< 1568505673 84823 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adytfhcdxephwocg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1568506293 269821 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1568506466 865600 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1568506667 648016 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1568506757 446296 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a flow operation? < 1568506783 355951 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1568506793 944591 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that if, while, switch type? < 1568506831 183340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are usually called "control flow". I don't know what "flow operation" means. < 1568506865 837250 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1568506918 995738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "control" is the important word because a lot of Haskell libraries are named "Control" something in this sense, without mentioning flow < 1568506937 646716 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1568507007 558734 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :in debugging, i found problems at the very core of the echidna language. < 1568507032 75207 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i've never tried breaking out of a loop before < 1568507052 520459 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not immediately ending < 1568507095 304986 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be precise, the implementation of the core < 1568507119 197410 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568507133 956770 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1568507140 350539 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: ah, I never really looked at that part of the interpreter code < 1568507160 275121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cared more about the arithmetic stuff < 1568507166 487651 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if/while loops < 1568507203 956803 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, Samus got bitten by a radioactive baby metroid in the ending of Super Metroid, and since then she has super metroid powers and metroid sense and metroid DNA in his body? < 1568507214 740347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they invent such a story? < 1568507233 488533 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexx < 1568507245 409132 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: xev's origin < 1568507255 442395 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how < 1568507338 287077 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, no, that's not it < 1568507345 183344 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's spiderman < 1568507360 100707 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about astral travel? < 1568507367 295059 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you choose such name < 1568507376 253596 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can code be astral? < 1568507391 606113 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1568507398 404343 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name < 1568507403 466663 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :for? < 1568507406 831169 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric < 1568507438 366954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: just look at regular expressions; they're full of stars < 1568507440 502694 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages < 1568507468 113075 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both gays and esoteric code is a fail :) < 1568507474 321230 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for not been able to use own name < 1568507503 471216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also worth noting that "esoteric" has nothing to do with stars. < 1568507543 751170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric, 'from Greek esoterikos "belonging to an inner circle" (Lucian), from esotero "more within,"' < 1568507544 748573 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not call it language nr 23 :D < 1568507581 407955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like stars. < 1568507628 23245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like shooting stars? Nah, that's a lie, I don't like shooting at all. < 1568507641 972012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: Unicode characters can be astral if it is more than 0xFFFF < 1568507661 70110 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not obviously related, how come shifting awareness outside body is tricky/ < 1568507685 495807 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well programming is fun also < 1568507689 183801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? * < 1568507690 408711 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twinkle, twinkle, little star! < 1568507704 459979 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :star rats < 1568507705 460493 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1568507733 611131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about shifting awareness outside body, and I doubt anyone else on here does. I am not even sure if it is possible < 1568507752 906318 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible < 1568507753 826970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My awareness is not inside my body in the first place, so it's impossible to shift it out. < 1568507798 868040 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when u carry bottle of vodka and your are alcoholic and all shops are closed... < 1568507810 447854 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is your awareness? D: < 1568507826 60473 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with body we are bodyholics :) < 1568507834 228142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "where is your awareness" is not so clear what it is, to me < 1568507849 896436 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bodyholics anon :) < 1568507851 347090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I'm a utilityholic. < 1568507858 155161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm addicted to utility. I just can't get enough. < 1568507900 400507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Does that make you a tool... < 1568507977 764649 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 well when you code you are a code :) < 1568508007 707311 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that you are can be some physical object but we are not accustomed and perhaps scared of such intimate encounters < 1568508027 768335 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta go afk for a bit. < 1568508050 688755 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to bodyholicm :) if I am a laptop i cant be 6`1 green eyes human perhaps, i wont be able to come back :P < 1568508135 441109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm capable of being both of those things at once. < 1568508210 229313 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 < 1568508241 130910 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf so as a laptop what do you feel when humans type on you? :) < 1568508305 327925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think sometimes you might be unaware < 1568508325 474513 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time < 1568508341 749841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or only partially aware < 1568508376 383791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only fungot is constantly aware < 1568508376 628285 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: fnord/ doc/ fnord/ dp/ 0262681374/ fnord/ fnord ( the red dot is where the final return value is a list < 1568508377 468948 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say 100% unaware < 1568508420 285585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :0262681374 unlocks the gate to the gold mine < 1568508443 206213 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :midas did try < 1568508465 490357 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although midas myth is so fake < 1568508480 296678 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was touching Earth while walking < 1568508487 328796 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so entire planet would be gold :P < 1568508508 980361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose, nobody can ever be fully aware, because that seems to be a violation of law of physics < 1568508523 680261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof: Yes, of course, but that is how stories are written. < 1568508559 849177 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep and physics is a story < 1568508987 377580 :cocof!9f94ba19@159.148.186.25 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568510045 988424 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568510079 528971 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric < 1568510601 549786 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that did not just work. < 1568510613 853322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one didn't work? < 1568510617 785555 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no freakin' way. < 1568510653 27355 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just implemented the common 'pick' operation.. < 1568510851 789595 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hatebin.com/jgkozrchae < 1568510894 676559 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows you to reach back into the stack to "pick" out an item. < 1568510946 872210 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e clone it. > 1568511031 124558 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66171&oldid=66170 5* 03Ais523 5* (-527) 10Undo revision 66170 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]): please stop provoking people, or you may end up blocked again < 1568512342 905953 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk to you later < 1568512402 677575 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1568515313 841253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Subtyping Machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66172 5* 03Ais523 5* (+11621) 10document a language (although, this time, it wasn't me who created it) < 1568515765 109728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like PostScript Z-machine? < 1568517114 550846 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do rather enjoy PostScript, haven't written anything in Z-machine assembly though. < 1568517158 816004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever write a implementation of Z-machine, though? < 1568517178 840272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did so, in C, JavaScript, Glulx, and now also PostScript.) < 1568517251 211606 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not. never had a desire to. < 1568517481 578488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, mine are some of the only few that implement small-endian (as well as big-endian) (except the one with Glulx, which implements only big-endian Z-machine). Some implementations at least check the endianness and refuse to run small-endian story files, which is OK. But some fail to even check such thing. < 1568517597 904279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one of them I wrote, includes a debugger, too. < 1568517628 123539 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode2: What programs have you written in PostScript, then? < 1568517631 494801 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm impressed you did it in postscript.. < 1568517653 634664 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually haven't written any usable programs, just small snippets. < 1568517656 802288 :imode2!~imode@unaffiliated/imode NICK :imode < 1568517667 567552 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda funny, I guess. < 1568517710 890108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What small snippets? < 1568517749 500063 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff you write when you're initially learning postscript and other concatenative languages. factorial and fibonacci and such. < 1568517783 390057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1568517857 722505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a JSON parser in PostScript also, and then after I posted it to comp.lang.postscript, someone else also made another JSON parser in PostScript. < 1568517893 525433 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568517941 520306 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. < 1568517944 74322 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1568517984 114826 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I just realized is that I can actually store _arrays_ in the queue in a linear format.. < 1568518015 602238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you elaborate on that? < 1568518052 135767 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm building a little queue-based language, i.e a language who's primary work area is a cyclical queue. < 1568518074 144813 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to make it reasonably close to something like Forth. < 1568518117 364061 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1568518173 920460 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Once you have enough of it written, you can mention the document and then we can read < 1568518343 683991 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1568518464 263011 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://repl.it/repls/WrongJauntyRectangle < 1568518505 756803 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 169 is the actual program you're running when you hit "run". < 1568518765 547658 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :using things like 'pick' as an "indexing" operator, along with length-prefixed sections of the queue, you could implement arrays. > 1568519097 734303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deklare14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=66173 5* 03A 5* (+274) 10Created page with "[[Deklare]] is a language where variables are initialized before they are declared. ==Example==
 a=b=c # a, b, and c are the same value. d=e=f # d, e, and f are the same..."
> 1568519144 72730 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deklare14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66174&oldid=66173 5* 03A 5* (+102) 10
> 1568519367 949458 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deklare14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66175&oldid=66174 5* 03A 5* (+119) 10
> 1568519430 529167 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Deklare14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66176&oldid=66175 5* 03A 5* (+138) 10
< 1568519651 873446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568519682 650374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my latest bit of esolanging ridiculousness: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/192843
< 1568519703 69588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, a non-referral link! So convenient.
< 1568519882 917325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me, it's a pain to edit the referral out
< 1568519914 416688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you only need to do it once, and you save n other people the work.
