< 1592698582 971141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello bye < 1592698584 497279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1592698659 405072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART #esoteric :"FAKE CHICKEN" < 1592698659 405147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1592698698 579945 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592699874 400984 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of SAT solvers < 1592699880 702388 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAT solver on top of regex matcher https://yurichev.com/news/20200621_regex_SAT/ < 1592700257 574010 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592700264 359866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BWTFN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74147&oldid=64508 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+44) 10/* Print something 1000 times */ > 1592700288 788321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BWTFN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74148&oldid=74147 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-4) 10Fix headers < 1592701675 941951 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592701737 971701 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592701744 245395 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592701765 874153 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592703998 806069 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592709848 646956 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74149&oldid=74144 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+8) 10Fix interpreter error > 1592710472 902344 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Chibill 5* 10New user account > 1592710648 597802 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74150&oldid=74117 5* 03Chibill 5* (+181) 10 > 1592710674 671015 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74151&oldid=74150 5* 03Chibill 5* (+1) 10 > 1592710975 484615 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74152&oldid=74149 5* 03Chibill 5* (+423) 10Add my GORBITSA compiler to the list of implementations. < 1592711031 485628 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1592711041 115710 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74153&oldid=74152 5* 03Chibill 5* (+14) 10Fix link to it. < 1592711152 889400 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1592711408 725177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arcorann14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74154 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+38) 10Created page with "== Subpage index== *[[/TPK Algorithm]]" < 1592713821 234965 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a copy of the envelope for the IBM flowchart template? < 1592713886 882872 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592714851 967561 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592715782 52450 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: me? < 1592715847 446074 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyone, really. < 1592716045 428725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1592716048 155976 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1592716079 329429 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1592716080 820953 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1592716084 553383 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ArthurStrong < 1592716089 78728 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :ArthurStrong ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1592716100 732033 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1592716102 127164 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. We don't like this. < 1592716167 669260 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? arseniiv < 1592716169 180643 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv is a blank slate who is afraid of alchemy, especially the kind involving chalk. < 1592716190 414542 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what to do to earn a personal entry for this bot? wondering... < 1592716197 283822 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1592716198 879995 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. We don't like this. < 1592716210 147224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1592718754 866333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592720380 999285 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1592722463 376741 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592722573 438851 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dec:154e:7520:8530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592723137 942539 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1592723139 813402 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Arcorann/TPK Algorithm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74155 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+1637) 10Created page with "The '''TPK algorithm''' is an algorithm used by Luis Trabb Pardo and Donald Knuth in the 1977 paper "The Early Development of Programming Languages" to demonstrate various fea..." > 1592723169 55356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07DOGO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74156&oldid=70760 5* 03Arcorann 5* (+35) 10/* External resources */ < 1592723231 908185 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592723306 852781 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1592723505 790116 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:dec:154e:7520:8530 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592727627 144818 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1592728276 257505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Horsey 5* 10New user account > 1592730447 289502 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Int**14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74157&oldid=74113 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+46) 10 > 1592731979 421395 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74158&oldid=74151 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+179) 10/* Introductions */ > 1592731994 305127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74159 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+1019) 10Bitshit is a programming language that can only work in bits. > 1592732057 854337 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74160&oldid=74159 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+105) 10 > 1592732111 834736 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74161&oldid=74160 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-98) 10 > 1592732137 891014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74162&oldid=74161 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+98) 10 > 1592732183 169831 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74163&oldid=74162 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+48) 10 > 1592732249 792460 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74164&oldid=74163 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+85) 10 > 1592732328 782362 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74165&oldid=74164 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-40) 10 > 1592732416 690393 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74166&oldid=74165 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-69) 10 > 1592732455 141141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74167&oldid=74166 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-113) 10 > 1592732540 724387 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74168&oldid=74167 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (+76) 10 > 1592732564 496122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74169&oldid=74168 5* 03Georgelam6 5* (-4) 10 > 1592733043 877730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74170&oldid=74158 5* 03Horsey 5* (+44) 10 > 1592733078 252554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74171&oldid=74153 5* 03Horsey 5* (+1582) 10/* Programs */ > 1592733111 211264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74172&oldid=74171 5* 03Horsey 5* (+9) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592733320 801054 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1592733954 989738 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592734093 372960 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592734226 517348 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! I had a question. If I, for example, wanted to add features to my language that i created and submitted a couple days ago, would it be better to just edit the existing page, make a 2.0 version of the language or just not do anything for now? < 1592734310 21852 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1592735250 602491 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74173&oldid=74081 5* 03Dion 5* (+27) 10 < 1592735972 934110 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit it. < 1592736109 671894 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even _if_ you made a 2.0 version, why would you not put that on the same page? < 1592736328 139414 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, thx! < 1592736482 224733 :Dion!6dfc57d6@109.252.87.214 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1592738905 828416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74174&oldid=74172 5* 03Horsey 5* (+17) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592739036 427189 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592739193 957999 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592739208 978909 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1592740304 691291 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74175&oldid=74174 5* 03Horsey 5* (+21) 10/* Snake (By Horsey) */ < 1592741213 487573 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592741808 988215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592742156 629599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's what I get for not reading the whole scrollback before commenting yeah, I do that all the time too => I’ve read this part only now even > 1592744108 57192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74176&oldid=74169 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+250) 10wikify > 1592744120 210317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitshit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74177&oldid=74176 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ fix cat > 1592744777 989943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Con-Text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74178&oldid=12135 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+207) 10/* Implementation */ cats + tc > 1592744786 589478 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Con-Text14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74179&oldid=74178 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1592745677 494993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wumpus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74180&oldid=54081 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10 < 1592745740 856321 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1592746845 926927 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592747158 673768 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask cpressey in Tandem, should `lα → α` be considered changing stack `l`? I’d use a simple diff to determine if R & S = 0 and if R | S should raise an error when in deterministic mode, if `lα → α` and `lα… → α…` are identities, otherwise I’d need to collect changes when applying R*, to know all `l` for which there were changes, even if their final values ended up unchanged < 1592747158 673828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. > 1592747658 921825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74181&oldid=67745 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10/* Computational Properties */ > 1592747796 588924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07An arch is simply a curve.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74182&oldid=68240 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Specification */ < 1592748274 922608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey “and M(R) is the set of objects matched by the pattern at some given point in the rewrite process” => ah, this part seems to indicate that `lα → α` is not 1 < 1592748274 922680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1592748733 941350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1592749229 124490 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumpmin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74183 5* 03Emerald 5* (+1145) 10/* Extra minimization */ new section < 1592749759 2512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592750755 375921 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74184&oldid=74175 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-59) 10Large bugfix of interpreter < 1592751004 479765 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1592751042 112280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74185&oldid=74184 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+0) 10Update node.js interpreter < 1592753814 459262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais532 < 1592753818 26979 :ais532!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 > 1592753942 363553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Perl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74186&oldid=68956 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10/* In shell scripts */ cat > 1592754183 599733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NotBrainFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74187&oldid=66056 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-16) 10unpipe < 1592754249 351662 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would English spellings be less messy if you are using Germanic rather than Latin alphabets? Latin alphabets are good for Latin writing, but maybe not so much in English? > 1592754333 450559 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74188&oldid=70042 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+88) 10/* Hello, World program */ > 1592754352 566583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74189&oldid=74188 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, World program */ > 1592754432 876584 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07No14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74190&oldid=74189 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+158) 10cats + deadlink /* External resources */ < 1592754434 266962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think any popular germanic language has an ortohgraphy that could reasonably get close to representing English's large inventory of vowel qualities > 1592754468 66134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=74191 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+168) 10Created page with "== What I do == I am a Ruby programmer I am planning on creating my own esolang == What im working on == Im working on a language that has a self explanatory syntax" < 1592754478 77848 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1592754525 554359 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean using runes, not the modern alphabets > 1592754532 921794 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74192&oldid=74191 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+3) 10/* What I do */ > 1592754676 591390 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74193&oldid=74192 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+18) 10 < 1592754694 91018 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the English runes are actually more than those of other Germanic languages > 1592754703 954074 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74194&oldid=74193 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-8) 10/* What I do */ > 1592754721 561726 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74195&oldid=74194 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-6) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755072 793551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74196&oldid=74195 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+2) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755093 238605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74197&oldid=74196 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+0) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755114 66005 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74198&oldid=74197 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+0) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755139 777738 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74199&oldid=74198 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+2) 10/* What I do */ > 1592755170 835280 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74200&oldid=74199 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-1) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755205 620883 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74201&oldid=74200 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-3) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592755227 11904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74202&oldid=74201 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-5) 10/* What I do */ > 1592755238 780338 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74203&oldid=74202 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-3) 10/* What im working on */ < 1592755756 365487 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric > 1592756502 645600 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GORBITSA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74204&oldid=74185 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (+9) 10Update < 1592756667 452472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the runes don't have more vowels either, I think < 1592756688 802451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as far as I know futhark runes < 1592756847 614725 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:55f2:17e9:76b6:59e0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592757410 868605 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592758359 334779 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:1979:8ce1:6647:fba7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592763537 467078 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1592764080 486759 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1592764487 908141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Jumpmin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74205&oldid=74183 5* 03Emerald 5* (+207) 10Edit < 1592765194 248161 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:c1b7:1427:df67:c03c JOIN :#esoteric < 1592765766 964592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592767052 349969 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592768182 81678 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IPA may be enough, and there were several other attempts to make an English-tailored phonetic alphabet for use in pre-school teaching and something like that, though all based on latin, enhanced with additional letters (almost just like in IPA, though maybe more kid-friendly and connected with the usual orthography). But the situation is bad as phonology is different in some details for various English dialects, even if we take only prestigious < 1592768182 227091 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones. Though these differences are not that big yet, but they definitely would cause arguing which phonetic spelling is better. There are even minor disputes what phonemes there are for any given language variant as real languages are a little bit more complex than a simple (and for many purposes, good) model phonology uses < 1592768399 309450 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the phonology is different in different dialects, but I thought runes already solved that problem, although maybe I am wrong < 1592768971 349065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: "based on latin" how much? which of these do you count as based on latin: Shavian, futhark, braille, Moon, American/German fingerspelling, British fingerspelling, semaphore flags, morse, Baudot code, Hollerith card code (or EBCDIC and MIX character code based on them), ASCII < 1592769010 93158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those, only Shavian is a pronunciation-based system, the rest are just alternate scripts for that are sometimes used to write English with the same spelling system < 1592769081 896206 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah I mainly considered phonetic scripts < 1592769157 367445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess I should ask about the major stenographic systems used for English: Pittman and Gregg, since those definitely try to be somewhat pronunciation-based, do you count as based on Latin? < 1592769169 616381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: phonology is not that different usually, phonemes are more abstract than the sounds we speak, but “phonetical” writing usually describes something on phonemic level rather than something more lower-level < 1592769183 406483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unfortunate naming < 1592769207 329739 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ok, but if you only consider phonetic scripts, then does Shavian and/or Deseret count as Latin-based? < 1592769264 578103 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah I didn’t want to say they are all based on latin, sorry :D but people seem to concentrate on latin-based when making a graphics which is easier to transition into from the current one < 1592769499 256160 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are several phonetic notations for English that are clearly based on latin: several variants based on IPA, a few that try to be ASCII transcriptions of IPA-like systems, a few based on diacritics over letters in Webster dictionary's style, and a few others like the notation in http://www.wyrdplay.org/AlanBeale/CAAPR-ref.html (strongly recommended) and the notation in < 1592769505 342966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict (not recommended) < 1592769685 901075 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1592769797 472119 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592769966 18641 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For writing the pronounciation, I also had another idea rather than IPA, which is not based on Latin or other alphabets but rather based on the position in the consonants and vowels grid. > 1592770326 289084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blablafuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74206&oldid=50847 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+694) 10/* Hello World */ < 1592770559 384869 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592770641 558153 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1592770761 235655 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamplighter_group > 1592770793 114892 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Consequential14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74207&oldid=68959 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10 < 1592770865 59326 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1592770923 589029 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1592771079 87983 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I need to compute something with all the 2^n conjugates of a number x ∈ Q[√a1][√a2]…[√an] to find its minimal polynomial over Q? < 1592771130 88715 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may not need to < 1592771173 799792 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can create a nxn matrix that represents the action of multiplication by x on a given basis, if you can find any basis for Q(x) < 1592771185 812093 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the characteristic polynomial of that matrix (M - Ix) will be the minpoly < 1592771343 249323 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1592771349 80966 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure if it is nxn anymore < 1592771372 733243 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's 2^n x 2^n i only did this with n=2 before < 1592771392 50410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: oh! This seems both a more right way to do things and both a more intellectually demanding one (reading about finding a basis for Q(x)). Hm did you mean Q[x]? All a1, …, an are positive and don’t have a square root in the corresponding fields Q, Q[√a1], …, Q[√a1]…[√a(n−1)] < 1592771446 737111 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's think about the n=3 case, say sqrt(2), sqrt(3), sqrt(5) < 1592771452 151396 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: hm if the size is exponential then surely a plain multiplication of (X − x), (X − one conjugate of x), … (X − the last conjugate of x) will be the same complexity? < 1592771455 424597 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it has size 2^3 = 8... < 1592771457 49023 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1592771512 880117 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that a = sqrt(2) + sqrt(3) + sqrt(5), will be a primitive element so {1,a,a^2,a^3,a^4,...,a^7} will be a basis < 1592771539 646151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem. I started thinking about this problem by reading a Python impl of constructible numbers here: https://github.com/leovt/constructible/blob/master/constructible.py#L323 (it follows another impl in Haskell but that one doesn’t concerns itself with hashes and minimal polys) < 1592771550 708183 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will not be too bad to produce the 2^n x 2^n matrix < 1592771580 288256 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but the min poly is not enough < 1592771599 137769 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need an approximation of the value or something, to uniquely determine which root of the minpoly you are referring to? < 1592771634 636988 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the hash? why? If 2^n elements have the same hash and n is a reasonable value which won’t blow one’s RAM off, I think it should be cool < 1592771673 652001 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the equality testing is covered without resorting to the hash; this one is easy) < 1592771679 120763 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right! < 1592771702 368698 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier I meant det(M - Ix) < 1592771779 915509 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, I read that as “the characteristic polynomial of M” and negated that typo :D < 1592771939 678693 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1592771939 823014 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1592771945 719198 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the constrible numbers is the field with all square roots added(?) < 1592771953 438760 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :connstructable < 1592771972 859591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1592772028 481629 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s a union of all Q[√…]…finite…[√…] < 1592772084 587741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a union in a sensible manner, I don’t know how that’s done precisely but for any two elements you can find a Q[√…]…finite…[√…] they both immerse in < 1592772176 704049 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's done by making it a subfield of the field of complex numbers < 1592772225 832909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I worry current implementations don’t try to compress the count of field extensions too eagerly for it to be usable in actual computations, but I haven’t read their code (neither Python, nor Haskell) enough < 1592772253 131120 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, that thing. Then the reals would be sufficient for the case used in geometry < 1592772267 843080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think GAP's implementation handles that well, I don't know about other implementations < 1592772295 441807 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just all real square roots < 1592772308 530372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: reals vs complexes doesn't matter much here on account that sqrt(-x) = i*sqrt(x), so the complex version is just the real version extended with i < 1592772330 697637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that's not enough proof < 1592772331 34486 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree < 1592772335 809494 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1592772393 946784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I agree something like that should be going there, C being algebraically closed and all that < 1592772589 157798 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like also how the origami constructible numbers includes cube roots < 1592772625 788857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is nice < 1592772637 717483 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can trisect angles < 1592772645 47150 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how this relates to cube roots < 1592772648 145551 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i heard you can < 1592772877 826371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the point is that you can write the square root of a complext number as sqrt(x + i*y) = sqrt((sqrt(x**2+y**2) + x)/2) + i*sqrt((sqrt(x**2+y**2+y)/2), which is not an equation I know by heart but I probably should, but I do know that it exists, < 1592772896 136777 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know it < 1592772908 828630 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know this < 1592772947 100208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and beacuse of that, if you want to do calculations on complex numbers with square roots and field ops, you can emulate them with square roots and field ops on real numbers, < 1592772994 585984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same as doing compass and ruler constructions, so you don't get more constructible numbers on complexes, or more square root field extensions if you allow complex square roots; < 1592773036 112905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this case contrasts to cube roots, where you definitely can't compute the cube root of a complex number using just real cube roots, real square roots, and field operations and i < 1592773036 113007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I think I nailed the algorithm to compute a minpoly < 1592773046 865408 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noice < 1592773048 712646 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do it? < 1592773097 897187 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you can't solve some cubic equations with real coeffs using only real cube roots, but you can solve them using complex square roots. < 1592773114 181451 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1592773146 151118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really why you can't construct angle trisections: you can't construct either kind of cube root with a compass, you can't even construct 2**(1/3) with a compass < 1592773175 559322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you would need a complex cube root for angle trisection. < 1592773240 748277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: the conjugation on each level of the Q[...]... tower has usual complex conjugation properties like (xy)′ = x′y′, (x + y)′ = x′ + y′, 0′ = 0, 1′ = 1 so we can conjugate polynomials coefficientwise and get polynomials for larger and larger products of monomials each for its own conjugate of the number < 1592773248 950225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that in the above formula, if x and y are real, all four square roots have nonnegative real numbers as the argument < 1592773258 854853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: does that make sense? < 1592773368 68074 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example we start with P0 ≡ X − x, then let’s denote more and more deep conjugations as ′, ″, ‴, …, then (X − x) (X − x′) is the same as (X − x) (X − x)′ = P0 P0′ =: P1, then we do P1 P1′ =: P2 and so on for each field extension right to the inner Q then we’re done < 1592773386 746123 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know how bad it is but seems pretty economical < 1592773402 861031 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i see < 1592773414 207290 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this would require lots of multiplications in the base field < 1592773429 452896 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work though < 1592773440 232918 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but there’s a little caveat, we need to skip “inessential extensions” which give the same P > 1592773463 967755 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74208&oldid=74203 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+57) 10/* What im working on */ < 1592773473 41433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: there's actually an algorithm to do computations on constructible numbers using nothing but fancy square root stuff, no fancy field theory tricks, but in general it's so slow that it's impractical, which is why you want an implementation like that in GAP (which actually handles a much larger subset of algebraic numbers than constructible numbers) < 1592773484 999122 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if Pi′ = Pi, then we set P(i+1) := Pi, not a square < 1592773541 890525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: do you mean something better than 2^n rational numbers for each Q[√a1]…[√an]? < 1592773583 375185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the former isn't much better than that (you can use a sparse vector), I don't know how the latter works < 1592773620 679927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look it up in the docs < 1592773628 258704 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the latter uses something about modules and things like Gröbner bases or what was it < 1592773654 911655 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can work in the ring Q[x,y,z]/(x^2-2,y^2-3,z^2-5) < 1592773669 420588 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :field < 1592773698 924652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's also an algorithm to compute with arbitrary algebraic complex numbers, but it's so difficult that I know of only one thing that implements it, and that thing is Mathematica and its implementation is effectively a black-box. I have no idea how that algorithm works. < 1592773724 142650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the GAP docs has a description, if you can't find it ping me and I'll look up a link < 1592773745 212336 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it's open source < 1592773756 107308 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: does that make sense? => I certainly remember finding a formula for sqrt(x + iy) but I don’t remember if that ended up as your one sorry < 1592773766 839225 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought that would be a good project to do, exact algebraic computations < 1592773777 368164 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a pair of approximation + minpoly would be OK < 1592773794 141699 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since an approximation is enough to let you compute a more accurate approximation < 1592773824 173510 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that one was reminiscent of half-sine and half-cosine formulas I think (for obvious reasons of course) but I think it would need some cooking to turn into this one < 1592773831 988148 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly sure how you + and * these elements < 1592773855 740068 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: the GAP docs has a description, if you can't find it ping me and I'll look up a link => thanks! Though I’m not pursuing this think that hard yet < 1592773857 364820 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, I'll look it up: https://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap18.html < 1592773859 675789 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be very cool to do this exact computation with algebraic numbers < 1592773910 654026 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the LLL algorithm would be fine < 1592773920 248866 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would just need a way to know how accurate an approximation is needed < 1592773925 186463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, it's not trivial that the algebraic numbers even form a field < 1592773933 840203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need minimal polynomials < 1592773947 25803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : never mind, I'll look it up: https://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap18.html => how does one represent those extensions via cyclotomic numbers? < 1592773974 376281 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may implement this < 1592773985 396024 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some cool uses of it I could do if i make this? < 1592773993 235697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though for just constructible numbers, it is trivial that they form a field, that's basically how they're defined < 1592774063 373553 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bunch of math stuf i want to implement actually < 1592774066 483636 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetric polys < 1592774084 542819 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there some cool uses of it I could do if i make this? => precisely checking if tiles of some constructible (or algebraic) tileset match and constructing pieces of tesselations this way < 1592774110 596690 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw into the constructible numbers once because of precisely this < 1592774153 47558 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I intend to use floating point and correct inaccuracies in some unknown manner but it should be possible as the construction is rigid < 1592774203 