00:01:05 b_jonas: https://arin.ga/5eqtil 00:02:52 thanks 00:06:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:08:42 [[User:Jussef Swissen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64603&oldid=64463 * Jussef Swissen * (+56) 01:08:53 [[User:Jussef Swissen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64604&oldid=64603 * Jussef Swissen * (-1) /* = WIP Ideas */ 01:14:47 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 01:21:31 -!- FreeFull has quit. 02:07:09 [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=64605 * Jussef Swissen * (+1193) Created page with "'''''' is a [[Stack]]-based, functional, and self-modifying esolang made by [[User:Jussef Swissen|Jussef Swissen]]. Its entire command set is in hebrew. == Specific..." 02:30:17 -!- b_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:23 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64606&oldid=64605 * Jussef Swissen * (+4391) Extended the page. 03:39:40 [[User:Jussef Swissen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64607&oldid=64604 * Jussef Swissen * (+18) /* Languages I've made */ 03:46:02 Now I made a Robot Find Kitten game in Glulx, but, more text should be added for the stuff that is not a kitten. 03:54:45 Why would you have anything that isn't a kitten? 03:56:45 Because that is how it is work; that is how they made it 04:06:24 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:11:42 zzo38: I'm playing this game now: https://www.puzzlescript.net/play.html?p=9eb8f8f3df4efb450b798a279eeba2e0 04:11:45 Do you like this? 04:12:53 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64608&oldid=64573 * Jussef Swissen * (+17) /* Non-alphabetic */ 04:21:59 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:24:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:24:47 It is not so bad, I suppose, but, maybe I should want to make with Free Hero Mesh maybe 04:28:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:31:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:33:03 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:34:32 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64609&oldid=64608 * Salpynx * (+0) /* Non-alphabetic */ these are actually sorted, by Unicode code point, Hebrew Ayin to go between Cyrillic and Arabic 04:59:47 zzo38: How far did you get? I think the interesting aspects only show up after a few levels. 05:01:42 I did not get very far, although I haven't tried much either. Maybe another day I might try more though. (I did skip a few levels by moving the levels I wanted to skip to the end, but I like how is done in Hero Mesh, you can skip both backwar and forward as often as you want to, and can record a sequence of moves for each level, also saving and restoring the sequence of moves.) 05:25:38 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:30:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 05:30:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:46:36 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:48:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:03:50 Here is my Robot Find Kitten program: https://arin.ga/gM1bQZ 06:04:21 (More lines of text could be added below "; Text for stuff other than a kitten", but so far I didn't.) 06:06:39 The instruction ":Robot !data 0xC0000000" seem strange (using !data where an instruction is expected), but it happens to be a overlong encoding of a "nop" instruction (normally encoded by the single byte 0x00). 06:08:26 But 0xC0 also indicates the beginning of a function receiving its arguments on the stack (although this function uses no arguments; also note Glulx is big-endian), and then the next two bytes indicate this function has no local variables, and then the first instruction is next, which is a single-byte nop. 06:09:20 Since none of the rest of the instructions in the Redraw function use any local variables, this allows Robot to be executed itself as a function and for the stuff before it to fall through into this function. 06:14:17 Do you like this? 06:29:25 -!- dayus has joined. 06:29:49 -!- dayus has left. 06:31:57 <\oren\> My font now supports klingon pIqaD 06:32:38 <\oren\>  06:32:39 <\oren\>  06:42:14 <\oren\> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/299702207270486016/602751995639627776/unknown.png 06:44:16 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 06:47:26 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:21:35 This new issue of 2600 mentions how to use SSH and HTTP(S) through DNS. 07:51:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:52:32 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 08:45:36 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:46:55 -!- heroux has joined. 09:09:34 -!- arseniiv has joined. 