00:00:35 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Davipb * New user account
00:04:32 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65247&oldid=65196 * Davipb * (+158) My introduction
00:07:25 <b_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/2834969/20190804/
00:07:25 <HackEso> bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.smackjeeves.com/comics/2834969/20190804/: b_jonas
00:22:51 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving).
00:59:55 <zzo38> Do you like Hollerith chording?
01:27:05 -!- FreeFull has quit.
03:14:52 <esowiki> [[Talk:ACL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65248&oldid=65150 * A * (+210)
03:17:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:ACL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65249&oldid=65248 * A * (+371)
03:22:00 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
04:13:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:ACL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65250&oldid=65249 * A * (-370) /* C Interpreter */
04:39:49 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:05:50 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65251&oldid=65244 * A * (+33)
05:11:31 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
05:15:18 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65252&oldid=65251 * A * (-102)
05:20:16 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65253&oldid=65252 * A * (+7) /* All prime numbers less than I */
05:21:50 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
05:28:03 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
05:29:14 -!- moei has joined.
05:33:54 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65254&oldid=65253 * A * (+85)
05:35:09 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65255&oldid=65254 * A * (-50)
06:19:48 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
06:30:07 <esowiki> [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65256&oldid=57231 * A * (+43) /* APL */
06:30:28 <esowiki> [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65257&oldid=65256 * A * (+51) /* APL */
06:32:37 <esowiki> [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65258&oldid=65257 * A * (+82) /* APL */
06:58:28 -!- x003n has joined.
06:58:49 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65259&oldid=65255 * A * (+310)
07:00:56 -!- x003n has left ("Leaving").
07:29:52 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
07:32:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
07:40:08 -!- andrewtheircer has joined.
07:40:38 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
07:47:49 <fungot`> int-e: isn't that kind of idea of letting %app %datum and friends in r5. r4 didn't even have modem iirc
07:48:09 <int-e> finally something that makes sense.
07:48:18 -!- Fatalize has joined.
07:49:18 -!- Fatalize has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:54:40 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
08:07:33 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:11:24 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
08:49:31 -!- ieuaeiau has joined.
08:49:59 -!- ieuaeiau has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:25:57 -!- andrewtheircer has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:27:29 -!- andrewtheircer has joined.
09:37:20 -!- andrewtheircer has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:49:50 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65260&oldid=65259 * A * (-147)
09:56:10 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65261&oldid=65260 * A * (-596) Simpler set syntax
10:00:31 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65262&oldid=65261 * A * (+173)
10:02:04 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Subset]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65263&oldid=65262 * A * (+15) /* Set-comparison instructions */
10:17:45 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65264 * A * (+2717) Ctrl+C Ctrl+V
10:18:03 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65265&oldid=65264 * A * (+0)
10:21:31 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65266&oldid=65265 * A * (-532)
10:22:17 <esowiki> [[Multi-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65267&oldid=56744 * A * (+47)
10:22:28 <esowiki> [[Multi-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65268&oldid=65267 * A * (-66)
10:28:13 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65269&oldid=65266 * A * (-71) /* Set-manipulational instructions */ Hmm...
10:30:50 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65270&oldid=65269 * A * (-104) = reversed operands = reversed operands = reversed operands = reversed operands
10:32:08 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65271&oldid=65270 * A * (-24) /* Logical instructions */ I don't see how they are useful
10:46:26 -!- andrewtheircer has joined.
10:53:05 -!- andrewtheircer has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:20:03 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
11:28:47 -!- cpressey has joined.
11:31:07 <cpressey> Good afternoon. I am unhappy to report that making a second-order purely concatenative language does not help it express control. Monoids are sequential, control is branching.
11:32:57 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
11:34:21 <cpressey> If the objects under composition aren't functions, but something examinable (extensional?) like lists, then maybe. But in a strict definition of "concatenative" they're always described as functions.
11:36:33 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
11:37:18 <wob_jonas> perhaps my hon. and learned friend fungot knows a way to make a second order concatenative language?
11:37:18 <fungot`> wob_jonas: i have another feeling. no, i mean the right thing
11:37:34 <cpressey> Conventionally, concatenative languages allow functions to be named. Only the function definitions are monoids. The program as a whole is a... some sort of DAG.
11:38:36 <cpressey> I'm sure fungot knows a way -- the problem is our inability to understand what it means.
