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00:37:57 <esowiki> [[No]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70042 * Vulture001 * (+630) Created
00:38:41 <esowiki> [[User:Vulture001]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70043&oldid=70040 * Vulture001 * (+46)
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03:09:47 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70046&oldid=67527 * Vulture001 * (+34) /* Looks Like */
03:17:47 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Vulture001 * uploaded "[[File:SC logo.png]]"
03:17:50 <esowiki> [[SovietCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70048 * Vulture001 * (+758) Created page with "[[File:SC logo.png|130px|border|thumb|Logo|right]]'''SovietCode''' is a Python-interpreted, joke programming language created by [[User:Vulture001|Vulture001]]. The sole purpo..."
03:23:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Beatnik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70049&oldid=46212 * Quadril-Is * (+46)
03:23:59 <esowiki> [[Talk:Beatnik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70050&oldid=70049 * Quadril-Is * (+95)
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08:33:30 <Banana51> Hey. Anyone here experienced with the npiet interpreter and decoding npiet?
08:35:10 <oerjan> is npiet something other than piet?
08:36:14 <oerjan> i know some here have done piet, at least.
08:40:30 <Banana51> I have a challenge I have to solve, and it asks for a password. I have to reverse engineer it. It is a piet file.
08:40:46 <Banana51> I have tried to "visual trace" it, but I cannot find any compare instructions that compares to my input.
08:43:17 <b_jonas> put printfs in the interpreter?
08:43:37 <b_jonas> it might not be enough since there could be multiple execution paths with conditionals, but it's a start
08:44:14 <int-e> npiet has a non-visual trace already
08:45:07 <Banana51> put printfs in the interpreter? I have a .ppm file that I run with ./npiet <file> -t, and it prints the actions (instructions).
08:45:08 <int-e> (But no, I have not used it for anything, not recently anyway.)
08:45:24 <Banana51> Yeah, that would be the -t I think
08:46:01 <Banana51> I know approximately where it compares, but there are no cc or compare instructions, which makes me a bit confused.
08:46:22 <Banana51> But yes, there seems to be multiple execution paths
08:48:25 <oerjan> maybe give it two different passwords and see where execution starts to differ
08:50:40 <int-e> As for comparison it could be obfuscated in various ways, but it may also simply be a 'not', which does a comparison with 0.
08:57:38 <int-e> oerjan: Clippy got a face-lift :)
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09:02:00 <b_jonas> how large is the piet program? is it large enough to do a strong cryptographic checksum of the password, to make it hard to decode it?
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09:02:51 <Banana51> I wouldnt say it is that large
09:03:05 <Banana51> I think I just found a way to do it, by reading all the stack values and converting decimal -> ascii
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09:17:10 <cpressey> I just noticed that this channel is the international center for esoteric programming library design.
09:18:17 <int-e> Though I had not realized we were branching out into architecture.
09:21:13 <Banana51> Seems like that was a dead end... Did not find anything useful...
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11:10:26 <wib_jonas> `pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/rubbed/
11:10:28 <HackEso> pbflist https://pbfcomics.com/comics/rubbed/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale kmc
11:21:28 <tromp> https://mathoverflow.net/questions/353514/whatt-the-smallest-lambda-calculus-term-which-is-not-known-to-have-a-normal-for
11:22:05 <rain1> I like that question
11:22:34 <rain1> I had wanted to work on it but I didn't do it
11:27:20 <int-e> tromp: you need to specify a reduction strategy for that.
11:27:46 <int-e> tromp: At least for the quantitative version (the busy beaver function)
11:28:17 <rain1> I feel like it would be very interesting to approach this problem using automated theorem proving
11:36:19 <tromp> i specified normal order
11:55:31 <tromp> ps: fixed subject which moved it to https://mathoverflow.net/questions/353514/whats-the-smallest-lambda-calculus-term-not-known-to-have-a-normal-form
12:02:31 <int-e> tromp: Oh so you did, sorry. I was looking for something more verbose (leftmost outermost)
12:02:59 <tromp> i went with the Wikipedia nomenclature
12:04:26 <tromp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Reduction_strategies
12:05:16 <tromp> i also thought it sounded less arbitrary:-)
12:13:05 <tromp> i expect all terms under 50 bits should be manually decidable
12:13:58 <tromp> but things should get interesting under 100 bits
12:18:00 <tromp> one may be able to look for odd perfect number in under 200 bits
12:19:12 <tromp> computing divisors by indexing cyclic lists
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13:31:08 <int-e> tromp: Oh I found your https://oeis.org/A114852
13:35:19 <int-e> this for sizes up to 100 :)
13:35:38 <int-e> Terms with size up to 50: 145448015544; size up to 100: 14186608955706026703799033
13:36:05 <rain1> too many to check exaustively then
13:36:08 <int-e> wib_jonas: Well, the way I found the sequence is that I wrote code to compute it :P So I basically was already at my goal.
13:37:17 <wib_jonas> 145448015544 is around 2**38, 14186608955706026703799033 is around 2**84, for those who don't like counting digits because it's a computer's chore
13:40:25 <int-e> You can prune quite a bit (e.g., any terms with a non-duplicating beta-redex, possibly using some extended beta-reduction (what I have in mind is reducing (\x\y\z.M[x,y,z]) r s t to (\x\y.M[x,y,t]) r s).
13:40:59 <int-e> But the space will still be large after that.
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15:27:58 <int-e> kmc: What are you laughing about?
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16:02:03 <wib_jonas> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/villainy-theory another one about modern supervillain strategy, so soon after https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/supervillainy
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16:19:47 <tromp> well, you can also prune a term t if it ever reduces to some term smaller than t
16:20:21 <tromp> (generalizing your existence of non-duplicating beta-redex)
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18:59:03 <esowiki> [[I like frog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70051&oldid=69883 * Apollyon094 * (+22)
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19:27:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:BitBitJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70052&oldid=30074 * Apollyon094 * (+225)
19:28:30 <esowiki> [[Talk:BitBitJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70053&oldid=70052 * Apollyon094 * (+1)
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23:44:17 <tromp> i changed the lambda busy beaver definition to use normal form size rather than number of normal order reduction steps
23:45:02 <tromp> see https://mathoverflow.net/questions/353514/whats-the-smallest-lambda-calculus-term-not-known-to-have-a-normal-form