< 1593736020 911094 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowI < 1593736021 245177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 030020Z AUTO 26004KT 9999 FEW005 BKN007 17/16 Q1017 < 1593736068 210124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put my thing up: https://github.com/shachaf/mustardwatch < 1593736537 573024 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-104-154.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593737058 218765 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of some idea of Magic: the Gathering card: {?} World Enchantment ;; When ~ enters the battlefield, each player may put a world card from their graveyard into their hand. ;; The world rule does not apply. ;; Cumulative upkeep {2} < 1593737344 979520 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593737366 720942 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1593740137 464071 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593743031 91998 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you find the mistake in my program before I did? < 1593743058 180785 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if the mistake is rather the test) < 1593743470 707990 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593748910 372143 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 QUIT :Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com) < 1593751704 582368 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1bf:b542:2bf2:ed74 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593751981 423154 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:a1bf:b542:2bf2:ed74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1593753684 368274 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1d48:59a4:cf66:b7d5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593753969 446411 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:1d48:59a4:cf66:b7d5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593755829 346835 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the mistake was actually the test) < 1593758606 861935 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593758973 356832 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a simple way to make a C and PostScript polyglot program: Write the PostScript code first, with "/* pop" at the beginning, and "quit */" or "currentfile flushfile */" at the end. < 1593759134 873889 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you are at it, you could also make it lhs < 1593759230 780943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can be done easily enough, too. < 1593759434 403501 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f06f:5d5d:5be5:b8ba JOIN :#esoteric < 1593759891 376805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if you need a C and PostScript polyglot; I do use C and shell script polyglots though.) < 1593760451 363729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1593760575 830171 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly to include compilation commands in the file < 1593760757 205386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all my shell scripts include #! < 1593760998 226789 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1593761097 665719 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I just run it with "bash xyz.c" or whatever, so #! is not needed in that case (nor is the execute bit needed). < 1593761479 11487 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My shell scripts that are not C programs do include #! at first and do have the execute bit) < 1593763061 166131 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593764861 50472 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593764932 934212 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1593766015 309501 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StupidStackLanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75045&oldid=74858 5* 03Lebster 5* (-62) 10/* Operations */ < 1593766723 194996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-10.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: another way to make a C and PostScript polyglot depends on the C++ digraphs that were introduced to C by the C95 standard: https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=520045 < 1593766879 373540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-10.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=523373 has a more polyglot version < 1593766890 374298 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593767021 99329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-10.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the longer C and PostScript polyglot uses a different trick to start out and no digraphs: https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=591502 < 1593767037 163990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-10.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure I know who posted those anonymous nodes.) < 1593767072 936016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-10.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1593768173 594810 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593768225 585142 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1593768242 214744 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1593768660 504942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ASCII14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75046&oldid=69949 5* 03Lebster 5* (+4256) 10added table < 1593768706 467560 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593768713 675912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1593768717 281799 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:lkoen//LKoen vivait en haut de la Tour Eiffel, mais il s'est préfixé d'un L et s'est envolé. \ paperless//In a paperless world, rock would never lose. \ dew//In the Famous Mountains of York, Taneb makes dew. \ warning//Warnings indicate when you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. \ just intonation//Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation. < 1593768892 297302 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cwlprits just intonation < 1593768894 241628 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafët < 1593768929 637371 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was funny in context? seems entirely forgettable to me... < 1593769034 984054 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it's play on "bad-tempered" vs "well-tempered"? < 1593769055 567983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ah, maybe < 1593769076 523963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't very musical.
< 1593769101 503377 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell arseniiv Right, so lambdabot doesn't actually tell you that you have messages, until you *say something* on the channel. < 1593769101 503437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1593769115 558868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it certainly makes it better :) < 1593769171 412293 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I believe the main lambdabot authors were the screen- or irc bouncer kind of people. < 1593769200 244602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes merely joining a channel a bad indicator of activity < 1593769256 878743 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that we were trying to figure out what the trigger actually was, the other day < 1593769299 372369 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's activity on the channel. And then there's a rate limit, so I suppose testing it out can be a little hard. < 1593769367 794924 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd have to check the code, but I believe it just keeps a time stamp of the latest notification which is checkd even when there are new messages.) < 1593769459 671014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check actually. < 1593769562 562289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wrong. There is a