311232 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603751718 841678 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603751770 947708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? protractor < 1603751774 193048 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :protractor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ > 1603751783 386756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EmojiCoder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78174&oldid=66406 5* 03Qh4 5* (+2) 10/* Comments */ emoji is appropriate here < 1603752699 435721 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603752965 220802 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603754643 641976 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603755913 147395 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603755927 496823 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603757687 971414 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603757763 572447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? compass < 1603757767 280047 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :compass? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1603757771 689751 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pass < 1603757773 41228 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :pass? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1603757785 313710 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1603757786 765076 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydraulic tissue exodus stormy decadence egghead resistor flatfoot escapade newborn recipe < 1603757804 482160 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1603757838 876385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I grabbed it at the start of this month < 1603759166 584970 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603759213 173828 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603759976 449100 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603759979 108297 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.223.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603760086 547887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603763105 121225 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603765841 945124 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1603771663 693461 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603772761 523890 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603774247 530500 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603774925 905429 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603776758 905441 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603778846 884769 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603778892 870264 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603778893 910688 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-nflyrazfhwlwduwy QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603778901 277745 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603780346 474635 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1603783008 835588 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603783532 7891 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603783850 535320 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603784091 997760 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603784238 533659 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603784273 263008 :ATMunn!ATMunn@hellomouse.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603784309 798433 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1603784573 272025 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1603784601 217126 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603785192 927372 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603785289 731663 :wesleyac!~wesleyac@bouncer.wesleyac.com QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1603785298 529225 :wesleyac!~wesleyac@bouncer.wesleyac.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603785508 951200 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603785565 86391 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603786075 339367 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603786192 184335 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603786223 718741 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603788555 96791 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.223.11 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1603790830 149430 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1603791186 994989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78175&oldid=78149 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+140) 10Recommended race condition strategies < 1603791231 763021 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603792838 461685 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603793120 171215 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603793943 361281 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603794253 621805 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an awful lot of maths out there < 1603794272 108818 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603794405 239910 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603798621 149530 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft, tfw you work half an hour building a stack of boxes to reach an area that turns out to be supposedly unreachable :) < 1603798696 390908 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ...context? < 1603798944 686342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amnesia: The Dark Descent. I guess my reward is a closeup of this https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/halla.jpg ... stack of boxes from above: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/outofbounds.jpg < 1603798974 610225 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahaha < 1603798982 87033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter also has a few wooden boards whose backside face is missing. < 1603799041 918484 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a strong indication that the designers didn't think the area could be reached. < 1603799052 252572 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1603799060 4938 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hallå!', cute < 1603799063 33034 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :lit. 'hi!' < 1603799108 6012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah you can get a glimpse of that from a comparatively small stack of boxes. < 1603799121 954598 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one that actually looks climbable ;) < 1603799147 563749 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is swedish like, a thing in the settnig of amnesia, or is the sign/message just an easter egg? < 1603799157 872297 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting* < 1603799169 221630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1603799173 278076 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1603799185 509503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :language is english < 1603799187 607973 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a tiny, tiny bit of penumbra but it was too terrifying fro me < 1603799189 159756 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :for* < 1603799194 516140 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I so typoful today.. < 1603799352 375177 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think horror is my thing < 1603799355 749048 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frictional_Games is a swedish company though < 1603799386 40931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is what I thought, but I wasn't sure.) < 1603799400 555764 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's for me either. < 1603799433 394933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is before it gets really scary though. < 1603799624 391889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for completeness, this is the same stack from below https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/boxes.jpg < 1603799663 797146 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and initially those boxes were distributed over about 3 rooms. < 1603799708 939424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. I kind of hoped for a proper secret area, so this is a bit disapppointing :) < 1603800323 528172 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello bye! < 1603800325 424322 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1603800336 575863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been looking at this "reMarkable 2" device. Cons: a bit expensive, tips of the pens apparently wear out over time. Pros: seems quite hackable, all members of the GitHub org of the company that makes it have photos of cats as their profile pictures on GitHub. < 1603800354 239629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that last bit's pretty compelling. < 1603800399 767475 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i baught a likebook with a pen for about half the price < 1603800412 435921 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs on an older version of android, pretty hackable < 1603800451 451548 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the screen feel like glass or like paper? I've got a ChromeOS tablet with a pen on it, and it just doesn't do it for me. < 1603800494 366273 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as smooth as glass, but i wouldn't call it paper < 1603800930 796920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603802458 738989 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a bit angry that the noteslate pretty much never really came to be < 1603802577 891084 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard about it like 6 or 7 years ago and got excited. now you can "pre-order" on the web page with shipping expected in august 2016 > 1603802723 595504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78176&oldid=78175 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+141) 10Yeet pointers into the void < 1603803730 805816 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603803749 734067 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603803853 302308 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Client Quit < 1603803865 726162 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603804349 97003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eternity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78177&oldid=72746 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (+17) 10added year category < 1603804526 410322 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603804586 111684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78178&oldid=78176 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+105) 10Interpreter < 1603805581 810963 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603807208 649251 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603807788 12091 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603808025 291441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAEEEEEEEEEI14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78179&oldid=65118 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (-2504) 10 > 1603808053 40447 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07AAEEEEEEEEEI14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78180&oldid=78179 5* 03Jabutosama 5* (-211) 10 < 1603808347 86626 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603808420 755655 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@75.107.60.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603808983 696794 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603809086 722974 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603810035 81173 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603810510 73047 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603813962 179981 :Frankenlime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603813974 379071 :also_uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1603814606 773054 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603814735 781759 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1603814736 797202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Modulous14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78181&oldid=78019 5* 03Abyxlrz 5* (+21) 10 < 1603814878 988553 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603814952 799343 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603815161 24474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603815858 546721 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1603816573 371004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mantita223 5* 10New user account > 1603816757 106614 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78182&oldid=78137 5* 03Mantita223 5* (+128) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603816779 29477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Mantita22314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78183 5* 03Mantita223 5* (+2) 10Created page with "hi" < 1603816828 524702 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy seems to have a lot of combinators that it comes packed with. < 1603816838 538660 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a concrete explanation of what those combinators are. < 1603816984 173518 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603818292 162432 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.9 < 1603819388 800573 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1603821161 548871 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603821815 894790 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603821833 303157 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all < 1603822121 388446 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to wrap my head around the feasibility of developing an automatic SKI programmer (i.e. you feed the program constraints and it generates a SKI program that satisfies those constraints). If you think of SKI calculus as a term rewriting system, then there are E unification algorithms that do this for *convergent* term rewrite systems. Do < 1603822121 846677 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of you