11:38:36 <fungot`> cpressey: i mean complex examples ( window managers, so i don't know enough. there should exist an implementation which is fast. especially for allocation of n bytes might be: why do you need
11:45:12 <int-e> cpressey: http://www.nyu.edu/projects/barker/Iota/zot.html is vaguely related to this problem
11:52:17 <int-e> cpressey: (The connection being that it uses CPS to extract a tree structure from a linear representation. It's not quite concatenative as is (that needs another level of CPS) and it's untyped, probably inherently so.)
11:52:38 <int-e> (Definitely not just second order.)
11:55:11 <int-e> (Funny how things go. I've encountered Zot yesterday mainly because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot#Jot is wrong.)
11:56:11 <int-e> Oh and I can't correct it. "You are currently unable to edit Wikipedia."
12:01:12 -!- myname has joined.
12:04:26 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65272&oldid=65240 * Areallycoolusername * (+229) Telling User: A how I made another language. WIP
12:04:56 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65273&oldid=65272 * Areallycoolusername * (+117) typo
12:09:30 <cpressey> I'm actually somewhat wrong too. You can have control structures, they just have to look like this: x;y;while(a){z;q;if(b){r;p;while(c){q;m;n;}}}
12:09:51 <cpressey> You can't "un-nest" after you put one in.
12:10:27 <cpressey> I mean, I think this is how it works out.
12:10:47 <wob_jonas> cpressey: what if you use the techniques of Lambda: the Gathering, where you can apply a function either from the left or from the right, and you emulate that with second order concatenative?
12:11:37 <cpressey> wob_jonas: I'm not familiar with Lambda: the Gathering.
12:11:53 <wob_jonas> cpressey: there ought to be a link from the wiki
12:12:09 <wob_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lambda:_the_Gathering
12:16:29 <wob_jonas> admittedly that one cheats, you can compose functions only because of the mutable slots
12:16:37 <wob_jonas> you can write to slots and read them
12:16:56 <cpressey> No idea offhand how that would work with this, sorry.
12:29:04 <esowiki> [[Wang program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65274&oldid=46766 * YamTokTpaFa * (+11) Why not use ref and references tags?
12:45:16 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
12:50:55 <cpressey> I think what I've got is TC, so there's no problem there, but it's TC in a "technically TC" rather than in an expressive way. You put a single top-level while around the whole thing, and you can simulate a UTM. Not unlike Burro (and I'm sure others.)
12:51:28 <cpressey> But it's slightly interesting in its own way, so I'll probably continue on it.
12:52:46 <cpressey> "Concatentive with continuations" sounds interesting enough in *its* own way too though.
12:53:17 <int-e> . o O ( Rust's style for type annotations looks *wrong* to me: let i: u32 = 4; rather than let i : u32 = 4; )
12:53:17 <cpressey> Some people say "concatenative" is just a buzzword. Sometimes I agree with them. I've never really made up my mind on that.
12:54:14 <cpressey> int-e: maybe I'm getting old, the only difference I see is whitespace?
12:54:30 <Taneb> I imagine "concatenative" is like "functional", it means different things to different people
12:55:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: I think either of those work
12:57:23 <int-e> wob_jonas: I wrote "style" and I'm under the impression that https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch03-02-data-types.html is somewhat authoritative.
12:57:52 <int-e> cpressey: I'm very white-space sensitive when it comes to programming.
13:03:39 -!- myname has joined.
13:07:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:Nellephant]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=65275 * Davipb * (+801) Possible cat program
13:08:06 <int-e> It also says something about how long I haven't touched Pascal.
13:13:41 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65276&oldid=65273 * A * (+228) /* Concern */
13:15:53 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:27:07 <cpressey> In other news, I've learned (after a large amount of hunting around) that, while they are all similar, equational logic is not the same thing as equational propositional logic and is also not the same thing as equivalential calculus.
13:28:02 <wob_jonas> cpressey: hmm. is there also {equational,equivalential} {algebra,analysis}?
13:30:31 <int-e> equivalential calculus seems to have almost nothing to do with equational logic... seeing that \equiv is only used between propositions.
13:38:09 <int-e> Oh well from a classical perspective neither equational propositional logic not equivalential calculus seem very interesting.