09:14:54 shachaf: hi I’m back! 09:15:38 arsenhiiv 09:16:09 yeah, I know index notation can be understood index-free, I even used it that way several times, though I’m not sure that is elaborated in that book 09:16:54 I gave up splicing times of day in names when tried several times to do it and it seemed impossible :D 09:17:50 Times of day? 09:17:53 Oh. 09:18:16 I thought about trace for a while when falling asleep, but no essential thing arose 09:18:58 oh I meant, how do you put it… it’s not always a greeting either 09:19:33 greetingwell?.. 09:20:43 though I have a very raw thought: maybe trace can be understood as a sort of applying the operator to itself vs. applying it to a covector and a vector (so that in both cases we get a scalar) 09:21:06 I was trying to imagine it in vain and it didn’t happen 09:22:03 what that link you’ve mentioned between trace and fixpoints in monoidal categories is? 09:23:07 Oh, most instances of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traced_monoidal_category have an obvious interpretation in terms of fixed points. 09:23:57 I think it’s more productive to apply it exactly to this category if it’s possible. I think Vec is a somewhat degenerate case of a monoidal catefory, there we for instance don’t have an interesting modal logic thing (as far I understand) 09:24:37 thanks, I’ll look at it! 09:25:56 What's a modal logic thing? 09:26:18 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 09:26:54 oh I meant not a modal logic, a linear one 09:27:46 several months ago I tried to see what it means for Vec and it was all conflated there, & = ⊕ etc. 09:28:43 then I saw why linear spaces aren’t mentioned as examples in texts on linear logic, though both deal with monoidal categories 09:29:35 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:36:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:37:49 arseniiv: Oh, yes, ⊗ = ⅋ in Vec 09:37:59 Which leads to some confusil things. 09:40:10 shachaf: wow, even ⊗ = ⅋? Didn’t thought that far 09:40:39 then it’s a very uninteresting category to do linear logic in, indeed 09:41:56 Isn't it? 10:02:46 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 10:06:00 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:11:53 shachaf: they say a traced category should be cartesian monoidal for those fixpoint things to work, but Vec isn’t, as ⊗ ≠ × there 10:13:02 (but maybe there is a way to make some weak connection) 10:13:27 link: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/traced+monoidal+category#in_cartesian_monoidal_categories 10:14:25 BTW random variable expectation is too a kind of a trace :) it could be interesting somewhere 10:28:40 arseniiv: Oh, that's interesting. I should look at that paper. 10:32:22 I think that statement is weaker than what you said. 10:32:54 It seems to be saying that if your category's monoidal product is the cartesian product, then so-and-so holds, but not to say anything in the case that it isn't? 10:33:16 hm also somewhat off-topically there is a sigfpe post about linear operators presented in a monadic fashion, I wonder if there were means to represent a trace (from what I remember, it’s doubtful, but if he implemented MonadFix, it could be) 10:33:21 shachaf: yeah, right 10:33:30 so there is a slight hope :) 10:34:31 My hope is more than slight. But I don't know how to figure it out exactly. 10:34:51 arseniiv: There's the special case of, uh, semimodules over a boolean semiring, which are called relations, I think. 10:35:05 It's easy to make sense of trace as talking about fixed points in that case. 10:35:39 If your tensor is separable, then the meaning of trace as "connecting the output to the input" is obvious, of course. 10:36:02 I mean, if A_i^j = B_i C^j, then of course A_i^i = B_i C^i 10:36:05 shachaf: are those related to usual n-ary relations? 10:36:20 (pun semi-intended) 10:36:33 Just regular binary relations. Or n-ary in the multilinear case, sure. 10:36:48 ah, yes, I see 10:38:20 In fact there are two different tensor products that give you two reasonable traces. 10:38:49 -!- cpressey has joined. 10:41:45 hm I thought about linear algebra thing in relations (like how the matrix of their composition is a plain matrix multiplication, just, as you mentioned, over a semiring) but not yet about tensor multiplicating relations. For R ⊂ A1 × A2, Q ⊂ B1 × B2, will R1 ⊗ R2 ⊂ (A1 × B1) × (A2 × B2)? 10:42:09 tensor multiplication of* 10:46:38 oh there are more typos 10:46:50 I’ll rephrase completely 10:48:46 let R ⊂ A1 × A2, Q ⊂ B1 × B2; is one of these products R ⊗ Q defined as { ((a1, b1), (a2, b2)) | (a1, a2) ∈ R, (b1, b2) ∈ Q } and what is the second one? 10:49:09 shachaf: now I could ping you :) 10:49:12 -!- MDude has joined. 10:50:16 hm also I think I often misplace “can” and “could” 11:02:32 I'm not sure. 11:02:34 @time 11:02:38 Local time for shachaf is Mon Jul 22 04:02:35 2019 11:02:45 You could ask me after I wake up. 11:05:12 I think maybe I'd expect that a one-dimensional thing would be the identity for a tensor product? 