know if there are any semidecidable unification algorithms that would meet my needs or am I barking up the wrong tree for this? < 1603822151 142958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603822159 441151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of constraints are you thinking of? < 1603822169 511114 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to find places to ask these kind of questions, so forgive me for being a little off topic. < 1603822174 670065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :automated lambda calculus → SKI translation exists (and vice versa), but I'm not sure I understand the problem < 1603822192 780477 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603822281 91773 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For example, if there were a unification algorithm that worked for this, then it would be possible to provide the equation (c) (b) (a) apply apply = (b) and the unification algorithm would solve for (a) (b) (c), ideally finding the most general unifier, which would be (a) = K, (b) = (b), (c) = (c) < 1603822294 977746 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(postfix) < 1603822337 149580 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equality here would represent beta equality, as can be deduced from rewrite rules < 1603822383 95926 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that there is no decidable algorithm that does this, but I'd settle for semidecidable < 1603822396 225727 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, that this problem is not decidabe < 1603822397 678321 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1603822398 714645 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decidable < 1603822400 672192 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rain < 1603822406 408150 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603822422 205748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably decidable if the hardcoded parts of the program are simple enough < 1603822438 882642 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write a computer program that will try to produce SKI terms that do certain things, and it can often succeed < 1603822441 492971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reaction is that the only thing that would make it undecidable would be if the hardcoded parts of the program somehow ended up Turing-complete < 1603822501 555654 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it get's tricky, because E unification is *in general* undecidable, but for specific equational theories it's either semidecidable, or completely decidable < 1603822527 837398 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the exact problem in terms of input and output < 1603822578 792408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603822590 271683 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :E unification is decidable modulo a convergent term rewrite system for an equational theory, but SKI as a term rewrite system is not convergent < 1603822599 416782 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any TC rewrite system won't be convergent < 1603822649 674436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603822651 750865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess our language is ` s k i (Unlambda-style, not Underload-style) < 1603822672 826076 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either language would be interesting to look at, but I've been thinking in unlambda style so far < 1603822685 887917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have an expression made of ` and some unknowns (not sure about if s k i themselves are needed) < 1603822686 513656 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, the same idea applies to both as we're just thinking of them as term rewrite systems < 1603822692 486945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two such expressions < 1603822695 366407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and need to make them equal < 1603822699 381137 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1603822716 621341 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* this is best thought of as a unification problem < 1603822722 196135 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other ways of thinking about it < 1603822746 350315 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand the specifics of "automatic SKI programmer" < 1603822748 157753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :expressions of the form ````…`AB…X = (insert arbitrary data structure which doesn't contain A here) are equivalent to the lambda→unlambda compilation < 1603822761 317382 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the input a list of equations like X a b c = b(cbb) < 1603822763 432057 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it finds X < 1603822766 835040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's one fairly useful class that can be solved < 1603822770 767968 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: yes < 1603822777 450123 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem is trivial < 1603822787 80314 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1603822810 61310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have ```Xabc = `b``cbb < 1603822831 143516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move the applys through the equals, to get X = \a.\b.\c.`b``cbb < 1603822851 267813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the conversion of the nested lambda to SKI has known, entirely mechanical techniques < 1603822861 237987 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was more directed at rain1, but thank you for clarifying ais523 < 1603822872 744000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it might be, but decided to clarify anyway < 1603822879 801398 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603822885 593331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as rain1 may be thinking only of this class of equations when saying "this problem is trivial" < 1603822897 863013 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect where we'll likely run into issues is with programs that necessarily require fixed point combinators in their solution < 1603822921 708146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, say if X appears on both sides < 1603822928 178833 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1603822933 919668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still mechanically generate a solution *but* it may correspond to an infinite loop, not the answer you want < 1603822936 976232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's usually backwards < 1603822942 655796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda form X = < 1603822943 590925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like fixed point combinators in other languages < 1603822955 460695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, should be \c.\b.\a, right < 1603822970 84366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = \a.someexpr implies the equation Xa = someexpr < 1603822988 928897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you go backwards, you need equality up to something < 1603823004 148000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603823010 325313 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what semantics do you even assign to your original eqution system < 1603823016 589245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603823041 356157 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm approaching SKI as a term rewrite system in this instance, so it's equality modulo beta reduction < 1603823042 684265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm using observational equality here, e.g. same inputs produce same outputs < 1603823054 96685 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, got it < 1603823096 967787 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was really only worried about equality modulo beta reduction, as I figured that'd be a lot simpler < 1603823136 253313 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603823136 438131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> let x a = 4/a in fix x < 1603823139 968847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x a = 4/a in fix x < 1603823142 984288 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: <> < 1603823147 673810 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficult problem is to find X when given equations like X S K = K < 1603823155 13322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with fixed point combinators is < 1603823168 425730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you would want that to output 2, rather than getting stuck in an infinite loop < 1603823188 640954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: there are clearly an infinite number of unequal such X < 1603823213 401179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2 is also a valid fixed point < 1603823265 653485 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, certain unification theories have proof of the existence of a "most general unifier" which would be, in your case rain1, an X such that all other X's can be derived from it, but E unification does not generally have this < 1603823280 721818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quadratic equation! we have a solver for that < 1603823292 744365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1603823306 427640 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603823341 456363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: x=var("x"); (x == 4/x).solve(x) < 1603823342 867821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x == -2, x == 2] < 1603823352 35207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go to all this trouble to install a CAS, may as well use it for this sort of thing < 1603823369 225988 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(y) < 1603823371 396561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be hard to rejig that into a fixed-point operator, although I don't know what sorts of function it would work on < 1603823408 904641 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603823506 609810 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking in the space between SKI and prolog and it's very strange territory < 1603823515 444760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplest polynomial on which it fails appears to be x⁵ - x == 1, that makes sense < 1603823519 78510 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage is like a meta-CAS, it is bundled with a bunch of other CASes and can also use multiple commercial ones < 1603823527 11961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is the simplest polynomial with provably no solution in radicals) < 1603823538 593760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right, I think of it like glue for CASes < 1603823550 344675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just write the problem you want and it figures out which CAS to use to solve it < 1603823552 36066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of glue like bash is < 1603823564 398864 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly but usable < 1603823579 882544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, this means it probably isn't very good at complex problems that go through multiple domains because I wouldn't expect it to port your data structure from one CAS to another < 1603823722 348709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: x=var("x"); find_root(x**5 - x == 1,1,2) < 1603823723 664096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1673039782615173 < 1603823736 792560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can find it numerically even if it can't find it symbolically < 1603823835 814779 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.223.11 QUIT :Changing host < 1603823835 814845 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603823896 5635 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603824164 882752 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603824539 377864 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My final thoughts on this are the following: If we think about the naive algorithm of unifyiing an expression like X Y Z ` ` = Y in SKI calculus (i.e. iterating through all programs until we find one that works), it's clear to see why convergent rewrite rules are required because as we're iterating through those programs we might find one that < 1603824539 862821 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't terminate (in term rewriting language, doesn't converge). So I'm thinking that unifying a TC term rewriting system is always going to be undecidable. < 1603824662 278873 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this might be a project for a sub Turing language < 1603824857 726232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, that doesn't mean that the case that orbital asked about is hopeless, because such an equation is not pure combinator calculus, and you can't encode it to pure combinator calculus. you don't have a way to force (fix x) to be a number (whatever kind) with equations. < 1603824942 45382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: indeed < 1603824990 101638 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can just give you (fix ) where fix is a fixed point combinator and so (fix x) < 1603825004 722344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :give you (fix \a -> 4/a) where fix is a fixed point combinator and so (fix x) diverges < 1603825087 32567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there also won't always be a solution, because you can write some contradictory equations like X = k; X = `ki < 1603825148 278490 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :minikanren can discover a quine, can it discover a y combinator? < 1603826090 751192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that a quine is basically just a fixed point of an interpreter < 1603826150 642352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me, one time I thought quines are related to Lawvere's fixed point theorem (and are constructed the same way), but then I wasn't sure the details worked out. < 1603826205 609013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should