13:38:42 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65277&oldid=65276 * A * (+195) /* Concern */
13:41:07 <cpressey> Equational propositional logic seems to have been invented by Gries to make discrete math easier to teach to undergrads. Which is fine, but WP's article on Equational logic conflates it with equational logic.
13:41:32 -!- xkapastel has joined.
13:42:12 <int-e> Well, equational logic works on terms... which allows a very rich structure, especially if you allow additional equational axioms.
13:42:59 <int-e> So yeah, the Wikipedia page is quite misleading.
13:43:25 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65278&oldid=65277 * A * (+227) /* Concern */
13:43:44 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65279&oldid=65278 * A * (+158) /* Concern */ Whoops, forgot to sign
13:43:59 <int-e> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EquationalLogic.html is much better
13:44:13 <int-e> (in particular by the inclusion of congruence)
13:44:45 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65280&oldid=65271 * A * (-29) /* Built-in Sets */
13:45:18 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65281&oldid=65279 * A * (-78) /* Concern */ So am I
13:45:42 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65282&oldid=65281 * A * (-307) /* Concern */ I also take that much time to write an interpreter.
13:45:46 <int-e> cpressey: did you see the Wikipedia talk page?
13:46:50 <cpressey> int-e: No, haven't yet. But a lot of my own confusion cleared up after I started reading some course notes on a course on universal algebra. And coincidentally stumbling across equivalential calculus.
13:46:59 <int-e> too bad nobody seems to have acted on this.
13:47:34 <int-e> FWIW both equivalential calculus and equational propisitional logic were new to me.
13:48:00 <int-e> *propositional. Wow, I find this very hard to type :)
13:48:40 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65283&oldid=65282 * Areallycoolusername * (+313)
13:49:16 <int-e> cpressey: There is not much on the talk page, except that it points out the same problem of conflating equational logic and equational propositional logic that you've also pointed out.
13:49:20 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65284&oldid=65280 * A * (-104) /* Logical instructions */ They are useless for now. Done in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Multi-Set_Manipulator/Subset
13:49:52 <cpressey> int-e: Yeah, if I had read it earlier... oh well
13:49:53 <wob_jonas> ais523: re https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-07-30.html#lxh virtual addresses on current cpus, there's a draft since 2016 for how x86 can extend to more than 48 bits of virtual address space https://software.intel.com/en-us/download/5-level-paging-and-5-level-ept-white-paper . It's not in any current or near future cpus, but it's at least recognized t
13:49:54 <wob_jonas> hat they'll probably eventually need to do this.
13:54:02 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65285&oldid=65283 * A * (+78) /* Concern */
13:59:15 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65286&oldid=65285 * A * (+353) /* Concern */
13:59:59 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65287&oldid=65286 * A * (-77) /* Concern */
14:03:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:04:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65288&oldid=65287 * A * (+7) /* Concern */
14:05:54 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65289&oldid=65284 * A * (-124) /* Miscellaneous instructions */ -2 operators
14:06:09 <cpressey> int-e: I got into this in the first place because I was looking for a system where it is simple to make deductions. Equating two terms is pretty simple... but it turns out Frege's and Hilbert's systems use only modus ponens, and that's pretty simple too.
14:06:53 <cpressey> I was used to natural deduction, which trades off simplicity of the deductive process, for easier use.
14:07:19 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65290&oldid=65288 * A * (-1138) /* Concern */
14:07:54 <cpressey> So I might try implementing a Hilbert-style proof checker instead of going down the equational route.
14:08:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65291&oldid=65192 * A * (-2066)
14:08:41 <esowiki> [[Talk:256]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65292&oldid=65291 * A * (-101)
14:09:40 <int-e> Hilbert just moves all the complexity into axiom schemata :P
14:10:04 <cpressey> I realize that :) I'm also not sure if these actually take away the complexity of implies-introduction or not.
14:10:44 <cpressey> If you still have to do "Suppose x. We show that it entails y. Therefore x -> y" to get a new implication, then that complexity is still there
14:11:09 <int-e> Another trade-off is sequents vs. discharging assumptions...
14:11:31 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65293&oldid=65290 * A * (+211) /* Concern */
14:12:32 <int-e> which is related to what you just wrote... with sequents, you can infer |- x -> y from x |- y. With assumptions, you'll infer x -> y from a proof of y that used x as an assumption.