rate limit (pretty low, once per day), but it is reset when a new message is added. < 1593769747 422567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an above-average pun for wisdom, I think! < 1593769807 723299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's good, but too advanced for me. < 1593769892 565056 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody else find youtube's (relatively new) mini player annoying? < 1593770001 892397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I've seen it. < 1593770004 463182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What happens is that I search for a video, click a thumbnail, and expect to get the video page... but if I click a bit too far to the right it triggers the "add to queue" action that activates the mini player.) < 1593770036 636527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouTube seems pretty user-hostile to me. They always turn on autoplay which I doubt is what hardly anyone wants by default, but is surely good for \rainbow{engagement}. < 1593770095 828415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good use of the rainbow command. < 1593770124 913647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, autoplay is high on my personal list of youtube annoyances. < 1593770133 652473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use the actual rainbow command, but I think you have colors and colours disabled. < 1593770144 84138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1593770148 674631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, as Google says: "We believe that advertising can be effective without being flashy. We don’t accept pop–up advertising, which interferes with your ability to see the content you’ve requested." < 1593770154 817176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think YouTube captures this quite well. < 1593770211 363251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the Pragmatics of SAT workshop is in about 4 hours. < 1593770228 619950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to try attending but I doubt I should be awake then. < 1593770450 736311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the mini player (or rather, the queuing feature that goes with it) could actually be fun if I didn't trigger it accidently so much. < 1593770517 564965 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, 95% of the time I want to watch one video at a time. < 1593770577 456414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I even asked here how to play an individual video from a playlist not too long ago. < 1593770615 677666 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. Enough whining about bad UI/UX for today. :) < 1593770907 117087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using random SAT instances for testing was probably not a great idea. < 1593771007 447661 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1593771061 962836 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of \rainbow{engagement}, I am saddened to note that Mozilla has apparently decided that their browser's "blank page" should in fact include headlines/previews of "recommended articles" < 1593771076 67783 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I've read a bit about random instances but nothing stuck. < 1593771134 56382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, many of the interesting tricks are just not very relevant for random instances. < 1593771140 562762 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yeah I still configure it to have a proper blank page. < 1593771167 367047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there was a lot of progress when people started using industrial instances instead of random instances as benchmarks? < 1593771193 427031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a similar thing about allocators -- that people used to test allocator performance with synthetic workloads, and they became much better when people started using real workloads. < 1593771203 108540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to have random instances that simultaneously exhibt the kind of locality you get in real life. < 1593771229 147332 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just a vague idea that sounds smart, with no real insight in how to overcome it. < 1593771251 965987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~vganesh/Publications_files/vg2015-SATGraf-SAT15.pdf is probably related to that? < 1593771300 687675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the pretty SAT instance pictures. < 1593771304 839864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: mozilla's doing way too much syndication these days. < 1593771322 501681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including things like "recommend extensions when you browse" < 1593771328 971697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/when/as/ < 1593771331 824762 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yeah, I've noticed. < 1593771381 595681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's recommended extension is .jpg < 1593771456 216280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1593771457 506298 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is peeping Tom. < 1593771590 543539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, null window searches. < 1593771600 75869 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, July's is still up for grabs. < 1593771620 258040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is still up for grabs. < 1593771625 496769 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is still up for grabs. < 1593771699 479436 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm setting potm by proxy < 1593771712 600843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured you were doing that. < 1593771726 394296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with maybe 70% confidence. < 1593771734 29451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I don't get points for saying that after you. < 1593771777 915835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't, but is anybody going to believe that... < 1593771790 30972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1593771813 700909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's the worst of all worlds for me. < 1593771835 600675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I have this function that writes some strings to a FILE * argument. If you pass it stdout it works fine, but if you pass it stderr it writes and flushes a lot of small strings. < 1593771839 589517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the way to get around that? < 1593771858 930103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ideally it wouldn't write to a FILE * at all but just give you a string, or something... < 1593771884 314111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know what's ideal. < 1593772023 444373 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593772100 868910 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinker with setbuf() to make stderr buffered, or write to a string buffer, then write that to the file? < 1593772121 692591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or setlinebuf) < 1593772143 419790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would be a good API to give callers in practice. < 1593772193 31134 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593772201 424509 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1593772207 435045 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wasn't aware of fmemopen. < 1593772270 35129 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or its dynamic friend, open_memstream) < 1593772387 420900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's another thing I was considering. < 1593772406 519923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather I was considering open_memstream, I didn't know about the other one. < 1593772503 263711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the