< 1567728000 125964 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do they fight some other animal then? < 1567728144 939212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. For us, the preliminary examination result is a statement that either you can defend as-is (pretty rare), requires minor revisions (most common; something you can do in a few weeks and doesn't need a full recheck) or requires major revisions (expected to take months, needs to be resubmitted for a full re-examination). < 1567728169 977770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, pretty similar as how journal paper reviews go. < 1567728183 273673 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiyz1IYEFtI marathon speedrun of a Game Boy Advance game, the problem being that the game requires motion controls, but on that console, recording the video output and motion controls are hard to do at the same time < 1567728310 329300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: here it's anywhere from "no corrections" (never happens in practice), "minor corrections" (3 months, a very common result, it's what my PhD had), "major corrections" (6 months, situations where the corrections may require new maths), "resubmit" (1 year, it means serious problems with the original but they'll give you another chance), equivalents of all those for a lesser degree ("this isn't PhD-worthy but it is worth a Masters' degree"), and < 1567728311 800053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :outright rejection < 1567728424 579874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How commonly do PhD candidates not already have a Masters' degree? < 1567728430 929113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there one for greater degrees too, where the thesis is so impressed they decided that the candidate is chosen to become dictator for life on the spot? < 1567728448 945879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd guess ones who come from the US might not have one < 1567728456 34216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :their system is weird < 1567728482 191382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well there's nothing preventing you getting /two/ Masters' degrees, although that might not be a preferred outcome < 1567728517 892564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here too a master's degree is technically not a requirement for the thesis, you only need it in practice because that's the only way you can get a scholarship that lets you do research and study to be able to write a thesis < 1567728532 933678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transportation for life, and then to be fined forty pound. < 1567728560 294609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but they can't just award a master's degree, right? they can only award the thesis part, while the candidate would need to satisfy all the other requirements too < 1567728578 347252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Masters by research" is a recognised qualification, that can be done off just a single thesis < 1567728590 436031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, should I go to graduate school? < 1567728596 504182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PhD thesis would in theory qualify for it but normally you'd want the PhD instead < 1567728609 787205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: where are you? the US? probably not, you're highly likely to be overcharged < 1567728626 711374 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://www.xkcd.com/498/ < 1567728664 730800 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have a masters? < 1567728686 19040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd was pretty different back then < 1567728697 128623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm in the US but presumably I could go anywhere. < 1567728704 868818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't. < 1567728712 498389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: would you like to get a job for which a PhD degree is a strong advantage, which are mostly jobs at a university or at state-sponsored research institutes? < 1567728735 319984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1567728759 340779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. I recommend reading SMBC, which is still similar to what xkcd used to be like in its classic era < 1567728763 232322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another fact is that I don't have a bachelor's degree. < 1567728776 495871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only more colorful < 1567728812 909372 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that part is easier to fix < 1567728818 441152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1567728827 43361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1567728837 989407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's easier to get a bachelors degree than a masters degree < 1567728859 146881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't really like old xkcd; I don't normally like new xkcd either but sometimes it's very good < 1567728876 431124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which of the new ones do you like? < 1567728930 928275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before the current one was fairly good < 1567728938 506787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one that's slightly older that was better but I can't remember which one < 1567728959 690092 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Show? dunno, I don't much like that one < 1567728976 999146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, https://xkcd.com/2189/ is very good < 1567728990 493257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is mostly observational humour, so I mostly enjoy it when the observation is interesting / thought-provoking < 1567729008 323545 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not my style either, but ok < 1567729020 379575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2189 that is < 1567729028 635425 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :observational humor may be fine < 1567729035 315266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, the set of xkcds we like is possibly disjoint < 1567729040 60368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's necessarily a problem < 1567729060 278366 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't claim that all the new ones are bad, I just prefer the classic ones in average < 1567729075 54224 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do look at every new xkcd, I haven't stopped looking < 1567729087 200113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but prefer other comics now < 1567729098 831611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, part of that is other comics having become better < 1567729142 262371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Dennis Skinner everyone's favorite MP? < 1567729164 430937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's quite some variety in favourite MPs < 1567729176 826893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people's favourite MP is the one representing their own constituency, of course < 1567729188 569658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are quite a lot of interesting personalities in the House of Commons < 1567729195 80610 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww no way < 1567729205 409487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still vote for the part of the city that has ruined the city park < 1567729223 836011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where I spent all my childhood, and now it pains me any time I go there < 1567729250 547237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't feel patriotic to my election district < 1567729266 617512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Lord Buckethead is everyone's favowrite Lord. < 1567729325 270269 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately, it wasn't them who ruined it, because local governments don't have any power anymore, everything is done centrally, in which case there's no point being patriotic to any district government < 1567729387 394762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord Buckethead isn't actually a Lord (if he were, he wouldn't be able to run for the Commons) < 1567729397 622551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he isn't the same Lord Buckethead that became famous, there was an IP dispute < 1567729406 220227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's hard to tell that the person beneath the bucket has changed, though) < 1567729434 769833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's why only very few independents get into the parliament, people vote to support a party in the parliament rather than to support a person supposedly representing their district < 1567729462 81216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we normally get maybe 1 or 2 independents elected per election cycle in the UK < 1567729486 287837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's difficult to win as an independent because you don't have a party's advertising / canvassing might behind you < 1567729502 736251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because FPTP discourages voting for people who have little chance of winning < 1567729525 167247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if an independent is considered a serious candidate in a constituency, they may well end up winning if people dislike their main competitors < 1567729635 802910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until recently I thought most Lords in the House of Lords were hereditary. < 1567729637 904736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? there's a member of the parliament with a bucket on their head? but isn't that impossible because of