14:13:08 <int-e> (or possibly didn't use that assumption at all).
14:14:18 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65294&oldid=65293 * A * (-27) /* Concern */
14:16:00 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65295&oldid=65294 * A * (+77) /* Concern */
14:16:11 -!- myname has joined.
14:16:40 <cpressey> Oh is *that* what a sequent is? Okay then!
14:17:19 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65296&oldid=65295 * A * (-1) /* Concern */
14:20:06 <cpressey> I think I half-re-invented it without entirely understanding what it was
14:20:16 <int-e> In its most general form, a sequent is P_1,...,P_n |- Q_1,...,Q_m, and (classically) means that P_1 /\ ... /\ P_n ==> Q_1 \/ ... \/ Q_n. But the common special case where there is exactly one Q_i is still called a sequent.
14:21:49 <int-e> (I'm using ==> with a lower precedence than /\ and \/)
14:22:00 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65297&oldid=65289 * A * (-113) N{0}Z+; Q-Q-(Q+)-{0}; R-R-(R+)-{0};
14:24:36 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65298&oldid=65297 * A * (-47) /* Built-in Sets */ Real numbers are trivial becase there isn't the ... operator anymore in MSM
14:26:39 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65299&oldid=65298 * A * (-90) /* Built-in Sets */ But you can't present decimals either.
14:30:02 <cpressey> Sequent calculus is what they always use for type judgments too, isn't it
14:31:07 <int-e> They tend to use sequents ("judgements") indeed. (I'd be careful with "sequent calculus" because that carries certain inference rules with it, not just the syntax)
14:31:53 <HackEso> sequent calculus? ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:31:59 <wob_jonas> Is that what they use for linear logic?
14:32:09 <cpressey> I kind of got that |- and -> meant the same thing, but it has always been a bit fuzzy
14:33:08 <int-e> Though it's not so easy; the type system judgements often have several kinds of premises (say: types of variables, and values for type variables) and possibly yet another kind on the right-hand side, while (logical) sequents have only propositions.
14:33:45 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65300&oldid=65299 * A * (-35) ~A All items that don't belong to A is useless in actual programming; also, it is impossible to implement.
14:34:03 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65301&oldid=65300 * A * (+17)
14:35:00 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65302&oldid=65301 * A * (+138) /* Built-in Sets */
14:40:53 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65303&oldid=65302 * A * (-7) /* Set-manipulational instructions */ Overly complex.
14:51:30 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65304&oldid=65303 * A * (+9) /* Set-manipulational instructions */
14:52:07 <cpressey> wob_jonas: Linear logic seems usually be presented with sequents, but its inventor would seem to promote using "proof nets" instead
14:52:54 <int-e> Oh I still don't know what a proof net is.
14:54:17 <int-e> I guess I don't want to find out today either.
14:54:28 <wob_jonas> hopefully they're all equivalent syntactic tricks
14:55:01 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65305&oldid=65304 * A * (+90)
15:03:04 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65306&oldid=65305 * A * (+0) /* Built-in Sets */
15:03:30 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65307&oldid=65306 * A * (+0)
15:03:44 <esowiki> [[Multi-Set Manipulator/Smaller]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65308&oldid=65307 * A * (-16) /* Built-in Sets */
15:11:00 <wob_jonas> Did you know that in en.Wikipedia article titles, only three start with an ascii comma, and all three are redirects?
15:11:31 <Taneb> Honestly I'm a little surprised that articles are allowed to begin with a comma
15:11:45 <int-e> , is this a bot prefix? :P
15:11:56 <Taneb> It is in #nixos and probably other places
15:12:04 <int-e> Taneb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/, is something obvious :)
15:12:06 <fungot`> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
15:12:10 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
15:12:30 <Taneb> Maybe I should bring back pietbot
15:13:06 <int-e> boily should bring himself back, and then metasepia.
15:13:48 <int-e> [ how bad are the J error messages?
15:13:48 <j-bot> int-e: |value error: the
15:13:48 <j-bot> int-e: | how bad are the J error messages?
15:14:51 <wob_jonas> I wonder which of those prefixes are abandonned enough that someone else could potentially usurp it if they provide an even marginally useful use for one
15:15:24 <wob_jonas> ) is definitely reusable; ISTR it's left in the fungot prefixes only because that command is implemented in underload and it'd be hard for it to print unbalanced parenthesis
15:15:24 <fungot`> wob_jonas: this reminds me of the conversations i ever have trouble sleeping, i'll ride around in buses. tampere might have, can have pccard for even about 30e, recommended.
15:15:46 <Taneb> Hmm, maybe I should have rode around in buses last night when I couldn't sleep
15:15:55 <Taneb> (I instead read Lord of the Rings for a bit)
15:16:15 <HackEso> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
15:16:35 <int-e> Well I still remember idris-bot.
15:16:59 <wob_jonas> I wonder if that means I should remove right paren from the prefixes wisdom, since that one doesn't have a problem with unbalanced parens
15:17:25 <int-e> I don't remember thutubot, nor jconn; and boith Egobot and metasepia have not been around in the past 5 years?
15:17:48 <int-e> (too many edits. sorry)
15:17:57 <wob_jonas> int-e: jconn was an instance of jevalbot, the same bot that j-bot is also an instance of, evaluates J, and its terrible source code written by me
15:18:14 <wob_jonas> > var"lambdabot listens to greater than too, right?"
15:18:19 <lambdabot> lambdabot listens to greater than too, right?
15:19:16 <HackEso> eval(1p) - construct command by concatenating arguments \ eval(8lambdabot) - no description \ eval(8jevalbot) - evaluate J fret, names in main namespace are persistent
15:20:12 <wob_jonas> I'm particularly curious about the tilde, because it looks like a nice prefix
15:26:52 <int-e> hmm, nobody has complained about the POTM yet.
15:28:57 <HackEso> The password of the month is surprising.
15:29:11 <Taneb> int-e: do people often complain about it?
15:29:19 <int-e> Taneb: constantly.
15:30:00 <int-e> I may be exaggerating slightly :P
15:30:37 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: potm: not found
15:30:39 <HackEso> The Moon is Waxing Crescent (27% of Full)
16:06:01 <HackEso> Today is Boomtime, the 71st day of Confusion in the YOLD 3185
16:07:56 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:10:55 <zzo38> I also wrote a JotaCode program for Discordian calendar, too
16:19:26 <kmc> zzo38: have you read Principia Discordia?
16:20:03 <zzo38> Yes, I have read it
16:24:15 <zzo38> (The code is object #20165 on ifMUD.)
16:27:14 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: A la prochaine.).
17:11:56 -!- FreeFull has joined.
17:50:28 -!- b_jonas has joined.
18:05:35 -!- nfd9001 has joined.
18:10:57 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
18:12:41 -!- xkapastel has joined.
19:15:52 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd wisdom; printf "%s\n" phantom*hoover # what the...
19:15:53 <HackEso> phantom____________________hoover \ phantom__________hoover \ phantom_______hoover \ phantom___hoover \ phantom__hoover \ phantom_hoover
19:17:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
19:24:20 -!- heroux has joined.
19:28:33 -!- lldd_ has joined.
19:35:24 -!- nfd has joined.
19:39:04 -!- nfd9001 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:53:45 <esowiki> [[ACL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=65309&oldid=65246 * Hanzlu * (-163)
20:02:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:07:41 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
20:10:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:10:26 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
20:11:08 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:35:22 -!- pecan has joined.
20:56:00 -!- lldd_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:21:15 <b_jonas> finally! I managed to hit alt-s to open the history menu in firefox. I keep hitting alt-h and then have to correct because alt-h opens the help menu
21:22:21 * kmc mails b_jonas a cake
21:22:48 <shachaf> kmc: can you mail me a cake twh
21:23:22 <kmc> what kind of cake do you guys like
21:23:49 <b_jonas> chocolate with soft sponge layers
21:23:57 <kmc> do you know about Baumkuchen
21:24:03 <kmc> it's a fancy german cake that's baked on a spit
21:24:08 <kmc> layering on batter as you go
21:24:10 <kmc> hence "tree cake"
21:24:39 <shachaf> this is both a description of Baumkichen and a description of the kind of cake i like
21:24:40 <kmc> yes, a horizontal rotating bar
21:24:51 <kmc> as is often used to cook chickens
21:24:53 <shachaf> oh, my birthday happen recently and i got a cake in the mail
21:24:57 <b_jonas> I didn't know "spit" meant that
21:24:59 <kmc> shachaf: really! happy birthday
21:25:02 <kmc> and what kind was it?
21:25:52 <b_jonas> kmc: wow, that was fast! it arrived to shachaf in negative time
21:26:04 <shachaf> unfortuantely i had a fruit fly infestation at the time so leaving the cake out to thaw was a bad idea
21:26:22 <shachaf> by the time i ate it it had flies embedded in it which i tried to remove
21:27:15 <kmc> you should get some carnivorous plants
21:27:33 <shachaf> much more civilized than herbivorous plants
21:27:45 <kmc> parasitic epiphytes?
21:48:35 <shachaf> kmc: did you know this fact:
22:01:17 <zzo38> Cave of Anti-magic {-} Land ;; Shroud ;; {1UU}, {T}, Discard a card: Counter target spell. ;; {1WW}, {T}, Discard a card: Destroy target enchantment.
22:07:00 -!- salpynx has joined.
22:07:15 <kmc> shachaf: plausible
22:10:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: no no. there's a good reason why that sort of repeatable counterspelling without restrictions doesn't appear on M:tG cards, even with the discard cost.
22:11:15 <b_jonas> it doesn't _look_ broken, but I think it would be if they printed it
22:11:16 -!- moei has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
22:11:36 <shachaf> counterspells? i just met 'er!
22:12:04 <b_jonas> and it's not like it didn't occur to Wizards, because they have a lot of spellshapers with a similar discard+{T}+mana cost
22:12:07 <zzo38> Maybe it can be improved
22:12:29 <b_jonas> Dawnstrider is already bad enough
22:14:22 <b_jonas> the enchantment destruction part is probably fine though, see Devout Witness
22:14:50 <b_jonas> if you want to get away with the counterspelling, you'll have to ask some restriction on what spell it can target. there's some versions like that.
22:14:57 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Diplomatic Es
22:15:05 <HackEso> Diplomatic Escort \ 1U \ Creature -- Human Spellshaper \ 1/1 \ {U}, {T}, Discard a card: Counter target spell or ability that targets a creature. \ MM-U
22:15:31 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
22:15:31 <HackEso> Hisoka, Minamo Sensei \ 2UU \ Legendary Creature -- Human Wizard \ 1/3 \ {2}{U}, Discard a card: Counter target spell if it has the same converted mana cost as the discarded card. \ CHK-R
22:15:40 <b_jonas> although... if they can print this:
22:15:47 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Ghost-Lit Warder
22:15:48 <HackEso> Ghost-Lit Warder \ 1U \ Creature -- Spirit \ 1/1 \ {3}{U}, {T}: Counter target spell unless its controller pays {2}. \ Channel -- {3}{U}, Discard Ghost-Lit Warder: Counter target spell unless its controller pays {4}. \ SOK-U
22:15:57 <b_jonas> then maybe you can do an unlimited counterspell too somehow
22:16:20 <b_jonas> I suspect not the way you just tried though
22:17:44 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Stronghold Biol
22:17:45 <HackEso> Stronghold Biologist \ 2U \ Creature -- Human Spellshaper \ 1/1 \ {U}{U}, {T}, Discard a card: Counter target creature spell. \ NE-U
22:17:52 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Stronghold Machi
22:17:52 <HackEso> Stronghold Machinist \ 2U \ Creature -- Human Spellshaper \ 1/1 \ {U}{U}, {T}, Discard a card: Counter target noncreature spell. \ NE-U
22:18:51 <b_jonas> the repeated counter that I use is
22:18:55 <HackEso> Disruptive Pitmage \ 2U \ Creature -- Human Wizard \ 1/1 \ {T}: Counter target spell unless its controller pays {1}. \ Morph {U} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ ONS-C \ \ Disruptive Student \ 2U \ Creature -- Human Wizard \ 1/1 \ {T}: Counter target spell unless its controller pays {1}. \ US-C
22:21:38 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:25:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:29:15 <salpynx> int-e: the Wikipedia Jot entry does seem wrong, do you have a particular correction in mind? I can't quite figure out what a clear improvement would be. 11100 = (ι(ι(ιι)) (= K) seems to be what is intended, but (ιι)(ιι) would be an empty string?
23:30:32 <salpynx> The whole single sentence description of Jot seems like it is flawed, and I'm not sure how to relate it back to the source material, without writing something completely different.