< 1601683353 912048 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601683468 573930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1601683469 997992 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydraulic tissue exodus stormy decadence egghead resistor flatfoot escapade newborn recipe < 1601683492 70499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Somebody overcompensated for lost opportunities. ) < 1601684161 770184 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1601685589 236232 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF... https://www.lifewire.com/strong-password-examples-2483118 lists "BankLogin!3" as an excellent password... < 1601685756 994841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I should ban digits and "special characters" in passwords. < 1601685777 479654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make passwords harder to remember and probably don't meaningfully increase entropy? < 1601685790 334949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make them quicker to type though < 1601685829 969011 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should not ban anything except perhaps null characters and some control characters (depending on the application). However, you should not require digits and "special characters" either. And, please do not set the maximum length too small! < 1601685836 180054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they add some bits of entropy if they're not l33t-derived. < 1601685878 415659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it should just be a-z < 1601685886 180686 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary octets should otherwise be allowed in the password. < 1601685887 681253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess allowing capital letters is one bit per character. < 1601685900 331495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 26 < 1601685906 478354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4.700439718141093 < 1601685910 208847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 62 < 1601685913 82597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.954196310386876 < 1601685916 48720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could've guessed that one. < 1601685937 907801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :capital letters... I'd imagine for most people they add one bit per word. < 1601685938 52571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 72 < 1601685940 941899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.169925001442312 < 1601685951 776224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 15 * logBase 2 26 < 1601685954 216926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 70.50659577211638 < 1601685958 688598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably this is a pretty good password. < 1601685980 699348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, people will use words if you let them) < 1601686003 438938 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what word list b_jonas used. < 1601686011 5975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you shouldn't let people choose passwords. < 1601686015 797507 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some people will. Some people use numbers instead. < 1601686028 249766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just generate a 70-bit 15-character password and let them regenerate on demand. < 1601686028 870982 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suspect this is one of his serious entries... so it's bound to be 16 actually random words.) < 1601686069 937195 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that you should let people choose passwords, but ensure the maximum length is sufficiently long (I suggest at least sixty bytes, probably more). A random password option might be good too, though, maybe. < 1601686083 192533 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not diceware. < 1601686111 77308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 bytes. < 1601686115 435814 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good one, good one. < 1601686140 203831 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 bytes would be overkill for random passwords though < 1601686147 636086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :password123xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > 1601686159 211357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kosayoda 5* 10New user account < 1601686162 575353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a pretty useless metric < 1601686164 158748 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: Yes, but I only specified that as a maximum length, not the minimum or default length. < 1601686171 434317 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1601686175 133878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad, I misread. < 1601686179 364168 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same... < 1601686210 545536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, made an assumption because hardly anybody speaks of maximum password lengths... minimum lengths are all the rage < 1601686213 94267 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you can, increase the maximum length to more than that.) < 1601686247 688687 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum length restrictions beyond those required to avoid extreme processing times shouldn't be necessary in any sensible password scheme < 1601686269 843908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That page also says that "BankLogin" is an OK password. < 1601686299 17573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, it's wholly embarrassing. < 1601686310 906844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designed to make people feel good about their passwords, I'm sure. < 1601686329 574984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also says that "kitty" is an OK password. < 1601686344 568706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite saying a bit above that such a password is incredibly insecure. < 1601686349 183528 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: Yes, that is true. (Well, not only time but also memory. And depending on the program, it may display asterisks as it is being typed and there may be limited space on the display, but you can also conceal the password entirely (like traditionally in UNIX-based systems), display on multiple lines, use smaller fonts, etc.) < 1601686350 530121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "OK" is a euphemism? < 1601686354 93649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read it all. > 1601686372 664435 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77793&oldid=77791 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+186) 10Add introduction < 1601686383 676325 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have begun using relatively long sentences in conlangs as passwords > 1601686425 145145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77794&oldid=71117 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+63) 10Add a Python implementation of the language. < 1601686426 204506 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably shouldn't have called it "OK", but yeah the mechanism of "take a dictionary word and add special characters or numbers" is not great < 1601686435 965992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a random word in /[a-z]{15}/ is pretty good. < 1601686448 549063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want more than 70 bits? < 1601686451 469765 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yes, that can work. < 1601686557 61745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always the battery horse staple thing. > 1601686571 312724 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Chicken14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77795&oldid=77794 5* 03Kosayoda 5* (+19) 10Add name to linked implementation. < 1601686609 723450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many bits do you get from that? < 1601686623 989536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a password you type regularly, saving on characters is probably good. < 1601686626 675029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean on keystrokes. < 1601686634 352278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift is an extra keystroke. < 1601686643 642468 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/936/ said 44 bits < 1601686665 563147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10 * logBase 2 26 < 1601686668 299652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47.00439718141092 < 1601686751 607824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` egrep --text -o '[a-z]' /dev/urandom | tr -d '\n' | head -c10 < 1601686752 871404 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmtjeklgfm < 1601686755 685605 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays I get KeePass to generate my passwords except for a few that I've memorised < 1601686866 602943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 bits is presumably OK if you know the password is being stored securely with a fancy KDF. < 1601686877 597162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you don't then you probably want more. < 1601686883 644113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 70 even enough? < 1601687007 386799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 is plenty < 1601687119 674343 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually look at this... Bitcoin is at 2^47 hashes per second. < 1601687185 896396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it way more than that? < 1601687212 268462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate says 140M TH/s < 1601687222 994157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 140e18 < 1601687226 157928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 66.92398872491749 < 1601687245 211405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1601687251 108297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine. < 1601687261 882493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't do ISO :-( < 1601687274 220828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO? < 1601687275 37521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SI for that matter. < 1601687330 152198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so maybe 70 is only plenty if it's not stored as a plain hash. < 1601688141 478063 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh well. The SI/ISO mixup isn't new, at least. But getting the prefixes wrong is.) < 1601688187 861162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the number you gave was 140e12. < 1601688198 380326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's confusilating of them to give numbers in millions of terahashes. < 1601688219 679389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either give hashes or exashes or something. < 1601692668 504729 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601693252 400609 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601694413 376233 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601694544 972096 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601694545 292951 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601696395 897735 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601696760 530360 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1601697700 500934 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-12.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601699551 210557 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` unshare -U true < 1601699552 133435 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :unshare: unshare failed: Operation not permitted < 1601700054 88177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is confusing me (on my own system; less so for HackEso)... The failing syscall is `unshare`: unshare(CLONE_NEWUSER) = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted) But according to the `unshare` manpage, unprivileged users are supposed to be able to create a new user namespace, except under fairly specific circumstances... hmm one of which I can't easily check. < 1601700632 441846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to work here. < 1601700906 857607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :works on none of my (Debian) systems < 1601701071 875374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the thing that I don't know how to check is that EPERM is raised if "the caller's root directory does not match the root directory of the mount namespace"... is this something that a badly designed initrd can mess up forever?) < 1601701107 76379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems unlikely. < 1601701176 671637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other condition is for unmapped (effective) user/group ids... but the default maps map *all* 32 bit values to themselves. < 1601701219 222208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cat /proc/self/{g,u}id_map --> 0 0 4294967295, twice (with some more spaces)) < 1601701295 794294 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it works for root at least. < 1601701332 478353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it works for root then it doesn't seem like the initrd thing, does it? < 1601701347 224475 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1601701368 737560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that seems to be implied. < 1601701515 753808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the EPERM coming from https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.8/kernel/user_namespace.c#L69 ? < 1601701588 281785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume so. < 1601702159 156810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see two cases in that function that return EPERM. Do you know which of those it is? < 1601702690 110934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I