11:15:12 Oh, maybe 3.2 in http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~hassei/papers/tlca97.pdf is relevant. 11:15:15 I'll have to find out tomorrow. 11:15:57 shachaf: sweet dreams :D 11:31:00 I think maybe I'd expect that a one-dimensional thing would be the identity for a tensor product? => I would expect the same, yeah 11:33:57 oh I misplaced what things should be multiplicated. In Rel, objects are A1, A2 from my example, and for what a reason then I try to find out what R ⊗ Q is?.. I should look for A1 ⊗ B1, and in this case it’s obvious A1 × B1 will suffice as one of those tensor products 11:36:40 I should just look in nLab, obviously 11:53:48 ah, no, there is ⊗ for maps too. Linear algebra is bad for me 12:33:47 [[Seabass]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=64610 * Sec-iiiso * (+1480) Created page with "'''Seabass''' is a programming language that was inspired by [[Deadfish]] and is backwards-compatible with it. The other key points of Seabass are: * functionality * (relative..." 12:44:08 Deadfish derivative is the new brainfuck derivative, it seems 12:50:03 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64611&oldid=64609 * Sec-iiiso * (+14) /* S */ 13:00:12 [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64612&oldid=63861 * Sec-iiiso * (+961) /* Implementations */ 13:22:33 I should be asleep but I'm not. 13:22:38 Do you like "real induction"? 13:22:44 For some S ⊆ [a,b] ⊂ ℝ, if the following hold: 13:22:44 • ∀x ∈ [a,b]: if [a,x) ⊆ S, then [a,x] ⊆ S 13:22:44 • ∀x ∈ S\{b}: [x,y] ⊆ S for some y > x 13:22:44 Then S = [a,b]. 13:44:44 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64613&oldid=64606 * Jussef Swissen * (+0) 13:49:02 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64614&oldid=64613 * Jussef Swissen * (+167) 14:19:47 [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64615&oldid=64586 * A * (-829) I am not interested in extending H anymore, so I will delete this part. 14:53:10 -!- stux- has joined. 14:54:52 shachaf: where it’s used? 14:56:06 -!- stux|away has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:58:08 [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64616&oldid=64615 * A * (+24) Now there are 4 esolangs that need no code to implement! 15:09:11 -!- xkapastel has joined. 15:22:36 There are three reasons I commonly see for violating an abstraction layer: ignorance, expedience, and arrogance. I can do something about the first two, but I'm not sure what I can do about the last one. 15:24:28 Invoke the wrath of Zeus? 15:29:11 -!- stux- has quit (Quit: Aloha!). 15:29:26 -!- stux|away has joined. 15:48:39 Good idea, sounds a little drastic though? Maybe I'll start small - I'll use more Greek letters in my explanations. 16:14:09 [[Jussef Swissen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64617&oldid=64424 * Jussef Swissen * (-221) 16:15:31 [[Swissen Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64618&oldid=64386 * Jussef Swissen * (+3) /* Language Implementation */ 16:18:58 In other news, hierarchical state machines and algebraic data types seem to share the same structure: the set of states of a machine is like a sum type, and sub-machines embedded in a state is like a product type 16:19:44 Is there anything which corresponds to exponential types? 16:20:43 State transition? Kinda? Maybe not. I'll think about it 16:23:48 Did anyone have any comment of the card game rules I posted, so far? Now I am adding the rules for adjacency 16:24:02 After that, then I can add the rules for combat. 16:25:21 Do you worship the Greek gods? 16:26:20 Me? Not currently 16:26:30 I'm far too lazy 16:27:31 I meant if cpressey does, but if you want to answer that is OK too 16:30:18 No, the Babylonian gods made me promise that I wouldn't. 16:30:27 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:32:14 OK (especially if you are not in Greece) 16:41:35 I guess it would be nice to give my heart to a God 16:41:35 But which one, which one do I choose? 16:56:17 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: À la prochaine.). 17:09:07 [[User:Sideshowbob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64619&oldid=64574 * Sideshowbob * (+187) 17:56:11 -!- b_jonas has joined. 17:59:28 zzo38: it's hard to judge a card game even then, but this would make much more sense if you made example cards. make two beginner preconstructed decks that play against each other, with the equivalent of 30 M:tG cards in each deck (of which about 12 are basic lands) 18:01:15 That way it would be at least possible to simulate games. 18:38:49 [ 7+15 18:38:54 hmm no 18:39:05 `perl -eprint 7+15 18:39:06 22 18:39:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:50:39 weirdest bug: when I tap the rear fingerprint reader on my phone, juicessh goes into Ctrl-lock mode 18:51:13 what is juicessh? 18:52:10 no wait, I can web search that 18:52:31 an ssh client 18:52:33 ok 18:53:42 [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=64620&oldid=64616 * Areallycoolusername * (+385) Collab Request 18:55:28 b_jonas: yeah. I mostly use it for mosh, actually 18:55:41 it might be the only Android app that supports it 18:56:10 mosh is incredibly useful for mobile use 18:56:34 it works well on shitty connections and it automatically reconnects within 3 second when you switch networks 18:57:13 I used to worry that sending out the beacon frames had an impact on battery life 18:57:18 but it doesn't seem to matter much 19:04:11 bacon frames would have an impact on your cholesterol level, not the battery 19:06:01 lol 19:06:19 dietary cholesterol doesn't affect blood cholesterol very much 19:06:23 sorry, "beacon" still doesn't look like a real word to me, even though I heared it several time 19:06:27 but it affects obesity so yeah I guess 19:06:30 :P 19:16:06 -!- j-bot has joined. 19:43:10 [ 7+15 19:43:11 b_jonas: 22 19:43:13 same result, good 19:46:53 b_jonas: maybe you should just continue seeing beacons here and beacons there and someday beacon will shine its light on itself 19:48:28 omg I had read a parody Objectivist page by Andrej Bauer. I didn’t even thing there are so many strange quasi-rationalistic movements 19:49:27 a new discovery every day 19:50:24 " Read out loud the Axioms of Subject and Object with proper emphasis. For extra credit, do it in front of a mirror."? 19:50:28 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:50:57 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 19:51:03 int-e: yes 19:55:01 maybe I should start my own. “People can’t become rational, they either born that way or not. I can determine accurately who is which. Please come in and polarize.” 19:56:12 stated sufficiently bluntly to guarantee a steady intake of followers 19:57:23 . o O ( "the second part is concerned with Objectivist ethics" -- this part will be very short. ) 20:01:38 I skipped, is there a second part planned? 20:02:32 I presume it’s also scheduled at +∞? :) 20:07:02 I think I know too little about "objectivism" to find this funny. I did read the two novels though at some point... 20:17:33 BTW had someone tinkered with Algodoo? It’s a 2D physics sandbox thing. I think it could be possible to make a simple computer in there, but I hadn’t thought on it yet at all. There is a rotational drive primitive, so one is not bounded by what energy one could store beforehand; and there is no temperature simulation, so friction of parts won’t cause any harm 20:21:04 I haven't heard of that one yet 20:22:03 also there are working gears out of the box, and parts can occupy different collision layers to make a design more compact. Though there are only 10 layers IIRC. For a computer, it may become limiting 20:28:31 arseniiv: how flexibly can you connect pairs of the 10 layers? 20:28:55 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:29:16 each part can occupy any combination of them (checkboxes in the UI) 20:29:21 I see 20:31:00 that sounds like you could in theory build a RAM and ROM and CPU and PPU from them, though the question is how efficient the simulation is and whether you can get it fast enough to do some demonstrations 20:31:52 yeah, I haven’t tested the limits 20:32:10 also I saw it on youtube used mainly for marble races :D 20:32:35 you could try to look existing stuff online to see if someone's done something computational 20:32:42 or not mainly, but pretty often 20:33:06 hm yes, it’s a good step 20:49:53 yet to find a presentable mechanical calculator, but this Hanoi tower solver is neat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDERoYv6Jt0 20:56:34 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:03:13 woh 21:03:15 cool 21:10:29 `smlist 503 21:10:30 smlist 503: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale 21:14:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:31:16 after some search I think many people experimented with mechanic computation in that program, but almost none shared what they did (maybe they could think it was incomplete) 21:32:46 I found a logic gate design (AND, OR, NOT, and XOR not shown by itself, but as a part of, I presume, a flip-flop) 21:37:10 argh, why am I wearing these thin socks for the summer? they all look the same but actually have slight differences, so it's so hard to match the pairs after washing! 21:37:22 I should just stick to my usual thicker socks for the summer too 21:38:48 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:16:11 -!- mniip has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:56:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:28:42 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:36:48 -!- Sgeo has joined.