< 1587859240 590330 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1587859250 100424 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finished my esolang at last. < 1587859356 14662 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody want to hear more? I also need to prove it's turing complete. < 1587859364 555836 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost certain that it is. < 1587859462 564410 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What esolang is that? < 1587859478 538755 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d tape. < 1587859505 351668 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a 2d program with two pointers. < 1587859561 827348 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 instructions. < 1587859587 117691 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :One pointer moves in cardinal directions if the other pointer is passing over a cardinal trigger. < 1587859621 269835 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. If you write the document, then we can read it. < 1587859634 931519 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1587859647 893039 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should i just post a couple of programs? < 1587859672 131631 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should post documentation, although you can post programs too if you want to do. < 1587859679 443904 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587859687 261062 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation is not finished yet. < 1587859695 594065 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an interpreter. < 1587859697 516073 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587859714 401465 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here is Hello, world! < 1587859725 640216 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :WcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcWcO!dlrow ,olleH < 1587859730 466214 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a quine: < 1587859736 434801 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1587859752 589503 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587859754 130149 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a CAT program: < 1587859755 244175 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SdcN < 1587859760 608197 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it is 8 bytes < 1587859769 883579 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite loop: < 1587859772 110231 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :SdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanEcO < 1587859782 823917 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry thats the truth machine < 1587859785 769582 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eight bytes? How is that? < 1587859790 356299 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two rows. < 1587859802 730291 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top row is SdcN, bottom row is 4 spaces. < 1587859816 103143 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here is the behemoth of all of my programs. < 1587859838 641463 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. < 1587859839 870131 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ungolfed addition program, taking inputs that sum to any number less than or equal to 9 < 1587859846 447554 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :---SdaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaV < 1587859851 693764 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :357 bytes. < 1587859878 113651 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is golfed a little. < 1587859978 315602 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1587860068 607015 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wouldn't know much yet, until I read the documentation, I think. < 1587860088 208619 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. Time to make some documentation. < 1587860113 869874 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, do you want to go to hackchat? It's easier to chat on than this. < 1587860143 898588 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not even know what is that, but I think this IRC is easily enough to chat on. < 1587860162 281714 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackchat is a minimalist chat application. < 1587860166 907034 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely secure. < 1587860265 128346 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't download any program, but if I can telnet to it, then I can try, I suppose. However, I think this IRC is better; it is where the discussions are for this and there is logs, which is also very useful, I think. < 1587860278 511422 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's online < 1587860280 962492 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website < 1587860296 105999 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hackchat supports full latex and code highlighting < 1587860304 941816 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll quickly set up a chatroom. < 1587860330 439197 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.chat/?esoteric < 1587860378 869736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use a web site for the chat. If it is a telnet then I can try < 1587860390 280286 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not a website? < 1587860429 259509 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, is not compatible with my computer, also WWW is rather hostile < 1587860441 156558 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1587860443 199469 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, I am not sure that I believe you about "full latex highlighting") < 1587860450 609172 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you running some weird linux thing? < 1587860459 826527 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or homebrew something < 1587860531 513514 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587860549 755240 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using Linux. Although, that isn't really relevant; IRC or telnet is better for interactive chat anyways, and the protocols are simpler you can use them without other software < 1587860597 73825 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you don't have a browser. < 1587860605 456548 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587860608 935836 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but not one compatible with hackchat < 1587860630 285536 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1587860631 790568 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For playing GURPS on the computer, since I am the only player at this time, I just use a direct connection, together with ts and tee for logging. It is simple and works well. < 1587860637 881299 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. < 1587860672 496912 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would also avoid using the web browser as much as possible; it is the worst program on the computer. The other programs are better designed.) < 1587860680 360083 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587860744 965071 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I didn't like the other IRC clients either, so I wrote my own; it isn't so difficult to write, really.) < 1587860755 716541 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed, < 1587860919 902757 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say IRC doesn't do that, NNTP doesn't do that, etc but that is not quite correct, because the protocol doesn't have to do those things; some things are independent from the protocol, and the user can use the client software they like, the server operator can set up and configure the server software they like. < 1587860955 135867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Just make an electron app *runs* ) < 1587860956 475573 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wrote my own NNTP client software too, actually. And my own NNTP server software.) < 1587860963 241448 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1587860965 880424 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice. < 1587860973 614711 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm really unhappy about Electron.) < 1587861038 924276 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Electron either. Although, if you document the protocol and then users can use whichever app they prefer, Electron or otherwise. < 1587861250 533004 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587861265 759873 :j-bot!~jbot@80.83.124.85 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587861331 662088 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing out the documentation. < 1587861774 398425 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587861852 694660 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587862344 608113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I am boycotting electrons. Positive charge only for me. < 1587862423 370072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I have two Electron programs on my computer, though one of them is usually not running. < 1587862461 920315 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you rewrite the program to not use Electron? < 1587862499 771117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can rewrite programs. < 1587862502 643787 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot of effort. < 1587862537 728010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can but it's a lot of effort. < 1587862551 349872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One program is signal-desktop, which some people like to use to communicate. < 1587862572 334337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could reimplement the protocol and I'm sure I'd end up with something better because this program is very buggy. < 1587862594 739280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, why does that need the DOM part? < 1587862613 133337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nodejs is perhaps only half as terrible as Electron) < 1587862627 465133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a chat program with a user interface. < 1587862639 673643 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1587862645 750063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean, why can't I just use the existing implementation? < 1587862652 562428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, brain fart. I should've been able to recognize "signal". < 1587862669 939856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could do that, though it would probably force me to use JavaScript and other nonsense. < 1587862702 784157 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah,I thought about generic signals and didn't see why it needed a GUI. < 1587862723 154876 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node.js isn't that bad; it is a way to write programs in JavaScript. But, there are other programming languages too; they shouldn't need JavaScript for everything, because there is many other one for different purposes; some others are better for the other purpose. < 1587862739 251104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1587862769 318586 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you could use WebAssembly too if you want to; if you have a recently enough version of Node.js then you can also write in WebAssembly. But, you shouldn't need Node.js at all if you prefer to write in C instead, I think. < 1587862892 639549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Customer: "I want to cook a pot of tea." Programmer: "Okay, let's start with this food factory over there..." ) < 1587862945 752674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar koak < 1587862947 253076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 260053Z 28013KT 10SM SCT200 BKN250 19/12 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP166 T01940117 < 1587862961 263537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is too hot for tea. < 1587862988 247545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was outside today! What an experience, being outdoors. The weather was nice. < 1587863031 760027 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is nice here too, and I was also outside today. But with this virus, I am not leaving the property where I live, although I will go in the back yard sometimes. < 1587863109 756403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a back yard. < 1587863158 230305 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what character is used on a traditional forth prompt? < 1587863162 762934 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587863164 92129 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using $ right now < 1587863229 681364 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop open gforth if you want an example. < 1587863255 484108 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was going to do that. Just wondering if anyone could answer it faster than it takes me to type apt install gforth && gforth < 1587863291 631572 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1587863293 934237 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prompt at all < 1587863351 591763 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The traditional Forth prompt is "ok" < 1587863362 274425 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, adding that too < 1587863379 128155 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed has the best prompt < 1587863531 192670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this happen: bash: ed: command not found < 1587863565 195221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm not editing files much these days ;) < 1587863750 648384 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for feedback on https://code.forder.cc/esolang/skiforth before I add it to the wiki. < 1587863759 228193 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any thoughts are much appreciated, bbl < 1587863920 46477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without looking... just put it on the wiki? It can be edited and improved there after all... < 1587863958 647292 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, will likely do tomorrow < 1587864690 29927 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587864975 985279 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587865121 836540 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587865138 500680 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back. < 1587865144 719263 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :With documentation. < 1587865243 917006 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i must go. < 1587865248 150633 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you later. < 1587865255 741945 :Train!ca9a8405@202-154-132-5.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587866223 148286 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to get a screen shot from the .mcm file using the command: zcat | tail -c+33 | rgbff 160 144 But I still am not sure why it is the wrong screenshot. (Trying different offsets doesn't seem to help; I tried that) < 1587866309 549981 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that here so that we can remember its working. < 1587867992 70675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( /join ##zzo38-notes ) < 1587868284 550996 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe you can tell what system the game is for by the command I used.) < 1587869386 149108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Are you into Gröbner bases? < 1587869486 412128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1587869536 745421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1306 < 1587869537 675371 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1306) int-e: Do you like this? It depends on the context. In the context of "Do you like _?", I hate it. < 1587869570 281918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but you seem like the sort of person who might be into them. < 1587869590 241030 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should have just looked at the logs before asking. < 1587869622 144262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a reasonable idea what they are, and none about the fine points (like choosing good monomial orders). < 1587869803 403878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also shouldn't be awake right now. < 1587869842 355611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I read your explanation from 2014 and it makes sense. < 1587871174 985566 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587871471 982362 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587871945 264087 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION snickers a bit
< 1587872001 592386 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hovhomidionhhtrh PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1587872598 829715 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make Fermat's Last Theorem in Magic: the Gathering? < 1587872796 913737 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if your opponent concedes a subgame, are you allowed to concede the subgame at the same time (to force the subgame to end in a draw)? > 1587873373 931504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71430&oldid=71339 5* 03Cortex 5* (+66) 10 < 1587873443 878413 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587873455 703113 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo? < 1587873500 682105 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I documented it. < 1587873513 501633 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: OK. < 1587873529 653941 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the documentation: < 1587873538 785010 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation for TrainCode < 1587873539 832977 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction pointer: < 1587873542 832962 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is any of ^V<>, change the direction of motion to the direction of the arrow. < 1587873544 833129 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :direction of motion to right. Otherwise, set the direction of motion to down. < 1587873546 832776 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :required direction. < 1587873655 841656 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you post it on esolang wiki instead? (I can interact with MediaWiki sites on my computer just fine, although you can't write on there if you do not have an account.) < 1587873674 786542 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't made an account yet. < 1587873695 471003 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking you guys for feedback, and also because I need help proving the turing completeness. < 1587873698 519288 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just post a text file, e.g. with sprunge, which is a simple paste bin < 1587873710 611328 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cryptopaste < 1587873774 966387 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The advantage of sprunge is that you can use it either with a web browser or with curl, both to send and to receive, and no account is needed. < 1587873793 854532 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it supports curl < 1587873835 729717 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/7UDn3W < 1587873854 809231 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it does < 1587873865 634780 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth did I not know this? < 1587874121 992726 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it look like good to me. It won't be Turing complete unless it has unlimited memory, either by an unlimited number of cells or being able to store numbers of an unlimited range in each cell. < 1587874136 702945 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've worked that much out. < 1587874145 364853 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it does, that isn't the only criteria for Turing completeness though) < 1587874151 1992 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587874162 260540 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn < 1587874189 14359 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t actually Turing complete at first, but I added "n" to make it Turing complete. < 1587874368 693939 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you know how I could golf my addition program? < 1587874451 807024 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it is: http://sprunge.us/CIxpGR < 1587874451 986965 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587874453 420994 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :From your examples, it look like the instruction grid is the same as the data grid, so maybe it is possible to be Turing complete by self-modifying code without the "n" command, although I am unsure of such a thing. I have not proven it either way. < 1587874482 787368 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you are correct. However, I don't think that it is possible for it to be Turing complete without "n". < 1587874523 522533 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If cells store numbers in an unlimited range, then possibly you can try to prove Turing completeness by a Minsky machine. < 1587874528 128346 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my reasoning: it has to carry out a different set of instructions based on input, and it can't conditionally branch without it, due to the fact that it doesn't have the mathematical manpower. < 1587874555 151692 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might change it to unlimited range instead of 1 byte. < 1587874587 831957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a limited grid and limited range of values in each cell, it won't be Turing complete. < 1587874592 67461 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587874607 921939 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a theoretical infinite case, it is Turing complete. < 1587874613 484871 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like brainfuck isn < 1587874621 809466 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t turing complete for a finite number of cells. < 1587874622 760955 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should change it to unlimited range, or else make the grid not wrap around (at least vertically, even if it does wrap around horizontally). < 1587874639 428877 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I go about I/O if I make it unlimited? < 1587874665 424104 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input can still read a number in the range 0 to 255, and output can use the low 8-bits of the number. < 1587874683 844755 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the least significant 8 bits, or the most significant? < 1587874711 684661 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The least significant 8 bits. < 1587874719 986553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587874723 595284 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so basically VALUE MOD 256 < 1587874728 245236 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587874741 636677 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okie, modifiying the interpreter now. < 1587874761 733660 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great to talk to experts. < 1587874826 192266 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about negative underflow? < 1587874911 416614 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, you can just use the low 8-bits, that is still defined for negative numbers, although the modulo operator in the programming language in use might not work with it; you can use "VALUE AND 255" if the programming language you use supports bitwise AND operator, then that would work. < 1587874947 139113 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I have -1, it wraps around to 255? < 1587875014 319502 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is treated as 255 for purpose of output (although still store it as -1, if you want Turing completeness by unlimited range of values in cells). < 1587875023 370332 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587875076 726617 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it need to be able to be negative for Turing completeness? < 1587875175 411002 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, although it doesn't make sense for -1 to wrap around to 255 but for 256 to stay 256. < 1587875206 456517 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what should I do? < 1587875259 126394 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An alternative is to keep cell values bounded (in which case wrapping around from 0 to 255 and vice versa probably makes sense) and to instead make the grid size unbounded vertically (or horizontally), instead of wrapping; that would also make it Turing-complete. < 1587875282 106496 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about that, but I just don't like the idea. < 1587875297 127817 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. > 1587875329 58664 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71431&oldid=70824 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (-117) 10 < 1587875473 518476 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What programming language is the implementation written in? < 1587875508 844194 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python < 1587875578 317659 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587875599 352941 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the capabilities of unlimited range numbers in Python, but hopefully you know what it is. < 1587875636 899455 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1587875711 345121 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587875758 850061 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't scroll. < 1587875768 400249 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm figured it out. < 1587876159 790479 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how should I set up underflow? < 1587876173 933559 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just say "it can't go under 0" < 1587876191 963967 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is another possibility, yes. < 1587876209 52087 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is tidy I guess. < 1587876228 906337 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a bit cheaty. < 1587876261 275791 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got I/O and addition worked out now. < 1587876421 982091 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your expert opinion? < 1587876512 963281 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not really an expert, even though I know some things about it, I do not know everything. < 1587876544 563177 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty good at this ngl. < 1587876867 428429 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1587877153 439322 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what do you think? You seem very experienced. < 1587877200 521443 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one thing, I am not sure what exactly you are asking about. I did read the document you posted, and it look like OK to me, and these other stuff you now wrote also look like OK to me. < 1587877233 629083 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if that is what you mean, then my answer is, I think it is good. < 1587877275 156962 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'll rephrase. So, how should I set up negative numbers? Should I say "no, you can't have negative numbers" or should I just say "negative numbers allowed", or should i overflow it? < 1587877426 259840 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the mathematically sensible thing to do is to allow them, and use the low 8-bits for output, just like with positive numbers (it is well-defined how to do this). < 1587877447 673313 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so just reuse modulo again. < 1587877520 749451 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although in many programming languages, the result of modulo has the sign of the left operand, rather than the right, but if you have bitwise operators, use AND 255 instead of MOD 256 and then you avoid that problem (and the result is the same for positive numbers). < 1587878048 706792 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth do you mean? I get the bit about the sign of the left operand rather than the right, but what do you mean by a bitwise operator? < 1587878102 300667 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think I know what you mean. < 1587878110 102142 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test it in Python now. < 1587878138 13321 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it works fine. < 1587878157 586829 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is python's modulo operator, and -1%256 is 255 < 1587878171 207474 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uploaded to compiler. < 1587878177 954630 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing complete! < 1587878335 687208 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then in Python the modulo operator does use the right sign, unlike C and dc, so it works. < 1587878348 551703 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1587878686 782965 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can be tested: If you write "d" and then "a" 256 times (or "b" 256 times) and then "c" and then "n", it should output the same byte as the input but always go down instead of right, even if you input a space. Then it will use unbounded cell values correctly in that case. < 1587878732 653727 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, testing it now < 1587878862 872986 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it works. < 1587878872 651021 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interpreter is free of bugs. < 1587878897 352767 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found a pseudo-quine: < 1587878898 490943 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1587878917 787956 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, that will work. < 1587878938 135495 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it won't terminate) < 1587878952 355990 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1587878970 70184 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any quines that terminate? (Other than the trivial case of the null program) < 1587879080 406200 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to think of it. < 1587879118 645690 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been able to find any terminating quines, but I know that there are several different classes of non-terminating types. < 1587879129 662905 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each class has an infinity of solutions. < 1587879371 425557 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, did you find a way to golf the addition program? 357 bytes is a lot! < 1587879640 783005 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, although right now I will think of the quine, and then perhaps tomorrow I might look at the addition program again < 1587879675 987404 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587880387 691477 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c ya < 1587880391 489870 :Train!ca9a826d@202-154-130-109.dsl-dynamic.connections.net.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587880517 748813 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587880532 410487 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1587880926 985701 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587881215 985461 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587884182 323117 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587884489 320037 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:10b8:381b:27e6:4398 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1587885292 4322 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587885594 979766 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587885852 409059 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587885950 659174 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587886364 485555 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think now I figured out how to make a quine with TrainCode. < 1587886383 1940 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My program is ten bytes long) > 1587888299 565156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71432&oldid=71431 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8) 10Two adjacent single quote characters must be escaped in order to be visible in the rendered HTML of the page > 1587888380 215008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07L14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71433&oldid=71432 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+8) 10ditto < 1587889827 347570 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587891498 870970 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1587892470 608205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stopwatch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71434&oldid=70876 5* 03GDavid 5* (+3) 10Step -> split > 1587892582 737583 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Stopwatch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71435&oldid=71406 5* 03GDavid 5* (+134) 10 < 1587892896 460473 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587892973 869127 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587897951 738256 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587899227 407890 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587900114 512993 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587900285 548598 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587900291 883277 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1587905837 744122 :rawr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Quit: They're putting dbus in the kernel. For fairness, I want a Java RMI registry in the linux kernel too. dont @ me < 1587906055 47881 :rawr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1587908498 846162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587909271 407538 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587910089 213764 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587910167 785998 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1587911165 755368 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are humans markov chains in disguise? < 1587911165 934308 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :kspalaiologos: mind is fuzzed right now here we have both > 1587911188 497226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=71436 5* 03Orby 5* (+1844) 10Creating Skiforth page > 1587911303 33889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71437&oldid=71319 5* 03Orby 5* (+49) 10 > 1587911402 683964 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Skiforth14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71438&oldid=71436 5* 03Orby 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */ Fixing small typo < 1587912514 540109 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an interesting way to do diffusion-limited aggregation in The Powder Toy? I know a simple one: spam fog when ambient heat is off, then place a nucleus somewhere or just wait. But that makes pretty boring images < 1587912546 195144 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh I probably should join #powder or something :D < 1587913799 467236 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ine-e: would you like to add a variation of BB_lambda to OEIS? < 1587913830 871186 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587914062 74821 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-070-039-139.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1587914715 503970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587915224 576476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: surprisingly, that did not highlight me ;) < 1587915242 465935 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, typo < 1587915292 86087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: Somewhat tempting, but I haven't found motivation for basically anything this week. So for now, no. < 1587915328 21521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though I do have an OEIS account) < 1587915334 232553 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a good way dto showcase your KO complexity < 1587915368 48625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it can wait. < 1587915458 754823 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS: i completed the 36 TODOs in BB.txt < 1587915495 524709 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still waiting for latest draft to be published < 1587916107 49631 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:d1e4:94fc:5e34:251a QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1587916703 388524 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587916908 495528 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:9960:35:c15e:8fc9:96ef:8ba2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587917136 450069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587917479 466511 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :c,E,c,a,EP < 1587917503 404634 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the quine for the TrainCode that I figured out earlier < 1587917530 28810 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I have not actually tried to execute this program on the computer, so it is untested) > 1587917915 848967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Post Dominos14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71439&oldid=65386 5* 03Orby 5* (+4) 10FIxing broken link > 1587918213 604959 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Semordnilap14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=71440&oldid=65381 5* 03Orby 5* (+4) 10Fixing more broken links < 1587918647 269846 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The comma and P have no meaning.) < 1587920342 231026 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :inetd/xinetd seems to have been forgotten by a lot of mainstream developers. putting your crap in the cloud should be as simple as throwing a binary up there along with a service interlayer that hooks the sockets up for you. < 1587920376 523976 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're back to CGI with Lambda, why not general TCP/UDP serves. < 1587920383 3522 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/serves/servers < 1587920452 707654 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use xinetd. < 1587920488 607022 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1587920575 459838 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, that is mainly because I implemented my own NNTP server and Gopher server and QOTD server. < 1587920604 640179 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. if you wanted to handle web requests, use CGI. < 1587920656 156636 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, CGI is useful for handing web requests, and xinetd is useful for handling such things as NNTP and so on. < 1587920699 683601 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently work for Amazon and I'm kind of shocked at the kinds of architecture people are promoting internally. it is _literally_ like CGI apps of the early 2000's. < 1587920709 327306 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using "modern infrastructure". < 1587920952 330929 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this quine program? < 1587922160 250276 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: so... simplicity by spawning a new process on every request? < 1587922180 82711 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1587922203 61346 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: If so, will they reinvent fastcgi next to save the fork/exec overhead? :) < 1587922211 671675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe preforking, preforking is cool too. < 1587922213 576292 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha, pretty much already have. < 1587922226 322622 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of disturbing. everything old is new again, but with accounting hooks attached. < 1587922243 36773 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do they call it though... < 1587922260 549341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. single shot server < 1587922269 898390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, maybe a bit cooler. < 1587922306 125254 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda is essentially fastcgi in that it can pass stuff between requests. < 1587922464 911449 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I expect someone to recommend me the bchs stack but un-un-unironically. < 1587922474 41451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Achievement of the day: I made the prompt of my Raspberry logins raspberry-colored. ) < 1587923775 544259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1587925405 405940 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1587926082 316890 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mydtsjenuapipayi JOIN :#esoteric < 1587926296 755729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1587927046 871551 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1587927178 864406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.231.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587927450 406283 :rain1!~debian@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587928203 956352 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started writing a terminal ide for funciton. i am planing on a debugger, too. any non-obvious feature suggestions? < 1587928794 954766 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I get it copy-pasting is obvious? Maybe some input/output/wire rearrangements? < 1587928799 836469 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1587928824 56103 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i didn't consider copy-pasting yet :D < 1587928848 436230 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by rearrangement? < 1587928855 241051 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://imgur.com/a/7rZNuzF < 1587928859 117456 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current state < 1587929058 805770 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : what do you mean by rearrangement? => a basic feature here would be simply moving (groups of) blocks to anywhere user wishes, with automatical rerouting of wires. I think there can be more to it, too, but I need to re-read Funciton page < 1587929107 765986 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: i did consider that. like, removing wires where you are moving a block to and automatically extending at the other end < 1587929124 21047 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure how to feel about crossing wires yet, though < 1587929166 278092 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, also how about find/replace? Allow replacing a, say, single block with a several blocks, if inputs and outputs are somehow made into correspondence < 1587929200 184738 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be tough ui-wise < 1587929312 254805 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though hm I think the natural thing would be to move in the opposite direction: refactoring out functions from block groups. That would still require mapping inputs/outputs but maybe this case would be somehow easier < 1587929464 915032 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: or how about inputting not just single blocks, but also frequently used block groups? Though are there any quickly identifiable ones… < 1587929501 349051 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now my imagination is quite bounded, my suggestions are all variations on the same theme I think :D < 1587929829 835674 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember the nop function is needed to make crossings < 1587930232 474862 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1587930349 872308 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587930390 189006 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton/Brainfuckiton ← I like a little ladder in there (in the giant BF◊ function) < 1587930488 941011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: oh! maybe there could be a simple compactification feature utilizing these ladders < 1587930550 195490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if no secret, what language are you going to use? < 1587930601 899899 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am using js, because i really like blessed-js < 1587930879 690122 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fluffiest tui library i have ever seen < 1587931116 783860 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I didn’t expect that from js < 1587931146 817800 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1587931154 876915 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1587931168 952952 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are into tuis, give it a shot < 1587931434 461437 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/embarklabs/neo-blessed < 1587932505 67957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used blessed too (although not much) < 1587932526 69647 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do with it < 1587933286 126642 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make a configuration TUI for mahjong rules, although since then I made up an entirely different thing which uses a plain text file and is far more flexible with the rules it is possible to define. < 1587933676 429079 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might also have other uses for blessed in future, although not right now; I am unsure.) < 1587934463 65687 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mydtsjenuapipayi QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1587934822 868920 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.14.143.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1587936608 699537 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1587937207 656766 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1587937230 822683 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1587937284 507443 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:55bf:d66b:9050:7bc4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587938434 833374 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1587938440 419670 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gudday. < 1587938653 338876 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: Hello, I figured out the quine. It is: c,E,c,a,EP < 1587938663 443946 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :P? < 1587938692 406000 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, P at the end. < 1587938709 324722 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :why P? is it because of its value? < 1587938722 390957 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it is one more than O. < 1587938736 343216 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, okay < 1587938776 406349 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It outputs: < 1587938777 934113 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :cEccaEFFGGHHIIJJKKLLMMNNO < 1587938838 619390 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it doesn't works. < 1587938848 675281 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1587938862 5676 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you the instruction log < 1587938904 18889 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly something I did not understand about it, or possibly just I made a mistake) < 1587938931 465608 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :EcaEPcDcaEPcDbbEPcDbcFPcDbcGPcDbcHPcDbcIPcDbcJPcDbcKPcDbcLPcDbcMPcDbcNPcDbcO < 1587938937 328811 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the debug log. < 1587939091 976653 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any single-line quines. < 1587939182 736956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587939515 749256 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand the debug log. What does it mean? < 1587939541 858957 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a list of the commands that the program cycled through. < 1587939578 291871 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't it include the initial "c" and the commas? < 1587939614 359443 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1587939630 591119 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh i didn't realise it needed commas < 1587939635 147054 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :c,E,c,a,EP outputs c,E,c,a,EP < 1587939640 545117 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain how you got it? < 1587939644 419112 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so it does work. < 1587939648 373644 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1587939654 433153 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you obtain the quine? < 1587939740 560002 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I thought of a few different ideas, and then I thought it would have to avoid modifying some commands, so I put interleaved commands that are meaningless. But, finally it will have to terminate, so at the end I put P instead of a comma, so that it changes to O and then it will stop. < 1587939762 972139 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right. < 1587939770 395089 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats really smart. < 1587939778 996027 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you say you don't have much experience in this? < 1587939821 927524 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have more experience in this than people who do not have experience in this. < 1587939835 998472 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these kind of things isn't everything I do in my life. < 1587939850 51841 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have quite a bit of experience, but this is my first fully finished esolang which is a proper turing tarpit. < 1587940150 272083 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make a brainfuck interpreter in it right now. < 1587940162 941850 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will properly prove it's turing complete. < 1587940237 2844 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think that is easily possible? < 1587940260 584407 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that will, although a way to convert a Minsky machine to TrainCode would also prove it Turing complete. < 1587940269 911496 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587940317 425025 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that also seems easier to me, although I don't actually know because I haven't actually tried, so I just guess.) < 1587940330 162580 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what a Minsky machine is. < 1587940355 797100 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the whole "there are x unbounded registers with two operations" < 1587940367 390920 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't understand the alternate state transition < 1587940435 369217 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if one register is zero, then it won't decrement and instead will make an alternate state transition. In TrainCode, you would use 32 instead of 0, and you would write "na" (with the "a" to the right of the "n") to produce the failing decrement, and do something else instead in that case. < 1587940482 236671 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to be anything specific, or can it just be literally anything < 1587940511 47287 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand your question. < 1587940528 403353 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of the failing decrement, what do I do? < 1587940568 847828 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A successful or failed decrement will jump to a different part of the code, causing different code to be executed. (This is what your "n" command does.) < 1587940603 323955 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yep < 1587941083 429235 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use 2 registers. Does that make it Turing complete? < 1587941165 352980 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587941172 646806 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two registers is sufficient for Turing completeness. < 1587941189 879881 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. I'll use the cells at 0,1 and 1,1 for the registers. < 1587941220 640388 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll also need some way to store the code, or I could just directly output it. < 1587941269 589120 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested using an external program which is capable of converting any Minsky machine (of two registers) into TrainCode; if it can do that, that is sufficient to prove Turing completeness. < 1587941319 174001 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... couldn't I just have an I/O for the code. < 1587941342 585613 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The converter can be written in whatever programming language you want) < 1587941351 939782 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... < 1587941372 743156 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just have an I/O for the code, although it is probably easier to convert it with a separate program. < 1587941384 906429 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1587941411 959929 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because stacked "n" commands allow for really easy elifs, I reckon I could do that. < 1587941491 82024 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does do that. < 1587941507 786581 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what are the operations? < 1587941514 960897 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need four operations...? < 1587941531 381073 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add to R1, subtract to R1 and the same for R2 < 1587941554 671742 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and flow control based on whether the decrement is successful or failed. < 1587941560 475629 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the subtraction operation fails, it jumps forward a certain amount? < 1587941567 636526 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you mean? < 1587941598 884454 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program tells it where to jump to. < 1587941612 907845 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1587941704 881250 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the program tell it where to jump to? < 1587941718 379921 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how else to explain right now < 1587941757 17626 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you explain it really simply, step by step, because I am reasonably new to esolanging. < 1587941876 255724 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an alternative is The Amnesiac From Minsk; level 1 and 2 are Turing complete. < 1587941959 631380 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I think Amnesiac From Minsk requires more than two registers to be Turing complete) < 1587941974 856202 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1587942051 863858 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what does a failed decrement do? < 1587942058 282576 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say we have both registers at 1 < 1587942079 692737 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we add one to the second one and decrement the second one twice. < 1587942083 223086 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? < 1587942096 753947 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a GOTO command, each decrement command in the program specifies what part of the program to execute next. < 1587942116 67598 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I follow. < 1587942128 609141 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how does a decrement say where to GOTO? < 1587942178 243262 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By specifying the address of the next instruction. < 1587942195 929983 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay... but it is just a decrement. < 1587942402 692 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it specify an address? < 1587942432 682908 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a parameter for the command. < 1587942432 736128 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The esolang wiki isn't very helpful either, and neither is wikipedia. < 1587942578 243776 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the decrement command actually takes a parameter < 1587942599 174207 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not just a decrement by 1 < 1587942652 710597 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just a decrement by 1; the parameter is where to jump to. < 1587942683 912495 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so a decrement command takes 1 parameter, and if that decrement command cannot be executed, it jumps to that address in the program memory. < 1587942732 394696 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587942739 533791 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587942776 675234 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a limit on how small the program can be to ensure turing completeness, or does it tend towards infinity? < 1587942782 315361 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1587942794 792665 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1587942806 995548 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, TrainCode should be able to implement a minsky machine.. < 1587942883 680284 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it has flow control with "n" < 1587942937 630717 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587943208 798868 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, I'll implement a Minsky engine which I can then use a python program to produce traincode that can be fed into the Minsky Engine. < 1587943265 987101 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmmmm < 1587943274 960043 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be hard. < 1587943294 791456 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just going to brainstorm on here, check me if I'm wrong. < 1587943325 868068 :orbitaldecay!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: NICK :orby < 1587943330 299771 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Line 2 of the code will be the Minsky instructions. < 1587943331 803130 :orby!~orbitalde@2604:2dc0:100:419:: NICK :orbitaldecay < 1587943410 613042 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm where is TrainCode? < 1587943447 552433 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the logs. < 1587943468 724302 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here's traincode: http://sprunge.us/7UDn3W < 1587943473 206201 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curl it < 1587943550 758213 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1587943572 476317 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1587943627 647982 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I think TrainCode does already have an infinite memory because of the size of the program. < 1587943640 581056 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, I need a better name for it. < 1587943649 519818 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :TrainCode is not a very good name. < 1587943664 924896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at this beautiful prompt color https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/fruit.png :P < 1587943696 58811 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font hurts, but it is a nice colour. < 1587943719 177412 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfect raspberry color < 1587943731 807648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font... well I've been using that same font for more than 20 years. < 1587943738 55720 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1587943742 170278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to change now. < 1587943746 373878 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the font hurts? It is the same font I use on my computer (but with different colours) < 1587943753 520144 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer gridded fonts personally. < 1587943761 980337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously it's not scaled up like that) < 1587943764 36718 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or MC enchantment table. < 1587943769 263456 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I prefer it than the other font < 1587943779 551289 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, back to esolanging. < 1587943807 942890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: basically as long as my eyes can take it I'll probably stick to this font... I know its quirks (e.g. how 0 and O or l and | look...) < 1587943809 91609 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is the better name for it. < 1587943823 475957 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: But that doesn't mean anybody else should feel good about it :) < 1587943825 887001 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking maybe something latin might sound nice. < 1587943886 865583 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veritas sounds nice. < 1587943890 960212 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's latin for Truth. < 1587943906 719582 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, the size of the program doesn't cause it to have infinite memory; it only allows the programmer to set the memory to an arbitrarily large finite size, which isn't quite the same thing. Allowing the values of cells to be of unlimited range does give it infinite memory though. < 1587943914 167693 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587943930 100981 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in the special case of the minsky machine, there is no difference. < 1587944102 263784 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm mirrors < 1587944114 142458 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mirrors? < 1587944158 538262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Train: I just saw \ and /. And I'm reminded of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trajedy even though that's very different. < 1587944218 390320 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I'd never even heard of Trajedy. < 1587944259 67052 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that's probably true of most of the languages on the wiki :) < 1587944270 96401 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, there's like 5000. < 1587944307 170766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trajedy actually sparked quite a bit of discussion here when it was new (involving myself as well) though so it stood out. < 1587944323 373709 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an interesting concept. < 1587944348 510952 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised it's turing complete. < 1587944383 118055 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can see how it is. < 1587944413 456610 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I call dibs on language name Veritas, and because this chat is logged, people can see this. < 1587944534 353134 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-48-139.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1587944587 879875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how terrible Traincode would become without the n.
< 1587944633 675776 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587944644 78053 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is the only thing that can make flow control < 1587944654 820430 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd have to do *everything* with self-modifying code) < 1587944658 774331 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1587944674 464444 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whioch isn't unheard of in esolangs < 1587944675 912810 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've already established that's impossible to do *everything* < 1587944680 445204 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :in TrainCode < 1587944709 794493 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :most problems are possible, but none are trivial without n, and there are some that are impossible < 1587944711 277761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the wraparound kills the idea of infinite state, unless you start with an infinite grid < 1587944725 712931 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite number of states in each cell < 1587944726 247183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, conceptually, I believe you could do < 1587944739 692090 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily make an infinite grid. < 1587944745 660652 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I chose a finite grid. < 1587944792 665138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you could do that without radically changing the nature of the language. People have done similar things with Brainfuck. < 1587944814 88520 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I made a brainfuck interpreter that had that. < 1587944816 556622 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1587944840 931017 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The original Brainfuck had 30k byte-sized cells... few clones adhered to that) < 1587944900 490223 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I know. < 1587944923 309166 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my interpreter I kept the byte-sized cells, but made it infinite. < 1587944935 357579 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was the original brainfuck turing-complete? < 1587944967 351652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Traincode is a kind of minimal Befunge which judging by https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge#Related_languages is a surprisingly small niche. < 1587944981 553628 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the original Brainfuck suffered from the limitation of having finite state. < 1587944993 122203 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587944995 873029 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx. < 1587945010 773357 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a turing-complete system must have infinite states? < 1587945031 947749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. TC-ness is a bit overrated. < 1587945076 430621 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, especially because esolangs are ESOTERIC < 1587945093 534819 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost any system is turing-complete. < 1587945104 196656 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without too much effort. < 1587945110 71057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual view on any computer is that it's a finite state machine with a ridiculously huge state space... easily 2^2^2^40 states *excluding* external storage. < 1587945136 965062 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a disconnect between TC-ness (which computers aren't) and being useful for programming (which computers very much are). < 1587945140 193695 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, but most esolangs deal with the hypothetical infinite case for the turing completeness proof. < 1587945155 464224 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interesting esolang case is Malbolge. < 1587945171 398400 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587945188 108779 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that paper which showed a way to functionally program in Malbolge? < 1587945191 789330 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was insane. < 1587945228 232170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has about 3^590490 states, which technically makes it a finite state machine, but you can still program it by selecting starting states that exhibit interesting behavior. < 1587945237 128180 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1587945269 880716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't. I have not actually delved into Malbolge programming... still amazed that people actually accomplished it :) < 1587945272 133397 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has a finite number of programs, is it Turing complete? I wouldn't think so... < 1587945315 226869 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's not. < 1587945317 348608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it did change my view on what constitutes programming, and how it relates (or doesn't) to Turing-completeness. < 1587945334 134569 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Malbolge is one of the more out-there ones. < 1587945337 587768 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a finite state machine, so it's not TC. < 1587945342 516661 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1587945398 848453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Malbolge Unshackled which lifts the memory constraint and is TC (as a programming language; implementations will be constrained by computer hardware). < 1587945407 105310 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1587945427 820340 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one of those languages that makes you think "who was sadistic enough to think of this" < 1587945502 704930 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the Malbolge truth machine: < 1587945504 163473 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:98765FD21dd!-,O*)y'&v5#"!DC|Qzf,*vutsrqpF!Clk|ih < 1587945511 378631 :Train!ca9a8601@202-154-134-1.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.