https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=622 ? < 1567729660 496683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently that's only a small fraction of them. < 1567729673 41720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are appointed, but it's not clear to me exactly how the appointment works. < 1567729677 185352 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, just one or two independets at any time < 1567729677 272193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: no, Lord Buckethead is a persistent /candidate/ to be an MP but has never won < 1567729683 387027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor come remotely close to winning < 1567729694 591123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's only one right now < 1567729699 686376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's by the Prime Minister, but sometimes by a committee? < 1567729714 984793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And appointments are for life. Should I think of it like US Supreme Court appointments? < 1567729735 156028 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so they'd remove the bucket if they became an MP? < 1567729744 866631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like life appointments to a really big advisory body that parliament calls on, that's what the Lords basically are at this point < 1567729753 592129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: either that, or immediately resign < 1567729772 988697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that can work too < 1567729790 763636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normal life-cycle of a law has the Commons design it and the Lords work out the details (and/or say "are you sure?"); the Lords can't block a bill but can delay it < 1567729827 520747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the non-serious party here was once asked what they'd do if they gained majority in the parliament (they never had anything near the chance for that), and whoever they asked said that they'd resign and call for a new election < 1567729840 905019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the House of Lords is much weaker than e.g. the US Senate nowadays. < 1567729843 950219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the Lords are a combination of hereditary peers which are families that have been Lording for generations (advantage: people can be educated specifically for the position; disadvantage: somewhat undemocratic), former MPs, and business/scientific leaders < 1567729847 840111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite being called an "upper house". < 1567729854 889662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that wasn't the case in the past. < 1567729883 632791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Lords used to be equal to the Commons, but there was a constitutional crisis in the early 20th century which lead to the commons being given an override < 1567729975 585656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently bishops have priority over other humans in the House of Lords? What a scam. < 1567729989 986442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for budgets, the override triggers automatically after 1 month if agreement hasn't been reached; for anything else, the Commons need to attempt to pass the same law twice a year apart and then intentionally trigger it) < 1567730021 812836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to delay bills by a year is fairly powerful and gives the Commons lots of tiime to reconsider, but means that the Lords have no final say on almost anything < 1567730037 318514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think "upper" means it should be stronger. it means the same as "Lords", that is, representing the upper classes of society < 1567730037 804654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, MP terms are normally 5 years? < 1567730053 81423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the exception: any attempt to increase the length of time between elections to more than 5 years needs to be approved by both the Commons and Lords, no override available) < 1567730055 964412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1567730110 848312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think "upper" means that it's stronger in any case. < 1567730125 97354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does in cards < 1567730144 912916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's representing a single person, not a whole house < 1567730158 161688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as much as cards represent people < 1567730166 597154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're abstract stuff decorated with people < 1567730169 953532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, one of the only times the override was actually used was to change the time limit on using the override from two years to one year < 1567730188 242286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1567730197 34827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, not a time limit, it's the opposite of a limit < 1567730230 955952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable, that's the sort of topic that they're definitely familiar with so qualified to make rules about < 1567730883 905068 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkcjpdwjpkgizdmq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1567733183 260678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1567738982 353913 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hi < 1567739143 392972 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, the spec was originally designed for my personal reference < 1567739181 749531 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to clarify a lot of stuff before it is ready for the wiki < 1567739341 941747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready for the wiki as in directly explaining it on the wiki page < 1567739442 397686 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :current thing is modifying the subroutine code to make it easier to reuse them < 1567739480 339205 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's { N , & , -- } < 1567739501 334302 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :those commands are affected > 1567740505 145397 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Super Stack14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65990 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+26) 10Redirected page to [[Super Stack!]] < 1567743122 322122 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1567743377 671178 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1567746173 836799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65991&oldid=65989 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-3) 10updating with newest interpreter link. > 1567746623 426343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65992&oldid=65991 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+22) 10doing a little formatting. < 1567751264 176314 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kickjava.com/src/com/sun/java/swing/plaf/nimbus/InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonWindowNotFocusedState.java.htm < 1567751299 337881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this autogenerated code? < 1567752011 115810 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, man < 1567752296 604390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My friend is very irritated at everything about this post: https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/394399/managing-and-organizing-the-massively-increased-number-of-classes-after-switchin < 1567752380 957567 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1567754214 379354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Peti345 5* 10New user account < 1567754461 572900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah great, another company that buys into design patterns and best practices instead of just writing reasonable code < 1567754491 787312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though on the plus side, they are writing tests < 1567754540 773891 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567755468 672572 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric < 1567755586 511707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-184.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1567757733 490990 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567757932 641343 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:2443:7892:d6f0:ebf2:9c81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567758131 767381 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1567759007 743031 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567759275 408391 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (foldl (flip (.)) id [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4 < 1567759277 528356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100 < 1567759285 225991 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(appEndo $ getDual $ mconcat $ map (Dual . Endo) [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4 < 1567759295 331426 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (appEndo $ getDual $ mconcat $ map (Dual . Endo) [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x]) 4 < 1567759297 713080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100 < 1567759352 428027 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mumbles something about a monoid at an informal gathering of endofunctions
< 1567759429 613356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote appendo < 1567759430 51367 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksilver says: 'appEndo' sounds like a harry potter spell < 1567759431 772381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote appendo < 1567759432 130698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpc says: appEndo sounds like a harry potter spell < 1567759439 465372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1567759443 129216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspicious < 1567759479 713738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr ($) 4 [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x] < 1567759482 360343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33 < 1567759497 780697 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567759499 562980 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :appendo sounds like it would be an introductory minikanren example < 1567759501 283093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldl (&) 4 [\x -> x+1, \x -> x*2, \x -> x*x] < 1567759504 590009 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 100 < 1567759678 735334 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567759683 785828 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1567759690 126872 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because of the video game that has a "flippendo" spell, it doesn't sound like a book-canon spell name < 1567759771 382906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't the quote I was looking for anyway. < 1567761183 95108 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle & < 1567761183 572382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function (&) :: a -> (a -> b) -> b < 1567761183 572433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Lens.Lens (&) :: () => a -> (a -> b) -> b < 1567761183 609118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Lens.Operators (&) :: () => a -> (a -> b) -> b < 1567762043 575065 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently python regexes *almost* the same syntax as perl regexen. there's one important difference, but that one is among the most frequent things I write in a regex: < 1567762055 229760 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl's /\z/ corresponds to python's r"\Z" < 1567762070 420644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1567762074 882807 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily if I mess it up, r"\z" gives an unconditional error < 1567762086 428475 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think I ever want to write perl's \Z specifically < 1567762094 449608 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least never without thinking a lot < 1567762217 125495 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other incompatibility is making named capture groups < 1567762245 922935 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible that some of these differences come from ancient historical reasons of course, because python has old roots and evolved parallel to perl < 1567762806 108171 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567762943 410979 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1567762962 994125 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1567762972 509970 :nfd!~nfd9001@2601:602:8500:2443:7892:d6f0:ebf2:9c81 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1567763674 64894 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, I almost forgot this one! in windows, you need to add an extra double quote at the start of the command for the libc system function to work < 1567764620 98661 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567764627 909444 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any examples of using one language's package system to distribute packages for some other language? < 1567764661 460111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the idea of "a language's package system" is so bad in the first place. < 1567764671 569500 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know right? < 1567764704 182051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to give up on all software. < 1567764752 199343 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567765702 238962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1567766216 302538 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567766298 878279 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: good. so when do we start the rebelion to destroy all thinking machines? < 1567766327 69690 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567766488 278459 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567766603 306438 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567766804 307156 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567766978 345385 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567767053 417304 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567767202 88161 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567767653 297333 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567767657 806026 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567767927 208083 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567768084 807208 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1567768822 270136 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567768828 291319 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567769197 94420 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567769308 965231 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dizpfkunuzwlbkyq JOIN :#esoteric < 1567769852 773469 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567770003 299381 :nfd9001!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567770674 707657 :nfd!~nfd9001@c-67-183-33-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1567773873 292418 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567774795 103799 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1567775893 214432 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-188-106-184-179.188.106.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1567776465 569568 :jglewd2641!0e8b26af@14.139.38.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567776496 218416 :jglewd2641!0e8b26af@14.139.38.175 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567776718 890219 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-003-156-154.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1567780874 150206 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@wsip-68-15-198-210.ok.ok.cox.net PART :#esoteric > 1567784482 203869 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Echidna14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65993&oldid=65992 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10updating with newest interpreter link. > 1567784847 361110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Binary to unary conversion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65994&oldid=65982 5* 03CarlosLuna 5* (+399) 10Adding an Unary to binary (arbitrary precision) conversion algorithm > 1567785046 217808 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65995&oldid=53052 5* 03Gamer 5* (+82) 10 > 1567785079 198433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65996&oldid=65995 5* 03Gamer 5* (+0) 10 > 1567785465 8057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65997&oldid=65996 5* 03Gamer 5* (+59) 10 > 1567785547 165535 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65998&oldid=65997 5* 03Gamer 5* (+20) 10 < 1567786398 682366 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/MonadPrompt-1.0.0.5/docs/Control-Monad-Prompt.html is making my brain hurt. Do you still have the solitaire game example? http://int-e.home.tlink.de/haskell/solitaire.tar.gz is broken. < 1567786446 237399 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/53766 is also broken > 1567786493 912400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65999&oldid=65998 5* 03Gamer 5* (+284) 10/* Examples */ > 1567786508 810326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66000&oldid=65999 5* 03Gamer 5* (+6) 10/* drawkcaB 3 nohtyP */ > 1567786527 768437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66001&oldid=66000 5* 03Gamer 5* (+8) 10/* drawkcaB ++C */ < 1567786534 749433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good question > 1567786570 169474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Drawkcab14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=66002&oldid=66001 5* 03Gamer 5* (+0) 10/* Concept */ < 1567786640 684950 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hurry, it will probably take me several weeks to wrap my head around this < 1567786720 441639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/solitaire.tar.gz in full bit-rotted glory... (February 2008) < 1567786748 368774 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: awesome, thank you very much < 1567786857 904852 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jcbjzllunqebinmp QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567786871 210596 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kgbvsicjgmioiwgs QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567786871 384767 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ucebfsfbbespuavj QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1567786881 584403 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgtdkxmnxqffajyg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1567786882 826710 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-idmcbvpovfbwuywt QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1567787203 861341 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine. < 1567787565 609211 :Camto[m]!camtomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qumwdridzklutixt JOIN :#esoteric < 1567787657 170176 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey that was actually pretty painless to fix: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/solitaire-0.0.0.tar.gz < 1567787657 249579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1567788845 247158 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jhmrgrszbwryhqcc JOIN :#esoteric < 1567788845 336288 :xylochoron[m]!xylochoron@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uxmotyuejwwafljo JOIN :#esoteric < 1567788845 377397 :wmww!wmwwmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tzmeikvoehlzdhss JOIN :#esoteric < 1567788853 697671 :ivzem[m]!ivzemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-yczziazegdstpdyg JOIN :#esoteric < 1567789067 548026 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1567789491 19767 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1567790804 828209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, what color of raisins do you prefer? < 1567790804 905725 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: pick me, pick me! < 1567790818 841299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I pick you < 1567790819 8980 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i'm a teenage male interested in programming who recently found out about it is hurting? < 1567790827 709068 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1567790893 869316 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dizpfkunuzwlbkyq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1567791177 899178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1567791177 985519 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube < 1567791207 51976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so, but where did fungot pick up such language... < 1567791207 432416 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i don't remember henna facepaint in wizard of earthsea.) define a macro in a standard latex command. well, the problem i'm having is at fnord < 1567791253 622604 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: tbf you started with a trick question < 1567791309 733039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh, when you address fungot as "my hon. and learned friend", that means you and fungot are both MPs, and fungot is also a lawyer, but not a member of the Privy Council. Is that right? < 1567791310 241643 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: catfive. better tack on the nationality and ethnicity in there as it is < 1567792544 262110 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1567792722 462882 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1567794751 985555 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567795430 425460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mothology < 1567795431 794877 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mothology is the study of moths, myths, mouths, and mirths. < 1567795455 825158 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mythology < 1567795457 263118 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mythology is the study of myths, moths and mirths. < 1567795458 892371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? myth < 1567795460 146345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A myth is a female moth. < 1567795479 131213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mother < 1567795480 306190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? moth < 1567795480 377578 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mother is a person who practices mothology. < 1567795481 613104 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moths are the main ingredient of mothballs. < 1567795487 586597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? method < 1567795489 59440 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A method is a tweaked out mothod. < 1567795514 883904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? month < 1567795516 158170 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Month is a misspelled Moth. < 1567795522 44207 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize there were so many of these < 1567795598 564734 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mouth < 1567795599 699308 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1567795608 210168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A British moth? < 1567795620 219322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mirth < 1567795621 446879 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mirths are juvenile moths. They giggle a lot. < 1567795805 646487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: https://esolangs.org/logs/2007-07-03.html#lcl + #scheme What about it is hurting? < 1567795869 201466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I think most likely some other sentence containing at least the fragment "-- out about it --" < 1567797231 519782 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1943:d2a7:aeba:5324 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567798580 142875 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? math < 1567798581 815208 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1567798630 708731 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s reassuring < 1567798665 948352 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mint < 1567798667 166777 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mint? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1567798701 414777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567798774 347438 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you like lossy compression of music? < 1567798774 618018 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: unless you need faster code. and given ironically ( or mockingly... i'm unsure) but thanks :) < 1567798805 918525 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: and what about lossless one? < 1567798806 78092 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: forces statement to be fnord < 1567798810 82131 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like lossy compression of music < 1567798917 530881 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how much losses you can stand? < 1567798934 888576 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: five < 1567799090 173803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m suspicious some people who were or are encoding music in mp3 don’t know how to do it good or do have a bad codec (is it a thing at all?), as then resulting file has a reasonable bitrate over 128 kbps or even over ~200 kbps but I hear artifacts < 1567799104 192155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I do know how to do it < 1567799110 222663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have my notes about which switches to give < 1567799137 783956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit complicated because the software changed over the years, plus these days I can finally encode music to ogg instead of mp3 < 1567799157 479608 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the five is real, it's an argument to a certain switch that tends to give the right amount of compression < 1567799158 926617 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone even takes a file about 64 kbps and then “upscales” it. Poor universe < 1567799208 14991 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: wait, what does five mean? < 1567799227 354436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to test how much you can compress until you notice problems if you specifically look for them, then encode to significantly better quality than that < 1567799309 796444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: seems a good strategy, yes < 1567799313 295098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ffmpeg -i "$infile" "${metadata[@]}" -vn -c:a libvorbis -q 5.0 < 1567799322 645878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5.0 is a quality parameter to that particular codec < 1567799341 135836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need different parameters depending on the software and the compression method and the quality switch obviously < 1567799341 390478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, quality index, or how’s it called, I see < 1567799379 279389 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME also has an indexed set of variable rate qualities < 1567799417 793325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yes, but I don't use LAME anymore < 1567799428 797419 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just encode video and audio with ffmpeg < 1567799740 918489 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :several times I encoded some music these days I took the quality associated with ~200 kbps, I think. Its index should be 1 or 2 perhaps. I read that even mp3 is sufficiently good on almost all sounds when at bitrates > 128 kbps, and formats like ogg you mentioned or some other new ones, fare even better, but my anecdotal evidence suggests that it’s not that simple (for mp3) < 1567799940 604958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 128 kbps is usually enough < 1567800124 818010 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do you think could sample rate mismatch between a file and the sound card, matter? I don’t see how it would but… < 1567800147 131245 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how/ < 1567800378 146313 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :resampling audio between two arbitrary sample rates is an interesting problem < 1567800411 418544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a tradeoff between the amount of computation needed and the quality of the result < 1567800445 276772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably between different types of distortions too < 1567800450 34808 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty is related to the least common multiple of the rates < 1567800472 34447 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, the easiest case is when one rate is a multiple of the other < 1567800487 476304 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general you want to interpolate to the LCM and then decimate to the output rate < 1567800503 224988 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are ways to do this with FIR filters that provably introduce minimum distortion < 1567800519 692914 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1567800530 516498 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if the least common multiple is infinite, because the ratio is irrational? < 1567800532 208569 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there are cases where the LCM rate would be prohibitively high < 1567800545 566857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1567800570 133345 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your sample rate is not a rational number then you are doing something freaky < 1567800576 965598 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LCM will always be finite, but it might be huge < 1567800577 314337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1567800580 952514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1567800588 137644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sample rates are not dimensionless < 1567800596 838544 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why would you design a system where it's not < 1567800600 409386 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dimension doesn't really matter < 1567800610 559324 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is a rational conversion factor between any two practical time units < 1567800615 514415 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in hertzes or gertzes depending on whether you're writing it in english or russian letters < 1567800626 357839 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you measure time in pi-seconds or something then you deserve what's coming to you < 1567800643 868078 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't design such a system, people design two separate systems, each of them is reasonable, it's just conversion between them that isn't < 1567800661 249048 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me an example please < 1567800661 310429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they come around from spinning vinyl disks or whatever < 1567800663 839924 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where this has happened < 1567800673 272373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't do audio stuff, it's not my thing < 1567800686 646406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any two time units in common use which do not have a rational conversion factor < 1567800688 741011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eventually it doesn't matter of course < 1567800704 503502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rational with prohibitively high LCM is basically the same problem < 1567800710 961865 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1567800726 229168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get between the two with some approximation in the rate < 1567800729 498341 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-integer rates in Hz are common, for example NTSC framerate is 29.97 Hz for Historical Reasons™ < 1567800733 673440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PAL is 25 < 1567800740 689338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b_jonas: there’s no cyrillic letter g :P also in an old transliteration h was converted to г, like Helmholtz and Huygens are (still and hopefully forever) Гельмгольц and Гюйгенс) < 1567800748 299532 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course 29.97/25 is still rational < 1567800766 794722 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1567800780 997811 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the LCM is too big then you can do other things at the expense of introducing distortion < 1567800797 637887 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget exactly how < 1567800838 765895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can interpolate to a smaller compromise value and then during decimation, interpolate that 'on the fly' using a small filter such as cubic interpolation, that only looks at a few sample points < 1567800859 95405 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it properly might require storing many millions of data points in your DSP filter state < 1567800860 565275 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from encoding music files to mp3 or ogg and chopping them timewise, all I did with audio is remove them from audio+video files when I re-encode the video < 1567800901 322025 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a fun script once to batch-convert my master music library (a mix of mostly flac and high quality mp3) to ogg vorbis for my portable music player < 1567800909 631463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would distribute the work across multiple machines < 1567800934 170463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I rewrote it in C# because I wanted to get a taste of what C# is like < 1567800935 324707 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it remains the only C# program I've written < 1567800985 699753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it makes some sense for southern dialects where г is frequently a fricative [ɣ], not a plosive [ɡ] like in the normed dialect, and we could also for example take Ukrainian where г means [ɦ] outright and there’s a separate letter for plosive, ґ, AFAIR it’s used in rare contexts, but the transliteration of Hertz would be probably the same and it would be read more like the original name) < 1567801041 514152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sure, it just becomes funny when you transliterate the russian names back to hungarian, and you get g instead of h and f instead of th < 1567801219 324223 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you come to any conclusions about C#? < 1567801415 145226 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it seems like a fine language, like Java but less crippled, it's not terribly exciting but I wouldn't hate using it either < 1567801508 70584 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday I remembered that I don’t like C# left switch statement syntax almost as it was in C and C++ (and Java?..) I have seen a syntax like switch (e) case (…) b case (…) b … else b (where b are blocks), this looks more comfortable in a language where low-level control flow inside switch doesn’t exist < 1567801551 36007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah, I agree < 1567801589 955462 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw something like that somewhere and it looks strange < 1567801803 888128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not actually an engineer, so I don't meet those unit of measure abbreviations < 1567801878 815214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess Hz does appear on end-user electronics like mobile phone chargers < 1567801943 302345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days all those end-user electronics have magical solid state transformers that work with any of the voltage and frequency standards for mains electronics < 1567801969 495910 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1567801976 264655 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch-mode power supplies < 1567801982 95059 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them will even run on DC input < 1567801991 476226 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not to arbitrarily low voltage < 1567801998 272022 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMPS are very interesting < 1567802046 178228 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple and clever, but tricky to design well in practice < 1567802067 804042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"~ 110–240 V 50/60 Hz" they all say, so you can use them with passive converters if you travel to anywhere < 1567802074 177156 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they basically do AC->DC->AC->DC < 1567802093 246289 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds inefficient but if you do it right it's very efficient < 1567802106 864018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that because they transform to AC with much higher frequency? < 1567802130 433120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still magic, I don't know how it can work < 1567802134 225610 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle AC frequency is on the order of 100-1000 kHz so they can use cheaper / lighter / smaller transformers < 1567802195 31705 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the very simple overview is that they alternately charge up an energy storage device (usually an inductor) and then discharge it into another storage device (usually a capacitor), which feeds the load < 1567802206 113646 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, but then they have to create such a higher frequency AC too, and without too much energy loss < 1567802209 185161 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alternation is controlled by semiconductor switches < 1567802231 969073 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though actually, very old devices called "vibrators" worked on a similar principle, but mechanically!) < 1567802245 566326 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(used to transform 12V DC in a car into hundreds of V for vacuum tube radios) < 1567802253 719590 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a feedback loop which controls the frequency and/or duty cycle of the switching < 1567802268 144787 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to maintain a certain output voltage regardless of the load < 1567802298 199737 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can boost as well as reduce voltages < 1567802321 800557 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can build ones that can take any input voltage in a wide range, lower or higher or the same as the output < 1567802326 875027 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's more complicated < 1567802350 606369 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they do multiple possible output voltages, and negotiate them through USB < 1567802352 377758 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I find really interesting are the similarities between a SMPS, a class-D amplifier, a delta-sigma DAC, and an active power factor correction circuit < 1567802355 467472 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1567802396 270358 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can sort of think of a class-D (switching) amplifier as a SMPS whose output voltage varies over time, determined by the input signal < 1567802400 978849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the car charger ones take 12 V DC < 1567802421 407942 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB-C-PD is neat. I have a single brick, not much bigger than a typical phone charging brick, that can charge both my phone and my laptop < 1567802424 459839 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's handy for travel < 1567802472 289303 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still use the larger dedicated laptop brick at home < 1567802486 973193 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some strange esoteric things you can do with USB-C < 1567802494 734937 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like plug two chargers into each other, or plug your laptop into itself < 1567802500 228148 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't charge laptop, but I can charge any of my low power devices (camera, mobile phone, spare mobile phone, music player, bluetooth headphone adapter) with the same charger < 1567802510 875029 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1567802534 611819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all low power, unlike the laptop < 1567802545 197503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop chargers actually heat up, that's harder < 1567802562 892058 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two chargers into each other? what does that do? < 1567802565 476463 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this brick is capable of 60W (3A @ 20V) < 1567802569 931895 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough for the laptop to charge < 1567802570 77921 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean with only one charger plugged into mains? < 1567802585 377165 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it requires 20V which is why most of my bricks won't charge it < 1567802591 956549 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the factory default charger is only 65W anyway < 1567802599 555957 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it produces mains out of the other one, obviously /s < 1567802611 117393 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would be touch unsafe < 1567802614 136028 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a USB-C inline power meter too < 1567802615 489316 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is neat < 1567802656 624207 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells the voltage, current, and direction of power < 1567802771 769028 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1567802790 437093 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567802846 411705 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.153.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567804471 505560 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1567804892 352323 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1567804900 134998 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Lykaina < 1567804917 899967 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated the documentation pdf (again) < 1567804927 701950 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567804935 882149 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi b_jonas < 1567804965 640483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: interesting stuff. Now I know I don’t kow anything about contemporary electronics :D < 1567804977 210630 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kow/know < 1567804992 278961 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1567804996 654029 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated shit < 1567805021 944019 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1567805023 544201 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that impression already, but not I’m aware I’m hopeless < 1567805038 403155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I knew very little until 2-3 years ago < 1567805039 776243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why our company keeps hiring so many people who understand electronics enough to design and assemble it < 1567805080 369456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and train engineer student interns in it too < 1567805095 923112 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with SMPSes is that they (especially the cheap ones) tend to produce tons of radio frequency interference at frequencies which interfere with ham radio < 1567805109 40867 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on this new, easier to read pdf, what is your opinion of Echidna? http://sif.lesidhetree.com/sara/echidna/spec_notes.pdf < 1567805111 604182 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it harder and harder to operate HF from populated areas < 1567805156 995832 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also produce RF on the output itself so some hams still swear by the old, huge, expensive, inefficient linear power supplies < 1567805160 533223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but can't the power supplies shield that with some wires unless they're disassembled? < 1567805192 74192 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, unfortunate < 1567805236 706482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linear supply is much simpler. a transformer to drop ac voltage down to a bit above the target, a diode rectifier, and a linear regular which acts as a variable resistor in series with the load < 1567805242 27482 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some smoothing caps < 1567805254 216791 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a feedback system, but an analog continuous-time one < 1567805257 796964 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no switching < 1567805280 148879 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most ham gear comes with a 13.8V DC power input and you provide your own power supply < 1567805310 467613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the cheaper ones are made so badly that they draw measurable current from the mains even when they're not loaded < 1567805315 177005 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes but that would cost an extra $0.0002 < 1567805325 233060 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shielding < 1567805345 141580 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you need it for FCC certification but how many Chinese companies will actually care < 1567805354 434847 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the shielding isn't necessarily good enough for hams < 1567805362 481435 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to pick up weak signals < 1567805381 867380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more stringent requirements than "don't interfere with my other consumer electronics" < 1567805395 981742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1567805425 622021 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you need it for FCC certification but how many Chinese companies will actually care> would they hopefully decades later? < 1567805446 541382 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I forgot to copy all < 1567805455 420493 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like astronomers, who have to move their big telescopes to small research towns that have more stringent regulation for darkening curtains on houses than people had during world war II < 1567805480 62685 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand how they don't just trip and fall on the street at new moon there < 1567805489 659382 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqsmbnheqptssdyu JOIN :#esoteric < 1567805490 901638 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1567805510 280593 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the human eye can do well in very low light if properly adjusti < 1567805515 886740 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: flashlights and wax candles < 1567805517 669380 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjusted < 1567805542 600827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes, that's why it's fine at full moon < 1567805550 862133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at half moon < 1567805566 915505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes there's new moon, and then it's new moon everywhere on Earth < 1567805589 322839 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :including in those places < 1567805594 398162 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1567805622 379389 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i asked my question at the wrong time... < 1567805629 835482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no < 1567805635 932411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry < 1567805642 393710 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look at that pdf eventually < 1567805642 597143 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don’t mind me, I’m stalling in going to sleep) < 1567805672 489164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already decided that it's not so weird to have 4 addressing modes for most instructions, because you have so few instructions that the total is still well under 256 different opcodes < 1567805750 573865 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1567805790 314225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: I complained a few days ago that it seemed strange that almost every operand to your instructions can be immediate, or so it seems from the pdf < 1567805810 867356 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have like a dozen two-operand instructions where that applies to both operands < 1567805834 739286 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: my previous question about indirect loads still stands though < 1567805848 59349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1567805856 76974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: maybe you don't logread? is that the problem? < 1567805873 492578 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is logread? < 1567805913 191245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :read channel logs for what people said while you're not joined to the channel < 1567805925 726989 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has nothing to do with logarithms < 1567806002 934429 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: maybe @tell, then? < 1567806137 321407 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I rely upon lambdabot usually, so if I should logread something, please remind me in that case too < 1567806195 610097 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what is indirect load? < 1567806240 521904 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: load when the memory address of where you're loading from is not constant < 1567806263 987614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although now with this later version of the pdf, it's getting unclear < 1567806271 275523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this thing allow self-modifying code? < 1567806284 108849 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1567806333 443652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why does it say that subroutines are at "Range 0100-EFFF" of the "Memory"? is that in a code memory separate from the data memory that the arithmetic instructions operate on? < 1567806359 524900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should look at the interpreter. does it have readable code? < 1567806375 990464 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo. subroutines uses that memory space < 1567806407 953620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's your data stack? < 1567806422 470190 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1567806432 82873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a stack, you don't have the right sort of instructions for them < 1567806443 879793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be hard to manipulate a stack without an indirect load < 1567806449 9052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why it's such a large area? < 1567806450 79152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1567806465 627462 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the interpreter < 1567806468 256932 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can globally compile everything, find all the calls, and assign the local addresses that way < 1567806831 370877 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand what you mean by indirect load correctly, i may be able to implement it by adding a third argument input type (as in other than @xxxx and =xxxx types) < 1567806869 795308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so.. the control instructions, as in N & -- O P Q _ - are all structured ones, there are no arbitrary gotos < 1567806872 814594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1567806908 392537 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: as I read the spec right now, the L and M instructions are the only ones that can do an indirect load < 1567806921 520435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except I don't understand what the S instruction does at all < 1567806947 421410 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads the program < 1567806958 30948 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from the < 1567807066 577476 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if there's text in the program file < 1567807080 226549 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads it to memory < 1567807113 101724 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that makes sense < 1567807257 335918 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i make, say, a $xxxx in addition to =xxxx and @xxxx, where, as @xxxx is mem[value], $xxxx would be mem[mem[value]], would that help? < 1567807382 999478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which instructions would take which combinations of address modes? you'd have to tell that somewhere < 1567807417 847494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to have indirect addresing modes sort of everywhere, then I don't understand why you have a specific instruction for an indirect store < 1567807453 154205 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is indirect store? < 1567807458 528495 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :H < 1567807463 686073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also does ordinary store < 1567807593 121347 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:1943:d2a7:aeba:5324 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1567807602 816692 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not dedicated < 1567807623 304424 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dedicated because the other instructions, the arithmetic ones, can only store to a fixed address < 1567807628 609734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but H can store indirectly < 1567807637 687578 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1567807638 432654 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the logic instructions can load indirect if I understand correctly < 1567807651 537522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I just misunderstand the spec < 1567807761 844788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1567807778 382611 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.2.110.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1567807786 853806 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for rewriting memory addressing notation, would mean the samples would have to be rewritten too... < 1567807809 134229 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the implementation it doesn't look like the L and M instructions can read from indirect addresses < 1567807813 662174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I see in the spec then? < 1567807843 123174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1567807864 760500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't understand the descriptions of the L and M ops from the pdf because they're a bit unclear on what is their input and output < 1567807876 528683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter makes it clear that they don't do indirect loads < 1567807899 49186 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also that all the arithmetic instructions can do indirect stores < 1567807903 425194 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was wrong about that too < 1567807909 313491 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :=xxxx is currently used to represent mem[xxxx] instead of xxxx in certain places < 1567807926 458727 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm seeing possible confusion < 1567807967 699807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno then < 1567807979 134059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current combo with no indirect load but lots of indirect stores is ... strange < 1567807993 555707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall having seen such an instruction set < 1567807996 57776 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like H =xxxx =yyyy stores yyyy to mem[xxxx] < 1567808014 609017 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that confusing? < 1567808033 89645 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no, it's not confusing about the H and the arithmetic instructions < 1567808042 926339 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for your description of the logic instructions, it is confusing < 1567808051 470954 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf doesn't tell what they read and write < 1567808057 686180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike in the arithmetic instructions < 1567808090 220284 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at page 1 for examples of L and M < 1567808282 486894 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that help? < 1567808285 711043 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1567808307 31051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation code does though < 1567808342 973881 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you recommend i change it? < 1567808392 428953 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf, i mean < 1567808404 615407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1567808419 731773 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the pdf, where you describe the T operation, you see how there's an equals sign in it? mem[val0] is on the lhs of that, val1 and val2 are on the rhs. from that you can tell that the first operand is output only, the second and third are input only < 1567808443 547866 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells what that instruction does, what it stores to mem[val0] < 1567808470 910244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :try something like that for the L and M instructions < 1567808543 127526 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "L bitwise_1bit: mem[val0] = (~val1 & val2 | val1 & val3)" < 1567808562 103911 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only of course swap around the stuff in it until it actually describes what the operation