was trying to create a chroot to test this in and the situation is ridiculous. < 1601702704 114103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls depends on libraries in /usr, so what's the point of anything? < 1601702708 182217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a silly system. < 1601702793 577216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so inside a regular chroot, you can escape easily by e.g. chdir /proc/1/root < 1601702796 650593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As root.) < 1601702872 291317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Presumably your /proc/1/root looks identical to your /? < 1601703009 268585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1601703046 376821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :root@harpy:/# unshare -U true < 1601703046 601758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unshare: unshare failed: Operation not permitted < 1601703051 727200 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's inside a chroot, as root. < 1601703085 712148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've thought of trying to test the positive case... so it's not the chroot check, phew. < 1601703267 903520 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The linked program says "Verify that we can not violate the policy of which files may be accessed that is specified by the root directory, by verifing that the root directory is at the root of the mount namespace which allows all files to be accessed." < 1601703853 299463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/blob/master/debian/patches/debian/add-sysctl-to-disallow-unprivileged-CLONE_NEWUSER-by-default.patch < 1601703940 794608 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is read permission required if you try to execute a file that has setuid bit but it is ignored? I think that, in addition to requiring execute permission, in order to execute a file, it should require that either the effective user owns the file or the effective user has permission to read the file. < 1601703943 289841 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on Debian one needs sysctl kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone=1 < 1601703953 474008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it works. < 1601704009 884897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Well, so much for my kernel source code reading efforts. < 1601704042 966721 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps only for files with setuid/setgid, although perhaps in other cases too, such as if namespaces have been tampered with in any way at all) < 1601704075 788207 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601704076 643004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm sorry. I went down the same road though... https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel/user_namespace.c#L69 is a useful site for that (it has links for identifiers) < 1601704098 707115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was mostly using livegrep.com < 1601704106 413741 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And only then I decided that it's probably something Debian specific. < 1601704146 750002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love the "This is a short-term patch." from 2013. < 1601704202 580032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "saucy" -- is it an Ubuntu thing? < 1601704277 282902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ubuntu is based on Debian. < 1601704293 421596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's no big surprise if patches flow in the other direction as well? < 1601704313 391933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything Ubuntu does is stupid ;) < 1601704666 934813 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601704743 506827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm somewhat divided on whether this is a good patch or a bad patch... what is horrible is discoverability of the feature.) < 1601705992 114563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only there was more than a numeric error code for system calls to fail with. < 1601706006 980785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they even have any error code other than EINVAL, since it covers every use case. < 1601708746 531907 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1601708760 951120 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1601709484 83031 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601709564 464013 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1601712503 472833 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601712663 877451 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601714323 519388 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phkzvfkekfdoyghp QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601714334 126559 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfsgocqfqsnkqdiw JOIN :#esoteric > 1601720829 553697 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0705AB1E14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77796&oldid=77453 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+414) 102sable! > 1601721357 17016 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Zirconium14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77797&oldid=77773 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-2) 10Synthetic station definitions should be postfix, not prefix < 1601721469 880410 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/evilpass/ <-- that's one way of checking password security < 1601721614 312598 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1601721751 893416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1601722160 927688 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SoicBR 5* 10New user account > 1601722505 239475 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77798&oldid=77793 5* 03SoicBR 5* (+295) 10/* Introductions */ < 1601723541 537844 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601724232 427137 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601727595 983328 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601727687 665113 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601728979 629749 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601729016 899911 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1601729213 451837 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1601730300 38753 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601730445 975548 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601732327 618019 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601732354 73700 :ATMunn_!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-hnucswwkmduqmwbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1601732359 342765 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-ihjmyjyykiaqkmcl QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1601732361 742414 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737637 327233 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737676 21625 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601737769 894961 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure this is the right place, but I couldn’t believe that esolang.org wasn’t already a redirect to esolangs.org. I bought it and want to donate/transfer the registration. Who do I contact about that? < 1601737785 250144 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1601737795 503904 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1601737930 394843 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at-nyc: you contact fizzie here < 1601737998 914827 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent — thank you < 1601738005 89815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with domains is, you need to keep paying for them. True, it's not much, but it's the principle of the thing. < 1601738062 188172 :at-nyc!44a0d97c@pool-68-160-217-124.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1601738212 810557 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah. so I presume either at-nyc pays for them, or it just goes to resale after they stop paying for them, and is a redirect until that. < 1601738235 49339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what would happen if it was transferred to me, at least. < 1601738253 826991 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they don't realize just how old this channel is, and bought it for six years which is basically forever on the internet < 1601738264 875693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure our "brand" warrants starting to collect variant domains. Of course if someone else wants to hold esolang.org (either as an alias for esolangs.org, or for any other purpose), I'm fine with that. < 1601738321 227104 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki started in 2005 I think, and the channel before 2002-12 < 1601738340 872818 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1601738373 303197 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brand" hmm. are we selling T-shirts and such merchandise yet? < 1601738598 451542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to set up a CafePress shop, I guess. < 1601738602 200934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No, we're not.) < 1601738624 193992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a fungot T-shirt for special occasions, but I just got it done at one of those design-your-own places. < 1601738624 365978 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for a while it was frustrating. hb, used his sword into. he went in and killed some powerful monsters with his new hammer to the specibus < 1601738673 465386 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1601738689 889045 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1601738907 631869 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1601738963 357924 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only visit like a handful of internet communities that are this old. perlmonks started in 2000, my user was registered in 2003, but I'm not very active there anymore. Tom7's blog (radar) is active since 2000, but I only found it in 2006 when he organized an ICFP contest. I don't know when I started reading David Madore's blog, but that one started in 2003. < 1601739011 557968 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2003-09-17.0234.html always amazes me: it's a post where David scans some public domain images and hosts them on his webpage. The normal place to host such images would be Wikimedia Commons, but Commons actually didn't exist back then. It's so hard to imagine that now. < 1601739116 342785 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the. ERICH FRIEDMAN'S MATH MAGIC ENDED? < 1601739161 431361 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it apparently dropped out from its former address http://www2.stetson.edu/~efriedma/mathmagic/archive.html , and there's an archive at https://erich-friedman.github.io/mathmagic/ < 1601739172 218898 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been going on from 1998 every month < 1601739188 662943 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1601739287 401683 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the oldest continuously active website that dropped out of the internet < 1601739376 199812 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the oldest, because yahoo.com web search started in 1995 and is still active and I have been using it < 1601739652 233110 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :google.com's been around since 1998, and I'm still using it quite often. < 1601739664 784179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly a "community" though. < 1601739795 86277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.fidonet.org/genlinfo.html "Accessing Fidonet via BBS is gaining in prominence." :) < 1601739823 203814 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come i never heard about erich friedman < 1601739828 409572 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibfuzxnpwejmzkyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1601739882 354958 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1601739893 23310 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither have i < 1601739913 471895 :mich181189!sid268336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggzkrvdtyabfmsyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1601739936 377384 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah. < 1601739991 591524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :sieni.us had shut down (well, removed all the content) recently, that's another semi-old (2005) piece of (Finnish) Internet subculture gone. :/ < 1601740022 389066 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I have a link on my homepage. notable parts of his homepage are Math Magic (monthly puzzles posted by Friedmann, optimized by an open community, i.e. anyone can send solutions in email), packing center, puzzle collection, and periodic table of mathematicians (biographies) < 1601740024 585918 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1601740061 868994 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was en.wikipedia founded? in 2001 apparently < 1601740125 490132 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is yearly regular since 1998 < 1601740138 409355 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry < 1601740145 122613 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICFP contest is yearly regular since 1998 < 1601740169 770930 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOCCC is yearly irregular since 1984 WOW < 1601740176 363554 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's older than me? that's crazy < 1601740206 844168 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never realized that, despite that its first winner contains machine code for two obsolete CPU architectures < 1601740249 895430 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioccc/1984/mullender and for VAX-11 and PDP-11 < 1601740312 433772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (probably-)largest-circulation Finnish computer magazine ("MikroBitti") had a BBS system from 1994 onwards, later with some Internet things (email, a ~10-megabyte web page hosting place), and it was still accessible over telnet up to... well, sometime this millennium, anyway. < 1601740427 623759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBS had a funny time-keeping system, you were allowed to be connected for up to 60 minutes/day, but you could also save your unused time in the "time bank" I think up to 4 hours or so, which was convenient for some of the larger downloads that would take over an hour. < 1601740545 955170 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: until what time was it accessible outside the internet? < 1601740615 981519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently only until 2002. < 1601740625 307226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "outside". < 1601740628 96829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not sure. < 1601740654 800734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they turned off both the internet and phone lines at the same time, in 2002. < 1601740767 340299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1m6ift/i_was_the_sysop_of_mbnet_perhaps_the_biggest_bbs/ < 1601740797 550454 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1601740823 699400 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope someone has a backup of most of the static content on the web < 1601740846 458397 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in, like, one small zip on archive.com) < 1601741729 496692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601742752 421627 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dd7e:7ae2:e991:f583 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601748164 335217 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1601748289 162235 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1601748710 438316 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77799&oldid=77748 5* 03Olivato 5* (+15) 10/* C */ < 1601749601 538669 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1601749619 233738 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Client Quit < 1601749783 975292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric > 1601751180 314595 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=77800 5* 03Olivato 5* (+5013) 10Created page with "'''Complack''' is a simple, stack-based language created by [[User:Olivato]]. Is based in [[Simplack]] created by [[User:Saka]]. Complack means '''Compl'''ex St'''ack''' is an..." > 1601751316 940255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77801&oldid=77800 5* 03Olivato 5* (+36) 10 > 1601751386 356128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77802&oldid=77801 5* 03Olivato 5* (-1) 10/* Fibonacci of the n-th */ > 1601751404 220969 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77803&oldid=77802 5* 03Olivato 5* (-2) 10/* Subroutine */ > 1601751418 79278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Complack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77804&oldid=77803 5* 03Olivato 5* (-3) 10/* Using multiple stacks */ > 1601751528 485835 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Simplack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=77805&oldid=56199 5* 03Olivato 5* (+95) 10 < 1601751760 270334 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1601752117 463167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1601752249 125501 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601752573 856242 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1601753469 968499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601754883 805354 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1601755347 580923 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what software was the MikroBitti BBS system? Was it any common one? < 1601755436 935768 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a program still being maintained is Synchronet, which now supports JavaScript, although I don't know if it supports typed arrays yet (and other modern JavaScript features). < 1601755655 967998 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dd7e:7ae2:e991:f583 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1601757199 900537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It was PCBoard-based, I believe. < 1601757328 25523 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I set up an instance of BBBS once, just to play around with it, but I don't think I ever had it externally accessible. < 1601757402 739916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I wonder what's the name of that one Mac OS -oriented BBS system, with a GUI and all. < 1601757408 450281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, FirstClass. < 1601757480 687049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The local Mac users' community (fiMUG) had a BBS based on that, I always found it really charming. < 1601757531 11569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/FirstClass_GLFN_desktop.png < 1601757547 516309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had these small red flags denoting unread messages. < 1601758873 354192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: phpbb can do the small red flags for undread messages in HTML too < 1601758936 496577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mnemonic is weird because we never had those kinds of mailboxes here in the city < 1601758946 200183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they only exist in the American country < 1601758963 694166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with huge fields where you want to see if you got mail from far away < 1601759144 338495 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1601768404 659109 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great. an advertisment of snack food where the highlighted feature is that the new product is smaller than the previous one of the same brand. smaller. that's it. if they can sell with this, they can sell anything. not that all the spam I get doesn't already prove that they can sell anything. < 1601768750 930178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it called "fun-sized"? < 1601769317 879749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe all the taste is one the surface and all the calories are inside < 1601769324 28630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one -> on < 1601769446 903166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no. "mini". < 1601769460 448762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's a snack. calories aren't the point. < 1601769474 375300 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a salty cracker. < 1601769495 852847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-101.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :biscuit type, not bread type.