> 1566951244 262748 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Toel F 5*  10New user account
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> 1566956193 963398 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5*  10New user account
> 1566956467 228686 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65718&oldid=65717 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+303) 10Followed instructions.
> 1566956534 122275 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SoundOfScripting14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65719 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+1067) 10Created page with "This is the page of the terrible language designer [https://www.esolangs.org/wiki/User:SoundOfScripting User:SoundOfScripting]. I like to make esolangs, even if they are not p..."
> 1566956607 562190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:HereToAnnoy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65720&oldid=65380 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (-992) 10Alternatively, delete this page.
> 1566956658 665908 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Arrows14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65721&oldid=57337 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956682 631943 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TheSingularity14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65722&oldid=55647 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956800 218363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07WCDA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65723&oldid=53754 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+57) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956856 866437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Focus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65724&oldid=55649 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (-60) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956895 417341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TwoFiftyFive14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65725&oldid=53836 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Sorry for the eidit spam! Just a handful more pages. ======= Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956924 316116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Tables14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65726&oldid=53826 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566956961 179492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Neg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65727&oldid=55788 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10maybe I'm just dumb and I could've changed my username
> 1566956983 248654 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07GetWhen14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65728&oldid=55798 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566957083 195910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65729&oldid=56602 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+45) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566957157 416576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07D.U.C.K.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65730&oldid=60740 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
> 1566957179 720474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Braincells14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65731&oldid=65379 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (+5) 10Last one! Changed to User:SoundOfScripting
< 1566957651 288126 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctamtxznjysbueqs QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
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> 1566972488 655349 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BitBounce14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65732&oldid=65705 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-1) 10
< 1566975166 884829 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e050:7321:c75c:3766 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1566976394 823965 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:e050:7321:c75c:3766 JOIN :#esoteric
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> 1566980121 815942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Spin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65733&oldid=33886 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+18) 10Adding a year category.
> 1566980698 816379 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Spin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65734&oldid=65733 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+140) 10Adding examples.
< 1566981348 468202 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1566981504 910672 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566982472 418916 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566982503 967220 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566982522 619700 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning. Idea for the day: design an esoteric parsing combinator library.
< 1566982538 644877 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe based on Fokker's X combinator. Except for parsing, of course.
< 1566982618 113579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning.
< 1566982635 474323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should know a whole bunch more about parsing.
< 1566983272 310904 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive descent parsing is easy and fun, but only works on some grammars. If you write a RDP manually you can manually add code to do non-context-free things like track a symbol table or generate code.
< 1566983329 343458 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are algorithms that will return all possible parses for general context-free grammars. They're not as efficient, most programming languages don't need them, but they're also fun in their way.
< 1566983351 818816 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a PEG is, I should probably find out some day.
< 1566983536 250295 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Table-based parsing of LR-type grammars I find not-fun and have basically ignored all my life.
< 1566986621 584669 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LR-grammar parsing stuff is very esoteric, though, and should not be ignored. Maybe someone could make an esolang where it works like shift/reduce parsing, except it's not just a parser, it's a Turing-complete language.
< 1566987052 203709 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566987188 876356 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that different from a push-down automaton, really, I guess
< 1566987201 384988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me of the mostly unrelated topic of alternating finite automata.
< 1566987225 684829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to figure out whether they're a realistic implementation strategy for regular expressions.
< 1566987292 228587 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds realistic in the sense that you could implement it. Whether there would be any advantages to doing so or not, I don't know.
< 1566987382 548744 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's conventional to convert NFAs to DFAs, but you can also execute NFAs directly. Which is more efficient in the modern era probably depends on cache configuration and all that gory stuff.
< 1566987842 510918 :MDude!~MDude@76.5.108.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566988971 515195 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/conventional/traditional/
< 1566989429 491546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The advantage would be support for intersection and complement.
< 1566989777 151607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1566990163 432362 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean, improved support... I think most regex implementations aren't oriented at optimizing the compilation-to-FA step.
< 1566990183 501534 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need to compile the RE once, and typically use it more than once
< 1566990201 933219 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you should probably sleep
< 1566990480 554513 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/kragen/peg-bootstrap/blob/master/peg.md
< 1566990485 284665 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favorite page to learn about PEG
< 1566992347 623772 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwmtselggdgikxoj JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566993957 663394 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia article is also not bad (as they go).  My understanding is, someone looked at how CFGs actually get implemented (as RDPs) and turned that back into a grammar formalism.
< 1566993981 957575 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expedient yes; mathematically satisfying, not really
< 1566994301 965011 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1566994534 12640 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that kind of RDP. (Google finds something entirely different.)
< 1566995007 234039 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 JOIN :#esoteric
> 1566995043 861691 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Thecatlover1996 5*  10New user account
< 1566995101 844818 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remote Drocedure Pall
> 1566995302 734624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65735&oldid=65718 5* 03Thecatlover1996 5* (+242) 10/* Introductions */
> 1566995307 611383 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65736&oldid=65605 5* 03Thecatlover1996 5* (+50) 10/* Language overview */ Tape has length 30,000
< 1566997134 431833 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@slow.wreckage.volia.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1566997150 183040 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65737&oldid=65736 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+168) 10/* Language overview */ clarify the nature of the tape
> 1566997250 314352 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65738&oldid=65737 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+106) 10/* Computational class */ clarify that BF requires an unbounded tape or unbounded values to be TC
> 1566997390 21026 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Trickbrain26 5*  10New user account
> 1566997952 515832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07C-14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65739&oldid=42106 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (-4) 10unpipe link to Wikipedia
> 1566998372 666077 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65740&oldid=65735 5* 03Trickbrain26 5* (+140) 10/* Introductions */
< 1566999530 967392 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1566999702 245616 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpy
< 1567000164 817558 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c80-216-244-252.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567000164 897665 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c80-216-244-252.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host
< 1567000164 897703 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567000332 728745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65741&oldid=65714 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+116) 10
> 1567000421 342047 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65742&oldid=65741 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-66) 10/* A Brief Tutorial */
> 1567000444 338198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65743&oldid=65742 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-15) 10/* Introduction */
> 1567000468 375420 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65744&oldid=65743 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+0) 10/* A Brief Tutorial */
> 1567000654 479891 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65745&oldid=65744 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-136) 10
> 1567000677 565816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65746&oldid=65745 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+9) 10/* Introduction */
> 1567000833 81576 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65747&oldid=65746 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-99) 10
> 1567000895 66753 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65748&oldid=65747 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+0) 10/* A Brief Tutorial */
< 1567001609 134266 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps Stephen Wolfram's ideas presented in "A New Kind of Science" can provide useful insight for your endeavour
> 1567002162 636555 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Orby14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65749&oldid=60360 5* 03Orby 5* (+12) 10
< 1567003177 245653 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-mjgkxlcvypidxvow QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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> 1567006478 19199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65750&oldid=65748 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-2900) 10
> 1567006497 465977 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PATH14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65751&oldid=65653 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-54) 10/* Variations */
> 1567006511 264450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SNUSP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65752&oldid=65651 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-39) 10/* See also */
< 1567006541 113366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567006569 777250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you seen recursive ascent parsers? it's basically the open-coded version of LR, but much easier to understand than the table-driven version
< 1567006621 665620 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1567006679 681686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is that whenever you have a grammar ambiguity that can't immediately be resolved with your lookahead symbols but can be resolved later, you call a function that can parse either of the two things you want to be able to parse, and returns which of the two it parsed
< 1567006710 291465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(occasionally you'll need multiple functions that disambiguate in different ways depending on what comes next, but that's rare)
< 1567007025 661020 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't
< 1567007287 756740 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also fall back to something like CYK for the non-LL parts (overkill, of course)
< 1567007293 25826 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately must be off.
< 1567007297 178726 :cpressey!~cpressey@5.133.242.4 QUIT :Quit: A la prochaine.
< 1567007370 304887 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567007415 246722 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use s-expressinos
< 1567007571 11759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? the language you're parsing? that doesn't work too well if you don't control the format
< 1567007586 608630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when you do, s-expressions tend to have some amount of variety in what constants they support
< 1567007623 817149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been working with SMT2 recently, whose syntax is a proper subset of Common Lisp's (although the semantics are quite different), and it can be hard to find off-the-shelf parsers for it even though it's just s-expressions
< 1567007637 697166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to things like #x1234 as a hexadecimal number
< 1567007651 463220 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a frustrating problem
< 1567007675 558545 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like lisp and s-expressions has more potential but kind of flopped because of issues like the one you state
< 1567007704 313802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is basically designed to be manipulated by lisp code, it isn't really designed to be manipulated by code in arbitrary other languages
< 1567007894 305260 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would design READ to be based on a list of regexes
< 1567007902 332072 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the tokens
< 1567008136 433561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also the problem that SMT2 is very strongly typed, so, e.g., #x00 and #x0000 are constants of different type, the former is 8 bits wide, the latter 16 bits wide; this is something a generic parser is unlikely to tell you about)
< 1567008186 434199 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes you would definitely need a custom reader for that
< 1567008822 95186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general I think the idea of a generic parser that handles a wide range of languages wouldn't really work, languages' semantics often ends up being mirrored in the syntax
< 1567008954 305622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to imagine what a sexpy version of Incident would look like

< 1567008956 941117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it works
< 1567009622 513563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1567010624 614777 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567010788 953632 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1567010801 971186 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1567013140 253748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567013242 631550 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65753&oldid=65697 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+110) 10/* Macmac */  new lang and removing newline as a shortcut.
< 1567013594 952001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567013747 632183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65754&oldid=65753 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-404) 10
< 1567013932 274164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all
< 1567013981 399369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
> 1567015290 234276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65755&oldid=60717 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+1) 10Moving category to the bottom
< 1567015486 483463 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567015518 174612 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello b_jonas 
< 1567015520 618489 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's new?
> 1567015632 196756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65756&oldid=60788 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+23) 10Rerorerorerorero
> 1567015899 442536 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RISBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65757&oldid=56849 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+18) 10I Love You Kitchen Gun :D
< 1567017134 900531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chkdsk eats memory like crazy :o
< 1567017145 617867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to
< 1567017165 167089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on what parameters you start it with, obviously
< 1567017173 665958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to hold the entire filesystem metadata in memory?
< 1567017189 594191 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to check for, like, blocks that are marked as occupied but to which nothing points, or inconsistent forwards-backwards pointers or cycles
< 1567017193 854552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be anywhere in the file system
< 1567017195 243453 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b_jonas: /F /R /X /I /C)
< 1567017204 858281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: oh, this is on Windows?
< 1567017209 778662 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1567017219 459570 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense, it's not called chkdsk on unixen
< 1567017222 359787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called fsck
< 1567017327 947535 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I bet it could understand something like -f -r -x but I just copied the forms given in the help message
< 1567017365 616174 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s quite scary when low on memory
< 1567017393 107932 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apps crash, the screen turned black for some time for an unknown reason
< 1567017424 489801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't run apps
< 1567017433 458656 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use a smartphone
< 1567017440 150890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only run programs, and put my files into directories
< 1567017471 597412 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D I mean, various software for entertaining purposes like skype or streamWriter
< 1567017522 198366 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don’t ask me why skype is here. I don’t know either)
< 1567017543 183715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do use skype
< 1567017551 839358 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only the windows version, not the mobile phone version
< 1567017562 750157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it because it lets me call some co-workers and relatives
< 1567017622 681844 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the first one here, though I had to install the second to be able to chat with people for chatting who with the first skype remains
< 1567017641 881854 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand that
< 1567017647 817320 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1567017654 464976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :install the mobile version to do what?
< 1567017691 666267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to do what I do with the first one
< 1567017705 545681 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I wanted to test the grammar a bit
< 1567017801 836599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had tested several different messengers out there these times and hadn’t migrate properly to any of them yet, so it’s skype for a while
< 1567017831 248829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people I know use like four different ones
< 1567017840 348254 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it visibly degraded as a group chat software
< 1567017946 983139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it upgraded in several regards, but many bugs were introduced, and sufficiently much of functionality, removed
< 1567018007 333618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. you can no longer just invite another person by skype username. you have to do a search, which searches in all fields, and then choose the person with the given skype username, and you can't even easily tell the skype username, only the displayed name, you have to get some hidden properties box to find it out.
< 1567018095 611568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably DOS a user by registering thirty users with the same displayed name and avatar picture (and changing those to follow that person), because nobody would be able to invite them then
< 1567018108 682252 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also I want to complain about widespread lack of support of composite fonts. It’s a pretty simple concept in light of modern font rendering libraries, and still does it appear so rarely in the software with multilingual potential like chat things not based on web browsers
< 1567018153 452839 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh
< 1567018176 104832 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything I say about skype might be imprecise of course, because it may have changed ten updates ago
< 1567019227 923968 :tromp_!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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> 1567025405 892152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65758&oldid=65738 5* 03PaniniTheDeveloper 5* (+5) 10
< 1567025410 317325 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-bcee02-33.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
> 1567025921 426189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65759&oldid=65667 5* 03PaniniTheDeveloper 5* (+80) 10
< 1567026028 691292 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:f9b3:bf2f:71a7:665f QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1567027501 654878 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a neat problem just now: given a small segment of a conic, how do you distinguish is it a circle, an ellipse, a parabola or a hyperbola?
< 1567027507 494578 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv
< 1567027602 534493 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone not knowing it prior, would be interested to solve it for themselves or openly. I have already spoilered myself into a part of the solution so I don’t count
< 1567027868 783389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: should I tell the solution, or would you just like to figure it out yourself?
< 1567028115 966313 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcdc6imrwoapg3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1567028141 570173 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you wish; I see at least two avenues: using foci and something related or drawing a cartesian coordinate system, taking coordinates of several points and then calculating some invariants. I don’t remember particularities of either except one thing about optics
< 1567028201 670176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully we won’t spoil it for anybody interested
< 1567028217 415856 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ^
< 1567028225 610741 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: what I'd do is to just the sort of brute force way, which is to compute the parameters of the quadratic form of the conic from five points on the arc. 
< 1567028248 682313 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the second way then
< 1567028257 34525 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice easy but not very well known way to do that efficiently that is described in the yellow geometry book that I bought only this year, which I can tell if you want.
< 1567028282 712411 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :something determinant-y?
< 1567028303 314517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be possible to do something more geometric, that is, going most of the way with a straightedge construction to find points on the involution that the conic implies on the ideal line, 
< 1567028335 117751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that helps, because that's the sort of theoretical construction that you either couldn't do in real life, or only engineers could do in real life and I'm not an engineer
< 1567028355 197482 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: something matrix-y, yes
< 1567028426 811901 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aligned more to the second, algebraic/computational way here, too. I’m profound in forgetting essential theorems of synthetic geometry needed for the first path
< 1567028441 981984 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7c7e:6916:e395:5fa4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1567028447 986643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one that you can't forget once you learn about it, it's a beautiful method
< 1567028458 164212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pity I hadn't learned it earlier
< 1567028487 551692 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: like, some 5th-order matrix? or less, 3rd order, something from projective linear algebra?
< 1567028512 593234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have to solve a rank 5 linear equation
< 1567028588 622924 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, with a row for every point?
< 1567028614 401345 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the 6x5 matrix where each row is [x0**2, x1**2, x2**2, 2*x0*x1, 2*x0*x2, 2*x1*x2] where [x0, x1, x2] is a coordinate for a point, one row per point
< 1567028670 309956 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, homogeneous coordinates, makes sense
< 1567028706 765958 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the right part and what are unknowns here?
< 1567028786 60567 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 6x5, so you solve for a nonzero vector orthogonal to each row
< 1567028813 468189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that vector is [a00, a11, a22, a01, a02, a12], then its components give the quadratic form
< 1567028871 768568 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works because [a00, a11, a22, a01, a02, a12]^T*[x0**2, x1**2, x2**2, 2*x0*x1, 2*x0*x2, 2*x1*x2] is exactly the equation of the conic
< 1567028884 352768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric := 0 obviously
< 1567028941 817336 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm neat
< 1567028970 755226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once you have that, just check the sign of the determinant of [a00,a10;a01,a11] to tell if it's a hyperbola
< 1567029008 514499 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one even lets you make this more numerically stable if you take more than five points
< 1567029035 423147 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! this part is great
< 1567029041 542284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if you have a lot of sample points but each one has some error
< 1567029057 394889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbole is totally on topic for this channel.
< 1567029139 942720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, I guess, we can take four points and deduce something like “the most <something> quadratic form” using least squares to solve the underdetermined system
< 1567029174 422450 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to note that it gets much harder to find the conic if you have three points and two tangents. Apart from degenerate cases, there are always exactly four real solutions or no real solutions. It was REALLY not obvious to me why there can't be exactly two solutions.
< 1567029175 322591 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or three points, but that would be more boring probably)
< 1567029229 640147 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how about parables?
< 1567029252 410618 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I presume ellipsis is…
< 1567029276 994324 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hopefully we wouldn’t talk in circles)
< 1567029291 591616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four points and one tangent is easier. Apart from degenerate cases, there are zero or two possible conics; there's an easy way to test which one of those is the case; and a not too hard way to solve the conic, though harder than for five points. 
< 1567029338 557011 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yellow book actually describes the case of computing a conic from four points and one tangent, but it doesn't even mention the more tricky case of three points and two tangents. 
< 1567029348 568077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know about that one from the wob.
< 1567029365 593045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want me to spoil some of that later, you can ask me.
< 1567029365 682280 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from what?)
< 1567029375 921537 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay!
< 1567029377 403069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: parables seem to be rare. Ellipses on the other hand...
< 1567029398 134792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote parable
< 1567029399 130020 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1060) <kmc> ah yes, like the parable of jesus feeding the masses with expired jell-o
< 1567029409 962021 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: though currently I’m not interesting in going on a tangent
< 1567029414 667629 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp parable
< 1567029416 401354 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1567029419 142035 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :roflwut
< 1567029425 772272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yellow book is Richter Gerbert: "Perspectives on Projective Geometry", Springer (2019). It was one of the best purchases I've done this year.
< 1567029445 400847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: is that a pun
< 1567029462 74735 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is what a pun?
< 1567029477 506227 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perspective in connection with projective geometry
< 1567029485 164420 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the book title is a pun
< 1567029569 171267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other three geometry reference books on my shelf next to this one tell very little of this stuff, though they do tell some other useful info.
< 1567029583 145707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's a certain pun potential in "purchase", but it's not realized in your statement.
< 1567029605 790331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hajós does tell some of the basics, like about the equation of comics in general and classifying them.
< 1567029640 17775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well yes, I rarely make English puns
< 1567029764 739018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned friend fungot, has SGDQ 2019 started yet?
< 1567029764 909552 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: unless it uses recursion or something. " i'll let you know
< 1567029775 682183 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks, that'll be great
< 1567029786 822783 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the games may have recursion
< 1567029851 147852 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:7c7e:6916:e395:5fa4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1567029854 228031 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, good night to all
< 1567029856 352208 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-19.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1567029872 366741 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: maybe you also do know when my chkdsk will finish, too?
< 1567029872 657783 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: the package name, obviously. ( wondering why i thought it was c, i don't see
< 1567029906 94445 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they too make puns, about seeing C, but none about chkdsk
< 1567029964 416688 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm chkdsk
< 1567029994 612652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(chkdsk should just fsck off)
< 1567030004 350970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not good, but it's a pun)
< 1567030045 682048 :hppavilion[1]!~omegasome@172.98.86.92 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
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< 1567030691 9334 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lol
< 1567030783 742841 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was going to suggest a thing and then forgot it
< 1567030805 417469 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbolic good, parabolic good and elliptic good!
< 1567030820 772522 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or evil
< 1567030866 583727 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the other way: lawful ellipse, chaotic ellipse and what is the other… neutral ellipse
< 1567031082 48893 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm speaking of what, I’ve seen a 3×3 table of planar geometries in a geometric book. One axis was how angles behave (elliptic, parabolic, hyperbolic) and the other was the more known one, whether the quadratic form is ++ euclidean, +0 “galilean” (how is it called?) or +− pseudoeuclidean
< 1567031106 16296 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the only ones with some properties, I don’t remember which ones
< 1567031137 703434 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, they are all constant-curvature
< 1567031170 245241 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I mixed something up
< 1567031206 671402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the angles behave is precisely what is the signature of the quadratic form, it was some other property
< 1567031342 342934 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, euclidean-0 should be the usual euclidean plane, euclidean-+ should be the elliptic plane and euclidean-− should be the hyperbolic plane
< 1567031401 467959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it should be the sign of the constant curvature, though I don’t remember if it was defined in this way, and certainly the curvature wasn’t defined there for a general case
< 1567031415 574014 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.17.18.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I’m done
> 1567031573 537363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:SoundOfScripting14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65760&oldid=65719 5* 03SoundOfScripting 5* (-21) 10Okay now I can be dormant again.
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