general case you don't necessarily want the entire output to be in memory, though. You just want a fixed buffer that you can flush. < 1593772528 720269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess setbuf works OK but it makes the caller do more work. < 1593772673 701363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the function should do its own buffering. < 1593772687 853963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you'd add a buffer temporarily if there isn't one already... but you can't query whether an fd is buffered, I think. < 1593772713 162214 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, file handle, of FILE * type. < 1593772756 90027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1593772772 363272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the ideal API to present is maybe something like a state machine, but that makes the function way more work to write. < 1593773059 480431 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Note: this function makes many small writes to the FILE * passed to it -- it may behoove you to ensure it is buffered. */ < 1593773076 173713 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I'd do < 1593773082 211414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"behoove" < 1593773090 601775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fancy < 1593773220 346391 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a word that I use strangely frequently considering how funny it is < 1593773231 167851 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that it's the mot juste sometimes < 1593773266 792548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fine, just really rare, and maybe a tad condescending. < 1593773291 20579 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it may be in your interests to ensure that it's buffered" is a bit long. "You might want to ensure it is buffered", maybe. < 1593773300 232607 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is, I don't know what the caller wants. < 1593773300 336071 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe a bit out of place for technical documentation? I don't know. < 1593773316 711341 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they want lots of small writes on an unbuffered stream. It's possible! < 1593773335 247420 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to phrase this in a way that does not come across as condescending. You are giving advice after all. < 1593773374 426025 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other option is just to have the first part of the comment, and hope the client can infer the second part. < 1593773419 739574 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a result, this function may be slow on unbuffered streams. < 1593773456 314130 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, that's less opinionated. < 1593773515 948554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You better ensure the stream is buffered unless you like your code slowing down to a crawl! < 1593773531 623635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum :) < 1593773572 725777 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is also really close to bikeshedding. < 1593773654 283404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OK, but it's supposed to be maximally convenient to use. < 1593773698 811186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe making every caller do setbuf is OK, but it seems annoying since this'll be in all of my programs. < 1593773800 650517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximal convenience indicates you should bite the bullet and do your own internal buffering, and live with the memory overhead and potential double copying. < 1593773807 380406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specific case is a function that generates --help text for programs. < 1593773826 662177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it probably all doesn't matter. < 1593773835 775466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh this doesn't sound performance critical at all < 1593773857 339127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1593773865 923964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then KISS it < 1593773888 393154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just this does things like indenting by printing a bunch of spaces in a loop, and it's not great to have each one be a system call. < 1593773902 845825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Huh, why have I never seen anybody use that as a verb? It's so natural!) < 1593773938 366045 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the sexual connotations make it inappropriate in most contexts. < 1593773938 577244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everyone says "KitSS". It really rolls off the tongue. < 1593774034 124567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there things like printf("%*s", n, "")? < 1593774544 813625 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593774694 804116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1593774765 888488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are! < 1593774832 464822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That helps with the worst of it. But there are still other things like if (x) { printf("..."); } else { printf(" "); } < 1593774947 965509 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593775118 416387 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The specific case is a function that generates --help text for programs. <== I'm going to go out on a limb and say that on modern machines, such text will always easily fit in memory. < 1593775153 99783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true. But then the caller would need to give it a buffer or something. < 1593775157 150824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it would need to use malloc. < 1593775203 169045 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be a sad thing for it to use malloc? < 1593775238 515696 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In specific, I had the thought, "If only there was a version of sprintf() that just doubles the size of the buffer each time it would otherwise overflow". < 1593775263 666631 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to be fair I haven't programmed in C in years and years now < 1593775335 69005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's silly for an API to use malloc if it doesn't need to. < 1593775348 491537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be available. < 1593775357 556339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't great for temporary allocations anyway. < 1593775479 47451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously you should be using CPP magic to make the help message a constant string. < 1593775511 626038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already using too much other magic to generate it. < 1593775628 629018 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's important to hang on to those shreds of sanity :) < 1593776299 938282 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593777555 37865 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 QUIT :Quit: Lunch. > 1593777765 863346 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07H9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75047&oldid=71612 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+382) 10 > 1593777801 684163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07H9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75048&oldid=75047 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+9) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1593777839 227587 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07H9+14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75049&oldid=75048 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+49) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1593777964 