< 1568519917 442079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, the SE devs don't seem to appreciate that a referral link might be viewed negatively
< 1568520022 341412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the referral link mostly impacts the person who posted it (your most popular referral links are shown on your profile)
< 1568520051 290932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try not to click on referral links as some sort of principle.
< 1568520092 416601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection
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< 1568520171 639875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've switched from compiling my thing with gcc to tcc by default, because it's so much faster.
< 1568520180 417315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people put up with slow compilers?
< 1568520325 255344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on how much time the compiler saves me in a) debugging code and/or b) executing the program
< 1568520356 834513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the time cost of the compile
< 1568520388 169572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my case, I get really upset if the output asm is obviously suboptimal, which makes it hard to use any compiler atm, but I think most people aren't the same way
< 1568520412 129279 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean -O0 compilation, of course.
< 1568520467 210621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you compile your program many times and run it briefly, you should count the total time spent on optimizing against the time saved by generating better code.
< 1568520509 450409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need quite a lot of optimization to offset 500ms extra of compilation time.
< 1568520706 558692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this depends on what sort of programs you run?
< 1568520730 162578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically if I'm using a compiled language, I expect the program to run for several minutes
< 1568520747 866438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd have written it in a different language
< 1568520799 721362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or it might be a library, but in that case I'm going to be running tests on it, and my best use of time wrt testing is normally to write an exhaustive test or a fuzzer, both of which benefit hugely from speed)
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> 1568525145 157051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Category:Deque-based14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66177&oldid=14068 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+24) 10
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> 1568525423 165963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Pxem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66178&oldid=66069 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+348) 10/* This language should be one of deque languages */ new section
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< 1568530815 943746 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :really getting used to working in a queue-based language. with some primitive operations, it's as natural as working in a stack-based language.
< 1568530909 262748 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the added benefit that "impure" operations like `pick` and `roll` can be implemented in the language itself. still trying to figure out how to do things like swapping.
< 1568531100 80500 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :'swap' is unique in that it changes the order of the first two queue elements... hm.
< 1568531146 163230 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that only with `dup`, `roll`, `last` and `drop` is my goal.
< 1568531255 895695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this related to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Call_Queue ?
< 1568531262 808705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted a language with a call queue once.
< 1568531264 363873 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, my own language.
< 1568531270 466974 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no call queue, but a data queue.
< 1568531308 559686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1568531318 39524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I never thought about the fact that Forth has a separate call stack.
< 1568531321 681263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's obvious.
< 1568531336 96425 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, only reason it's TC.
< 1568531350 13161 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and the fact that it has access to main memory. but strip that away, that's the only way.
< 1568531359 626309 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://repl.it/repls/PoorUnevenDeskscan
< 1568531373 335061 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 163 onward.
< 1568531425 252316 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter has a few bugs (conditional, mainly, because I'm too lazy to implement an 'if' macro.)
< 1568531652 306687 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to experiment with a call queue, though. I had something like it with Modal, but that's because it was based on term rewriting, i.e the whole program was stored in a queue and rewrote itself.
< 1568531729 352528 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine if you allow manipulation of the call queue via words (like Forth does with the return stack), you can use it as a stack.
< 1568531757 898635 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568532193 281920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I don't think so, because forth can also pick the data stack
< 1568532270 373948 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true. can also roll it.
< 1568532333 712797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1568532792 853039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: factorial and fibonacci => I prefer catalan numbers, see http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/catalan.ps
< 1568532811 72139 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider `pick` and `roll` to be pure, though.
< 1568532836 723488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even does the calculations in postscript
< 1568532849 698350 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, neat
< 1568532855 639441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why, that must have been inconvenient, I wouldn't have made it that way if I had to today
< 1568533062 413178 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocof => no, you're forgetting that Midas was a rich king, so he didn't walk anywhere, he was carried by his servants in a hand-lifted palanquin, and had carpets everywhere, presumably even in the toilet
< 1568533195 86307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, even if coding in postscript is stupid, the lesson that it shows of how handshakes correspond to triangulations, is a useful one
< 1568533207 624353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a nontrivial bijection
< 1568533226 240726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth to try to prove it without looking at the code, by looking at the output only
< 1568533708 813047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-17.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1568535031 487788 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66179&oldid=66153 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+254) 10/* Any features to insert mathematical formulas like TeX style? */ new section
< 1568535299 847121 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1568535754 566623 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66180&oldid=44645 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+235) 10added some descriptions, though not done yet
< 1568537823 45142 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568538659 552646 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568538842 877107 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1568544107 525192 :FraterEST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1568546950 975737 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1568549638 851661 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568550096 951161 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmupgrrlqafnaqgh JOIN :#esoteric
> 1568550295 222391 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66181&oldid=66178 5* 03A 5* (+111) 10/* This language should be one of deque languages */
> 1568550310 44795 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Pxem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66182&oldid=66181 5* 03A 5* (+151) 10
< 1568550620 519504 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1568551866 767660 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568553641 890902 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568553670 530209 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh...bugs are so annoying
< 1568554705 663195 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568555425 961937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568556411 841457 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1568557704 542773 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568558465 117602 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568558568 349253 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1568558973 451751 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay!
< 1568559024 635590 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on...how long have i been debugging?
< 1568559570 56735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: do you have an updated version of the formatted docs?
< 1568559587 546679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why does echidna have so many instructions now? 
< 1568559816 612236 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1568559977 480190 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1) About to make it. 2) Everything not under "S" is added to avoid bugs.
< 1568560052 517203 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) i gotta make sure of something...
< 1568560115 132725 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :good.
< 1568560151 808461 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna make the formatted docs for 0.11a0 in a moment
< 1568560279 676589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: this is strange, haven't you changed how addressing modes work so that you write `@0000` to either read from the first word of memory or write to it? the instruction docs seem to suggest it's still the older way, where you say `@0000` to read from the first word and `=0000` to write into it
< 1568560419 850088 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 10a2?
< 1568560436 872920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so the previous M operation is gone
< 1568560456 986381 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to fix it in the 11a0 doc
< 1568560469 152363 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need all these many-argument bitwise thingies? can't you just have four simple ones that take two input arguments and one output like the rest of the arithmetic does?
< 1568560501 697358 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun
< 1568560624 56305 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody else does it, but maybe someone should
< 1568560714 315352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :erk, these control instructions are getting more complicated
< 1568560720 431557 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked while they were simple
< 1568560730 800119 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568560803 807281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given that the language doesn't seem to have any easy way to avoid the if-block statements
< 1568560809 769244 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1568560833 24858 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean?
< 1568560860 858148 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i add next time around?
< 1568560867 101372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you now  have 32-bit arithmetic builtins? but they work in a somewhat strange way
< 1568560894 303809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really need them to take separate addresses for the low and high bytes, as opposed to always reading from two adjacent addresses?
< 1568560946 521057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no 32-bit move... interesting
< 1568561042 155389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor any signed compare or 32-bit compare, so you'll use three or four comparisons for that, fun
< 1568561061 363986 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't even use the bitwise instructions to help anymore, because they're so long
< 1568561089 100357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can still use subtract, then it only takes two subtractions and one compare to do a 16-bit signed comparison
< 1568561153 720298 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can always recode afteer i'm done with the documentation
< 1568561657 364702 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i no longer need to rely on L and M, but I like them. I plan on making AND, OR, XOR, and NOT instructions for both 16-bit and 32-bit in the next version. I'll also take your advice into consideration.
< 1568561838 988347 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568561990 607840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1568562011 162355 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend AND, OR, XOR, ANDC instead
< 1568562027 209348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the traditional AND, OR, XOR, NOT also works
< 1568562062 692844 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's andc?
< 1568562085 918570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: AND with the right input argument complemented
< 1568562090 430692 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :notted
< 1568562101 979952 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1568562125 382758 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1568562136 382620 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that one
< 1568562146 221339 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568562239 549031 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568562984 44281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: it would have been easy if you just kept the previous version of M (or was it L?) that takes only one extra argument and that one can only be one of 16 possibilities
< 1568563006 498768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just think of that as 16 instructions with a two-character opcode in the source code
< 1568563048 615948 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1568563132 720984 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not, because that would give too many instructions total, but you could fix that by restricting the addressing modes in all instructions in general
< 1568563253 896066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do it the opposite way: add post-increment and pre-decrement addressing modes, allow all 100 combinations to each arithmetic and bitwise instruction :-)
< 1568563960 969266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what is your favorite flavor of ice cream, and what is your favourite flavour of ice cream?