819764 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1592774210 611962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I might be wrong here, but I think cyclotomic numbers are closed to field ops and square root, so any constructible number is a cyclotomic number. for representing a specific field extension, I don't know, you probably want a finite basis (a set of cyclotomics that generate your field), except this time you represent those numbers as cyclotomics < 1592774221 900170 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also CReal which was very cool < 1592774235 236259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do the field operations and square root on numbers represented as cyclotomics < 1592774251 843365 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every abelian extension is a subfield of a cyclotomic field I think < 1592774266 201529 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I implemented quaternionic logarithm once though I don’t think I know what branch that code selects; at least exponentiating it should give back the original number, modulo rounding errors < 1592774291 570349 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s a pity I hadn’t found formulas anywhere, they’re quite simple < 1592774316 778904 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result for a rotation quaternion is its axis-angle representation < 1592774385 501408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: that's easy, you can implement it based on complex logarithm, because any non-real quaternion generates (as a real vector space) a set isomorphic (as a field) to complex numbers, and you can just construct the isomorphism with complex numbers trivially and compute logarithm there < 1592774390 475901 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the possible values of the logarithm in that case would just have the same axis and the angle + 2 π Z, as is indeed logical < 1592774423 213296 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv, what would be an example of these algebraic tilings? < 1592774457 889764 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.ams.org/visualinsight/2013/09/01/algebraic-numbers/ < 1592774485 234664 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hm I didn’t thought about this that way but yeah I used that the vector quaternion squares to −1 < 1592774499 212206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice this means you split your argument to its real part p and imaginary part q, compute r the mangitude of q, compute u + i*v = log(p + i*r), then log(p + q) = u + q/r*v < 1592774563 865780 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: I mean, if there is a tiling which uses regular heptagons, as they aren’t constructible, so one will indeed need arbitrary algebraic numbers to represent tilings with tiles like that < 1592774579 265080 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1592774635 207105 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blogs.ams.org/visualinsight/2014/11/15/packing-regular-heptagons/ < 1592774739 603095 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: oh, so one can use only two kinds of tiles, that kite-like one added < 1592774744 111604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: but there's no such tiling, at least not in the Eucleadian plane. there is a hyperbolic tiling of course. < 1592774762 269447 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nice test, to construct a piece of this packing, for the framework < 1592774781 914358 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I mean not by only heptagons :D < 1592774826 359691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like tilings with many kinds of tiles, compared to regular ones, they are boring < 1592774845 439866 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1592774851 840639 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the regular ones are boring; I need to use commas the right way) < 1592774866 571291 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll go to, I think < 1592774947 366123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: well ok, at least there's no tiling with regular heptagons and other regular polygons either < 1592775019 158486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you just want something like a regular heptagon plus two tight packaging thingies on its side that complete it to a square, then the algebraic numbers in your heptagon don't actually cause any difficulties > 1592775073 794477 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AdCharity 5* 10New user account < 1592775138 324463 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: well ok, at least there's no tiling with regular heptagons and other regular polygons either => do you mean other than 3, 4 and 6-gon? > 1592775157 482916 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74209&oldid=74170 5* 03AdCharity 5* (+185) 10I added my name :P < 1592775169 407125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: no, any that uses at least one regular heptagon < 1592775181 292897 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and if you just want something like a regular heptagon plus two tight packaging thingies on its side that complete it to a square, then the algebraic numbers in your heptagon don't actually cause any difficulties => yeah that tiling is not good enough < 1592775190 435266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-158.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't even complete the surrounding of a vertex to 2 pi angle if there's a heptagon plus regular polygon angles < 1592775209 543803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah now I think I parsed that < 1592775258 618607 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good kind of tiling is something like these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voderberg_tiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammann%E2%80%93Beenker_tiling < 1592775302 652028 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1592775304 852062 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.210.76 QUIT :Quit: gone too far > 1592776325 885136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74210&oldid=74208 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-144) 10/* What im working on */ > 1592776352 17728 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Dominic Zdan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74211&oldid=74210 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (-5) 10/* What I do */ < 1592776785 146755 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:c1b7:1427:df67:c03c QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1592779571 623671 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07((?)?)?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=74212&oldid=61621 5* 03Dominic Zdan 5* (+1) 10/* Groups */ < 1592780050 348274 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-152-245-222.range86-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782220 800494 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782359 930540 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-6-58.79c806.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592782393 689848 :LKoen!~LKoen___@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1592782394 600676 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1592782399 813917 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1592782631 33350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1592783244 524213 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1592783439 395271 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-38-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1592783560 901823 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection