←2020-08-20 2020-08-21 2020-08-22→ ↑2020 ↑all
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00:33:44 <fizzie> Hmf. Can't seem to convince Chrome to pass this client certificate to a server. It worked fine with `curl --cert cert.pem --key key.pem https://...`, and `openssl pkcs12 -export -out foo.p12 -in cert.pem -inkey key.pem -name foo` created a file that could be imported into Chrome, but it shows up on the list as "UNTRUSTED" (maybe normal), and Chrome doesn't show up any certificate picker when trying to
00:33:50 <fizzie> connect. Chrome's internal netlog says ERR_BAD_SSL_CLIENT_AUTH_CERT, which (ssl_client_socket_impl.cc) seems to mean "certificate was requested, but had none to send".
00:33:53 <fizzie> I have a feeling maybe Chrome wants this to be signed by a CA that's in the trust store or something (it's self-signed). But who knows. The state of client certificate authentication is such a mess.
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04:31:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Stax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76758&oldid=76748 * TwilightSparkle * (+338)
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05:56:18 <zzo38> Why did the designers of PNG include the prediction type bytes in the same stream as the picture data? Since they are two different data, that probably wouldn't cause it to be compressed as well as putting them separately, I think.
06:01:21 <myname> what do they predict?
06:01:53 <zzo38> The value of the pixel
06:03:33 <myname> what sense would it make to put that at the end of the image? you know the values by then
06:05:37 <zzo38> Yes, unless you require partial decoding.
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06:37:51 <zzo38> In any huffed format, if some values are known to be not meaningful in some positions, and when reading the bits all of the meaningful values have the same value for a bit, then it can skip encoding that bit, I think.
06:38:15 <zzo38> (If it is designed for that; I don't know of any format that is, other than some that I have experimented with making)
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06:39:24 <zzo38> Do you know if some does?
06:42:31 <zzo38> A similar thing would also be possible with prediction, for example in picture compression depending on the colour space some values might be meaningless in some places, so the prediction can know that such a value will not occur.
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07:07:13 <esowiki> [[Enterprise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76759 * Joaomilho * (+2522) Created page with "Enterprise defines itself as a "non-deterministic-unnecessarily-statically-typed Turing-complete-ish, [https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise/issues/41 Quantum-out-o..."
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07:08:56 <esowiki> [[Enterprise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76760 * Joaomilho * (+88) Created page with "For the Enterprise language, redirect [https://esolangs.org/wiki/Enterprise here]."
07:10:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76761&oldid=76745 * Joaomilho * (+20)
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08:55:41 <int-e> `? cattitude
08:55:44 <HackEso> cattitude? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
08:59:04 <int-e> `learn Cattitude is a combination of pride, entitlement, indifference, and cruelty that humans can never hope to achieve.
08:59:06 <HackEso> Learned 'cattitude': Cattitude is a combination of pride, entitlement, indifference, and cruelty that humans can never hope to achieve.
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11:27:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: but it's not just a huffed stream, it's a deflated stream, and you need those prediction types as you decode the image data from top to bottom and the encoder figures them out as it encodes the image from top to bottom
11:28:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: and as it's a deflated stream, not a huffed stream, compressing it together with the pixel data makes slightly more sense, and gives a simpler implementation
11:34:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: PNG is an old format, so simple implementation was important so that you can decode a PNG on cheap old devices
11:37:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: constrast this to JPEG, which does huffmanize DCT coefficients (with some species RLE cases for runs of zeroes). Traditionally JPEG encoded all coefficients together in the same huffmanized stream, which isn't too efficient. But they fixed that later with progressive JPEG. Almost all JPEG decoders, except a few cheap phones, can decode that now. Progressive JPEG splits coefficients to groups,
11:37:40 <b_jonas> each of which is encoded in its own huffmanized section, with possible separate encodings, which both reduces files size and gives better outputs for partially decided streams.
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11:43:17 <esowiki> [[User:TwilightSparkle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76762 * OsmineYT * (+156) Created page with "created this page bc the user didn't had it -- ~~~~"
11:44:04 <esowiki> [[Jsfunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76763&oldid=72954 * OsmineYT * (+9)
11:44:50 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76764&oldid=76731 * OsmineYT * (-22)
11:45:02 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76765&oldid=76764 * OsmineYT * (+1)
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16:56:18 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, I know that. But my other question was not only about PNG.
16:59:31 <zzo38> (Also, what I mentioned about meaningless values isn't applicable to PNG anyways; all pixel values are meaningful, unless you are for some reason using prediction filters for indexed colours, which isn't normally done.)
17:00:24 <zzo38> (The prediction types themself do have meaningless values; one way they could do without complicate the decoder much is to ignore the high bits of the prediction type byte)
17:06:06 <b_jonas> zzo38: prediction filters are useful for indexed colors, if your image has a lot of areas of solid color
17:06:14 <b_jonas> well, maybe not too much
17:06:24 <b_jonas> because deflate already compresses that well
17:06:30 <b_jonas> but they're not entirely useless
17:08:36 <zzo38> I think other formats (e.g. Maki-chan, and YZIP picture libraries) that use prediction for indexed colours use XOR filters for prediction instead, though.
17:10:57 <zzo38> YZIP picture format uses huffed RLE of the XOR filtered data. What algorithm for reordering the palette (including duplicates, if that would be helpful) would help to optimize this?
17:37:43 <int-e> `"
17:37:45 <HackEso> 1/1:484) <fizzie> "Do a sea monster while whatever." \ 838) <pikhq> Conext coyou'll cotell come cothat coyou cocan't coprefix coeverything cowith co"co". <oerjan> pikhq: coof urse conot!
17:40:43 * pikhq is coproud of that
17:42:00 <int-e> I draw the line at coconut and coworker jokes.
17:42:20 * pikhq shrugs
17:42:38 <int-e> Everything beyond that is just abstract nonsense.
17:46:22 <pikhq> I like abstract nonsense
17:46:33 <pikhq> As my college studies can attest
17:46:36 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76766&oldid=76244 * Digital Hunter * (+146) /* Advanced techniques */ functions, to be continued
17:46:40 <int-e> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/8/20/21377305/postal-service-steve-bannon-arrest is interesting. And then there's that tweet they cite: "The Postal Service has police? That’s really pushing the envelope."
17:46:53 <b_jonas> no coconut jokes? coward.
17:46:59 <b_jonas> `? coconut
17:47:00 <HackEso> coconut? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:47:29 <int-e> b_jonas: I described a closed set, not an open one.
17:47:47 <int-e> `grWp coconut
17:47:49 <HackEso> No output.
17:47:55 <int-e> `" coconut
17:47:56 <HackEso> 1/0:
17:47:59 <int-e> err
17:48:05 <int-e> `quote coconut
17:48:06 <HackEso> No output.
17:48:19 <pikhq> Does a double-co cancel out?
17:48:24 <pikhq> Is a co-co-nut just a nut?
17:48:36 <int-e> pikhq: that is the joke.
17:48:39 <b_jonas> depends
17:48:42 <pikhq> int-e: alas
17:48:42 <int-e> It's funny because coconuts are not nuts.
17:48:52 <pikhq> nor are peanuts, and yet
17:49:26 <int-e> pikhq: Let's agree on "funny" then.
17:49:37 <pikhq> yes
17:50:08 <int-e> An office worker moves items from the TODO pile to the DONE pile. A coworker...
17:50:21 <b_jonas> where are cocoons in that set?
17:50:33 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76767&oldid=76766 * Digital Hunter * (+114) /* Logic flow */
17:50:42 <b_jonas> I guess they're on
17:50:43 <int-e> b_jonas: Outside, I think.
17:50:46 <pikhq> *wince*
17:55:32 <int-e> I want a truth in cookie related messages law.
17:55:35 <int-e> "We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website."
17:55:40 <int-e> Sure you do.
17:56:13 <pikhq> "we use cookies because fuck you"
17:56:35 <int-e> Yeah, that's how I read it.
18:00:10 <int-e> https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-dns-traffic/ <-- At which point does this qualify as distributed denial of service?
18:03:07 <arseniiv_> hi it seems there are no illustrated videos about mathematically defined spinors for people not too keen with maths
18:03:29 <arseniiv_> that’s pretty bad as we have a general theory for a long time
18:03:30 <zzo38> Add message such as "Cookies and JavaScripts are not needed for this web page." and then add a link to a message to explain how to disable JavaScripts
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18:52:42 <esowiki> [[Talk:Psychairefatback (Archive)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76768 * Ashtons * (+679) Created page with "== Oof == I'm going to be honest, it kinda hurt a bit (in a good way) to see that someone actually liked my idea for an esoteric language and decided to archive it when past..."
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19:12:55 <esowiki> [[User:Ashtons]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76769&oldid=68832 * Ashtons * (+269)
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20:28:35 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76770&oldid=76767 * Digital Hunter * (+96) /* Example programs */
20:49:18 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76771&oldid=76770 * Digital Hunter * (+1298) /* Advanced techniques */
21:16:37 <esowiki> [[Talk:Psychairefatback (Archive)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76772&oldid=76768 * Ashtons * (-1)
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