< 1568563961 99539 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: postgresql for database.
< 1568563968 653155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bad favorite, yes
< 1568564204 434907 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the end goal behind echidna?
< 1568564286 600168 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :to create a programmable console-based language
< 1568564294 493960 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean...
< 1568564313 867345 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :a console-based language i can program in
< 1568564352 347456 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun
< 1568564361 908549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I think it's for learning or something
< 1568564470 451628 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"console-based language"?
< 1568564538 140098 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i don't want a gui
< 1568564880 771465 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a0.pdf
< 1568564896 349352 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568565023 201101 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568565115 8616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1568565123 594756 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, now you changed the comparison conditionals?
< 1568565139 88522 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to
< 1568565158 7109 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were bugs with the original system
< 1568565221 382614 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1568565228 578298 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1568565739 315303 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one more change planned for that. I want to be able to call subs indirectly
< 1568565866 96921 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the language looks a lot different than it used to
< 1568566066 96259 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you were saying something about possibly having too many instructions?
< 1568566078 589755 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand
< 1568566113 150729 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I'd still recommend you to find all subroutine starts once, when loading the program, make a table of their names and addresses in source code, ideally sort it too, 
< 1568566147 70982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make the subroutine calls just look up sub names there, rather than reading the whole source
< 1568566172 743534 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, just not sure how to do that
< 1568566216 215807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: first do it without the sorting
< 1568566226 677734 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :still
< 1568566246 174199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that helps because there are much fewer subs than source code characters
< 1568566324 812255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :read through the source code, find all the sub heading statements, as you find them, put them in successive entries of a table that stores the name of the sub and its offset in the source code array
< 1568566413 983853 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this benefit?
< 1568566425 207026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a subroutine call, read through the names in that table until you find a matching name,
< 1568566442 896502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then go to the offset in the source code given in that table
< 1568566479 362560 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're only reading through a smaller table rather than the source code which has lots of instructions that aren't sub headings
< 1568566585 987734 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a good idea to have the name of the sub, when called, be in memory as a possible option, as in indirectly?
< 1568566645 172119 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1568566650 789537 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...the table would have to be 128 KiB for that to work...
< 1568566666 565997 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to 512 bytes
< 1568566729 543772 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568566745 182705 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what do you recommend?
< 1568567030 980671 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 256 subs too few?
< 1568567100 630259 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, too few
< 1568567186 807513 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :65536?
< 1568567504 503266 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna have to move some letters around again
< 1568567985 385452 :hermez!~hermes30@31.221.147.202 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1568570686 495327 :hermez!~hermes30@31.221.147.202 QUIT :
< 1568572203 877714 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568572263 772494 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprised that there's very little literature on queue machines vs. stack machines.
< 1568572304 64997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: well there are tag systems :)
< 1568572334 394596 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :queues are awkward, except when used as pipes between various stages of a process.
< 1568572344 211405 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, yeah, but I mean actual, y'know, processors.
< 1568572353 544136 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find them pretty natural actually. it's weird.
< 1568572429 49303 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Oh have you found the Mill architecture? Its "belt" is a sort of queue.
< 1568572459 545907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568572460 618085 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of it, isn't that the one with the rolling register file?
< 1568572480 844702 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e a few spots down from the head of the queue are directly addressible?
< 1568572527 15483 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I do not know much about that architecture; I'm not convinced it's practical; and I have no clue whether they will ever produce real hardware. I'm really rather skeptical about it.)
< 1568572539 336450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I'd think the whole (finite) queue is addressable.
< 1568572546 892522 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was my gist as well when I saw it... also, ech.
< 1568572596 969696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The belt is a cute idea. But one cute idea doesn't make a processor. :)
< 1568572655 118752 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some literature on using queue machines to evaluate expressions in parallel via partitioning the dependency graph between expressions. it looks like a lot of the literature around queue machines is locked up in datalow architectures.
< 1568572658 695584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mill has a whole bunch of cute ideas!
< 1568572660 689852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Real CPUs probably end up doing something similar... via register renaming.)
< 1568572669 237136 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there are register windows and stuff.
< 1568572675 748179 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never really see that though.
< 1568572719 814495 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp datalow
< 1568572722 36654 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1568572735 118952 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, dataflow. missed an f.