figure out the details. < 1603826337 200752 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kleenes fixed point theorem related to lawveres? < 1603826357 318152 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603826376 92040 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603826412 570187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it looks more like Tarski's to me. > 1603826814 116978 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Dregni 5* 10New user account > 1603826957 886302 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10moved [[029910]] to [[99 (Joke language)]]: There is another language called 99. > 1603826957 971608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10moved [[02Talk:9910]] to [[Talk:99 (Joke language)]]: There is another language called 99. > 1603826989 684922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[079914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78188&oldid=78185 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-32) 10This is left for something else now... > 1603827149 919903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (disambiguation)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78189 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+102) 10Disambiguation page created! > 1603827251 801565 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[079914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78190&oldid=78188 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+33) 10To the disambiguation page we go! > 1603827293 57652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78191&oldid=78182 5* 03Dregni 5* (+206) 10/* Introductions */ > 1603827363 632684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (disambiguation)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78192&oldid=78189 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+4) 10Oh, it is italic... > 1603827520 793814 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (disambiguation)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78193&oldid=78192 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+13) 10Finally! > 1603827647 332971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dregni14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78194 5* 03Dregni 5* (+378) 10Dregni BrainFuckFart dev > 1603827933 295310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Dregni14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78195 5* 03Dregni 5* (+34) 10Created page with "I don't know what I'm doing tbh..." > 1603829861 196547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Esolang)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78196 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+239) 10Will finish this. I need to go to sleep :( > 1603830117 544500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Dregni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78197&oldid=78195 5* 03Dregni 5* (+1049) 10/* BrainFuckFart */ new section > 1603830135 936230 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Dregni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78198&oldid=78197 5* 03Dregni 5* (-2) 10/* BrainFuckFart */ > 1603830196 698451 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Dregni14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78199&oldid=78198 5* 03Dregni 5* (+10) 10/* Open to */ > 1603831050 53627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78200 5* 03Dregni 5* (+1055) 10Created page with "= BrainFuckFart = == BrainFuckFart a surprisingly fun language == === Concept === I started creating BrainFuckFart as a simple C++ interpreter for BrainFuck. As I went and..." > 1603831070 317935 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78201&oldid=78166 5* 03Dregni 5* (+20) 10/* B */ < 1603831216 33153 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Quittin'. < 1603831239 943273 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1603832321 25887 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnsjjoiabatnywnb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603832321 25937 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkwcarqglktqystl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603832321 104028 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603832321 605685 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603832331 996263 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-euscgudbdkpfhztd JOIN :#esoteric < 1603832334 219192 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1603832336 721153 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603832336 836603 :paul2520!~paul2520@paulkaefer.com QUIT :Changing host < 1603832336 836642 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603832348 931687 :^[_!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iztepeaguyumtzta JOIN :#esoteric < 1603833078 537127 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603833206 73995 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603833222 159671 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603833447 751020 :orbitaldecay!c1941244@193.148.18.68 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603837560 780706 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603837996 598050 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603838100 160454 :ineiros!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603839803 876991 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603839910 909786 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603840107 958041 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603840394 151708 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:BrainFuckFart14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78202 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+269) 10Why is this in first person, and who even is the author? Needs fixing > 1603840506 143317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78203&oldid=78200 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+10) 10Add stub template < 1603840730 735529 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1603842084 496333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78204&oldid=78203 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+2155) 10Add command table from github with some grammar fixes > 1603842318 493048 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:BrainFuckFart14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78205&oldid=78202 5* 03Pipythonmc 5* (+352) 10Add talk page entry < 1603842417 467676 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, adding the table of commands tripled the character count < 1603843649 937879 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603844239 827811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78206&oldid=78204 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-41) 10/* Commands */ Looking at the interpreter, it seems that consume does mean set to zero > 1603844286 418489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78207&oldid=78206 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+137) 10/* Contact */ Categorues < 1603844412 305708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603845237 273711 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603845372 768672 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603845883 907942 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603845968 727035 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1603845993 739047 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603846365 793682 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.221.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603846488 185594 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603847416 637204 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603847704 790923 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.221.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603847919 822606 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.221.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603850486 88715 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603855368 49952 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603855501 262938 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktndoftqtmycfxps JOIN :#esoteric < 1603855631 61353 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603857265 922833 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603858204 920709 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603859972 497703 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603860280 440196 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603862965 509390 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603862966 509495 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603863012 445933 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603863022 218304 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 NICK :MDude < 1603863067 419720 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603866301 652652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603866978 809501 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603868444 742556 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603870329 939970 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603871727 634178 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.221.153 QUIT :Changing host < 1603871727 638393 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603872472 605370 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603872623 713986 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603873823 4316 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1603874927 460504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78208&oldid=78178 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-23) 10Clarify ~ behavior > 1603874965 436863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78209&oldid=78208 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+51) 10Formatting < 1603875093 274963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1603875147 104325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78210&oldid=78209 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+108) 10Recommended implementation-dependent behavior > 1603878153 73733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78211 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+23) 10Created page with "{{lower}} '''minasm'''" > 1603878189 876866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78212&oldid=78211 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+4) 10 > 1603878199 954506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78213&oldid=78212 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-1) 10 < 1603878699 435251 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603879705 640278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78214&oldid=77981 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10Grammar > 1603880264 106071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78215&oldid=78213 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+310) 10 > 1603880279 686500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78216&oldid=78215 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-336) 10Blanked the page > 1603880286 691137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78217&oldid=78216 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+336) 10 > 1603880319 111056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78218&oldid=78217 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-4) 10 > 1603880340 329533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78219&oldid=78218 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+4) 10 > 1603880400 192100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78220&oldid=78219 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 > 1603880471 129062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78221&oldid=78010 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+12) 10 < 1603880503 723810 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1603880528 682942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78222&oldid=78220 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-10) 10 > 1603880537 527518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78223&oldid=78222 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 < 1603881195 607546 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603883523 98224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:ItalicTitle14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78224 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+53) 10New template! > 1603883581 440911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Esolang)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78225&oldid=78196 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+6) 10Yee new template! < 1603884205 823947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603887405 573483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78226&oldid=78214 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10Grammar (hm? why `An T`?) > 1603887507 169413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Joke language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78227&oldid=78184 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10Distinguish/Confusion > 1603887638 656381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Esolang)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78228&oldid=78225 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10Distinguish/Confusion > 1603887905 163405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Increment14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78229&oldid=73127 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Partial Implementation */ Correct header level < 1603889627 469975 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603890235 823589 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603890250 740182 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603890266 462395 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Client Quit < 1603890278 735774 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603890717 446993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78230&oldid=78171 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+162) 10/* Multiplication */ > 1603890941 895110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78231&oldid=78230 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10/* Instructions */ > 1603891375 599485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78232&oldid=78223 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+885) 10 < 1603893767 418784 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603895091 930372 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896622 913945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896653 285173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using a shell to run a command, and specifying the command's arguments, what characters can safely be used without any form of quoting? < 1603896699 126422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally in a way that's portable across all commonly used shells on all common OSes, but failing that I'll settle for sh and its derivatives < 1603896738 900876 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896754 436763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure letters, digits, underscores, - and _ are safe, and fairly confident on @ and +; I suspect % is safe on POSIX but not Windows < 1603896760 727119 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's an ugly question and usually leads to no good < 1603896786 718216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, . is safe and , probably is < 1603896814 303723 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you count the program name itself as an argument? < 1603896819 348923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might have reached the limits of ASCII punctuation now < 1603896822 420875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: not for this purpose < 1603896862 608346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, / is also safe, but I forgot to mention it earlier (I was thinking about it though) < 1603896871 756601 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does perl count as a commonly used shell? I often use it on windows because the shell sucks. < 1603896880 560070 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to invoke commands that is < 1603896895 208695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ? and * are safe on Windows, because there, globs are expanded by the program not the shell < 1603896924 288116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using perl as a shell, do you need some sort of prefix to explicitly invoke shell commands? < 1603896934 239135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than perl functions? < 1603896943 37495 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1603896967 309344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, there are some obvious clashes otherwise, like "rmdir" < 1603896992 59527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design the command-line interface for an esolang, and thought it would be nice if it didn't require quoting < 1603897016 128447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably if you're calling it from Perl, you're used to having to quote things < 1603897068 165811 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you're designing a command-line interface, I suggest one that does require quoting, but only easy quoting: < 1603897120 736489 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use ascii characters other than double quote, single quote, backslash, percent, circumflex; plus possibly some non-ascii non-control characters. then you can double-quote on windows and single-quote on posix and you have no problems anywhere. < 1603897135 373116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, is ^ safe on POSIX? < 1603897137 362194 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to go further, make it also no dollar signs and no backticks so you can double-quote the arguments anywhere < 1603897170 208337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the esolang uses base 64 syntax, so programs consist only of letters, digits, +, /, and I think those are all shell-safe < 1603897190 498139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just wanted two more characters to allow programs to be read from a file (as either packed base64 or ASCII-encoded base64) < 1603897208 992174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe "read this command-line argument from a file" is traditionally expressed using @ < 1603897241 150400 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's ugly because non of the punctuations are safe in all contexts. in any one context you can find two punctuation that's safe enough to make a base64 thing, but it's not a single set of two punctuation. I wish it was, I looked into it. < 1603897246 554589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd want an alternative to specify that the file should be unpacked too (or an extra option, but that's boring and this is #esoteric) < 1603897265 65504 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just shells I recommend . and _ < 1603897287 183 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot and underscore if you need just two < 1603897305 966605 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's specifically for shells, they're not the best in all contexts < 1603897323 920624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603897336 796970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603897353 561976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the + and / are already locked in as part of the syntax < 1603897364 774227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think they're shell-safe anyway < 1603897383 790976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, if I wanted some fairly safe base64, I would probably use - and _ as the extra two characters < 1603897411 469829 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and / were usually considered argument-separators on DOS, so a few windows commands treat it specially, but if you pass them to your program then they're safe < 1603897455 728491 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like hyphen in shells, it's considered an option prefix in too many contexts < 1603897467 47197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean that /a/b might be passed as "/a" "/b" rather than as one argument? < 1603897469 496236 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine if you can guarantee it's not the first of an argument < 1603897488 180407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't the entire point of options to be passed to the program? < 1603897517 858507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't really matter whether an option starting - is parsed as an option or not < 1603897522 300247 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes of course, but you might be implementing your language in something that hijacks those before they reach your program < 1603897554 682354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean at the executable level? < 1603897566 927259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing it in OCaml, I don't think that hijacks options < 1603897715 402595 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know, off the top of your head, the option for ghc to compile *your* main program such that it doesn't scan the argv for a certain special string as an escape for settings for the haskell runtime and garbage collector? nor do many other people, so they'll misimplement your language, if programs can start with "+RTS" . that doesn't < 1603897715 854726 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even start with a hyphen. yes, it's bloody stupid of ghc, but I think this is exactly the sort of bloody stupid thing you're asking about right now. < 1603897754 36294 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html#setting-rts-options" for reference) < 1603897791 811213 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the quoting that I mentioned wouldn't fix that either < 1603897821 95176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice sort of stupid thing to warn me about :-) < 1603897870 402143 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think programs you compile for cygwin do something even worse < 1603897878 231627 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what, I hate cygwin and don't use it < 1603897953 673608 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it might help if your programs always start with ./ < 1603897961 60894 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the later minuses won't matter < 1603897966 674246 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually the pluses either < 1603897979 408008 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1603898000 666034 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when it's just shell arguments, not filenames or URLs or mediawiki page titles or some such < 1603898316 437073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603898509 786052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78233&oldid=78232 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+503) 10 > 1603898896 888642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78234&oldid=78233 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+84) 10 < 1603899032 521495 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603900372 930787 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1603904856 41390 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603906796 381139 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603906802 305836 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603909877 900329 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -e s/\'/\'\\\\\'\'/g -e s/^/\'/ -e s/\$/\'/ < 1603909895 588804 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to do this that doesn't look this bad < 1603910249 371009 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried perl but it didn't work < 1603910340 545148 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this code supposed to do? < 1603910586 871708 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a string, possibly containing spaces, ', ", etc and convert to single-quoted string that can be copypasted back into bash > 1603910921 398579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78235&oldid=78234 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1097) 10 < 1603911335 19394 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another way using python instead of sed < 1603911350 229929 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik this is the best when using sed < 1603911376 386371 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't that experienced with sed though < 1603911533 743059 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603912083 778380 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603912156 376596 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603913403 131429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78236&oldid=78235 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+535) 10 < 1603913619 919816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I used a Perl module off CPAN for that; overkill but more readable < 1603913727 787909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my command would be perl -MShellQuote::Any::Tiny=shell_quote -lpe '$_ = shell_quote $_' < 1603913762 182695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's using the algorithm of «replace ' with '"'"', prepend ', append '» < 1603913780 899844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this algorithm is a pain to write down in almost any context because it has so many punctuation marks in it that it's hard to quote < 1603913846 796497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating double-quoted strings is probably easier in Perl, because there's a builtin `quotemeta` < 1603914475 897306 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603914489 595473 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all < 1603914562 609636 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for some insight about linear bounded automata. A finite state machine attached to a finite, but arbitrarily large tape is equivalent in expressive power to a LBA because we can just pad the input length arbitrarily, true? < 1603914877 382268 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To put it in other words, an LBA can execute any program that uses a finite about of memory? But any program that uses an unbounded amount of memory it cannot? < 1603915026 615255 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use unbounded, just whatever that finite bound is + 1. < 1603915130 550512 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: but couldn't we then just pad the input by 1 symbol to allow for the required tape length? < 1603915190 895108 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could introduce a symbol that does nothing but pad and is otherwise ignored by the LBA < 1603915215 490407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of memory an LBA can use is input-dependent; the amount of memory an FSM can use isn't < 1603915235 501003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many FSMs can take an arbitrary amount of input, but they can't store it anywhere < 1603915241 623927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an LBA can < 1603915272 441989 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the input length is > storage space in FSM algos have to be "online" in some form? < 1603915278 565765 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true of lbas? < 1603915310 882860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way to think about it is that FSMs read the input one bit (/byte/symbol/whatever, but a fixed size) at at ime < 1603915318 82513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* at a time < 1603915324 90475 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense to me < 1603915339 641801 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603915343 638720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way in which an LBA reads doesn't really matter, because it has enough memory to store the entire input < 1603915394 775246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are middle grounds, like NL (which is particularly interesting); in NL, the program can store a finite number of points to the input, and read and reread it through them, but can't write to the space storing the input and otherwise doesn't have linear memory < 1603915403 293313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pointers to the input < 1603915414 11699 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603915434 779029 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, can we say that an lba is equivalent to any machine that has a finite but input dependent tape length (because of padding)? Or are we strictly stuck with linear space usage? < 1603915476 252937 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen information that claimed O(n) space usage as a limit, but I'm having trouble convincing myself of that < 1603915517 463674 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the extending the alphabet argument for an arbitrary constant attached to the n < 1603915557 723662 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see why it's limited to O(n) space < 1603915585 77132 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I encode the input to be input + length(input)^2 null symbols < 1603915608 272598 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the dependency on the original input be quadratic in space? < 1603915619 949782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBAs are limited to O(n) space by definition, if you have more it isn't an LBA < 1603915629 574490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, what an LBA can do depends on the input encoding, as a consequence < 1603915651 600933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, automaton theory is concerned with specific input encodings (I think it evolved out of parser theory, and of course a parser doesn't get to choose how its input is encoded) < 1603915691 505270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "encode the input to be input + length(input)^2 null symbols" step is something that an LBA can't do, and if you have a separate program or person doing it for you, that raises the computational class of the system as a whole < 1603915706 78285 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603915746 496414 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh, bingo, that was the piece of information I wasn't seeing., That encoding of the input requires a separate computational object with greater expressive power than an LBA < 1603915767 679264 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you < 1603915834 913163 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as a polynomial bounded automaton? < 1603915844 390749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't think they've been studied much < 1603915875 832889 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1603915929 978681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBAs have a tendency to arise "naturally" sometimes, e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz is an LBA < 1603915942 488403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I've seen higher-degree bounded automata in the wild < 1603916029 925576 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting thing about LBAs that I was exploring is their link to monotonic grammars. I doubt polynomial bounded automata have such a nice representation < 1603916187 126655 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing intuition: if you only use non-nested for loops for control flow in a procedural program, you get an LBA? < 1603916262 157570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this really depends on what sort of memory access and arithmetic primitives you have available < 1603916274 66650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably an LBA if you don't have anything more powerful than "increment" for doing arithmetic < 1603916278 775251 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm thinking in the realm of BF < 1603916282 607161 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1603916461 214256 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is all really helpful. Thank you. I'm going to do more reading and try to expand my intuition on how this interesting little things work. < 1603916462 414573 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603916750 467947 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603916767 792199 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603917484 499756 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603917926 116312 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1603918020 525655 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603918628 472150 :divergence!~div@176.61.146.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603918671 541847 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603919084 530087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603919264 788154 :divergence!~div@176.61.146.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603919295 814541 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922357 478177 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922357 848620 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922357 848658 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922358 113987 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922363 213360 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922374 37844 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922378 812031 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922514 347247 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603924445 579415 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603924914 192552 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603927244 313266 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603927719 168346 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603929503 524541 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603929869 313421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78237&oldid=78201 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* M */ Add osminee's language minasm > 1603932571 557877 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Y5n 5* 10New user account < 1603933221 779538 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603933424 768980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1603933671 212650 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Not applicable 5* 10New user account > 1603933927 147692 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78238&oldid=78191 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+121) 10 < 1603934245 742831 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603934384 811750 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603934398 566901 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.220.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603936807 459077 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehoiuwryofuqygtm QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603936825 844336 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tvcyknnwbjqioqmz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603936838 117405 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603936844 815416 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pkehsujwjkxhciwt QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603936849 884073 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvdatinohkmdljcl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603936861 291866 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1603936866 375530 :dingwat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xookxuitfifkfdhs JOIN :#esoteric < 1603936981 126033 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dkdpshuvsuixqjqw JOIN :#esoteric < 1603937996 799651 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603941299 37594 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1603941308 858340 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 NICK :MDude < 1603941499 545481 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603941757 539806 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603942338 417298 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603942375 171487 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603944742 76212 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603945030 67491 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603945422 442344 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603947127 422527 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1603947986 209433 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603948285 64872 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603949420 757387 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603951231 169683 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603951533 48622 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603952297 780922 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603952938 581906 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603953232 868085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603954632 110005 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603954905 51932 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603956613 254660 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603956788 408713 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7121:26c:4d70:a812 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603956902 190350 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1603957663 535754 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603958856 482444 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603958963 710503 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603959299 481931 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.220.26 QUIT :Changing host < 1603959299 561359 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603960884 750223 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603963932 174627 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1603966053 66654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603966222 572046 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603968444 883258 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603968487 817223 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603968692 473675 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7121:26c:4d70:a812 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603969138 408673 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603969306 910643 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603969766 528870 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603973201 727926 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I'm not sure I've seen higher-degree bounded automata in the wild" => they don't come up often in theory because PSPACE covers a lot of things, and if you go above, in practical cases there's usually some space vs time tradeoff that does allow you to use fewer memory with excessive runtime. < 1603973344 657952 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do at least have problems designed to require a large amount of memory for small input size, in the practical cryptographics sense, which is used to hash passwords such that if the hased version is stolen the attacker can't compute dictionary attacks much faster on expensive parallel GPU array hardware than you can on your cheap computer, < 1603973345 155754 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the GPU array won't have the required amount of RAM. < 1603973445 36125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1603973457 441360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603973888 842512 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me get back to your question from yesterday and try to give specific answers. for windows cmd, for the arguments of the program, as far as I know, the punctuations !#$'*+,-./:;=?@[]_`{}~ are safe anywhere, but the rest are a bit ugly and hard to quote. I believe to quote any ascii printable string, you put a backslash before any < 1603973889 349612 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :backslash or double quote, replace % with the four characters "^%" , and then put double quotes around the whole arguments. < 1603973917 848420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, ^ is safe in quotes on Windows? < 1603973967 570941 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the double quotes hold the argument together so it's not split on words, as well as removes the special meaning of &^()<>| , and of course you have to escape the double quote and backslash themselves, BUT % is still special inside double quotes and you can't escape it with a backslash < 1603973976 256441 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I believe it is < 1603974004 742445 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ugly part is that % can't be protected by double quotes, and space can't be escaped by a circumflex < 1603974025 623193 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comes from how windows passes only a single command-line argument string at some point, and it's split later < 1603974073 833437 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you call the system function from C or perl or python, you have to surround the program path with double quotes and THEN put a second double quote at the very beginning of the command line. I don't know why, it just works that way. < 1603974388 929387 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on unix/POSIX sh, the ascii punctuation %+,-./:=@^]_}~ are safe in arguments; but note that some of these aren't safe in the program name itself, because ^ can start history expansion, = can assign env-vars, % can do job control, and there are a lot of built-in command names, so escaping special program names is another matter; then ! is safe < 1603974389 442642 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except sometimes in interactive shells, but there are settings that make them safe even in interactive shells; { is safe in sh but if you start bash as bash rather than sh then it enables the brace expansion setting by default and then it's unsafe; and the rest "#$&'()*;<>?[\`| you should basically always espcae with double quotes or single quotes < 1603974389 933837 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or backslashes, though there are contexts when they're safe < 1603974447 400730 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, I'm wrong < 1603974452 702600 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is also unsafe in a lot of paces < 1603974458 909054 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to escape ~ in posix shells too < 1603974474 838648 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so %+,-./:=@]^_} are safe in posix shells or bash < 1603974528 693350 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those characters are also safe in command-line arguments in makefiles, though again in command name position they can have special meanings < 1603974604 482867 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, even though I recommend you to double-quote everything, because the rules are saner that way, if you really don't want to quote anything, then ascii letters and digits and the punctuations +,-./:=@]_} are safe on both cmd and sh and bash, < 1603974619 448195 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as I explained yesterday, you shouldn't interpret that as "safe everywhere", because there's no such thing < 1603974640 982734 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all this is only as far as I understand and with no warranty < 1603974689 676197 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna build a shell that's more rstrictive than posix < 1603974708 868916 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: try zsh < 1603974724 848822 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though now I'll have to check when exactly ^ can trigger history expansion in bash < 1603974734 847853 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am using zsh < 1603974736 169121 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :love it < 1603974786 417073 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot > 1603975029 487974 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asparagus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78239 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+637) 10created, is working on an interpreter, and i dont think anybody will find this page so i think it is safe to keep it here for now dont know where to put it though blah blah blah < 1603975036 745643 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I have officially no clue when ! and ^ are recognized as history expansion, even after reading the manpage. I only know how to turn history expansion off, and that it's off by default in non-interactive shelsl < 1603975057 508302 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603975075 424265 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course any of this can be false if you give bash enough nonstandard settings earlier in the file, but luckily bashrc and similar initialization files aren't read in a non-interactive session > 1603975077 559504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Asparagus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78240 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+34) 10Created page with "uhh how do i mark a page as a stub" < 1603975102 626882 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently you can set the history expansion trigger character to anything, it needn't be ! > 1603975105 563534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Asparagus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78241&oldid=78240 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+104) 10 > 1603975333 564509 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Asparagus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78242&oldid=78241 5* 03Ais523 5* (+201) 10how to mark a page as a stub < 1603975397 681270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I think most of zsh's best-known features are also available in bash nowadays (often not by default, though); are there lesser-known advantages? < 1603975440 518367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: also I'm pretty sure that ! is one of the most dangerous characters in existence to bash, not only can it trigger history expansion, it's also hard to escape < 1603975516 275845 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's my opinion too, though someone on this channel did mention some file expansion feature they used in zsh that's indeed not in bash, I think expanding a list of non-directory files, and the equivalent of @(a{137..99999}b) which expands to any file with a then a decimal number with no leading zeroes that is 137 or more then b. < 1603975609 491034 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if someone wants to use those, I can see there may be some use, but I for one don't think zsh is worth for me to learn, so I'm sticking bash for simpler stuff, and perl or python etc for more complex cases. mostly because I want to use programs with windows-native interfaces on windows, not ones that try to sort of pretend that you're in a < 1603975609 970184 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-assed POSIX system on which many features are broken. < 1603975714 361082 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what's the fucking point of pretending to be on a POSIX system if you're on an operating system where write doesn't immediately update the file's mtime? there are so many glaring holes that I'd rather port some of my scripts to exactly two systems, native windows and unix-like systems, than try to use the half-assed compatibility stuff < 1603975734 513704 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because most of my scripts only have to run on one of those. < 1603976146 724369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use bash on Windows, only because cmd and command.com were both terrible < 1603976161 556505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wanted something that was actually usable as a shell < 1603976238 536577 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are terrible, so I write a lot of things as perl or python scripts when they'd be simple shell one-liners in unix < 1603976355 198320 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that even for simple loops that would technically be possible to write in cmd < 1603977176 743128 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603977194 727510 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603977613 84025 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603977884 26255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Quine (programming language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78243&oldid=73700 5* 03Not applicable 5* (+0) 10fixed speleng < 1603978662 721393 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603978720 808910 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603979119 723974 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603979138 70140 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603979138 989365 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603979204 744858 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603979285 420973 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603979300 829504 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603979306 472976 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603979352 275901 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, so apparently I'm allowed to have an empty array where the type of the members of the arrays is an enum with no variants, but I'm not allowed to construct an empty array whose member type is too huge. the two types are uninhabited in different ways according to the compiler. < 1603979453 683785 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not allowed to even std::mem::size_of the latter empty array < 1603979475 465801 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that's for rust < 1603980297 53270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here have opinions on forward-confirmed reverse DNS (as an email filtering mechanism)? < 1603980306 956480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering adding it to my mailserver, but am worried about false positives < 1603980666 730100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, it fails on outlook.com (which has a ridiculous configuration), that's a large enough mail provider that it probably can't be turned on < 1603980898 629694 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net NICK :Arcorann < 1603980948 626127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame Microsoft for ruining everything for everyone again :-( < 1603980992 599113 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(among others) < 1603981067 730984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see a complete list of major email providers for which it fails; I suspect it's more likely to succeed for minor email providers than major email providers < 1603981079 447750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail and Yahoo! mail both pass it, those were easy enought to check < 1603981817 732233 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1603982387 797632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Coeus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78244&oldid=77790 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+0) 10 < 1603982989 68937 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603984360 235229 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Coeus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78245 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+313) 10Created page with "I decided to make discussion because no one has made it. -- ~~~~ also check [[minasm]] -- ~~~~" > 1603984371 853812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Coeus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78246&oldid=78245 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 < 1603984443 718064 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603984588 693255 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603986241 488301 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603986290 182748 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1603986442 917560 :orbitaldecay!d13a8164@209.58.129.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603986602 428930 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7121:26c:4d70:a812 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603987059 106132 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1603987396 563032 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:ItalicTitle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78247&oldid=78224 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10Oh < 1603989057 71850 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603989186 82972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603989567 781780 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1603989611 264063 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktndoftqtmycfxps QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1603989706 470676 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cegrbsleguxxzcix JOIN :#esoteric < 1603989926 220892 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603990102 754574 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603990267 566158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603994599 199404 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1603995404 895323 :orbitaldecay!d13a8164@209.58.129.100 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1603995888 314361 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603996274 510971 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:7121:26c:4d70:a812 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1603996490 553504 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603996552 927262 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603998693 69746 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Quit: Bye! < 1603998871 49359 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603998934 676299 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603998951 503315 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1603999355 996719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603999530 177882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1603999557 652124 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1603999943 836228 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1604000164 8298 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604001776 672761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1604002899 349931 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1604003729 923572 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604004544 815614 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1604004592 170443 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1604004595 410013 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1604005994 264121 :diverger!~div@185.44.76.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604007060 529189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604007128 12233 :diverger!~div@185.44.76.189 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604007349 196061 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604007664 772180 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604008351 270238 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1604008360 492025 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1604008642 750300 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604008966 91555 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? chemicals < 1604008969 122545 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemicals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1604011470 24657 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604011550 835166 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604011755 980980 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604011844 261357 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604012763 940034 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604012790 423336 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1604013958 331321 :iscordian[m]!discordi1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vspfpkckpidjxomw NICK :Discordian[m] < 1604014099 270020 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1604014411 292416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Asparagus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78248&oldid=78239 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10Category a < 1604015102 507432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1604016704 722250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebraic Programming Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78249&oldid=72349 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10/* Builtins */ Add an Exponentiation operator < 1604017393 256476 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1604018082 920055 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604018633 79961 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1604019405 513976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must consumer router software be so horrible? Been poking around the firmware of my ISP's bundled box, which I don't normally use but had to plug in for diagnostics, which immediately slurped in a firmware update on first boot (over plain HTTP, even) so I got an image to look around in. < 1604019438 957510 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why any other software is that horrible? Why firefox updates so often? < 1604019518 379039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think other software is as horrible, in general. < 1604019524 373270 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is < 1604019570 459777 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I boot windows 10, it updates each time, as well as dropbox client < 1604019607 59066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But updates don't mean that the software is horrible, per se. < 1604019622 368120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think update frequency is really that big of an issue. < 1604019623 51104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might just be big and get incremental improvements in various areas. < 1604019652 221925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only mentioned the update because it's what got me to start looking around. < 1604019668 773519 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, but frequent updates is a sign that developers in constant hurry < 1604019668 992121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consumer routers are cheap and not expected to last long, and the software development is bound to be feature-driven. < 1604019693 337224 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You outsource each feature to one or two CS students ;) < 1604019711 456724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the same exercise on the router I got from an ISP back in Finland a decade ago, and so far it seems to have been equally terrible. < 1604019744 751425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604019828 648053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, to be fair, the hardcoded root account's password is no longer trivial. That old one was "ztedebug:ztedebug", this new one I don't even know the actual password to, just a md5-crypt hash. < 1604019910 890829 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you googled the hash? < 1604019923 558784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I didn't find much. < 1604019935 106841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the line in the boot script that starts telnetd is commented out, so it might be you can't really do much with that account, assuming the web interface doesn't use the system accounts.) < 1604019977 663264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it does, it might well have a different hardcoded account though.) < 1604020905 469086 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.219.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604020970 539500 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604022785 667459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604022890 212627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604023493 61475 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604023781 944271 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1604025223 319143 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604025455 198594 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604026672 506186 :mbomba!~mbomba@bras-base-toroon2719w-grc-49-142-114-9-241.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1604027043 916691 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604028297 259913 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1604030012 201193 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1604030539 743905 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com NICK :delta23 < 1604032201 212670 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604032297 466988 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@46-133-113-126.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604033761 361749 :mbomba!~mbomba@bras-base-toroon2719w-grc-49-142-114-9-241.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.9 > 1604034317 131897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78250&oldid=78210 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+376) 10@ > 1604034462 671390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78251&oldid=78250 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+221) 10Document all implementations < 1604040302 459013 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@46-133-113-126.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604040451 168007 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric > 1604040786 218795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Byronknoll 5* 10New user account > 1604040982 849700 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78252&oldid=78238 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+156) 10 > 1604041589 176633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78253 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+729) 10Created page with "'''Turing Paint''' is a visual [[esoteric programming language]] in which programs are represented using images. Six colors can be used: black, white, red, green, yellow, and..." > 1604041989 49839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78254&oldid=78253 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+28) 10 > 1604042100 995235 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78255&oldid=78254 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (-45) 10 > 1604042348 918083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Byronknoll 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Turing Paint.png10]]" > 1604042402 72034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78257&oldid=78255 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+74) 10 > 1604042507 38296 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78258&oldid=78257 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+0) 10 > 1604042606 619120 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78259&oldid=78237 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+19) 10Adding Turing Paint < 1604043272 546730 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604045289 804641 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604045294 624273 :gnoo!~gnu@110.44.127.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604045423 737208 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604046485 50090 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604046612 838996 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1604047777 561936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78260&oldid=78236 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+0) 10COP < 1604047985 48740 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604048666 230621 :gnoo!~gnu@110.44.127.168 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1604048679 146682 :ganooo!~me@110.44.127.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604050036 74903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it run an sshd? < 1604050046 32515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ^ < 1604050162 820674 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1604050223 827774 :ganooo!~me@110.44.127.168 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1604050772 525990 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604050996 157114 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604051273 356552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No. Or at least I saw no evidence of that. The boot script does mention an ftpd though. Should maybe check what ports are open if I actually boot it. < 1604052367 361206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah. and perhaps check both from the LAN port and the internet connection side, and both ipv4 or ipv6, because if the router software were designed sanely, then they might restrict listeneres that the ISP use only to the interfaces and/or protocols that they use to control your router < 1604052387 180756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needn't be on the default port obviously < 1604052478 168539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though looking for stupid bugs in the user-facing web configuration interface, like those infamous stupid ones that let you run any shell command without authentication, might be more productive < 1604052531 491675 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, have you searched online for other people testing this ISP's modem router? < 1604052564 874103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain it's going to have at least one shell injection problem in the web interface, because the other one had more than I could count. < 1604052594 10671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess it's theoretically possible they've learned something since then. < 1604052623 480961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this time it will only have shell injection that checks your password first? < 1604052673 576021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be, but if it has a hardcoded debug account with an unchangeable password, that's not too great either. < 1604052687 303809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if it counts as a modem when it's only got Ethernet ports in it.) < 1604052707 659580 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't those accounts for two different interfaces though? your password for the interface intended to the customer; hard-coded debug account for the interface intended for the ISP < 1604052775 606549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ethernet ports => ah ok, you have a point. I am using one with a COAX cable towards the ISP's side, but I heard one of the two other ISPs does have one of the ethernet ones < 1604052784 234420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/COAX/coax/ < 1604052802 218119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. At least the previous one had one for the normal web interface, which wasn't even listening on the WAN side. < 1604052858 479797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and was that debug login always active, or only right after a reset until you change your password?\ < 1604052871 981381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a debug account after a reset might make sense < 1604053260 878293 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you can't test that < 1604053282 917010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked when I tried it (after having set my own password for the normal "admn" account), so I think it was always on. Not really sure what its purpose was. < 1604053312 123580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't test anything regarding that specific router-modem (it had a DSL thing), I no longer have it. < 1604053437 393512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the ISP side, I think they've got that standard remote configuration thing, TR-069. < 1604055050 806269 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1604055088 762774 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1604055712 445435 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604055765 801171 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604056211 406148 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1604056315 136106 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604056640 283866 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604057580 367275 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have there been any attempts at esolangs with graphs / trees as their primary data structure? < 1604057685 753573 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eodermdrome? < 1604058215 706671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also writing something a little less tarpitty, but didn't really finish that. < 1604058230 990769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Grasp < 1604058979 378244 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604059294 293140 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604059357 383281 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: does https://esolangs.org/wiki/Treehugger count? its data memory is a binary tree (with the two children distinguished) < 1604059393 454353 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's shaped as an infinite complete binary tree, and programs write or read symbols in the nodes > 1604059594 575984 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Treehugger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78261&oldid=49906 5* 03B jonas 5* (+8) 10damb see also < 1604059749 616381 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: apparently there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hydra which uses ordered (non-binary) trees < 1604059761 965420 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe unordered? I dunno < 1604059842 48811 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can find more if you use the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search to search for "tree" or "graph" < 1604059891 54066 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Punctree by arseniiv < 1604059930 959994 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, "Computational class: To be announced" < 1604061482 442767 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604061532 678194 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604062897 252050 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604063186 756306 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604064797 379654 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1604064811 734328 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604066047 564789 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604066115 387259 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604066835 400369 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1604069179 845859 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1604069427 59866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604071830 895058 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604072516 132787 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1604073066 987753 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1604078904 515157 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604080129 995325 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1604080410 507217 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604080423 548483 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1604084283 454126 :Makonede!49e1eca6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.73.225.236.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604084312 159040 :Makonede!49e1eca6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.73.225.236.166 PART :#esoteric < 1604084507 473115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed the new home speaker. the bass sound is not particularly good, but then I'd probably need a larger and more expensive speaker to get better bass sound < 1604084521 290807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sad part is that tiny earbuds can do better bass sound than this < 1604085167 389099 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: :'( < 1604085253 309399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting more suspicious, because I saw a bright blue flash and heard a silent pop, as if something sparked in it < 1604085258 823829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still apparently working < 1604085267 435031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this doesn't inspire confidence < 1604087993 308051 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1604088033 284078 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1604088723 607919 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604089322 305268 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1604089334 294207 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604090726 486614 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604091170 515056 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@96.27.170.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604091782 571555 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cegrbsleguxxzcix QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604091831 762999 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fibfhyqvrylnqbph JOIN :#esoteric < 1604091882 526671 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604096148 337028 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604096493 521707 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1604096552 503632 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78262&oldid=77937 5* 03Tetrapyronia 5* (+931) 10Added PokBattle < 1604096725 513447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604097705 119281 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@96.27.170.132 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604098693 748491 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1604099429 117385 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Debry 5* 10New user account > 1604099495 988948 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78263&oldid=78252 5* 03Debry 5* (+91) 10 < 1604099636 692450 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1604099912 176866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Zorilla 5* 10New user account < 1604099965 351673 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604100019 552773 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric > 1604100102 925851 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Paint14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78264&oldid=78258 5* 03Byronknoll 5* (+18) 10 < 1604101160 320395 :zorilla!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla JOIN :#esoteric > 1604101368 673660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78265&oldid=78263 5* 03Zorilla 5* (+137) 10 < 1604101426 205996 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604101738 307653 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604102060 158205 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1604103374 783145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78266&oldid=70759 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10/* Commands/Moves */ Add categories Languages and 2016 > 1604103445 569903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PokBattle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78267&oldid=78266 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+22) 10/* Commands/Moves */ Add category Thematic < 1604103558 258690 :zorilla_!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla JOIN :#esoteric < 1604103792 326235 :zorilla!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1604104366 517154 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604104455 80625 :zorilla_!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla NICK :zorilla < 1604104479 935723 :zorilla!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everyone < 1604104553 723180 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1604104645 517753 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604105428 111579 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1604105436 191528 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1604107275 798691 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604107370 569812 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.219.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604107618 432485 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604107910 537152 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604107997 737709 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604109380 418244 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursaga < 1604109398 739639 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604109578 543069 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604109769 716504 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1604110868 440885 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604111112 185385 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604111150 435034 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604113651 783930 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1604114103 802729 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604114344 773110 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604116120 843171 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out > 1604116621 453582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sabdt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78268&oldid=77978 5* 03Aspwil 5* (-3) 10/* Brainfuck Interpreter (No Nested Loops up to 254 times) */ < 1604117350 441321 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604117621 430126 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1604118233 186949 :zorilla_!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla JOIN :#esoteric < 1604118481 222655 :zorilla!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1604120597 683808 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604120878 564859 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604121861 86973 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator NICK :Spookinator < 1604123843 451977 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604124146 428236 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604125556 598537 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1604125575 550224 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1604126967 501663 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.94 QUIT :Changing host < 1604126967 501764 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604127098 628332 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604127374 556471 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604128127 516092 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604128186 671816 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604128780 870839 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de NICK :Hoolooboo < 1604130199 176586 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604131696 111045 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604131803 715145 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604132839 182476 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604133557 532303 :zorilla_!zorilla@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/zorilla QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604133749 812876 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1604134210 518914 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604134241 33059 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1604134337 273794 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604137410 894376 :gennN!545440d2@84-84-64-210.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604137865 59787 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604139992 920605 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1604141172 973489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78269&oldid=76604 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+11) 10/* Implementations */ < 1604141317 620334 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604141336 786160 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604145573 505855 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604145920 13935 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1604149283 918168 :gus13!c2c1282f@194-193-40-47.tpgi.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1604149661 665187 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1604149677 735627 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1604149753 529743 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604149754 459711 :gus13!c2c1282f@194-193-40-47.tpgi.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604150579 362408 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604153937 264041 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604154577 454739 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1604156713 553629 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1604160183 759484 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604160453 778319 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1604162271 757310 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1604165575 985074 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604165919 570221 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604166772 560759 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1604167035 641512 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604167058 781222 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604167784 818046 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally an interesting ponder this for nov < 1604168109 423304 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604168126 559160 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604168727 445963 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1604169587 521780 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604170034 763269 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1604170099 366629 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1604170322 461959 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1604170375 219621 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604171339 404953 :kspalaiologos!~palaiolog@176.221.123.97 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1604172202 398347 :LKoen!~LKoen@127.251.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604172355 126654 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1604172375 59241 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604172609 40972 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Client Quit < 1604172793 801092 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604173222 316469 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1604173384 376590 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604175292 205442 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604175493 524642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604177155 830950 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604177359 559856 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1604178586 609041 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1604178841 548003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1604180036 189432 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183036 419681 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1604183086 197638 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183293 274676 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1604183356 758682 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183502 312404 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604183849 797726 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183889 197616 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183917 555349 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1604183976 241844 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604183976 494158 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.218.94 QUIT :Changing host < 1604183976 494211 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604184046 388753 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1604184076 807801 :diverger!~div@92.119.177.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604184344 758518 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1604184363 77978 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1604185692 164232 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1604185836 397248 :gennN!545440d2@84-84-64-210.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1604187273 894652 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Queuenanimous14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78270 5* 03Ais523 5* (+418) 10are the looping commands defined correctly? < 1604188112 151072 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@96.27.170.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1604188117 768757 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@96.27.170.132 NICK :delta23 < 1604188783 922209 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving