00:15:38 -!- mniip has quit (Ping timeout: 612 seconds). 00:18:56 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 00:18:56 -!- zemhill_________ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:22:24 -!- mniip has joined. 00:24:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:24:39 -!- zemhill_________ has joined. 00:33:20 -!- mniip has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:44 -!- mniip has joined. 00:50:34 -!- FreeFull has quit. 01:56:40 forthers seem to be really against new concepts. must be a religion. 01:57:58 imode: forthers? 03:32:08 ArthurStrong: people who use forth. 03:34:40 It's a fine religion, really 03:42:05 it's like, nothing makes sense unless it's _explicitly two stacks and ANSI Forth words_. 03:42:40 and they hate anything that deviates from that. despite, you know, the main theme of the language is that it's relatively amorphic. 04:05:24 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Blame iczero something happened). 04:05:36 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 04:05:39 -!- probability has quit (Quit: rip). 04:09:05 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:13:04 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 04:15:44 -!- iovoid has joined. 04:16:03 -!- wlp1s1 has joined. 04:16:54 -!- moony has joined. 04:17:06 -!- wlp1s1 has changed nick to probability. 04:23:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:24:53 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:31:15 -!- atslash has joined. 04:31:31 What wording should I use at the top of the source file if it is meant to be public domain? Currently I just wrote "// This program is public domain." but someone complained (article on Usenet). 05:13:08 OIC 05:20:51 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:29:40 I found the answer 05:31:04 The domain is public, but what's the codomain? 05:33:54 I don't know. 05:34:42 shachaf: you have to find inverse function? 05:42:51 What? 05:44:27 shachaf: you want to find a codomain of f(public)? 05:55:48 Since sometimes there is a kernel panic when I use the printer with my computer, would it work if instead I use a Raspberry Pi computer as the printing server and then connect it to the router? Will that allow me to print properly? 05:58:34 Nothing will allow you to print properly. Printers don't work. 05:58:55 Though a kernel panic sounds like a particularly bad failure. 05:59:04 (But I empathize with the kernel.) 06:05:01 I wonder if it is a problem with the USB interface of the printer. This printer also has wireless internet, although I have been unable to get it to work. 06:05:04 zzo38: it's worth a shot. i guess the question is whether the raspberry pi will encounter the same kernel panic 06:05:59 kmc: Yes, now I thought maybe it will. But sometimes it works. So, even if it does, at least that way it will not shut down the entire computer and only the printing server will be shut down in that case, I suppose. 06:06:25 that does seem like an improvement 06:09:15 Can you run a virtual machine or userspace process and have that run the printer drivers? 06:09:47 If it is a hardware problem then I do not expect that to work. 06:22:54 shachaf: I was going to suggest that but it seemed too silly even for here 06:23:23 but it's true, it would isolate the kernel panics the same as the rpi would 06:24:01 higan 06:24:15 imo you should invent my fancy programming language for me 06:24:47 I think it if is a problem with the hardware such as with the power or whatever, I am not so sure that it would isolate the kernel panics then. 06:25:38 I would expect that it's a driver problem. 06:25:58 What sort of nonsense could be going over the USB cable to cause a kernel panic? 06:26:29 What's my best bet for doing ELF linking? 06:26:32 I don't know, but I think that someone suggested here before it might be some kind of hardware problem 06:26:44 Is doing it myself too much trouble because of things like link-time optimization and C++? 06:27:12 Maybe I can use ld to do link-time optimization of libraries by prelinking them into one object file. 06:30:33 shachaf: less than 3 hours left in my first gigasecond of life 06:30:40 we made cake 06:30:46 whoa 06:30:53 i want cake 06:31:27 * kmc hands shachaf a piece of cake 06:31:48 i want edible cake and not just words 06:32:05 do I actually want to stay up until 02:12 06:32:10 today i made myself delicious noncake food 06:32:15 do you have a choice 06:32:31 i'm (to borrow a phrase you once used) pregretting this decision 06:33:04 Did I say that? 06:33:11 yes 06:33:20 i think you were going to go with me to the flea market at butt o' clock in cupertino 06:33:27 and said you were pregretting the decision to do so 06:33:37 but in the end you didn't, so I guess that pregret was for naught? 06:33:40 I must've pregretted it so much that I didn't do it. 06:33:48 That sounds like the most useful kind of pregret. 06:34:07 Why regret -- or pregret -- things if it has no effect on your actions? That's just useless suffering. 06:34:25 is the concept of pregret related to the concept of type II fun? 06:34:37 it's sort of the opposite 06:35:05 type II fun is motivated by pre-reminiscing or something 06:35:21 preminiscing? 06:35:38 my friend carson mapped out the 8 combinations of positive or negative feelings before, during, and after an activity 06:35:42 and gave each one a name 06:35:45 i'm going to preminisce a bunch of \rainbow{coins} for my big ico 06:35:46 but i forgot what most of the names were 06:35:54 I met that human once! 06:36:12 the name he used for enjoyment before/during, regret after was "hedonism" and I objected strongly 06:36:35 Hedonism seems to be the entire subset of enjoyment during, or something? 06:36:43 and cited hedonism-bot from futurama 06:37:27 I think it's a subtype of enjoyment 06:37:35 but perhaps a tricky-to-define one 06:39:00 🍄 06:39:13 mushroom 06:39:29 I was invited on a mushroom foraging trip but it turns out I'll have an MRI on the same day so I can't go. :-( 06:39:32 aw 06:39:34 that's too bad 06:39:40 what are the details of this trip? 06:42:46 there's also the matter of short-term versus long-term regret 06:43:19 i.e. a wild night out may result in a hangover but become a fond memory over time 06:44:36 not sure about the details 06:46:15 shachaf: i could bring you some cake on friday maybe 06:46:25 after all you're the one who told me about my birthgigasecond in the first place 06:46:28 <3 06:46:36 it has eggs and dairy btw 06:46:54 and a little beer 06:47:10 whoa, did I? 06:47:56 I guess I should keep track of people who are around your age who also have their birthgigasecond coming up. 06:52:50 I made ZZ Zero, it is a bit similar to ZZT, but ZZ Zero has its own assembly language. Here is an assembly language code in ZZ Zero: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/example1 Now I noticed there is a few bugs and a few things which could be written better than it is, did you find it even though it is not explained? 06:55:45 kmc: speaking of mushrooms are you mushroom pizzaing 07:03:16 Do you like ZZ Zero? 07:03:41 ZZZero38? 07:07:36 No, it is just the game program similar to ZZT, therefore I called it ZZ Zero instead. 07:09:55 How to improve the keyboard speed in BASIC? I did figure out a code to clear the keyboard buffer: DEF SEG = 0 : POKE &H41A, PEEK(&H41C) but this does not improve the speed of the keyboard, and only fixes it so that if the keys are held down to indicate movement, the move will stop as soon as the key is released, if the game speed is slower than the keys. 07:11:37 shachaf: when is mushroom pizza 07:12:19 I like to make plain pizza 07:12:23 not announced yet 07:12:24 (without mushrooms) 07:12:34 zzo38: which machine is that for 07:13:31 kmc: The BASIC code I posted is for PC. 07:13:52 (As far as I know, DEF SEG does not apply to any other computer) 07:14:26 and what does DEF SEG do? 07:14:43 I wrote plenty of QBASIC code but very rarely used POKE/PEEK 07:14:58 Selects which segment to use for POKE/PEEK. 07:15:09 OK 07:16:19 zzo38: What are the ingredients of plain pizza? 07:16:23 Is it only dough? 07:16:46 (For example, if you write DEF SEG = &HB800 then you can access the video memory.) 07:18:10 shachaf: It is pizza dough, yes, although it is not entirely plain because I add oregano and oil on top too, usually, and sometimes also cheese (but not as much as the commercial pizzas). 08:21:33 shachaf: quickly get a metalic hip prothesis to get out of the MRI and be able to go to the trip 08:26:06 But I want the MRI. 08:30:13 shachaf: you'll have to organize another such trip then 08:30:30 at a more suitable time 08:40:54 -!- arseniiv has joined. 08:43:08 -!- cpressey has joined. 08:49:56 -!- b_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:09:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:13:31 woo, made it 09:13:35 1e9 09:37:47 -!- tromp has joined. 09:40:34 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:41:22 -!- atslash has joined. 10:25:41 kmc: congrats! 10:26:23 let the second gigasecond be even more nice 10:27:13 hm it seems no one @told me anything about HOAS, let’s logread to be sure 10:41:16 maye be should start using stub templates? => hehe 10:41:26 Nothing will allow you to print properly. Printers don't work. => sad but true 10:43:59 an esolang where the print command behaves like a printer with all its quirks 10:44:53 oh it hurts 10:45:59 * arseniiv is going to add some quotes to HackEso privately and no one will know if he’s done something wrong 10:47:03 sometimes, print will just put out some random emojis upside down 10:47:32 other times, it will print white on black because somebody configured it to do so 10:55:26 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 10:59:53 oh pizzas. Now I want pizza 11:00:02 I ate a croissaint today 11:00:51 cut your pizzas into twelve~ 11:01:29 `hurl 11:01:30 https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ 11:01:46 oh TIL it’s written “croissant”, no saints and crosses, just a crescent 11:01:50 oh no 11:03:01 I was discovered!! :o 11:03:21 no more private talk with HackEso :′( 11:04:48 myname: is it because 12 has so many divisors? 11:05:22 arseniiv: yeah, there's a song from axis of awesome about it 11:05:32 interesting 11:06:01 an 8 slice pizza cannot be evenly shared by three 11:06:10 hi 11:06:53 mmm pizza 11:07:24 Lykaina: hi 11:07:54 woke up at 6:56am to someone knocking at either my or my neihbor's door 11:08:39 I want another croissaint, but it’s not healthy (and so delicious) and I don’t have any left 11:09:18 damn, I wrote “croissaint” again 11:09:20 eat pizza instead 11:09:32 no pizza either! 11:09:47 no anything, only tea and apples 11:09:54 and a fridge 11:10:36 (I’m not entirely serious but there’s no pastry-dough-things) 11:10:52 i don't even get how you come to "croissaint", the pronounciation would be completely off 11:10:58 go shopping, today because tomorrow is a holiday and every shop will be closed. or order food from the internet. 11:11:40 tomorrow is a holiday? 11:13:44 myname: I know only pieces of French orthography :D hm now if I to compare with something I remember, it would indeed obvious. Though before today I hadn’t even write it in latin script at all 11:14:53 and yesterday eating the previous croissant I thought it was connected with saints, not thinking too much about what it would entail for pronunciation 11:15:24 that one I think was the reason the second i emerged today 11:16:16 wib_jonas: hm what holiday, is it international enough?.. 11:17:14 I have enough food but I want croissant but you may remember that I said donuts are the devil or something, and croissants definitely aren’t so far 11:18:25 Lykaina: yes, it will be --11-01, that's been a holiday for about ten years now 11:18:36 it is somewhat international 11:19:07 what? 11:24:04 all saints day? 11:24:51 ``` hg log -T "{rev}:{date|shortdate}:{files}:{desc}\n" -r 11995: 11:24:52 11995:2019-10-31:quotes: addquote The domain is public, but what\'s the codomain? 11:25:49 Lykaina: dunno. I don't care about the significance or name of the holiday. that's for other people. it only matters that it's a holiday when most people don't work. 11:26:07 i'm only awake cause some moron was knocking on doors 11:26:16 go back to sleep 11:26:34 can't 11:26:56 have to wake in an hour 11:29:37 perfect time for youtube 11:33:22 arseniiv: lambdabot did not msg me! But I read the logs. HOAS is intriguing (I've been reading about it) but it sounds like you have to apply higher-order unification to use it, which sounds a bit heavyweight "just for syntax". Also I'm not yet clear on what exactly makes it better than de Bruijn indexes. 11:35:12 I find de Bruijn indexes hard to read, but you could always pretty-print them into variable names when dumping out a structure. 13:37:39 hm I think I made my HOAS best it could be without dependent types. I bet it allows false-positive “proofs” (of first-order statements, as propositionally the thing should work as expected), though I’m lazy to search for them; https://repl.it/repls/ImpartialWaterloggedFolder 13:39:28 cpressey: on de Bruijn indices: agree 13:46:08 hmmm could I write something like `Ex :: (Term t -> F (a t)) -> F (forall t. (Term t, a t))` 13:46:23 I don’t even know what it is 13:46:39 this should be akin to runST 13:49:55 and then `ExI :: Term t -> I (a t) -> I (forall t. (Term t, a t)` and ``ExE :: I (forall t. (Term t, a t)) -> (Term t -> I (a t) -> I b) -> I b` or something 13:51:03 would the code typecheck if this is a valid syntax at all 14:30:59 fungot, what's better for turning undead, a lathe or a turntable? 14:30:59 wib_jonas: a lot to the paladins and a full line, much like this go board and replace it with the same way that i, myself, can hear?? 14:31:34 a lot of paladins for turning undead? yes, that could work 14:56:02 -!- imode has joined. 14:57:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:58:47 `ysac Garlic Bread Guide - You Suck at Cooking (episode 98) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPuV52ydBfU 14:58:47 ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ysac: not found 14:58:55 `ysaclist 14:58:55 ysaclist: boily shachaf 15:09:30 -!- tromp has joined. 15:57:29 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:28 arseniiv: Interesting, I should try to wrap my head around https://repl.it/repls/ImpartialWaterloggedFolder sometime (I'll need more practice with GADTs first I think) 16:13:34 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4). 16:28:45 ironic that I’m not so easy about GADTs still. It seems they are simple, but who knows what I could be missing. What GHC desugars them into wasn’t obvious to me when I read about that a week(?) ago 16:49:35 arseniiv: GADTs are not magic... 16:49:39 it's a fancy work 16:49:42 word 16:49:59 First you start with ADT - what IS an ADT? 16:51:19 (If I remember correctly) An ADT is a type with no parameters: type LoL = Int | String 16:51:35 A GADT is a type that can take parameters (Generalized) 16:51:44 Type LoL a = Int | a 16:51:51 boom done 16:51:55 nothing else to it 16:52:11 lf94: the implementation is fairly complicated 16:52:18 because when you pattern match on a GADT, you refine its type 16:52:25 what matters is how to use it. 16:52:27 and this can be used on the RHS 16:52:40 iirc, GHC had to add type equalities as another kind of typeclass-ish constraint 16:52:40 kmc what is the implementation of quantum mechanics? 16:52:45 (a ~ b) => ... 16:52:48 lf94: this is of some debate 16:52:57 but also it is philosophical in nature 16:53:25 It's very nice to understand the inner workings of anything 16:53:36 but in many cases, you need to understand the usage of the thing 16:55:00 sure 16:55:10 I thought that arseniiv was asking about implementation 16:55:14 because they mentioned desugaring 16:55:30 iirc the features needed to typecheck those equality constraints are also needed for type families 16:55:36 gadt can accomplish a lot of the same things 16:55:40 GADTs are neat though 16:55:52 they get you a lot of the power associated with dependently typed languages 16:56:07 and allow you to implement much more correctenss properties in the type system 16:56:45 when using Haskell as a metalangauge, it allows to put the object language's type system into the haskell type system 16:59:45 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 17:02:27 lf94: hehe no, GADTs are trickier than simply adding a parameter. For example a DSL for simple expressions: 17:02:27 data Expr a where 17:02:27 Num :: Int -> Expr Int 17:02:27 Add :: Expr Int -> Expr Int -> Expr Int 17:02:27 Eq :: Expr Int -> Expr Int -> Expr Bool 17:02:28 IfThenElse :: Expr Bool -> Expr a -> Expr a -> Expr a 17:02:28 we couldn’t write something as refined by using plain ADTs where we only can return `Expr a`, not `Expr Int` or `Expr Bool` 17:03:24 yeah 17:03:40 iirc, GHC had to add type equalities as another kind of typeclass-ish constraint => yeah, I was talking about that precisely :) 17:03:41 there are weird ways to do it without GADTs 17:03:44 but they're not as nice 17:03:53 arseniiv: I forgot the name but there's a paper on basically how they did it 17:04:11 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:06:23 but in many cases, you need to understand the usage of the thing => I join with kmc, surely, though ultimately an average human like me learns not by discovering representation nor by grasping API but by many many examples; how are these generated in each case is another question 17:08:21 kmc: hm I can’t remember what I read too, why GADTs impl was even mentioned there, it seems that was a text on another topic 17:11:44 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:12:36 ah I remembered: http://dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/#gadts-1 17:15:48 somewhat cluttered but there are lots of useful notes someone may have overlooked 17:16:05 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:32:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:37:10 -!- imode has joined. 17:38:05 arseniiv: your perspective is refreshing. 17:44:15 also happy halloween. 17:44:24 feed your jack-o-lanterns plenty of fire. 17:52:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:58:57 imode: some years ago, I made an imrovised jack-o-lantern from a clementine and a clever(?) lighting 17:58:58 happy halloween 17:59:02 lol 17:59:16 maybe I’ll find it and post a link 18:00:25 arseniiv: tiny pumpkin! 18:01:02 arseniiv: that sounds cool 18:02:35 imode: lf94: kmc: here: https://i.postimg.cc/5t3RY22v/DSC-1154.jpg 18:03:14 as you see it wasn’t carved too deep but has a charming grin 18:03:16 it's so happy. ;~; 18:05:08 very very happy 18:05:19 I ate it after some time and was too 18:05:24 hahaha 18:05:26 so nice 18:20:31 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:39:05 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:04:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:06:10 -!- imode has joined. 19:10:35 shachaf: OK I looked at the fmt.h now. I think that the "c" format should not use UTF-8 and that UTF-8 should be a separate format (perhaps "u"). 19:13:19 zzo38: definitely not u, that's already used. I recommend c with some prefix, like lc or Lc or qc 19:15:51 I started working on the disassembler for real, in Java 19:15:59 and I've got something set up for now 19:16:06 +>+[>>>>[-]++++++++++ 19:16:10 is getting translated back into 19:16:10 ; -> frs 19:16:11 ; -> imc r1 19:16:11 ; -> imm r1 += 10 19:16:33 just to note, these are not the formal asm2bf/bfasm instructions, just the building blocks the other part of disassembler will take care of 19:16:43 if I went ahead with 19:16:53 kspalaiologos: that has an unbalanced bracket 19:16:57 `` asm2bf <<<"mov r2, 0" 19:16:58 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: asm2bf: command not found 19:17:05 b_jonas, yes, that's right 19:17:11 but there are a lot of assumptions now 19:17:16 because of early stage of the program 19:17:22 b_jonas: Yes, that would do. Yes, you are right, but fmt.h does not use the "u" format for anything, or most other formats supported by printf(). 19:17:28 `` bfasm <<<"mov r2, 0" 19:17:29 ​+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>[-]<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<] 19:17:34 perfect 19:17:44 so this will get translated to some longer code because most isn't yet implemented 19:17:56 so instead of outputting mov r2, 0 it would output something like 19:18:26 frs, imc t1, mov 19:18:35 so a lot of data isn't preserved by now 19:19:25 btw, I remember that I've added a newline preserving wrapper over bfasm, but it seems like somebody has removed it 19:19:28 `? bfasm 19:19:29 bfasm is the brainfuck assembler. Documentation and samples: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/asmbf/master/doc/bfasm.doc 19:19:33 `? asmbf 19:19:34 Wrapper around bfasm, that automatically converts slashes to newlines and feeds it into original compiler 19:19:49 nevermind, I named it the other way round 19:21:03 kspalaiologos: name thme both bfasm, but use the ! framework for the wrapper one? 19:21:31 also, I think I'm not esoteric enough because I don't see the point of a brainfuck disassembler 19:21:52 well, I made a brainfuck assembler once 19:21:55 and it's listed here as bfasm 19:22:03 but now, I've got a few programs with the source code lost 19:22:07 yes, I sort of understand the assembler 19:22:15 and I can reverse engineer them by hand to check how are they made 19:22:18 ah 19:22:20 but for 40+ programs it takes too much time 19:22:29 so I'm trying to write something to help me out 19:22:34 ok, that is an esoteric enough goal 19:22:48 that presumes, I dumped all the assembly source code with my trash and it's long gone by now lol 19:24:04 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:28:37 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:30:50 zzo38: It could also be {c|u} or something else. 19:31:19 shachaf: Yes, that could be another possibility I suppose 19:31:24 I defined a show() macro so I can type show(x) to print out the type-aware value of x and also the variable name. 19:31:27 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:31:27 So convenient. 19:46:31 Now I released ZZ Zero (although it is incomplete): http://zzo38computer.org/prog/zzzero.zip I also set up a NNTP to discuss it. 19:50:17 what's this beauty 19:55:32 Do you mean the file I linked to? It is ZZ Zero; the read me file explains it. 20:18:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:20:50 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:27:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:37:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:40:11 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:49:11 [[User talk:Zzo38]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66900&oldid=65855 * Moon * (+52) /* Dottyweb? */ new section 20:49:29 [[User talk:Zzo38]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66901&oldid=66900 * Moon * (+76) i am a derp who forgot to sign 20:56:07 -!- imode has joined. 21:20:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:31:37 -!- imode has joined. 21:37:43 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:06 rust tempts me once again. 21:40:44 I shouldn't use it. every year or so I get tempted to. 21:46:29 I completed writing out the definition of generalized Minsky machine, at last 21:47:53 it ended up pretty natural, though match+destruct commands end up with quite many arguments 21:49:16 generalized minsky machine, huh? 21:51:37 for example a machine for { data Nat = Z | S Nat; data List = Nil | Cons Nat } would have following commands (`−t` input register of type t, `+t` output register of type t, `s` state): 21:51:37 Z +Nat s; S −Nat +Nat s; Nat −Nat s +Nat s; Nil +List s; Cons −Nat −List +List s; List −List s +Nat +List s 21:51:50 ah. 21:51:53 neat. 21:52:13 imode: yeah, its instruction set is based on several possibly interdependent algebraic types 21:52:18 Why does arin.ga doesn't works now? 21:54:11 s/Cons Nat/Cons Nat List 21:59:40 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:10:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:14:44 -!- imode has joined. 22:27:50 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:36:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:44:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:27:36 -!- imode has joined. 23:30:13 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).