< 1568572775 931769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Yeah, but that didn't stop me from wondering what a datalow could be... I mean, given the channel and all.
< 1568572793 323087 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha, good point.
< 1568573073 699682 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if you're curious, https://repl.it/repls/SparklingHealthyArraylist
< 1568573077 48005 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's a huge hole in my knowledge about modern processors when it comes to assessing the viability of that Mill architecture... namely, I don't know how much of the parallelism that superscalar CPUs discover dynamically can actually be determined statically.
< 1568573098 184411 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a queue-based Forth-like.
< 1568573114 438694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes, I'd also like to know the answer to that question.
< 1568573152 778996 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 'pick' actually works, by the by. `5 range 3 $ pick` yields you `4 1 2 3 4 5 0`
< 1568573180 729523 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably eliminate `roll`, too.
< 1568573230 493272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think they had a claimed number which was pretty high and maybe cited some paper for it?
< 1568573236 445634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who actually knows.
< 1568573317 223929 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bug in `range` (and subsequently, `factorial-recursive`) that causes it to clobber the queue when generating the range and then performing the multiplications.
< 1568573334 365496 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it with a bare queue and it's fine, but do it with some work already done and it breaks. I was lazy.
< 1568573364 571698 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: sub table works
< 1568573515 897091 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm rather skeptical mainly because I imagine that it involves predicting the level of the memory hierarchy that data resides in. that may work for some inner loops... but oftentimes it will just not be possible.
< 1568573534 875957 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :indirect sub calls should work, though i haven't tested them
< 1568573569 661511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: that's not really what I said, but sure, if you want a dense array indexed by name, you can do that, it just gets uglier to write programs because you can't give more descriptive names to the subs
< 1568573582 338299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe they (the Mill people) expect that some prefetching instructions will work for that?
< 1568573604 848642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: have you at least made sure that it gives some sort of error if you try to call a nonexistant sub?
< 1568573623 337028 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts at the beginning
< 1568573651 755910 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add one
< 1568574042 963488 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i change the bitwise to just ADD, ADDC, OR, XOR?
< 1568574123 245472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: that's what I suggest, but it's your choice really, you're the one who's going to use this language
< 1568574258 147145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was looking for a reference but all the information is in multi-hour videos so it's hopeless.
< 1568575047 641525 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1568576056 899792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think they should write a text rather than trying to make most stuff as videos instead.
< 1568576091 684870 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1568576114 795213 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're gonna love the new M? command
< 1568576168 978108 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's sarcasm
< 1568577086 84925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I agree.
< 1568578790 387842 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1.pdf
< 1568579165 202727 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap
< 1568579181 364223 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i messed something up
< 1568579852 743112 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568579854 866561 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1a.pdf
< 1568579892 236577 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone hacked EOS 
< 1568579898 302547 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gained 110,000 usd :)
< 1568579923 104640 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://cointelegraph.com/news/hacker-spends-1k-to-win-over-110k-in-eos-betting-game-using-rex
< 1568579977 223442 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1568580308 731984 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568580421 3392 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1a.pdf fixed
< 1568580560 957211 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1568581174 652379 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmupgrrlqafnaqgh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1568581898 695115 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Quit: Hugs~ <3
< 1568583909 980507 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568585343 780811 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lymia
< 1568586022 173548 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so quiet...
< 1568586031 144631 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1568586040 729369 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is life good
< 1568586041 290092 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc
< 1568586058 605546 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm depressed
< 1568586077 281263 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry
< 1568586080 829609 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling down as well
< 1568586082 815084 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers hugs
< 1568586122 73353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :higan
< 1568586143 65145 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1568586191 770265 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone want to look at the hopefully fixed version of Echidna? i'm not in the mood to make changes right now
< 1568586297 699772 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what defines an esoteric language?
< 1568586314 563871 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1568586317 399454 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its simple
< 1568586330 590209 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric is a veil
< 1568586351 761090 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1568586353 290446 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do u need it?
< 1568586380 568844 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bunch of symbols
< 1568586397 577428 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic 
< 1568586531 608273 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a language?
< 1568586565 767317 :cocof!b9e41393@185.228.19.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :native tongue
< 1568586641 698266 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I'd say it's a language whose primary design goal is to be fun, interesting, weird, and/or frustrating, rather than anything "practical"
< 1568586658 697181 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I would exclude "serious" research languages even though "interesting" is arguably the goal there
< 1568586678 122105 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit hard to say
< 1568586682 791467 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my Qoppa an esolang
< 1568586696 944656 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twas made as a demonstration of how tiny you can make a scheme-like language using fexprs
< 1568586720 918560 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no special forms, only 3 eval cases, only a handful of built-ins)
< 1568586727 451955 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got cited in a couple of papers
< 1568586733 177196 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1568586739 652167 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's kind of based on someone's PhD thesis
< 1568586807 188497 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I sometimes say that C++ (and especially C++ template metaprogramming) is an esolang because it has that same bizarre mind-twisting nature, but by accident
< 1568586832 774757 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in exploit programming you frequently encounter "found esolangs" as well
< 1568586841 547364 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as alphanumeric-only x86 code
< 1568586884 997169 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echidna is just for fun and to releive boredom. I tend not to care about consistancy between pushes to the repo.
< 1568586900 780612 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or programs stitched together from an arbitrary collection of ROP gadgets
< 1568586919 921529 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool
< 1568586969 656188 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might use what i learn from making it to make something more usable
< 1568586981 750567 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consistant
< 1568587015 717054 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1568587116 238889 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got annoyed with only having 20 ops, so i made subops.
< 1568587125 329638 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(G-Z)
< 1568587168 458954 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the found esolangs are sometimes called "weird machines" in infosec
< 1568587183 480713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc
< 1568587184 781580 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did not run the International Devious Code Contest of 2013.
< 1568587192 122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this wisdom entry is somewhat underwhelming
< 1568587193 57904 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF unwinding info could be considered another example
< 1568587253 220972 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people design file formats to have a certain type of flexibility
< 1568587258 267367 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: or https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Subtyping_Machine as a found esolang
< 1568587271 723190 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they often don't consider whether it allows nontrivial computation
< 1568587277 509908 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :within the format parser
< 1568587349 173073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF has unwinding info?
< 1568587350 423212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I like to do obfuscated code in non-esoteric languages, to point out interesting features of those languages, like https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395
< 1568587390 543238 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it has to have unwinding info so that you can throw and catch exceptions through multiple compilation units
< 1568587524 991122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is pretty esoteric.
< 1568587541 230076 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's why this sort of thing is easier in perl
< 1568587884 529792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is DWARF?
< 1568587990 888892 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of... http://wiki.dwarfstd.org/index.php?title=Exception_Handling#Relationship_with_DWARF
< 1568588010 894825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's DWARF-like but not DWARF.
< 1568588016 196673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly.
< 1568588028 507695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't use C++ this is irrelevant, right?
< 1568588081 105949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be used by other languages?
< 1568588087 481725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows.
< 1568588134 785425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all algorithms should be named after the Unicode code point that looks most visually similar to their execution graph.
< 1568588219 579392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that there might not be such a code point. Sometimes there might be one in another character set, but, there might not be a suitable character in another character set either. And, sometimes two algorithm will have a similar execution graph, and then it is same name and that is no good, either. So, I think it won't work
< 1568588310 334124 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Rust uses it
< 1568588313 340653 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other things
< 1568588321 219858 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's even exception support for C as a GNU extension?
< 1568588326 349396 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though generally unwinding thru C code is UB
< 1568588397 932327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for panic!, I guess.
< 1568588462 80546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like panic should maybe just be longjmp.
< 1568588463 997786 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568588484 169032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Rust is all about resource cleanups, though.
< 1568588642 889350 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1568588729 974606 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1ca:86a1:17f6:f647 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1568589460 792879 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1568589680 675631 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1a_1.pdf very minor formatting change
< 1568589834 361348 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :
< 1568590069 584690 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-94.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1568590667 341811 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/Echidna%20v0_11a1a_2.pdf a different change
< 1568590729 112013 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that one's correct
< 1568590768 54643 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a typo in the previous one
< 1568590883 471196 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, a thread is supposed to be able to clean up as it panics
< 1568590953 76843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :longlongjmp
< 1568590998 131291 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :another typo
< 1568591001 729812 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed
< 1568591036 192210 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just overwrote the pdf with the new one
< 1568591103 491213 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqxrsxntviojkihj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1568591333 665586 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed the source typo