< 1566610198 698576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we can't be sure that an md5sum quine exists for that particular case. < 1566610288 276621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all theoretical anyway. < 1566611241 771270 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1566611649 90432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ah that was the chance that no such quine exists. Math is hard. < 1566611781 296634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: progress: wc quine.s2i --> 15577 123672 574944 quine.s2i (down from 36687 291488 1354436) < 1566611816 69877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes less than 20 minutes to run now too. :) < 1566611818 838662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1566612076 869032 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566612517 180165 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1566612775 986947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65608&oldid=65581 5* 03A 5* (+579) 10 < 1566613212 289832 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 < 1566616766 271978 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566617466 894102 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote this instruction set document: https://arin.ga/3RKb8w < 1566617946 935532 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what exactly is this arch for < 1566618014 609726 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing; I just made it up because I thought to write something < 1566618154 267705 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1566622801 900198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any other comments or just ":P"? < 1566623256 158598 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, not really < 1566623468 263718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1566623731 358521 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1566625079 140014 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566625715 940675 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-58-74.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1566627275 626889 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65609&oldid=65608 5* 03A 5* (+103) 10 > 1566627574 858303 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65610&oldid=65609 5* 03A 5* (+74) 10 > 1566627698 134809 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65611&oldid=65610 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10 < 1566628052 997761 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566628164 268661 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1566628178 523376 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566629271 207626 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1566629493 976336 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric > 1566630056 970621 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65612&oldid=65611 5* 03A 5* (+50) 10 < 1566630111 986145 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1566630356 154646 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65613&oldid=65612 5* 03A 5* (+72) 10 < 1566632458 598154 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566632743 595046 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1566632913 124999 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65614&oldid=65613 5* 03A 5* (+19) 10 < 1566633861 228645 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1566635514 713127 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1566635645 126090 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566635907 2057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: great > 1566637908 764825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65615&oldid=65614 5* 03A 5* (+136) 10 > 1566638284 283989 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65616&oldid=65588 5* 03Dtuser1337 5* (+0) 10/* Emoji-gramming */ formatting variable just in case. > 1566638355 757368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65617&oldid=65615 5* 03A 5* (+181) 10 < 1566639017 480905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: still working on that, 9520 lines now, and I have one significant idea left... < 1566639124 981678 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(getting below 10k is nice because it shortens the labels) < 1566639224 510777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1566639363 303078 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm really writing Haskell code, of course.) < 1566639406 345780 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a code generation monad and `mdo`s everywhere... < 1566639455 190291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1566639627 279511 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.debian.net/1097189/ is the non-creative part, just the monad and pretty-printing, and support for strings. < 1566639840 722318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo? Golly. < 1566639896 568775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's great for dealing with forward references!@ < 1566639900 520436 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/@// < 1566639934 150812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdo goto x; char 'z'; x <- lab <* char 'x'; return () < 1566640155 594504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i { Label x = new_label(); goto(x); ...; set_label(x); ... } < 1566640227 39124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's probably what I'd do without lazy evaluation. < 1566640277 953687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what a nicer way to express that without laziness is. < 1566640289 129807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: note also that this is one of those use cases where performance really hardly matters. If I get my quine in a second I'm happy. > 1566643490 285843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Blackspace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65618&oldid=65617 5* 03A 5* (+42) 10 < 1566644442 915172 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: write it as { x:; ...; come_from(x); ... } then there's no forward reference < 1566645557 727795 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'm seriously reaching the point of diminishing returns. (Or the point of no return, who knows.) < 1566645617 718740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll stop here, at 8940 lines. < 1566646206 398999 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast does it run? < 1566646647 505069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://gist.github.com/int-e/57eefc6cce29ed47ddaaca13a0774533 < 1566646657 370289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes less than 6 minutes now < 1566646670 936996 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So still slow, but much better than where I started :) < 1566646690 935043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 5m45.328s < 1566646830 593422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a faster interpreter would help too) < 1566646861 904049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100 / (36687/9130)^2 < 1566646863 998306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.193229241204714 < 1566646872 965020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly quadratic :) < 1566646894 711297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100 / (36687/8940)^2 < 1566646896 675114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.938142812200899 < 1566647929 782373 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I actually developed full boolean operations for SMETANA (representing booleans by pairs of operations... the second one is there so that they can be negated) but for the quine I got rid of most of that infrastructure. > 1566650170 884855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SMETANA To Infinity!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65619&oldid=64372 5* 03Int-e 5* (+262) 10link to quine > 1566651518 100299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Areallycoolusername14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65620&oldid=65602 5* 03A 5* (-389) 10My brain went stupid. < 1566651892 951306 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-usyduyjtmfhhyzpc JOIN :#esoteric < 1566651967 3454 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566652223 976513 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1566655381 571820 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you recommend me a firefox plugin where I can set rules to rewrite urls when I follow a link, to load a different page instead? This is something that perhaps ais523 would like too, with his local copy of rust documentation. < 1566655422 148360 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it for the url of top-level pages only, not for frames/images/stylesheets < 1566655482 155004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use moz-rewrite, which can also rewrite request and response headers too < 1566655502 318216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thanks, I'll try that < 1566657148 304558 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1566658383 115524 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is that a firefox add-on? my firefox browser doesn't seem to find it under that name < 1566658443 598728 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566658717 595773 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:c5b5:327a:38a6:c190 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1566658985 213079 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566659202 506545 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Firefox add-on < 1566660487 204075 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 > 1566662247 598696 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SMETANA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65621&oldid=49752 5* 03Int-e 5* (+34) 10/* Computational class */ SMETANA can iterate, putting it into the LBA class rather than mere decision trees. < 1566662764 253343 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566663208 882769 :unlimiter!~unlimiter@41.141.56.194 QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.5 > 1566663957 485961 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:SMETANA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65622&oldid=8203 5* 03Int-e 5* (+2388) 10Boolean-oriented programming in SMETANA > 1566664066 930871 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:SMETANA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65623&oldid=65622 5* 03Int-e 5* (-3) 10/* Basic Programming */ formatting (should have previewed) < 1566664089 244441 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think I'm done with SMETANA / SMETANA To Infinity! < 1566664893 993600 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:3d8e:fd28:8db6:6d83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566664985 993215 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566665160 32244 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:3d8e:fd28:8db6:6d83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1566665247 973920 :tromp_!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1566665440 239064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1566667500 184106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566667548 707663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are there interesting esolangs where you don't have the property that you can easily make a program longer/different with something like a nop? ← languages like the I/D machine and cyclic tag, adding a byte anywhere normally implies restructuring the rest of the program to accommodate it (but there are fairly well-established techniques for doing so) < 1566667567 566689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you treat comments as either not permitted or not NOPs < 1566667715 861129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't that only if you don't originally plan for that and don't put enough padding statements? < 1566667729 513832 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566667788 16709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in the case of the I/D machine there are only a few places you /can/ safely put padding < 1566667871 549811 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566667963 926317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, for the I/D machine that's tricky < 1566668100 199517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1566668172 119223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem with JSON is that you can't put comments or trailing commas. It would also be good to allow unquoted keys (in addition to quoted keys), though. (There are also some types not available in JSON, such as integers (JavaScript now has it, with a "n" suffix to indicate a integer), and type annotations (the parser in use would have to know what to do with it, otherwise it is an error).) < 1566668346 77710 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would JSON support comments. It's not for human consumption! < 1566668375 857020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566668486 854846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is useful if you want to write it manually, which sometimes would be. (A converter is possible, but that still doesn't support integers.) < 1566668840 496280 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1566669145 715467 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566669215 839702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1566669227 959903 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566669353 280620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1566669731 846635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sometimes you can put comments in fields that the reading program will ignore < 1566669739 785269 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1566669843 783382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I want to advertise JSON < 1566669882 515164 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another of those things like XML where it would never occur to me to use it on my own initiative. I've only parsed JSON when there was already another party up that produced it. < 1566670362 76849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1566671747 318821 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566671940 210236 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1566672534 597871 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Because the lack of concessions JSON makes to non-machine use are to blame for people using YAML? :) < 1566672549 795730 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww that's even worse < 1566672553 260115 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1566672554 23669 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1566672614 600220 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :.oO(am I allowed to say that? jevalbot uses a config file in YAML format. but I wrote that ages ago and I'm no longer maintaining it.) < 1566672644 695195 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I think you are. YAML is pretty miserable as a config file format. < 1566672649 735211 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've had all that much exposure to YAML < 1566672652 760571 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a major use of it. < 1566672671 688788 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's one of those formats that initially looks simple, but has dragons within. < 1566672696 573044 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've touched a travis.yml file, I suppose. It wasn't so bad to write. I don't want to know about parsing. < 1566672731 388854 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#Advanced_components < 1566672767 92772 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah I was happier not knowing that. < 1566672768 956174 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't see what else you'd want to use it other than as a config file format. it's basically designed for that, because you can write it in various forms so it's hard to read. < 1566672778 460124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm not sure that JSON is to blame specifically. < 1566672788 955484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be possible maybe to use a subset of YAML, maybe < 1566672803 585266 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's designed as a config file format, but it's also way too powerful as one. < 1566672804 983621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would more generally blame XML (which has been used as a configuration file format...) < 1566672873 929538 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what is good for configuration format can also depend on the program being configured; sometimes is helpful to have more than one file. < 1566672894 24312 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily that's not too common. I can only recall one software that uses XML as a config file format: fontconfig. < 1566672903 533274 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But honestly I have not given much thought to configuration file formats. I guess I find the [section] key=value format simple and sufficient for many uses < 1566672917 286925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSON and INI are also used, and also a variant of INI without section headings, and also X resource manager format. < 1566672923 25379 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You'd probably like TOML < 1566672951 957761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Do you mean INI format? < 1566672965 819019 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the _easiest_, but it's reasonable enough. < 1566672975 671421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doesn't look too bad < 1566673099 998590 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do see XML used for a lot of stuff that XML isn't so good for. < 1566673115 465195 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For most things, XML is not good for, I think.) < 1566673163 670283 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the main problem with INI is it's not especially well-specified as a format. < 1566673215 758813 :pikhq!~pikhq@97-118-196-215.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if it's suitable for your purposes there's nothing stopping you from just _saying_ exactly what your program thinks an "INI file" is. < 1566673271 192426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The context I was wondering about that in originally was something like making the busy beaver function not monotonic. < 1566673667 538578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah I meant INI format < 1566673728 942980 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: agree about underspecification of INI. When someone needs arrays or hierarchical sections, there’s only lore, and no guarantee there are no conflicting traditions < 1566673892 370347 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the very basic cases it’s okay, but I’m glad TOML is getting some traction (I heard about it in Ceylon community some time ago, it was being implemented for something in one of its tools) < 1566674282 794549 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for one thing, AFAIR XML is a giant of a format. Though I don’t know how it compares to something like YAML, by the way what do you people think about YAML? It should be a great deal to parse, maybe even harder than XML?,, < 1566674320 330700 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1566674325 286947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1566674360 923195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is much less hard to parse if you don't expand entities (which most parsers do anyway to ignore security bugs) and ignore xml namespaces (which you can mostly do if you don't care about accepting some false positives with incorrect namespaces) < 1566674403 968131 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was actually being talked about prior to my entrance < 1566674431 8061 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ah and the previous one are about YAML) < 1566674546 790708 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-usyduyjtmfhhyzpc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1566674569 563553 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many other format, and which one will be good can depend different thing. I think sometimes X resource manager format can be good < 1566674803 981499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one day I thought about an extended SGML-like format in which you can write something like this: < 1566674804 100150 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< if <[ cond ]> then <[ block1 ]> else <[ block2 ]> if >> where cond, block1 and block2 can be “tags” too and usual tag arguments can still be given too, though they can maybe now be obsoleted < 1566675024 516598 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used other delimiters than << <[ ]> >> but can’t remember which ones exactly < 1566675060 555608 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that time they looked meaningfully sensible < 1566675118 179492 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it can be simply then< b1 >else< b2 >if> but that would be hard to read < 1566675221 179540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that time they looked meaningfully sensible" => so did "((!!ifdef " when I made Olvashato. it does look rather stupid in retrospect. < 1566675382 110226 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a complete tangent, sometimes I want to read “destiny” as “density” < 1566675788 691440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i probability destiny function < 1566676051 902095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( you're headed for a great destiny ) < 1566676128 73184 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it's not all that easy to come up with contexts where both words make sense :) < 1566676129 502947 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"or die; while(<$I>){ if(/^[^- ]/) { ($w) = m"^[(]*([\x27.\-/A-Za-z]+)[!*)]*$" or die "syn: $_"; ($a,$b)=$w=~/^(?=(.)).*(.)\.?$/ or die; $k=lc($a.$b.join("",sort $w=~/./g)); if(6<=length$w && $k{$k}) { print "$k{$k}:$w\n" } $k{$k}//=$w; } } # arseniiv: < 1566676130 453164 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect:except \ conversation:conservation \ reserve:reverse \ aboard:abroad \ caller:cellar \ density:destiny \ bedroom:boredom \ casual:causal \ converse:conserve \ gateway:getaway \ median:maiden \ marital:martial \ preserve:perverse \ patrol:portal \ tribune:turbine \ barely:barley \ carving:craving \ eternity:entirety \ insect:incest \ mental:mantel \ parental:paternal \ parental:prenatal \ resource:recourse \ silver:sliver \ bowler:blower \ clobber:co < 1566676175 65057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this, anagrams where first and last letter agree? < 1566676199 570693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1566676204 556371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least 6 letters long < 1566676241 509546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"or die; while(<$I>){ if(/^[^- ]/) { ($w) = m"^[(]*([\x27.\-/A-Za-z]+)[!*)]*$" or die "syn: $_"; ($a,$b)=$w=~/^(?=(.)).*(.)\.?$/ or die; $k=lc($a.$b.join("",sort $w=~/./g)); if(length($w)<6 && $k{$k}) { print "$k{$k}:$w\n" } $k{$k}//=$w; } } # these are the shorter ones < 1566676242 583868 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there:three \ from:form \ board:broad \ trail:trial \ could:cloud \ bread:beard \ diary:dairy \ stake:skate \ crab:carb \ calm:clam \ carve:crave \ rogue:rouge \ stain:satin \ slate:stale \ wrap:warp \ bolt:blot \ barn:bran \ coral:carol \ crap:carp \ clot:colt \ grab:garb \ lion:loin \ panel:penal \ slit:silt \ smile:slime \ trap:tarp \ trot:tort \ unite:untie \ adobe:abode \ bulge:bugle \ crony:corny \ fart:frat \ forth:froth \ liar:lair \ prep:perp \ pl < 1566676282 573410 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh a great food for thought < 1566676308 414838 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m glad I started a fruitful conservation < 1566676322 7343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"or die; while(<$I>){ if(/^[^- ]/) { ($w) = m"^[(]*([\x27.\-/A-Za-z]+)[!*)]*$" or die "syn: $_"; ($a,$b)=$w=~/^(?=(.)).*(.)\.?$/ or die; $k=lc($a.$b.join("",sort $w=~/./g)); if(length($w)<6 && $k{$k} && 24<=%_c++) { print "$k{$k}:$w\n" } $k{$k}//=$w; } } < 1566676324 855784 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify hash dereference in postincrement (++) at -e line 1, near "%_c++" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. < 1566676332 110521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"or die; while(<$I>){ if(/^[^- ]/) { ($w) = m"^[(]*([\x27.\-/A-Za-z]+)[!*)]*$" or die "syn: $_"; ($a,$b)=$w=~/^(?=(.)).*(.)\.?$/ or die; $k=lc($a.$b.join("",sort $w=~/./g)); if(length($w)<6 && $k{$k} && 24<=$_c++) { print "$k{$k}:$w\n" } $k{$k}//=$w; } } < 1566676332 445213 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh carp < 1566676333 259866 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smile:slime \ trap:tarp \ trot:tort \ unite:untie \ adobe:abode \ bulge:bugle \ crony:corny \ fart:frat \ forth:froth \ liar:lair \ prep:perp \ ploy:poly \ slide:sidle \ salt:slat \ spine:snipe \ cold:clod \ curd:crud \ flier:filer \ grid:gird \ gutsy:gusty \ slave:salve \ tenor:toner \ scrap:scarp \ today:toady \ brain:bairn \ meaty:matey \ stair:sitar \ bard:brad \ pasty:patsy \ sole:sloe < 1566676341 944099 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eopen$I,"<","share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"or die; while(<$I>){ if(/^[^- ]/) { ($w) = m"^[(]*([\x27.\-/A-Za-z]+)[!*)]*$" or die "syn: $_"; ($a,$b)=$w=~/^(?=(.)).*(.)\.?$/ or die; $k=lc($a.$b.join("",sort $w=~/./g)); if(6<=length($w) && $k{$k} && 24<=$_c++) { print "$k{$k}:$w\n" } $k{$k}//=$w; } } < 1566676342 884682 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bowler:blower \ clobber:cobbler \ complaint:compliant \ cruelty:cutlery \ filtration:flirtation \ farmer:framer \ infarction:infraction \ relive:revile \ barely:bleary \ blotter:bottler \ binary:brainy \ brasserie:brassiere \ cavern:craven \ coroner:crooner \ crusty:curtsy \ lentil:lintel \ perfect:prefect \ reunite:retinue \ specter:scepter \ singer:signer \ stripe:sprite \ spotlight:stoplight \ unrelated:unaltered \ brocade:barcode \ grenade:grandee \ ga < 1566676595 44381 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm by the way anybody knows of some interjection/imitation word dictionaries for English in text form? It’s hard for non-native (I think many here would understand) to use usual dictionaries to master them > 1566676620 882134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* 10New user account < 1566676624 953491 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think those are used in Japanese only < 1566676667 908796 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I happen to describe a bunch of my recordings at Freesound.org, I often struggle to find good tags and write something useful in the description < 1566676686 487482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why? how? < 1566676804 813547 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something like Urban dictionary has them all and even more, but I’m still at a loss about a techique how to use it effectively so I don’t use it at all > 1566676851 912644 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65624&oldid=65597 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+257) 10 < 1566676911 922499 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it would at least need filtering, both of definitions and by “word alignment”) < 1566676914 135333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :InfiniteDonuts <- that's a lot of holes > 1566676985 378674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:InfiniteDonuts14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65625 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+235) 10Created page with "Hi! I am InfiniteDonuts. I joined Esolang because one of my favorite things to code are strange, hilarious or difficult esoteric programming languages. I have so far created..." < 1566677012 81639 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm donuts allow one to encode sufficiently complex structures to make an esolang? < 1566677072 9234 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a donut inside of a donut, can one (un)wind the first around the hole of the second? < 1566677297 489628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: if you're very good at food sculpture, you could probably program Efghij by sculpting imitations of objects from donuts < 1566677326 255187 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1566677331 763620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to bake the donuts unusually structurally stable though < 1566677397 360894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: or move into a low gravity environment < 1566677406 947693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm > 1566677412 611318 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65626 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+223) 10Created page with "Flop is a 2-dimensional esoteric programming language created by ~~~~InfiniteDonuts. Flop is probably Turing-complete." < 1566677439 860818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but then it becomes less enjoyable to eat the program > 1566677451 784109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65627&oldid=65626 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (-78) 10 < 1566677453 358143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of using donuts if you can't eat them in the end? < 1566677577 254187 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh my goodness what a language < 1566677614 614225 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why, one can eat them in low gravity, why not? > 1566677615 249356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65628&oldid=65627 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+234) 10 < 1566677625 873146 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren’t liquid after all < 1566677639 996622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you can, I'm not saying it's impossible, it just gets less convenient or less enjoyable > 1566677661 960861 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Flop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65629&oldid=65628 5* 03InfiniteDonuts 5* (+29) 10 < 1566677773 991553 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though low gravity is cheating < 1566677839 59310 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it just gets less convenient or less enjoyable => maybe the first but why the second? what can be more enjoyable than free falling and eating a lot of structurally unstable donuts < 1566677843 835161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1566677868 901119 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum yum < 1566677883 180327 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though donuts are the devil as I had said a while ago < 1566677904 41625 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep > 1566678238 339319 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Majestic53 5* 10New user account < 1566678642 720454 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566678777 255551 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1566678814 374079 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1566678887 784971 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65630&oldid=65624 5* 03Majestic53 5* (+247) 10 > 1566679055 134354 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BytePusher14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65631&oldid=60981 5* 03Majestic53 5* (+106) 10 < 1566679608 330497 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566679778 312314 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1566680774 565360 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.224.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1566681610 95807 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1566683253 607810 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566683662 216689 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1566684058 313917 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1566686055 990117 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1566686116 295885 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :donuts!! < 1566686120 315578 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ate a chocolate donut today < 1566686128 37614 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as my wife said "nothing says I love you and care about you like a donut" < 1566686323 973545 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:69de:a374:cb3d:c9a7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1566686524 240453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566686678 329945 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1566687788 951414 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1566687972 201487 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98995.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1566688518 600279 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eryhsmlqlzvraghj JOIN :#esoteric < 1566689279 826285 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, bystand can post each message to only one server. I intend I can add the possibility to post to multiple servers, in case you are posting to multiple newsgroups, some of which are not Usenet. However, it seems would be more difficult to keep track of it in case one posting is successful but posting to a different server failed. < 1566689352 98969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1566689600 585135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have suggestions about this? < 1566689634 154303 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if I mentioned yet, but the ICFP contest results are out < 1566689656 79600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Do you have the link of the details? < 1566689692 268903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-165.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://icfpcontest2019.github.io/ and https://icfpcontest2019.github.io/assets/icfpc19-report.pdf