358745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LSCEF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75050&oldid=69599 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* Usage in interpreters */ cat > 1593778040 605988 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Screw14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75051&oldid=64120 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+22) 10 > 1593778104 666934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75052&oldid=66183 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10cat + stub > 1593778293 204719 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75053&oldid=71968 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+108) 10/* External resources */ > 1593778307 529493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75054&oldid=75053 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10/* Implemetation */ > 1593778330 907159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75055&oldid=75054 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Implemetation */ grm > 1593778343 569775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07La We14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75056&oldid=75055 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Implemetantion */ > 1593778446 794344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Starfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75057&oldid=50717 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-13) 10link = null; > 1593778510 495419 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Fish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75058&oldid=71248 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-8) 10link.hasPipe = false; > 1593779133 203431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Thue-Mirr14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75059&oldid=60088 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10bold + move cats < 1593779191 789577 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the esolang cats have whiskers? < 1593779381 279414 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a language-dependent thing < 1593779688 14078 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593779754 812897 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75060&oldid=74999 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+184) 10 < 1593779784 710727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hon. and learned friend fungot how’s the weat < 1593779784 710781 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ( and he didn't bother. < 1593779824 47059 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…her > 1593780338 760806 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75061&oldid=75022 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+335) 10 < 1593780425 84662 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593780811 976139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:EsohackGraph.png10]]" > 1593780910 156607 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75063&oldid=75061 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+57) 10 > 1593781143 833602 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75064&oldid=75063 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+49) 10 > 1593781418 334420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75065&oldid=75044 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+585) 10 > 1593781437 365219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75066&oldid=75065 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+5) 10escape pipe < 1593781497 412852 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593781498 705627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75067&oldid=75064 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+58) 10 > 1593781559 931096 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75068&oldid=75067 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+15) 10 > 1593782445 668528 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75069&oldid=75068 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+70) 10 > 1593782513 60199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75070&oldid=75060 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10 > 1593782561 712524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75071&oldid=56028 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+45) 10 > 1593782676 429548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assemblyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75072&oldid=75071 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10/* See Also: */ cats > 1593782690 380099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Assemblyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75073&oldid=75072 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Specification and instructions */ 5 += 1 > 1593783129 921655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=75074 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+35) 10Created page with "== My idea for making a compiler ==" > 1593783764 193760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75075&oldid=75074 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+508) 10 > 1593783777 703279 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75076&oldid=75075 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-2) 10 < 1593783795 572311 :grumble!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: Well, would you look at the time. I've almost missed my ambiguous, non-existent appointment that I have scheduled just when I start to lose interest in my current conversation. > 1593783796 257024 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75077&oldid=75076 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+13) 10 < 1593783829 796308 :grumble!~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric > 1593784157 227937 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75078&oldid=75077 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+186) 10 > 1593784190 167807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Skyf0l 5* 10New user account > 1593784329 962905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75079&oldid=75078 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+20) 10 > 1593784506 727721 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75080&oldid=75079 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+105) 10 > 1593784529 481555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75081&oldid=74951 5* 03Skyf0l 5* (+114) 10I have added me ! > 1593784672 347049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75082&oldid=75066 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1112) 10 < 1593784967 297139 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: hi. Generalized Minksy machine is very cool, but to implement it in Tandem wouldn't you need to be able to define a concrete string representation for each of the values? Would there be a way to do this canonically? < 1593785070 968878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hi! < 1593785073 239950 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, Tandem is still broken, because ⊥ and algebraic manipulations hate each other) < 1593785171 647307 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’d represent values in a prefix (Polish) notation, or maybe in a S-expression notation or similar, but it seems they are all stack-unfriendly > 1593785224 294052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75083&oldid=72330 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+261) 10/* Commands */ code tags + newline is obvious > 1593785235 827790 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75084&oldid=75083 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-35) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1593785303 802384 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75085&oldid=75084 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-16) 10/* Auto-formatting */ > 1593785316 503329 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Eso2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75086&oldid=75085 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Auto-formatting */ edit spam > 1593785329 149011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75087&oldid=75082 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+379) 10/* Elements */ < 1593785338 385425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example let { data Nat = Z | S Nat; data ListN = N | C Nat ListN }, then I would represent C (S (S Z)) $ C Z $ C (S (S (S Z))) N as CSSZCZCSSSZN or (C(S(SZ))(CZ(C(S(S(SZ)))N))) > 1593785376 257521 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75088&oldid=74809 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10 < 1593785385 13356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, it seems S-expressions may be friendly if we use something to track open parentheses discarded, why > 1593785386 476003 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75089&oldid=75088 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+10) 10 < 1593785433 709887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that’s all like you used for the usual Minsky machine with nats, though you used an empty string for Z > 1593785457 527886 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75090&oldid=75080 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+349) 10 < 1593785469 238053 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSSZCZCSSSZN => looks Czech and Hungarian to me > 1593785492 7241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75091&oldid=75090 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+16) 10 < 1593785605 987665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: answering your question in full, yeah, I believe a representation like those would be canonical. We can even use multi-letter constructors, I forgot one can match many characters at once < 1593785749 822832 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Cons␣S␣S␣Z␣Cons␣Z␣Nil␣ for the prefix version, ending each name in a space. Though this is not the deal of course, but it’s neat we can be faithful to the details of the original haskell-like naming of constructors > 1593785756 703288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Assemblyfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75092&oldid=75091 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+2213) 10 > 1593785774 820443 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-ASM:814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75093&oldid=75070 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+134) 10 < 1593785779 84877 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like these space brackets ␣␣␣ < 1593785790 921416 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593785810 546092 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used them sometimes long time ago when I wrote programs by hand < 1593785832 51076 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t remember where I learned about them < 1593785866 350824 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, I think. Well, as long as you can build & consume them from one side only, you only need one stack to hold them (and if you can't, you can probably put them across two stacks, like a tape, if you're prepared to juggle them a bit) < 1593785874 483939 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: hi how are your languages doing? < 1593785893 257154 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an emulator < 1593785897 139267 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this UM32 thingy < 1593785923 592123 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works, and it's moderately obfuscated < 1593785932 847794 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best settings for some reason break the program so I'm checking it < 1593785948 964267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah maybe two stacks would be enough, didn’t thought about that. One is definitely not, as we can’t add from another end. Hmm how about a deque-rewriting language where you can match on both ends? < 1593786027 721012 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593786059 672945 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1593786111 192459 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that would need a revamp of the Haskell impl as it currently uses lists < 1593786129 878216 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be not a minimal language anymore < 1593786550 308536 :RiriSec!~igor@217.97.35.43.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1593786563 255554 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye > 1593786651 495744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75094&oldid=75087 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* Elements */ > 1593786714 190406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75095&oldid=74874 5* 03A 5* (+186) 10 > 1593786824 605603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75096&oldid=75095 5* 03A 5* (+289) 10/* Reversible branching */ < 1593786875 649266 :RiriSec!~igor@217.97.35.43.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.3 > 1593786892 225431 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75097&oldid=75096 5* 03A 5* (+177) 10/* Definitions */ > 1593787020 692760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75098&oldid=75097 5* 03A 5* (+93) 10/* Branching */ > 1593787124 736421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75099&oldid=75098 5* 03A 5* (+105) 10/* Instruction list */ < 1593787172 703939 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It is a bit difficult to simulate matching either end of a deque, when you simulate the deque with two stacks. Each stack needs to be a full copy and, when you rewrite one of them, you have to make the same change to the other (but since it's upside-down, a fair bit of work is involved) > 1593787483 124489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75100&oldid=75099 5* 03A 5* (+132) 10/* Instruction list */ > 1593787595 535633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DIVCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75101&oldid=75100 5* 03A 5* (+38) 10/* Unofficial extension */ < 1593788343 87657 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593788615 989623 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah, both ends at the same time is tricky. Maybe one could first shuffle all content to the left half-stack, then shuffle the matched amount of character back, and if there’s no match on either end, it should be genuine < 1593788630 223545 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/character/characters < 1593788699 954576 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait there is no “match any character and then place it here”, that’s a minor difficulty too < 1593790455 395357 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1593791341 602975 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593791369 508782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75102&oldid=75094 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+346) 10/* Each tick */ < 1593791424 314351 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593791548 722612 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593791849 69105 :cpressey!