does < 1567808674 646031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly like "M bitwise_2bit: mem[val0] = (val1 & val2 & -(0 != val & 8)) | val1 & ~val2 & -(0 != val & 4) | ~val1 & val2 & -(0 != val & 2) | ~val1 & ~val2 & -(0 != val &1)) but again swap around stuff until it matches your implementation < 1567808732 729665 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it will help, i'm gonna change the {=,@} stuff to {=,@,$} where =xxxx is always literal value, @xxxx is always direct address, and $xxxx is always indirect address < 1567808764 642878 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want long formulas there, you can also write something like "M bitwise_2bit: mem[val0] = bitwise_2bit(val1, val2, val3)" and you explain elsewhere what the pure arithmetic part "bitwise_2bit" does, to at least maek it clear what is read from memory and what is written < 1567808807 480505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: might help, since that matches more how popular assembly syntax for cpus work < 1567808830 380592 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that approach. it's what i attempted to do originally < 1567808839 634202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should also have somewhere in the pdf that makes it clear which instructions work with what combinatinos of addressing modes < 1567809001 859752 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1567809003 40257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needn't be in the same table as the one that summarizes the ops < 1567809008 167012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a separate table < 1567809540 193595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: oh, and I also asked < 1567809553 603625 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd1d:c0d0:b2fd:9149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567809602 751227 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: for the arithmetic instructions that do less-than compare, division, right shift, can you make it clear whether these are unsigned integer comparison, unsigned divsion, unsigned right shift? and is there a separate signed less-than comparison instruction? < 1567809815 596674 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:dd1d:c0d0:b2fd:9149 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1567810011 83879 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... the interpreter stores each of the 65536 words of the memory, logically 2 bytes sized each, in 4 bytes each? < 1567810014 103688 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing that? < 1567810028 115903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this something I misunderstood in the pdf too, and they're actually 4 byte long? < 1567810048 2785 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks from the interpreter as if they were 4 bytes long < 1567810054 401644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1567810069 59846 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait < 1567810069 986240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1567810078 463644 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1567810105 116073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing < 1567810119 728022 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to read the whole code to tell if you can store more than two bytes in a cell, thus breaking the abstraction < 1567810122 966211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not willing to do that now < 1567810444 347428 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's supposed to be 65536 cells, each 2 bytes in size. < 1567810457 107152 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why don't you represent them that way too? < 1567810464 210894 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't? < 1567810473 320492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look like from the source code < 1567810511 758679 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are "unsigned int". in C, is that not 2 bytes? < 1567810518 495096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1567810589 619972 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always thought an int was 2 bytes, a long was 4 bytes... < 1567810616 307280 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1567810631 249280 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want 2 bytes use uint16_t < 1567810668 439775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: it's not that simple, you have to be careful with the arithmetic because it will promote to int and do a signed shift < 1567810671 442432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is ugly < 1567810687 992213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may need explicit casts or such things < 1567810689 586036 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah arithmetic is tricky < 1567810698 567549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic in *C* is tricky < 1567810711 976150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a complication by C rules < 1567810718 727271 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: the C standard doesn’t place many constraints on how big exactly int, long, etc are < 1567810794 126698 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :often on modern computers short is 2, int is 4, long is 8 but that is NOT guaranteed < 1567810808 677153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: if I subtract an unsigned int from a signed long, what type is the result? < 1567810841 731164 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll change it to a short < 1567810851 339009 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of an int < 1567810852 270216 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: no < 1567810873 950487 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want 2 bytes, write int16_t or uint16_t < 1567810882 119000 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what's your take? < 1567810902 190572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: again, it's not that simple, if you do that, you'll also have to change some of the code for the arithmetic instrs too < 1567810909 710064 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I know the right answer is “read the spec” :P < 1567810935 408551 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the current version gets more of them right than if you just change all the types to a short < 1567810997 795483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :j4cbo: I'm still a bit shocked about how (a) 0<1 has a different type in C++ than in C, yet the difference in type is _almost_ never detectable in code that you can write in both C and C++ < 1567811055 45000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a pity, because apart from that stupid change, the C++ rules are usually IMO better than the C rules < 1567811107 190875 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's possible that that change is for the better too, I'm just not quite convinced that it's worth < 1567811207 129705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lykaina: anyway, I think first you should decide how you want the less-than, division and right-shift operations behave, then be careful that the code for those and for the subtraction implements them correctly < 1567811266 853749 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned, integer division < 1567811282 233170 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :no floats < 1567811439 734495 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-=-1 < 1567811469 723107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ah yes, secret operators < 1567811584 128493 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even compile? < 1567811591 367324 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-=-1 ? < 1567811637 199747 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it has to be "x -= -1" < 1567811660 467129 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that do? < 1567811670 932429 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhlvmgrmtzwmpdca PRIVMSG #esoteric :don’t forget the “goes to” operator: while (x --> 0) { ... } < 1567811701 978867 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=x - -1 < 1567811769 589535 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever invented lambda operations is a sadist < 1567811769 699863 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -=- operator is the same as the += operator < 1567811832 728199 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1567811838 222718 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the +=- operator is the same as the -= operator < 1567811861 487849 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :why make them? < 1567812119 676321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: not quite, sadly < 1567812129 729305 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in C that is < 1567812132 305903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overflow rules < 1567812215 579561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-75.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :+= is better than -=- < 1567812564 930616 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-35-175-217-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, when the right operand is MAX_INT? < 1567812735 975466 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567812847 252750 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.zentut.com/c-tutorial/c-integer/ < 1567813010 10380 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:5ded:1c76:ebea:a8b1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1567813263 295587 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.153.190 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 < 1567813697 568797 :Saggytarius!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1567814051 568634 :Saggytarius!2e3bf952@46.59.249.82 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds