00:08:56 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:44:11 -!- j-bot has joined. 01:20:16 -!- FreeFull has quit. 01:23:38 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 02:03:26 -!- sleepnap has joined. 02:03:28 -!- sleepnap has left. 02:27:30 [[User:Truttle1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68834 * Truttle1 * (+293) Made a page for some reason 02:27:40 [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68835&oldid=68834 * Truttle1 * (+0) 02:27:52 [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68836&oldid=68835 * Truttle1 * (+5) 02:28:08 [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68837&oldid=68836 * Truttle1 * (+2) 02:29:26 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Idle 00006.png]]" 02:30:01 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Truttle1 * uploaded "[[File:Idle 00001.png]]" 02:31:18 [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68840&oldid=68837 * Truttle1 * (+60) 02:50:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:53:05 hm esolangs.org seems down 02:58:17 and tunes is inexplicably _not_ serving plain text 02:58:31 oh hm 02:59:22 oh well it's just mislabeled 03:02:38 huh nope 03:07:47 ah finally 03:12:39 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 03:13:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:14:00 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 03:19:55 The esolangs.org logs server does this weird thing where it sometimes just hangs. Works now for me though. 03:20:21 I was supposed to upload a debug build with symbols so I could figure out what's up, but never did. 03:23:42 well the wiki is still down 03:24:02 as are the logs 03:24:19 so it's presumably a different problem. 03:24:35 I don't know about that. Both work for me. 03:26:59 hm downforeveryone* agrees with you. 03:27:59 as does my linux account. i guess i'm having DNS trouble again. 03:31:37 hm switching DNS server didn't help 03:42:42 [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68841&oldid=68771 * JonoCode9374 * (+407) 03:43:29 [[Keta]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68842&oldid=68841 * JonoCode9374 * (+11) /* Terminology */ 03:56:39 Another kind of font metric format could be, instead of the ligature/kerning and character info that TeX uses, to have the font design size and font parameters, and then a program used for rendering a sequence of characters in the font (some of which may have accent marks added), given as input the DPI, at size, left boundary type, right boundary type, and as output can execute instructions to move the cursor and to draw glyphs on the page. 03:57:09 This way it is possible to use multi-byte encodings, kerning and ligatures with accented letters, etc. 04:03:15 Is there a MIME type for PNG file storing CMYK data in place of RGBA? 04:09:21 why would you store an imamge in cmyk? 04:09:40 *image 04:11:24 For printing. 04:12:05 oh, right 04:12:49 though i thought PNG was always RGBA 04:13:46 PNG is always RGBA. But is there a MIME type to indicate that it is meant to be interpreted as CMYK instead? 04:14:11 why would there be? 04:15:04 I don't know, but it is something that might be useful for something that I am making. 04:16:26 make your on format based on netpbm? 04:16:40 *own 04:17:30 NetPBM formats are not compressed. 04:17:34 can't you just shift the channels around and treat them as CMYK? the scales are the same, right? 04:17:43 0-255? 04:18:55 Yes of course that is possible; I just wanted to know if there is a MIME type to indicate that it is doing that. 04:19:15 iirc, 255 - R = C, and so on 04:20:39 Lykaina: If you do not include K, then yes, it is. 04:21:25 how does the generation of K work? 04:29:10 I think there are a few different ways of doing it; in PostScript when using RGB colours on a CMYK device you can customize the way of doing that. 04:40:37 (You might also want to store a picture with more than four channels, such as Hexachrome, but I don't know what file formats would use such thing.) 04:41:53 hm now esolangs.org _sometimes_ loads. 04:43:15 but mostly not. :( 04:56:45 I found something says that Magic: the Gathering cards are printed with CMYK, with a second layer of black for text and borders, and a underprinting layer for foil cards. 04:59:29 So, I would intend in future to add support for custom separations to TeXnicard, in order it is capable to make such things like this. 05:02:07 better now. 05:51:37 -!- craigo has joined. 05:52:04 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68843&oldid=68833 * Oerjan * (-1) HOW DARE YOU NOT COMPREHEND THIS PAGE'S SIMPLE SORTING SY oh hi ais523 05:53:35 admittedly ais523's errors are more logical than some of the others. 05:54:16 (including space in the sorting) 06:09:47 sometimes mediawiki's diff just makes me want to scream https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=%E2%99%A6&diff=68819&oldid=66194 06:11:11 What are you sorting? 06:12:20 ah good, it was only the last four characters. 06:13:43 zzo38: the language list 06:57:01 [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68844&oldid=53889 * Zzo38 * (+343) Bohm's algorithms 06:57:18 [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68845&oldid=68844 * Zzo38 * (+5) 08:22:13 zzo38: PNG image storing CYMK => I don't see why you want a mime type for that. just put some new section into the png itself instead to indicate that. 08:33:24 TeXnicard needs to know whether a picture is RGB or CMYK before loading it, which it can know by the MIME type. However, the MIME type does not need to be determined only by the filename extension; it can be determined in other ways too. 08:48:36 -!