< 1588809662 530068 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could someone please write the reverse of this message? < 1588809709 680453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: ask HackEso or j-bot, they do such services < 1588809721 193814 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke. < 1588809724 581998 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP < 1588809859 983809 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make up a new card game based on the esoteric computer programming and the other stuff? < 1588809914 922251 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1588809939 511450 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean like "make a turing complete card game" or "make a card game where all the cards are esolangs" or both? < 1588809951 52042 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: Snoitcurtsni raelcnu, desrever niarb mets. < 1588809973 357139 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pleh, I'm deppart ni na CRI yrotcaf! < 1588810044 629589 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1588810577 833640 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588810889 570455 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode, have you been reading XKCD? < 1588811030 932050 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:413b:b1c3:e6ad:1ef9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588811035 640460 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh. < 1588811222 370455 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a parody of the XKCD 327 hovertext. < 1588811317 836577 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:413b:b1c3:e6ad:1ef9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588811339 950944 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what I mean. I just mean that if you can try, then you can try to use TeXnicard so that we will have more testing with it, at least. < 1588811452 720185 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antebrationist: which is of course just a worse repeat of https://xkcd.com/10/ < 1588811522 749255 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, I am working on TeXnicard, and if we can make up any cards with it (whether new card games or existing ones), then the testing can be done and the features can be improved, etc. < 1588811536 341630 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play mahjong? < 1588811589 251276 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play dark mahjong, or Washizu mahjong, or any of those other variants? < 1588811612 680755 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. How does Texnicard work? < 1588811649 286365 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeXnicard is a program I wrote for managing and printing custom cards for card games such as Magic: the Gathering, or your own card games too. < 1588811661 966333 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588811667 548512 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Fossil repository at: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui < 1588811695 981576 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any questions, then please tell me so that I can write in the frequently ask questions section. > 1588811764 449095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[072001: An Esolang Odyssey14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71891&oldid=71888 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+178) 10/* Memory model */ < 1588811825 919709 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The software is not complete yet, but hopefully other people who are interested in it can help, too. Also, there is enough to do many things with it so far, anyways, and I documented all of its functions as much as I thought to do so; hopefully there isn't something missing in the documentation. < 1588811838 888072 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the documentation? > 1588811970 593999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dig14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71892&oldid=71890 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10 < 1588812079 79021 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select "files"; all of the file names with ".doc" on the end are documentation. < 1588812084 99142 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588812169 48299 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also look at the templates if you want to see examples of how it is working. Both of those templates are ones I am using. < 1588812214 436519 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example output from the "magic-html" template is at http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/zivstr/ and there also links to the card database file that was exported in this way. < 1588812337 275821 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you have Fossil on your computer, then you can clone the repository too, in case you want a local copy of the repository. This includes the wiki and tickets too.) < 1588812557 291046 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me if something is unclear or confusing or incomplete, in order that I can correct it. < 1588812589 822260 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588812703 305121 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know SQL and/or PostScript programming? < 1588812728 152042 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little SQL. < 1588812868 591537 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps to know SQL and PostScript programming to program templates for TeXnicard. < 1588812887 565961 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1588812889 266786 :Antebrationist!ca9a82f5@202-154-130-245.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588813509 492126 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1588813873 890328 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a token-oriented thue would be a neat idea. with numbers and strings as symbols, arithmetic, logical and comparison operators... < 1588813893 658626 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is my idea too. < 1588813983 435324 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :control flow would be interesting. given a formatted list of tokens representing a list of numbers, how would you sum an array. < 1588814058 351915 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd extract a number from the array, but you'd need a placeholder for that particular number... maybe the rule system could just detect a special token and say "this stands for any number" or something. < 1588814093 668027 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what I thought. < 1588814219 959916 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :: sum [ : sum [ ; ... : sum [ : + sum [ ; ... : sum [ ] : ; ... : sum [ ] : ; < 1588814271 967653 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is : : ; < 1588814304 319734 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:413b:b1c3:e6ad:1ef9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588814577 318556 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:413b:b1c3:e6ad:1ef9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588815189 235715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/sir-leopold/ < 1588815190 691824 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/sir-leopold/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale kmc < 1588815352 732675 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1588815402 901633 :zseri2!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: zseri2 < 1588815503 193781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1588815534 807854 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 kitty < 1588815566 451296 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rum Tum Tugger < 1588815571 980979 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cat < 1588815573 836180 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats are cool, but should be illegal. < 1588815612 792521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slbd pbflist//$d < 1588815618 668275 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist//echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf \ Sgeo \ quintopia \ ion \ b_jonas \ Cale < 1588815649 740903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, didn't mean to ping everyone < 1588815671 806694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, you pinged only the same people that I already pinged < 1588815747 628457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PART :#esoteric < 1588815756 300724 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:70c5:d8fe:469d:df09 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588815765 882764 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :byechaf? < 1588815788 64362 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1588815834 416591 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:ac34:eb2f:55e1:5feb JOIN :#esoteric < 1588815939 303912 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:74f6:547a:1039:2e65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588816059 357278 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:70c5:d8fe:469d:df09 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588816135 332073 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:ac34:eb2f:55e1:5feb QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588816249 341853 :tromp__!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:74f6:547a:1039:2e65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588816681 387736 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1588816694 835909 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588817431 855237 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588817575 410740 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71893&oldid=71798 5* 03D 5* (+131) 10 < 1588817583 866948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588817632 485776 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71894&oldid=71893 5* 03D 5* (+129) 10 < 1588817641 848898 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-34-111-127.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1588817870 412899 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71895&oldid=71894 5* 03D 5* (+99) 10 < 1588817935 847685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1588817957 501815 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71896&oldid=71895 5* 03D 5* (+156) 10 > 1588819125 311553 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71897&oldid=71896 5* 03D 5* (+654) 10 < 1588819187 825483 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:74f6:547a:1039:2e65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588819472 830360 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:74f6:547a:1039:2e65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588819773 189966 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588820817 909884 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588821420 472314 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71898&oldid=71746 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+789) 10reply to Orby < 1588821853 802859 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588822161 327759 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588822481 340055 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588825424 875980 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588825702 903320 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588825760 35495 :jlindsaw!~rkarolak@162-203-84-34.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588825892 830632 :jlindsaw!~rkarolak@162-203-84-34.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1588827248 385675 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that apparently BitBitJump was actually invented during the seventies. < 1588827332 46451 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating, do you have a source? < 1588827383 430494 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esoteric.codes/blog/don-woods (unfortunately it doesn't seem to have any anchors) < 1588827543 442101 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1588827546 217471 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1588827903 934531 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should this be mentioned in esolang wiki? < 1588828663 331269 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588828979 370600 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55c3:e274:2170:c474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588830898 282020 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588831703 353321 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588831890 461555 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1588832650 866920 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588832903 858832 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1588833157 882340 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1588833220 853162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71899 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+13154) 10brain dump, to be reviewed and edited later < 1588835052 331919 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588838171 133157 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 224858 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 290207 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 368455 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 405926 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 443397 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838171 481280 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838173 838461 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbquoxnigqhhniax QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838173 925186 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838174 142667 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838175 865988 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iszpkuvpwrnzlqms QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838175 976354 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838176 48544 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 532245 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kleblcnzezajlitm QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 569542 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdjvvfchmkasywvm QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 672603 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 718150 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 718197 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 811683 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 811731 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 811744 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 811756 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838177 811768 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 332310 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 332372 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 399852 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 499438 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 499519 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 622347 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 622442 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:85c8:e28f:24d2:a4af QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 622479 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 622506 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 830966 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 831056 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 831076 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838179 831092 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838180 55739 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838180 56504 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838180 56535 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838180 56559 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 175448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 232687 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 232781 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 310816 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 310897 :haavard!root@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 501877 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 501964 :diverger!~div@89.187.187.67 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 501987 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 502011 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-b04806-254.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 502031 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 599768 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 599868 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 599904 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 639372 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 746180 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 746268 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 746293 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 806556 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 806655 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838181 901433 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 740104 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 740156 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 812597 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 888211 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 888258 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 888267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838182 888274 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 66158 :catern!~catern@catern.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 66205 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 200678 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 200726 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 200738 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 200749 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 346361 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 346395 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 346403 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 346410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 515955 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 515992 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-exbgkgzwabkhhmzs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 516000 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 516006 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838183 619524 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838184 735599 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838184 735662 :trn!jhj@prone.ws QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588838184 735677 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1588839797 656887 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658175 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658187 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658194 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658270 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658280 :ineiros_!ineiros@kapsi.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658287 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658304 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658311 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658319 :Soni!~quassel@unaffiliated/soniex2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658325 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658340 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jitcmpemkqzepcqv JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658346 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658352 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658359 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658380 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658388 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658395 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658402 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658417 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658433 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658440 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658461 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658468 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658475 :aloril_!~aloril@mobile-access-b04806-254.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658482 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:85c8:e28f:24d2:a4af JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658488 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658495 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658518 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658529 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658537 :haavard!root@haavard.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658543 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658559 :MDude!~MDude@74.5.130.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658565 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658578 :ornxka!~ornxka@unaffiliated/ornx JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658585 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658608 :shinh!~i@129.EC0234U.cyberhome.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658615 :shig!~davidb@inara.oztechninja.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658622 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658629 :stux!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658636 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658642 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658649 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kleblcnzezajlitm JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658655 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdjvvfchmkasywvm JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658662 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658678 :aji!~alex@unaffiliated/aji JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658686 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658705 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658712 :diverger!~div@89.187.187.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658719 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658726 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658732 :sparr!~sparr@pdpc/supporter/active/sparr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658752 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658759 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-exbgkgzwabkhhmzs JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658766 :kmc!~beehive@unaffiliated/kmcallister JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658773 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iszpkuvpwrnzlqms JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658779 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbquoxnigqhhniax JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658798 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658805 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658811 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658818 :gitlogger!~gitlogger@206.ip-51-91-102.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658824 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658842 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658849 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 658855 :jix!~jix@static.71.5.69.159.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696594 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696656 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696663 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696670 :trn!jhj@prone.ws JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696677 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-234-164-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696697 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696717 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uokwdxpbfutetegr JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696724 :^[_!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696730 :dog_star!sid310875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkmsprfnywrkykzt JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696750 :catern!~catern@catern.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696757 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696764 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696770 :vertrex!~vertrex@unaffiliated/vertrex JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696777 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696794 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696807 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1588839797 696814 :Banana51!~user@unaffiliated/banana51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588840323 250570 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588840369 890107 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588841295 810776 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1588841775 649354 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588841825 766229 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric > 1588842226 382946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71900&oldid=66687 5* 03D 5* (+73) 10/* External resources */ > 1588842266 363442 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07FizzBuzz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71901&oldid=71900 5* 03D 5* (+38) 10 < 1588843078 828259 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588843301 867853 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588843307 837560 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588843382 646508 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588844388 610844 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqlwmnxywvwyzahd QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588844390 666037 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rlwfunenxbrvafaa QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588844401 533701 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kdjvvfchmkasywvm QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588844401 612886 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kleblcnzezajlitm QUIT :Quit: killed < 1588844625 612730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1588844763 991046 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588844879 488418 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588845508 198340 :xavo[m]!undersco1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmnwvsqitgfmekff JOIN :#esoteric < 1588845597 36431 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588846008 56649 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588846127 483216 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1588846181 43153 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1588846925 42581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588847459 392783 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588848215 198664 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-evkbuvgkvbswpder JOIN :#esoteric < 1588848215 341057 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kbztvoldbhkyxhfb JOIN :#esoteric < 1588848215 411980 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lvgdahdubuldpibw JOIN :#esoteric > 1588849426 205654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71902&oldid=71899 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+3263) 10/* Further claims */ high level Python -> Python examples, with arbitrary re-encoding < 1588849497 457833 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1588849633 690285 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1588849728 91644 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm loitering to discuss simple-translation ideas with Orby, and whomever else is interested < 1588849966 888491 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! < 1588850016 530800 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am interested in it too < 1588850041 856467 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote a character-by-character zip file to python translator that reconstructs the zipped python source file functionality from the resulting generated (different) python code to test an idea about encoding. It makes me laugh, but I think there's an interesting point in there somewhere. < 1588850068 51042 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand < 1588850074 639435 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip -> python < 1588850108 542436 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it on any zip or specific ips? < 1588850111 19920 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zips* < 1588850162 168127 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please explain it more < 1588850172 762997 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I zip some python source code, and claim that is some kind of encoded source, then perform a simple-translation on the zip-file, symbol by symbol, into python, which will produce the equivalent result of the file I zipped < 1588850186 222783 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1588850278 843481 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Salpynx/Simple_translation_conjecture#Examples_using_a_high_level_language < 1588850280 209713 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually quite trivial, but I think it illustrates a point I was exploring that arbitrarily re-encoding language still enables it to be simple-translate to another (or itself) < 1588850309 173849 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get what you are saying but doesn't this include a prefix string as well as translating each character < 1588850325 709586 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that we need to differentiate between simple translation that does and doesn't include prefix,suffix strings < 1588850330 189628 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those can contain interpreters < 1588850335 606079 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1588850386 792108 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a suffix string. and the construction I was trying to justify, which should be able to work in an absolute worst case scenario, relies on just that suffix < 1588850395 30409 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588850418 311100 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being an interpreter (in my python example using the builtin `exec()`) < 1588850584 241183 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to form an argument that the empty-string is part of every alphabet set, so should be a valid symbol to translate. I get that it sounds like cheating, but I think it is reasonable to make a formal statement about alphabets being sets which contain the empty-string. I believe that is standard in set theory < 1588850591 425712 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the distinction isn't so important though, because it may be possible t ohack around it using techniques similar to polyglot programs < 1588850610 63573 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every symbol could map to PREFIX[symbol]POSTFIX < 1588850631 88825 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where PREFIX is something like "interpret the following string" and POSTFIXPREFIX is basically a comment < 1588850641 16798 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I think a similar trick can be done in Python without the suffix trick, but not in one line like I did :) < 1588850859 798907 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm trying to re-brand "just adding a suffix" as not a special cheating case, but as a valid symbol substitution for the empty-string or (End-Of-File) symbol that is part of every formal alphabet set. I need to see if anyone buys that spin < 1588850897 537937 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's important, I think we need a name for each version < 1588851195 814896 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on getting my ideas straight, that page on the wiki was my attempt at getting the core of them out there. Now I've done that I can finish reading Orby's modifications to the simple-translation page > 1588851234 831089 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MC14500B14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71903&oldid=71897 5* 03D 5* (+0) 10/* External Links */ < 1588851265 837658 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find a good source for the standard definition of a 'concatenative' programming language. Is Python considered 'concatenative'? < 1588851458 163602 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a dumb question, I know it's not. I'm really trying to figure out a term for something like Python which can be split into smaller sub-units that can stand alone as complete programs in their own right. I want to term that concatenative. < 1588851458 945581 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588851494 922333 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Fabrice Bellard now has a bigfloat library? Why didn't anyone tell me that? https://bellard.org/libbf/ < 1588852902 825460 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588853916 860033 :zseri!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588854270 838976 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588855188 804344 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588855243 414907 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588855599 420416 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588855661 396322 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588855707 615967 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588857087 703568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Picofuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71904&oldid=71833 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+835) 10/* More ideas in the Salpynx vein */ RBF -> PF -> Python < 1588857639 61746 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally I just missed salpynx < 1588859780 332917 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588859792 32019 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71905&oldid=71898 5* 03Orby 5* (+322) 10/* Picofuck */ < 1588859902 892005 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588860145 920249 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588860224 806698 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588860248 228899 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588860314 403072 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1588860736 309703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71906&oldid=71902 5* 03Orby 5* (+528) 10/* Concatenative semantics */ < 1588860768 826567 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1588861667 943351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71907&oldid=71906 5* 03Orby 5* (+1031) 10/* Method */ < 1588861763 842068 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588862569 204028 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71908&oldid=71907 5* 03Orby 5* (+1339) 10/* Method */ < 1588862721 630905 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588862941 415733 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588863728 902706 :aaaa!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588863730 66075 :aaaa!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca NICK :psdw < 1588863813 138516 :psdw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Client Quit < 1588863981 885569 :f51!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588863999 484221 :f51!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588864131 683905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71909&oldid=71273 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+155) 10 > 1588864142 571265 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71910&oldid=71909 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+8) 10 > 1588864157 750833 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71911&oldid=71910 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt]] from "wikitext" to "plain text" > 1588864157 772154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* 10PythonshellDebugwindow changed the content model of the page [[02User:PythonshellDebugwindow/Cmt10]] from "wikitext" to "plain text" > 1588864212 28278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71912&oldid=71740 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+12) 10/* Hello World */ > 1588864231 791365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71913&oldid=71912 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+2) 10/* Examples */ > 1588864310 407839 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71914&oldid=71887 5* 03CMinusMinus 5* (-1) 10 > 1588864589 266035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71915&oldid=71914 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10 < 1588864949 218432 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588864973 950564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Mathomania14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71916&oldid=18070 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+42) 10unsigned < 1588865029 886965 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-34-111-127.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588865359 804235 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.232.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588865373 355550 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kbztvoldbhkyxhfb QUIT :Quit: Idle for 30+ days > 1588865498 541430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71917&oldid=71915 5* 03CMinusMinus 5* (+605) 10 < 1588865556 814241 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.228.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588865609 888102 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: bye < 1588865895 7390 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric > 1588865977 482527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71918&oldid=71913 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+561) 10/* Builtins */ > 1588865979 48006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71919&oldid=71917 5* 03CMinusMinus 5* (+568) 10 > 1588866165 950867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebraic Programming Language14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71920 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+779) 10W I P > 1588866203 737737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71921&oldid=71919 5* 03CMinusMinus 5* (+356) 10/* JMP */ < 1588868380 797610 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1588868484 240968 :wib_jonas!b03f0c32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.12.50 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1588868718 658512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-50.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1588871782 485880 :zseri!~zseri@ip4d158302.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: zseri < 1588872037 841532 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1588873725 102144 :opticnerve!~opticnerv@host4-129-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: bye < 1588874105 815575 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1588874765 848596 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588875418 4378 :adu!~arobbins@c-73-129-154-238.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588875571 51221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1588875873 414734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588876446 52601 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588876761 210850 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1588877678 844016 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1588877882 6066 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1588878240 923883 :kevinalh!~kevinalh@179.6.193.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588880094 308389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1588880237 750660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebraic Programming Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71922&oldid=71920 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3253) 10finish > 1588880297 457439 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetratrary14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71923 5* 03Tetratrary 5* (+202) 10Start of my userpage. > 1588880673 991668 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71924&oldid=71836 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10/* Languages */ < 1588880747 896480 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1588880764 714004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebraic Programming Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71925&oldid=71922 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+290) 10/* Computational class */ cats > 1588880789 656636 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71926&oldid=71856 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+37) 10/* A */ < 1588880896 927219 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1588880963 380100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[076969 Assembler14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71927&oldid=71921 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-12) 10Esolang policy: When linking to a user page, the User: prefix should be visible on the link. > 1588881506 861506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Acrostic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71928 5* 03Mercerenies 5* (+7707) 10Acrostic: The crossword-based programming language > 1588881544 130112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71929&oldid=71926 5* 03Mercerenies 5* (+15) 10/* A */ > 1588881631 338156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Algebraic Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71930&oldid=71925 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+5) 10/* Builtins */ Vertical bar character needs to be escaped in order to be rendered properly in the wiki table > 1588881800 518256 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Mercerenies14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71931&oldid=52685 5* 03Mercerenies 5* (+186) 10 > 1588882026 309368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Acrostic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71932&oldid=71928 5* 03Mercerenies 5* (-1) 10/* Hello World */ < 1588882372 308236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588882673 878129 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Elevated Parser14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71933&oldid=71002 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1207) 10/* Syntax notation */ Two new features < 1588882925 868654 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1588883151 51492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Snack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71934&oldid=39535 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+25) 10typo + cat < 1588883173 443152 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-34-111-127.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PART :#esoteric > 1588883880 673853 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Box14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71935&oldid=62120 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-5) 10typo > 1588884634 77226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Streetcode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71936 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+586) 10Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Streetcode''' is a two-dimensional esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]]. Its syntax resembles a network of streets. ==The car== The car, which works like an..." < 1588885028 886989 :psdw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric > 1588885086 313103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71937&oldid=71908 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1373) 10/* Concatenative semantics */ sub-unit fragment translations are possible in some language pairs; allowing size optimisation < 1588885493 424994 :psdw!4c401021@bras-vprn-okvlon3013w-lp130-06-76-64-16-33.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1588885532 307896 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Salpynx/Simple translation conjecture14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71938&oldid=71937 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+362) 10/* Concatenative semantics */ > 1588885842 33160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Streetcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71939&oldid=71936 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+16) 10 < 1588886274 887215 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588886292 394378 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: we meet at last! < 1588886366 826299 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! I just saw we missed each other by 10mins earlier :) < 1588886378 302013 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, yeah it was unfortunate < 1588886396 495507 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so what do you think of the definition of simple translation as I have currently worded it? < 1588886426 385474 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't explicitly tie the semantics of A and B, but there is an implied semantic interpretation of B according to the translation table < 1588886449 55719 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a better definition for the purposes of minimization < 1588886533 269648 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems good to me, it's the way I have been thinking about the problem. < 1588886557 395837 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588886602 264637 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. I think it captures the essence of the idea without needing to worry about isomorphisms between machine models and other silly problems < 1588886617 820794 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1588886632 452751 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it also reduces some aspects of the problem to a string game < 1588886636 227245 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:6dd5:6ea0:189c:a9a9 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588886637 340412 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a moment of doubt when I thought there was some extra requirements on how the two translation tables had to be related to each other, but I think now the requirement is only that the tables need to exist independently? < 1588886656 520108 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "need to exist independently" < 1588886692 354320 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling that one way simple-translations can exist, i.e. one table can't be formed. < 1588886719 449555 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely, but "one way" simple translations also include things like trivial encodings < 1588886727 35975 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1588886730 504887 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. encoding brainfuck in binary and calling it a two command language < 1588886745 577079 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is 000, - is 001, etc. < 1588886780 420610 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e Fractran -> RBF should be possible because of TC, but RBF -> Fractran is not possible as a simple-translation because Fractran is not divisible into programmatic sub-units < 1588886821 201367 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there is some sort of equivalence that is required by simple translation that is more specific than computational class < 1588886835 923203 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Deadfish -> BF is a possible simple-translation, because BF is more powerful than Deadfish, but BF -> Deadfish is not possible since Deadfish lis sub-TC < 1588886880 546796 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "one way" simple translations are very interesting because I don't think they actually preserve anything useful < 1588886922 668724 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say "one table simple translations" < 1588886938 924622 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :because under the current definition A can be a ST of B, but B not an ST of A < 1588886943 41477 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think the strict requirement that a simple translation has to be bi-directional is too much, but it is certainly an interesting case. Examining why translations can't be bi-directional is also interesting < 1588886975 128657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh scroll. Did you define "simple"? < 1588887002 742415 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really :) < 1588887011 998696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect "effective" = "computable" there. < 1588887040 171328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps a restriction of that. < 1588887042 961059 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we don't have the strict requirement then PF -> RBF is just + = 000, > = 001, < = 010, ( = 011, ) = 100 < 1588887070 159434 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to define 0 and 1 in terms of rbf at all < 1588887181 975663 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fix any at most TC formalism and let the translation use that formalism. It could be as simple as a finite state transducer.) < 1588887187 409005 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I see your point, if a 2 way translation is possible, a one way translation is not very interesting or useful. < 1588887219 977077 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But usually the 1-way translations are easier to come up with. < 1588887250 891367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically you have translations A -> B and B -> A that do not compose to the identity. < 1588887268 841899 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the 1-way translations are very easy to come up with but I fear that they don't carry much meaning < 1588887284 674231 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, not identity, but "eta-equivalent" in some sense < 1588887294 781983 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :to borrow that term < 1588887325 767733 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, observationally equivalent in some sense? < 1588887334 105674 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs do the same thing < 1588887339 836494 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eta-reduction is something very specific in my mind) < 1588887351 177759 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I remembering the definition of eta equivalent correctly? < 1588887373 321518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x. M x --> A when x is not free in M < 1588887384 381669 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(too lazy to find the lambda, so \ is a lambda) < 1588887396 742570 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooph < 1588887402 7546 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that A is an M. < 1588887446 697916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I changed my mind about using A or M half-way through typing this... I should know better.) < 1588887456 333638 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on though, if your one way PF -> RBF translation is + = 000, > = 001, < = 010, ( = 011, ) = 100 , that's perfectly valid. Due to the nature of PF and RBF, I claim that a translation the other way is definitely possible, < 1588887456 951430 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what I mean is that if you convert A -> B using table (1) then B -> A using table (2) then the final program should be equivalent to the original program in terms of what it actually does < 1588887486 65688 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can find it, I'd love to see it :) < 1588887487 572610 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: usually when you have bijective translations it means the two languages are almost the same. < 1588887490 419865 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have just made the RBF -> PF translation harder to come up with, by transferring the complexity to that direction < 1588887533 418491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the while meaningful (in that you explain how exactly the languages correspond to each other), the translation will probably also be very boring. < 1588887546 103108 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: maybe? I don't know < 1588887576 268751 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: See the nanofuck and reversible bitfuck translations, the translation is actually very interesting < 1588887578 448629 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure you can construct pairs of languages that contradict these ideas... emphasis on "construct". < 1588887696 647994 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the whole motivation behind this "simple translation" idea, is to effectively define exactly what a minimization is. The source and destination languages are definitely almost the same < 1588887759 471205 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without requiring both tables, it is trivial to come up with two command minimizations of any language which is not very interesting < 1588887834 933308 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting because I am coming at this from a different angle, not related to minimisation, I was trying to find a way to translate code from one language to another using simply Godel numerings, so performing valid code translation without needing to pay any attention to semantics < 1588887898 827917 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think there are bigger applications here than just minimization < 1588887899 146664 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simple translation tables are a way to handle the semantic equivalence robustly to them perform a 'simple' operation to convert between two langauges < 1588887988 746552 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the fact that you are approaching this from a different angle is very good. I think you're seeing things I'm not. < 1588888051 416777 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea of a 1 way simple translation is valid, but it's not a creative choice thing, either a 2-way translation exists between a language pair, or a simple translation is only possible in one direction. If a 2-way translation is possible, and one direction is trivial, the other will potentially be complex. < 1588888099 264941 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial bf substitutions are trivial, but that's just how they are, the model captures the reality < 1588888148 57942 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. Did you see what I wrote on what ais523 called "generalized simple translations" on the page? < 1588888151 974244 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588888178 758049 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1588888188 472809 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Salpynx/Simple_translation_conjecture method section < 1588888352 274599 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I caught some of ais523's thought from the IRC logs, but I haven't checked back over all of them. I need to do that < 1588888378 83932 :adu!~arobbins@c-73-129-154-238.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1588888393 248486 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he (she? they?) had some excellent insights < 1588888462 656677 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-95-129.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588888484 603998 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea of the empty-string symbol started life as an EOF character, but I thought that was a bit to ASCII based, and assuming the existence of 'files' was not very general either. I thought the empty-string symbol was more general and had an established meaning when dealign with alphabets and symbols in a mathematical sense < 1588888546 170980 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think the empty-string symbol specifically needs to be a NOP and it doesn't really make sense to translate it into something with any semantic value < 1588888558 630780 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in theory you can insert it anywhere < 1588888605 169480 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the idea of α and ω as start and end markers is too out there < 1588888639 497471 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :because interpreters already implicitly deal with these concepts < 1588888654 234348 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to handle languages like unary and Lenguage and similar joke-like encoding langauges where I think the empty-string as end of source code has to be meaningful in any iterprerter. SIlly and extreme examples, but they are interesting for encoding in some sense < 1588888762 83198 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we treat the code string as an algebraic structure, then the empty-string has a very specific meaning that is not equivalent to eof I think < 1588888787 977070 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:68ec:ec92:4ea5:86f9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588888810 645519 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the LHS though I don't think you can read an empty-string between symbols, since there will be infinitely many of them between any two symbols, so reading will never terminate. I though to model it the interpreter is asking "Give me the next symbol", and the answer is a symbol from an alphabet set, and formally ε has to be a valid response to < 1588888811 144287 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that qn < 1588888902 669254 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. What does the interpreter do if it encounters that symbol mid stream, 2. How does that differ from EOF? The empty string is typically the identity, which can be inserted anywhere in theory < 1588889013 807403 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a monoid perspective, εa = aε = a < 1588889021 433177 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my argument goes that because for something like Unary, ε (or EOF / EOF like) is _required_ semantically, for RBF and Python it should at least be permissible as a symbol, because we are trying to generalise source encoding < 1588889072 140535 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that EOF is an explicit concept here that is worth modeling, I just don't think it's the identity / empty string < 1588889086 752423 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a distinct symbol in the language < 1588889113 361066 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I proposed using ω < 1588889130 553058 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I posed the question / response "What is the next symbol?" In an encoded source we read from, the empty string will _never_ be encountered mid stream... I feel like there is a way to formalise this better, but I'm not sure how < 1588889224 73106 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you're saying, but I don't think "empty-string" is necessarily the answer to "What is the next symbol?" at EOF < 1588889248 659113 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks the monoid structure < 1588889255 292872 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1588889294 896291 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ε can appear on the RHS as a monoid identity as you say, εa = aε = a , but on the LHS it looks like it's treated differently.. but it's still consistent. I think I need someone who knows more about monoids than me to back me up, or explain why that's fundamentally wrong :) < 1588889330 117106 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, I am not an expert on monoids either. What's your take int-e? You're a math guy. < 1588889404 239421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mathematically there's no depate at all here... a = aε is just as valid as aε = a. (equality is symmetric, among other things) < 1588889458 425236 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think it makes sense to say that EOF is equivalent to ε? < 1588889460 860929 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about ε as an end-of-string marker -- can that definintion coexist with εa = aε = a ? < 1588889483 935554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, when using equations for *rewriting* (e.g. to simplify expressions), you'll *orient* equations. This is typically indicated by an arrow. And then you want aε -> a, because a -> aε doesn't terminate. < 1588889494 807717 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.232.2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1588889504 397899 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no, that's not an end-of-string marker. < 1588889518 465995 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ε is just the unit of a monoid here. < 1588889546 702545 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Rebooting into a new kernel < 1588889549 361563 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it make sense at all to introduce specific symbols that denote the begining and end of a string from a monoid perspective? < 1588889563 468272 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are in a context where ε is an end-of-string marker, those equations make no sense. But people tend to use a different symbol then... for example, $. < 1588889629 565276 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had proposed using α and ω as symbols to denote the beginning and end of programs < 1588889722 865394 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some sense it seems like an EOF makes a lot of sense. Interpreters implicitly deal with this concept. < 1588889735 862632 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :either as null terminators or whatever < 1588889757 580600 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :εaε + εbε = εabε which sort of has implied ε as end of string markers. You only encounter it explicitly if you are reading LTR and reach end of string? < 1588889814 546947 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :but εaε + εbε = εabε = aεb too < 1588889853 156284 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεb for that matter < 1588889914 523681 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you are not taking offense to my objections, I just want us both to get to the heart of the matter < 1588889938 291341 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you always add and subtract ε from anywhere, so even if you don't write a final ε, I can just claim it is still there, and the end of your string? < 1588889974 656843 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1588889994 220386 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't think that it carries any meaning in that case. If ab = aεb then does the interpreter stop after a? if not, why does it stop when encountering ε in abε? < 1588890029 675964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ab = aεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεεb in a monoid. Why is that a problem? Nobody in their right mind would actually write the latter for the former. < 1588890059 391650 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I lack context... I don't have the patience to read through everything you wrote above. < 1588890062 640215 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no offense, I'm not 100% sure of my formulation, I think the EOF / empty-string question would be good to sort out. I thought ε was a neater and equivalent way of combining and generalising the meanings, but maybe they are distinct. I would like to understand (and learn) too < 1588890113 693200 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, glad about no offense, I can tell we're both excited. int-e I think the heart of the question is: does it make sense to use ε as eof, and if not, why not < 1588890371 801708 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1588890656 2338 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: (trying to summarise the important context) We are wanting to deal with 'program source code', made up of symbols from an alphabet (a set, a monoid?), there's possibly two things we're doing with them 1) coming up with "translations" from one alphabet to another, and 2) formulating abstract machines to interpret them symbol-by-symbol < 1588890743 937153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite-state_transducer may be relevant (as a very simple model of computation that in particular encompasses simple substitutions of strings by other strings) < 1588890748 262271 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it reasonable to have ε appear on the LHS of a translation to represent the end-of-string to the source translating to some non-empty string of symbols < 1588890878 842268 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588890902 593006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd only use ε to represent the empty string (unit of the monoid). That's how the formal language people generally do it... and the rewriting people... and the presentation theory people (who usually call it 1)... < 1588890956 738937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you can expand the empty string, ε -> ab, then it makes sense on a left-hand side of a rewrite rule. Otherwise it doesn't. < 1588890959 695490 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm wondering if I'm trying to shoe-horn something that makes sense for the 2) usage above into 1), which may not be appropriate. Also, we're talking about a specific "translation" concept that may be subtly different from the traditional "substitution" use in re-writing, (but maybe not...) < 1588890990 417215 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1588891047 447053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That rule would allow you to rewrite cd = cεd to cabd. The equality holds because of the monoid structure of the objects (most likely strings) that we're working with) < 1588891119 768995 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe that's your confusion? Separating the rewrite rules from the implicit equalities that we can use between rewriting steps? I'm not sure... I've added quite a bit of my own interpretation to the picture, so I may be quite far from what you want. < 1588891252 857468 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I understand "cd = cεd to cabd", and I think that breaks what I was trying to do with ε on the LHS, so I'll do some more reading (incl. Finite-state transducers) and see if I can formulate what I'm trying to do better. < 1588891465 698885 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be available to chat, but not watching IRC. Mention me if anything comes up. < 1588891499 937325 :adu!~arobbins@c-73-129-154-238.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1588891573 816004 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetratrary/Sandbox14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71940 5* 03Tetratrary 5* (+4639) 10Created page with "'''Alluvium''' is a programming language. There are only two data types in Alluvium: numbers and streams. Every number in Alluvium is a non-negative integer. The size of a n..." < 1588891575 657121 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orbitaldecay: I'm going to think on this more. I don't feel a beginning of source α is at all necessary , but that an ω is in at least some cases, although it would be better to avoid it when possible. < 1588891618 781411 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuring out why I think that is going to take me some more time :) < 1588891963 300261 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thanks for the Finite-state transducer link, that's a new concept for me and sounds very much like what we're trying to do. I'll read up on it before trying anything new. < 1588892356 886738 :Antebrationist!ca9a80d3@202-154-128-211.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric > 1588892427 481263 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetratrary14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71941&oldid=71923 5* 03Tetratrary 5* (+47) 10 > 1588892483 516126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Tetratrary/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71942&oldid=71940 5* 03Tetratrary 5* (-270) 10 < 1588892504 327087 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1588892733 136677 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588892801 881888 :zseri!~zseri@ytrizja.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1588892981 593553 :adu!~arobbins@c-73-129-154-238.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1588893049 921757 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: I think the eof marker makes a lot of sense but I agree that avoiding it implies something stronger than allowing it. I'll check out the finite-state transducer link as well. < 1588893118 489500 :orbitaldecay!~bob@forder.cc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is remarkably close to what we're talking about < 1588893237 415869 :Antebrationist!ca9a80d3@202-154-128-211.ras-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1588894019 598047 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection