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05:23:16 <shachaf> `5 w
05:23:19 <HackEso> 1/1:4rn4//The 4RN4 has two false goals. \ nostril//Nostril is a common Québécois greeting. \ partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category. \ il//An il is a cohelix of pper wire. \ norm//norm is the most confusingly named function in C++
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10:28:08 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72389&oldid=71390 * TwilightSparkle * (+33) 
10:28:34 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72390&oldid=72389 * TwilightSparkle * (+5) /* Push 0 */
10:58:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:HydraLoop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72391 * TwilightSparkle * (+235) Created page with "== HydraLoop == HydraLoop? Does this has something to do with [[https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4487|HydraLoop]]? ~~~~"
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11:56:14 <esowiki> [[Talk:HydraLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72392&oldid=72391 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) fix link
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12:01:08 <esowiki> [[HydraLoop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72393&oldid=72346 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+20) total; cats on bottom
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13:12:30 <int-e> `? that
13:12:32 <HackEso> that? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:13:23 <int-e> `le/rn that/"That" is the less controversial twin of "this".
13:13:24 <HackEso> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
13:13:29 <int-e> `le/rn that//"That" is the less controversial twin of "this".
13:13:32 <HackEso> Learned 'that': "That" is the less controversial twin of "this".
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13:32:11 <esowiki> [[User talk:InfiniteDonuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72394&oldid=72192 * InfiniteDonuts * (+203) 
14:09:02 <esowiki> [[Bias]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72395&oldid=72388 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+644) /* Turing-completeness proof */
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15:09:07 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72396 * Orby * (+1435) Initial page
15:11:15 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72397&oldid=72396 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) 
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15:22:15 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72398&oldid=72397 * Orby * (+13) /* Commands */
15:23:19 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72399&oldid=72398 * Orby * (-72) /* Translation to Underload */
15:27:02 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72400&oldid=72399 * Orby * (+81) 
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15:38:34 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72401&oldid=72400 * Orby * (+119) /* Translation to Underload */
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19:08:59 <esowiki> [[Self-modifying Turing machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72402&oldid=70588 * Hakerh400 * (+0) /* Card structure */
19:17:03 <esowiki> [[HashHell]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72403&oldid=54363 * Voltage2007 * (+68) backticks
19:29:16 <esowiki> [[Clip/Examples]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72404&oldid=42092 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) link to Clip
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19:33:46 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72405&oldid=71755 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-784) 
19:33:57 <esowiki> [[Callable]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72406 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+965) Created page with "'''Callable''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]].  ==Syntax== Each line is function calls in the form of <code>F()</code>, <code>F(X)</code>, <code>F(X, Y)</cod..."
19:35:16 <esowiki> [[Brainflop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72407&oldid=72161 * ElectricWah * (+194) /* Example Programs */
19:36:52 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72408&oldid=72336 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Languages */
19:38:39 <esowiki> [[User:ElectricWah]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72409 * ElectricWah * (+40) Created page with "ima cool coder who sometimes does things"
19:45:00 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72410&oldid=72352 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) /* C */ + [[Callable]]
19:45:43 <esowiki> [[Callable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72411&oldid=72406 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) 
19:45:58 <esowiki> [[Callable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72412&oldid=72411 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) /* External resources */
19:51:28 <esowiki> [[Flatland]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72413&oldid=58853 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+6) /* Turing-completeness */ link
20:00:07 <esowiki> [[Procedure]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72414&oldid=72342 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) /* See also */
20:00:24 <esowiki> [[Pure]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72415&oldid=71526 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* See also */
20:00:32 <esowiki> [[Pure]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72416&oldid=72415 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) /* See Also */ cat
20:03:27 <esowiki> [[Musical notes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72417&oldid=41743 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* See Also */ cat
20:05:06 <esowiki> [[Bodyfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72418&oldid=46423 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+105) /* External Links */ cats
20:08:27 <esowiki> [[Pi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72419&oldid=63874 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+39) 
20:10:06 <esowiki> [[Template:PageWIP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72420 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+133) For when the page is WIP but the lang isn't
20:10:28 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/PageWIP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72421 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+11) Created page with "{{PageWIP}}"
20:10:36 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/PageWIP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72422&oldid=72421 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-11) Blanked the page
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20:25:52 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72423&oldid=72401 * Orby * (-233) 
20:28:28 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72424&oldid=72423 * Orby * (+34) /* Commands */
20:29:34 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72425&oldid=72424 * Orby * (-2) /* Translation to Underload */ Fixing bug
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20:37:35 <esowiki> [[Circles]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72426 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+429) Created page with "{{PageWIP}} '''Circles''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. It works by moving from circle to circle and performing operations on them.  ==Documentation== The..."
20:37:45 <esowiki> [[Circles]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72427&oldid=72426 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-12) 
20:39:34 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72428&oldid=72425 * Orby * (-32) /* Commands */
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20:40:46 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72429&oldid=72428 * Orby * (-16) /* Commands */
20:42:02 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72430&oldid=72429 * Orby * (-77) /* Translation to Underload */
20:42:46 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72431&oldid=72430 * Orby * (+9) /* Commands */
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20:59:36 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72432&oldid=72408 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+63) /* Languages */
21:00:03 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72433&oldid=72410 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) /* C */ + [[Circles]]
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21:10:49 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72434&oldid=72431 * Orby * (-140) 
21:11:09 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72435&oldid=72434 * Orby * (+1) /* Commands */
21:13:22 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72436&oldid=72435 * Orby * (-2) /* Commands */
21:14:16 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72437&oldid=72436 * Orby * (-4) /* Translation to Underload */
21:18:34 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72438&oldid=72437 * Orby * (+2) /* Translation to Underload */ Fixing bug
21:27:38 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72439&oldid=72438 * Orby * (+160) 
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21:37:16 <esowiki> [[User:Orby]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72440&oldid=72238 * Orby * (+232) 
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21:45:09 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72441&oldid=72439 * Ais523 * (+19) /* Translation from Underload */ here's your ('''e''') translation
21:48:36 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72442&oldid=72441 * Ais523 * (+376) your section headers were backwards; fix cats, mention that this is a TCness proof
21:50:06 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72443&oldid=72442 * Ais523 * (+64) /* Translation from Underload into Clementine */ italics
22:18:12 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72444&oldid=72443 * Orby * (+502) /* Commands */
22:20:55 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72445&oldid=72444 * Orby * (+145) 
22:21:28 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72446&oldid=72445 * Orby * (+2) 
22:23:44 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72447&oldid=72446 * Orby * (-34) /* Clementine as a stack based language */
22:24:07 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72448&oldid=72447 * Orby * (+6) /* Clementine as a stack based language */
22:24:49 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72449&oldid=72448 * Ais523 * (+22) Underload was actually predated in this respect by at least one non-esolang (!)
22:28:11 <esowiki> [[Clementine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72450&oldid=72449 * Orby * (+52) /* Clementine as a stack based language */
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22:59:19 <ais523> orbitaldecay: hmm, I'm not sure we've /proved/ Clementine TC yet
22:59:33 <ais523> because Underload programs allow arbitrary literals, and we need to prove that those can be constructed in Clementine
23:00:21 <ais523> specifically we need to show translations for (a) (~) (^) (:) (!) (*), once you have those you can create arbitrary literals via a'ing and *'ing them
23:00:41 <ais523> at the moment only a ~ ^ : ! * have translations, not the quoted version
23:00:44 <ais523> (you also need a translation for () but it just translates to ())
23:03:10 <ais523> hmm… are we sure that https://esolangs.org/wiki/Functional_deadfish is unusable for programming?
23:03:16 <ais523> it isn't obvious to me that it's sub-TC
23:03:46 <ais523> although, functions can't define other functions, which makes it more likely that it's a push-down automaton than anything else
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23:07:32 <esowiki> [[User talk:InfiniteDonuts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72451&oldid=72394 * ElectricWah * (+196) 
23:09:57 <esowiki> [[Functional deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72452&oldid=72384 * Ais523 * (+653) I am not convinced this is unusable for programming
23:12:45 <orbitaldecay> ais523: I was just thinking the same thing. But I suspect it's possible because we can cat arbitrary (e) and (k)
23:14:04 <ais523> yes, I believe what you have to do is to take the definitions of a, ~, ^ and friends in terms of () (e) (k) k
23:14:19 <ais523> then use the typical Underload constant construction tricks to join all the e's and k's together using Underload operations
23:15:24 <ais523> on an unrelated note, something that's been bothering me for years and I was just reminded of: what's the pun in "beta-Juliet"? it's from a series of languages which are named after car manufacturers
23:15:30 <ais523> but unlike the others, I don't get that one at all
23:15:38 <ais523> even if I try to pronounce it with an American accent
23:15:55 <ais523> oh, just got it, it isn't pronunciation at all
23:16:01 <ais523> it's "alfa-romeo" + 1
23:16:33 <ais523> not fair having one of the puns work on a different principle from the others :-(
23:17:09 <orbitaldecay> Yep yep, I'll probably write it up tonight
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23:19:26 <b_jonas> oh nice
23:21:04 <esowiki> [[Maentwrog]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72453&oldid=72376 * Ais523 * (+126) former dead link is no longer dead; fix hatnote; explain the history of this page
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23:29:52 <orbitaldecay> ais523: isn't it trivial to convert X to (X)? Just follow each clementine command in X with a*
23:31:49 <orbitaldecay> Or rather, follow () (k) and (e) with a* and replace k with (k)*
23:32:54 <ais523> I think there's a boundary problem
23:32:59 <ais523> maybe you just need to put an extra () at the start though
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23:34:26 <orbitaldecay> Yeah, that's right
23:35:13 <orbitaldecay> I finally got into underload minimization :)
23:37:13 <orbitaldecay> Now I want to reduce it to three commands. I saw M^ but the term rewriting semantics are a nightmare.
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23:38:35 <ais523> orbitaldecay: right, it's an "artificial"/"constructed" combinator that basically exists just to dump all the other combinators you need onto the stack so that you can combine them
23:38:54 <ais523> then ():^ is interesting in a different way, because it's TC but it isn't (as far as I know) a simple translation of Underload
23:40:40 <orbitaldecay> Yeah, ():^ is my favorite. I wanted to start moving away from quoting to "pure" concatenation
23:41:08 <orbitaldecay> Which was the motivation behind Clementine
23:41:38 <ais523> the "purest" version of Underload has 12 commands, I think: (a) (~) (^) (:) (!) (*) a ~ ^ : ! *
23:41:58 <ais523> although obviously five of the six unquoted commands are redundant because you only really need ^
23:42:02 <ais523> and can use it to unquote the others
23:42:51 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/7 was a language inspired by that line of thought, although it kind-of became a mess in some ways
23:43:53 <zzo38> warning: passing argument 1 of 'f != 0 ? &compare_left : &compare_right' discards 'const' qualifier from pointer target type       I didn't write "f != 0 ? &compare_left : &compare_right", although what I did write is equivalent to that.
23:44:01 <orbitaldecay> yes, clementine started out with a bunch of quoted operators and ^, which I paired down to () (e) (k) and ^, and then realized that replacing ^ with k makes the term rewriting semantics nicer
23:44:29 <orbitaldecay> 7 looks interesting
23:44:44 <orbitaldecay> I'm going to write up the translations for the quoted underload commands and then read up on 7
23:45:54 <ais523> I think one of the core goals of 7 turned out in retrospect to be a mistake (which was that you can write a literal containing any sequence of commands, not merely something equivalent; Underload doesn't have this property because you can't write a literal containing unmatched parentheses)
23:46:41 <zzo38> Another esolang with some relation to 7 and Underload is EsoPost, which uses marks on the stack
23:48:27 <orbitaldecay> Cool, I'll look at that too
23:52:37 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72454&oldid=72450 * Orby * (+498) /* Translation from Underload into Clementine */ Adding translations for Underload command literals
23:52:47 <orbitaldecay> ais523: do those look right to you?
23:55:49 <esowiki> [[Clementine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72455&oldid=72454 * Orby * (-102) /* Translation from Underload into Clementine */
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