- arseniiv has joined. 09:00:31 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:34:28 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:48:46 epimorphisms are epic 09:49:01 you may be onto something 09:55:06 :D 10:11:20 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 11:22:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:12:08 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:12:35 -!- craigo has joined. 13:22:50 -!- rain1 has joined. 13:45:38 i think, we should rename CMYK to YMCK 13:46:19 Yan Magenta Cello Key? 13:47:00 didn't the K stand for black? 13:47:26 If it did then it would be CMYB 13:47:33 good idea 13:47:54 (I looked up on Wikipedia what K stood for before I wrote my comment) 13:53:29 why isn't it RGBK then? 13:54:06 Because that doesn't usually use the key plate? 13:54:15 Because it's for digital media rather than print 13:54:58 what's up? 14:06:31 -!- xkapastel has joined. 14:21:40 I think there was some disagreement here recently about it still standing for blacK. The Wikipedia CMYK page has a [citation needed] tag next to "key". 14:22:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:CMYK_color_model#K:_Key_or_blacK 14:22:15 tl;dr "nobody knows, whatever" 14:23:10 Heh, there's a zzo38 comment there, didn't even notice. 14:25:37 how is he so prolific 15:13:11 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 15:16:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:16:20 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 15:27:59 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 15:28:48 I consider K standing for black. Except in Magic, where for some reason, B stands for black and U stands for blue and Q stands for untap. It would have been easier in Magic too if K stood for black and B for blue and U for untap, but it's too late for that now. 15:31:29 In esoteric context, it should be black, because in the SML/NG markup language from ICFP 2001 "http://cristal.inria.fr/ICFP2001/prog-contest/task.html", the letters "rgbcmykw" stand for the colors red green blue cyan magenta yellow black white respectively. 15:34:26 I think it should've been S for schwarz. 15:35:29 sehr gut! 15:35:52 but wouldn't it be cmgs then? 15:36:24 . o O (Which languages have a different first letter for all of {red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, black, white}?) 15:36:46 hmm, k-shield radius 15:38:08 Rosso, verde, azzurro, ciano, magenta, giallo, nero, bianco 15:39:18 Finnish manages a triple fail, because blue 'sininen' / cyan 'sinivihreä/syaani', black 'musta' / magenta 'magenta' and green 'vihreä' / white 'valkoinen' all share a first letter. 15:40:19 So, clearly, "B" should stand for "White" 15:41:06 (I've had to do a trick here which actually also works in English, saying "azure" instead of "blue") 15:41:07 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:42:55 the strange thing is, cmyb would actually work 15:43:38 Taneb: also белый (now why do I remember that word...) 15:43:55 int-e: I don't think that's either English or Italian 15:44:04 Taneb: But it starts with a b. 15:44:31 I think it starts with a б 15:44:46 `unidecode б 15:44:48 ​[U+0431 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BE] 15:46:17 -!- sleepnap has joined. 15:48:40 be :D It could be jokingly read as “бе” with a palatalized /bʲ/ and it would be either a sheep imitation or a somewhat childish expression of mild disgust 15:50:56 A bit like "bah" in English? 15:53:22 yeah. Also бэ, which is how the letter is pronounced today (and for quite a long time; I was surprised to know that some time ago it was pronounced with a palatalized consonant), is used for “bah” too 15:58:27 -!- imode has joined. 16:02:01 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 16:02:22 fizzie: try https://www.omniglot.com/language/colours/index.php 16:02:47 pronounced and named officially*, though sometimes people write бе as there is an unphonetic streak that in many cases е is used in place of э and doesn’t mean the prev. consonant is palatalized. Cumbersome, though maybe English orthography is still more complex. Written languages like English are good in that they often allow several spellings as “the right ones”, like with coordinates, co-ordinates or even coördinates. Here, those circum 16:02:47 stances are very rare. People run themselves into a corner. One spelling reform back in IIRC sixties was cancelled because there was a loud protest to write several word classes in a more logical manner because they looked unpleasant. Uh, I’m certain those individuals would get accustomed to new spelling in no time 16:07:54 Having experienced an orthography reform... it was exciting. 16:08:58 (We had one in 1996, with a follow-up around 2004 that undid the most controversial aspects. But most of it stood the test of time. And yes, it involved allowing variant spellings.) 16:10:02 true, French modern orthography has some words where the spelling looks weird but at least it's phonetic. the best example is probably "aigüe", where the diæresis is used because otherwise the u would be silent. 16:10:09 I'm not sure what variant spellings do to foreigners learning the language. 16:10:20 I imagine it can be quite confusing. 16:11:05 int-e: what, like "ass" and "arse"? or all the -our words (color, neighbor, behavior, honor, odor, etc)? 16:11:05 I'm sher it woodent bee two confuzing 16:11:38 or dwarfs and dwarves, fairy and fairie and fae? 16:12:06 if someone’s interested, one of the weird normative cases well-known today is the gender of “кофе” (coffee). Several centuries ago it pronounced and spelled like кофий and declined in a way normal for a masculine noun. Long story short, now its nom. sg. looks like a perfect case of a neuter gender noun like солнце, окно or e. g. какао (cocoa and cacao). In literary norm though its thought as indeclinable, and indeclinable 16:12:06 nouns in a language heavily using declension is a thorn. But using кофе as a declinable neuter noun is frowned upon in the “literate” circles. Though finally dictionaries start to adopt the declinable variant, after decades and decades of use. Still, many snobs think they know better that even a normative dictionary 16:13:35 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:13:49 I imagine it can be quite confusing. => maybe, but at least they wouldn’t be frowned upon if using at all times only one of them 16:14:01 I hope at one point the MTA decides to investigate the question on how the words "kisebb, zőlő, folyosó, köpeny" should be spelled. it's tricky because in some of those cases, both pronunciation is used. 16:15:31 hmm, I typoed that 16:15:41 the words "kisebb, szőlő, folyosó, köpeny" 16:16:31 then they also have to consider the cases where the pronunciation is clear, but despite that the spelling isn't, as in "bicikli/bicigli, kesztyű/keztyű" 16:18:05 alternate spelling variants hurt searchability of course 16:19:26 natural languages are hard :) 16:20:06 it's especially bad when at least one of the spelling variant is homographic with some other word. 16:22:13 my favorite is "mold" vs "mould", both of which can mean either a kind of fungus, or a container to shape something that you pour into as a liquid but then hardens. the latter is also called a "die", which has two other meanings, one of which is also spelled "dice". 16:24:13 The die is cast 16:24:35 yeah 16:24:46 i like fungus 16:24:57 and fungot 16:24:57 kmc: a ( add b c)) 16:25:14 yes, cast is what you call when you shape an object by pouring it as a liquid into a mold or mould or die 16:25:34 It's also a word meaning to throw 16:27:52 . o O ( The password of the minute is attention defici. ) 16:28:38 another example is "draught" vs "draft" 16:28:49 both of which have way too many meanings 16:28:58 and for some of them, you can use either spelling 16:28:59 Dearest creature in creation... 16:29:24 The pronunciation of "draught" should be more naughty. 16:29:44 int-e: as in https://ozyandmillie.org/comic/ozy-and-millie-2103/ ? 16:30:21 wib_jonas: Yes, like hat. 16:32:26 there's also some other systematic variant English spellings besides the -or/-our words: a lot of -ize/-ise and -ization/-isation words, some of which come up in programming too; a few -er/-re words including scepter/sceptre, specter/spectre, meter/metre, liter/litre. 16:33:32 also some -ice/-ise words, most commonly advice 16:35:21 I personally try to use -or, but "neighbor" and "behavior" are hard because the -our spelling is too much in my fingers; the -ize version, the -ice version, but I'm not sure about -er vs -re 16:35:38 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:35:43 oh, there's saber/sabre among the -er/-re words 16:53:06 -!- olsner has joined. 17:22:44 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:25:06 -!- FraterEST has joined. 17:51:59 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:55:06 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:01:02 http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=devil&Query=die 18:01:21 A cube of cheese no larger than a die 18:01:21 May bait the trap to catch a nibbling mie. 18:02:10 -!- FraterEST has left. 18:02:52 i have read that mice don't actually like cheese that much 18:03:36 we got these no-kill mouse traps 18:03:48 the English instructions suggest using peanut butter or cheese 18:03:57 but the French and Spanish instructions suggest peanut butter or chocolate 18:05:31 well, english chocolate apparently is not as good, or french and spanish cheese is no good 18:06:08 maybe its a price thing 18:09:00 -!- zseri has joined. 18:11:43 given that set of 3 languages it's probably marketed for North America 18:11:50 and American cheese is, objectively, terrible 18:11:58 perhaps it's a kind of terrible that mice prefer to actual cheese, idk 18:12:18 the mouse in our house seems to like brown rice and ramen noodles 18:12:22 well, there might just be terrible mice too 18:12:35 but lately it's lurking in the living room / workspace too 18:12:37 they cant all be educated/cultured 18:12:41 I hope it's not stealing my wires for nests 18:12:41 true 18:23:37 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:24:38 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:45:06 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:55:08 http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=devil&Query=die => wow, what an article! 18:55:42 Taneb: it's not CMYB because B was already for blue in RGB 18:57:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:28 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:00:24 -!- b_jonas has joined. 19:06:49 kmc: The mice you entice prefer mainly the rice? 19:22:33 [[Psychairefatback (Archive)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68846 * Lebster * (+1881) Created page with "'''This page is an archive''' of the page for Psychairefatback, a language which I thought was cool and should be archived but that was removed by its creator. Here is the pag..." 19:23:20 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68847&oldid=68660 * Lebster * (+27) /* Languages I like */ 19:35:48 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68848&oldid=68847 * Lebster * (+92) 19:39:42 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:40:52 -!- sleepnap has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:41:17 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68849&oldid=68848 * Lebster * (+39) 19:41:51 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68850&oldid=68849 * Lebster * (+311) 19:43:18 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68851&oldid=68850 * Lebster * (-227) 19:43:25 [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68852&oldid=68851 * Lebster * (-84) 20:15:07 [[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68853 * Hakerh400 * (+2417) +[[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] 20:16:46 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68854&oldid=68843 * Hakerh400 * (+40) +[[Finite-state mach... wait, WHAT!?]] 20:19:25 [[User:Hakerh400]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68855&oldid=68802 * Hakerh400 * (+40) 20:41:31 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: zseri). 20:44:29 -!- sleepnap has joined. 21:02:52 Fortunately, it is possible in PostScript to specify separations even if separations are not implemented, so even before I implement separations in TeXnicard it is still possible to specify the text separation like Magic: the Gathering uses such as by writing: [/Separation /Text /DeviceGray {1.0 exch sub}] setcolorspace 21:04:34 The article I read did not metion the shiny mark I see on some newer cards (although maybe I missed it). Do you know how that works? Is it another separation? 21:07:15 zzo38: you don't mean the hologram seal at the bottom, right? 21:07:45 Actually I do mean the hologram seal at the bottom, I think 21:08:40 I think that one is on all rares and mythics since they introduced the new frame 21:10:19 which was in 2014 for the Magic 2015 set I think 21:11:25 I believe they put that on cards so that they're more difficult to counterfeit, but not on all cards presumably to save printing costs 21:14:05 Yes, probably, but I was wondering how the printing of it works. Is it a separation, or is it just added to the entire rare sheet afterward, or something else? (Anyways, TeXnicard is not only for Magic: the Gathering, and is intended to contain nothing specific to Magic: the Gathering, and some people may use to make other card games too.) 21:14:49 I don't knowhow it's added 21:15:38 OK 21:19:12 note that there's a different shiny seal at the bottom of some card sleeves 21:19:29 its location and shape is different 21:19:38 just in case you see those on photos of M:tG cards 21:23:01 OK 21:23:47 there's probably some info about the seal on cards in a Wizards article back in 2014 when it was introduced, but probably not about the print technology 22:17:27 Are you interested in this software? 22:17:41 Do you know someone who is? 22:17:59 in TeXnicard? not really, because I don't want to create printed custom cards 22:18:42 Do you like to create custom cards without printing them? (It is meant to be usable for that, too.) 22:18:58 not in a way where I create a full image mockup for that 22:19:05 I created a very few as just text descriptions 22:19:30 mostly as just thought experiments for what cards would or would not work 22:21:20 Yes, that works, although even with TeXnicard it would not require to render them; you can still create a card set and import/export them, query them, calculate statistics of them, make random packs, etc (I also intend to add a format for doing collaboration over NNTP, so that changes can be recorded using NNTP and commented on). MSE does similar thing but requires the card to be rendered to do anything at all. 22:22:11 zzo38: what I should do is download and parse the text of all cards from Gatherer, plus download the text of all cards from Scryfall 22:22:24 I started at one point but I was too lazy to finish 22:23:01 and then once I get that, repeat it four times a year, once after each standard-legal set 22:23:33 Yes, I wanted that data too 22:37:01 What Magic: the Gathering cards did you make up (even just for experiment)? 22:52:07 zzo38: https://esolangs.org/logs/2018-10.html#lsw 22:54:52 and there's a green creature that you have to sacrifice when you control a creature with power greater than its power, but I couldn't get it to be a good card 22:55:04 I mean a card that I'm satisfied with 22:57:24 zzo38: I think I originally mentioned that card here: https://esolangs.org/logs/2015-10-06.html#loj 23:11:14 -!- sleepnap has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:15:49 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).