~cpressey@88.144.69.222 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1 < 1593791952 415124 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:ed5d:d274:ecba:cf73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593792152 330418 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:f06f:5d5d:5be5:b8ba QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1593793446 536453 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1593794312 845612 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esoteric algorithm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75103&oldid=64510 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+59) 10/* Potential Use */ cat+link > 1593794742 632834 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ChineseScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75104&oldid=38538 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+38) 10 > 1593794828 176911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unnamed14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75105&oldid=44807 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10 < 1593794901 349718 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593795615 500077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75106&oldid=73669 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+61) 10/* Cat program for 1 char */ > 1593795661 326460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75107&oldid=75106 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Cat program for 1 char */ explain > 1593795923 710066 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deviating Percolator14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75108&oldid=42064 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Interpreters */ clearly made in 2010; the year it was implemented is not the year it was created > 1593795947 240428 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75109&oldid=75102 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+722) 10/* Object movement */ > 1593796111 517562 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07ESOPUNK14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75110&oldid=70779 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10let pipe: String? = nil; cats.add() > 1593796165 17210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Sea14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75111&oldid=72528 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10another stub-wip > 1593796199 583359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Microscript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75112&oldid=71076 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+14) 10link to /* Brainf*** equivalence */ < 1593796207 224376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1593796850 612796 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75113&oldid=75069 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (+11) 10 > 1593796874 16661 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:DmilkaSTD14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75114&oldid=75113 5* 03DmilkaSTD 5* (-11) 10 < 1593797389 217115 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@172.242.0.73 PART :#esoteric < 1593797626 587241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I wrote an emulator / for this UM32 thingy" => nice < 1593798771 239168 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1593798822 181579 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" YouTube [...] always turn on autoplay" => disagreed, in my experience they turn on autoplay but it's easy to turn off and they only turn it back on once every six years or so, so that part isn't too annoying < 1593798835 621333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean they turn it on by default. < 1593798849 949609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do all my browsing in fresh browser sessions so I have to turn it off constantly. < 1593798885 37483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah. I browse youtube from the same few sessions all the time (as in, same one session at home until I reinstall the OS, one session at the work computer etc) < 1593798921 851763 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1593798936 533617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [...] how to play an individual video from a [youtube] playlist" => there was an easy interface for that in at least some previous version of youtube, let me check > 1593798949 303690 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75115&oldid=75081 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+197) 10I made me go on the tihng!! < 1593799028 16466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: can't find a very easy way now, the easiest I recommend is to load the video in the playlist then edit the url bar to remove the "list" GET parameter < 1593799050 40212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, or use youtube-dl, which can list playlists < 1593799053 741393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and metadata < 1593799367 826589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" [mozilla] "recommend extensions when you browse"" => how is that a bad thing? that means that they don't put those extensions as stuff suddenly appearing in your browser at a software update and annoying you by default until you disable it. they're showing restraint compared to how firefox usually works by only recommending stuff. < 1593799530 251554 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" this function that writes some strings to a FILE * argument. If you pass it stdout it works fine, but if you pass it stderr it writes and flushes a lot of small strings. / What's the way to get around that?" => < 1593799542 831749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : /last fine < 1593799545 53428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1593799620 777264 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1593799659 712803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can afford an extra syscall, then dup stderr, fdopen the dupe, setvbuf it to block-buffered, write into that FILE *, fflush and fclose at leisure. otherwise it's trickier and libc-dependent -- perl and python have easy ways to create an extra file descriptor without duping the underlying handle but libc doesn't. < 1593799991 532633 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are using a libc that has the open_memstream function (which is in POSIX and glibc) and can afford to keep all the data that the function writes in memory at once, you can use open_memstream. otherwise glibc has non-portable functions to create a FILE * with custom backend functions, so you can probably implement an equivalent of fdopen that doesn't require duping the fd using that. > 1593800011 178646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CubixThree14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=75116 5* 03CubixThree 5* (+235) 10I made it!!! :D < 1593800049 304375 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if none of these conditions apply, then I don't know any other solution to get a suitable FILE *, you'll have to make a version of your function with a different interface. < 1593800172 872736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" tinker with setbuf() to make stderr buffered," => setvbuf instead of the ancient setbuf please, but I don't recommend this, the problem is that something else may try to use your stderr, including another thread or a broken fatal error exit function that tries to write diagnostics to stderr and then _exits < 1593800214 555361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm fine with a different interface. < 1593800235 268851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I would prefer to have the core API not depend on stdio, so it's usable in more contexts. < 1593800415 744143 :Cubix!~quassel@154.16.202.21 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1593800561 505320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, int-e: mostly fmemopen is for reading, open_memstream is for writing. < 1593800768 863986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: perl and python let you just fdopen in such a way that it doesn't close the underlying fd when you close the fh. they work differently: perl uses refcounting and closes when you close the last fh, python lets you explicitly choose at open time, but for stderr this distinction is irrelevant. libc doesn't have such an interface for FILE*, but in gnu libc you can implement one from the general < 1593800774 947606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom FILE creation functions. libstdc++ is similar: no builtin, but you can create a custom outputstream. in both cases, the library handles the buffering, and you effectively implement the write function, not the fwrite function. < 1593801112 723378 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" It's just this does things like indenting by printing a bunch of spaces in a loop, and it's not great to have each one be a system call." => but the libc has printf("%.*s%s\n", (int)indent_count, "", line); for that, and that will not flush until the end < 1593801146 997508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, int-e mentioned that and I'm using it now. < 1593801174 854032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m worried that set-theoretic representation of partitions needs to explicitly forbid empty sets in them. Am I too far gone? < 1593801276 944053 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically it's printf("%.s%s\n", (int)(unsigned)(indent_count < 0 ? 0 : indent_count), "", line); so that if you try to indent by more than two gigacolumns you get incorrect indentation instead of undefined behavior, but details. < 1593801358 938393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry, make that just printf("%.s%s\n", (int)(unsigned)indent_count, "", line); < 1593801637 665694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, it's silly for an API to use malloc if it doesn't need to." => this is for printing a --help machine. it's not a problem to use malloc for that, as long as you give a compilation option to just omit that entire feature < 1593801920 127252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might be using it on a platform without malloc. > 1593802004 286748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07STOD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75117&oldid=51984 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+138) 10cats > 1593802097 557748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Glutton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75118&oldid=73148 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+27) 10cat /* Processed Ingredients */ > 1593802285 247366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75119&oldid=36339 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+28) 10/* External resources */ cats < 1593802339 628523 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used open_memstream, and there is also the SQLite functions like sqlite3_str_new which don't use the file interface but it can be used for a similar purpose. I also implemented straccum and strfunish in PostScript which is similar and it does use a file interface, like open_memstream in C does. Also, another way if you still need to keep the file descriptor open in C might be to duplicate it (although the effect is not quite the < 1593802489 672563 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1593802507 465517 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1593803776 485548 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:a41a:cdf7:15f6:d1f3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593804843 844857 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1593804972 800182 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1593805231 584913 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Client Quit < 1593805700 392302 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593805758 392519 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593806411 27659 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1593806520 474196 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1593806583 506389 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1593806590 705778 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1593806926 966588 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1593807324 540518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MiniBitMove14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75120&oldid=51866 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+430) 10 > 1593807350 885902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MiniBitMove14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75121&oldid=75120 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+51) 10header /* Commands */ < 1593807461 423989 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1593807584 853543 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Not The Main Worb/ntmw.py14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75122&oldid=53652 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+58) 10 > 1593807616 908170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Not The Main Worb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75123&oldid=53648 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10link > 1593807822 647817 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Noit o' mnain worb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75124&oldid=34953 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+54) 10unsigned < 1593808525 444751 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1593809299 700564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dirst14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75125&oldid=40971 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10/* External resources */ see also > 1593809325 596125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75126&oldid=70683 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+27) 10/* External resources */ see also > 1593809353 869608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75127&oldid=75126 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10/* External resources */ cat > 1593809400 875186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unary Filesystem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75128&oldid=75107 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+65) 10/* Cat program for 1 char */ cat > 1593809423 269901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Folders14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75129&oldid=75127 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* See also */ uf > 1593809436 653905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dirst14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75130&oldid=75125 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* See also */ uf < 1593810578 771379 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1593812379 28423 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1593812399 885995 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1593814135 461377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Feet2picture 5* 10New user account < 1593814388 339690 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the algorithm for cangjie rendering? > 1593814518 693624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75131&oldid=75115 5* 03Feet2picture 5* (+273) 10/* Introductions */ < 1593815378 40598 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1593815434 151059 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1593815457 464837 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1593816205 741442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75132&oldid=74548 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-182) 10Separate basic and advanced programs < 1593816985 953912 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.213 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1593817069 949934 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1593817140 486105 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1593817380 609888 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593818108 708457 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:a41a:cdf7:15f6:d1f3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1593818341 456050 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1593818561 260864 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1593820017 189063 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 > 1593820305 384144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75133&oldid=75132 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Implementations */