< 1560213204 839342 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agree that many edge cases could and should be incorporated in definitions < 1560213210 321010 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560213229 36063 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I didn’t understand what 0/0 = _ means < 1560213436 414406 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it seems I’m not as lucky to have an exact construction of Cantor’s pairing inversion included in ProofWiki. So I will need to be helped by someone here and @told about it or (hopefully someone has some links), or else reinvent that particular wheel :D < 1560213541 999203 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : agree that many edge cases could and should be incorporated in definitions => the day I had known about x mod 0 := x I was very very happy. It plays nice with ≡ (mod 0) and Z/0Z, it’s a total cake < 1560214200 559433 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560215843 287785 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvwcowwtzukkuvib QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560218271 202848 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqdxtlqqnssvwzhj JOIN :#esoteric < 1560219345 905295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560219348 982948 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560219418 521273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560219687 629239 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560220347 604307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1560222058 627709 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1560224087 625108 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560224288 450586 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560225348 973122 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1560225433 973369 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63330&oldid=63329 5* 03A 5* (+47) 10/* Computational class */ Bad language... > 1560225555 842838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63331&oldid=63326 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10 < 1560225562 557610 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1560225865 237770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63332&oldid=63331 5* 03A 5* (+501) 10 > 1560225906 907471 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63333&oldid=63332 5* 03A 5* (-40) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine */ What > 1560225923 356527 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63334&oldid=63333 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine */ > 1560225956 413561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63335&oldid=63330 5* 03A 5* (+77) 10/* Computational class */ < 1560226043 315357 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqdxtlqqnssvwzhj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1560226095 113343 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63336&oldid=63334 5* 03A 5* (+318) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine */ > 1560226180 748119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63337&oldid=63336 5* 03A 5* (+41) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine */ > 1560226268 675991 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63338&oldid=63337 5* 03A 5* (+156) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine */ < 1560234715 202974 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560235466 295875 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1560235697 537083 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1560236341 362060 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1560236455 508869 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560237592 840663 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1560237733 835308 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1560239404 969262 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560242152 392278 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1560243921 595696 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1560243945 256846 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560244563 394870 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1560246147 118933 :vetrivel!b64c84d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.76.132.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560246154 242362 :vetrivel!b64c84d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.76.132.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1560246191 25693 :vetrivel!b64c84d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.76.132.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a suggestion after going through the comments given for your project in hn. < 1560246193 874587 :vetrivel!b64c84d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.76.132.210 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20154008&goto=item%3Fid%3D20150179%2320154008 < 1560246465 127726 :vetrivel!b64c84d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.182.76.132.210 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1560246747 586634 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560246787 468167 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 QUIT :Client Quit < 1560246817 576570 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 JOIN :#esoteric > 1560248412 499760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63339&oldid=63335 5* 03A 5* (-122) 10/* Computational class */ > 1560248647 550812 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63340&oldid=63293 5* 03A 5* (+76) 10/* Computational class */ > 1560248686 604972 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63341&oldid=63340 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10/* Adar-= */ If I'm getting it right... > 1560248729 99910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63342&oldid=63339 5* 03A 5* (-214) 10/* Computational class */ > 1560248748 973932 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63343&oldid=63342 5* 03A 5* (-1938) 10/* Turing completeness proof waiting to be verified */ > 1560248757 166627 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63344&oldid=63343 5* 03A 5* (-1146) 10/* Adar Interpreter */ > 1560248810 783983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63345&oldid=63341 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-76) 10Undo revision 63340 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]): by definition, a PDA can emulate a FSA. however, adar is a FSA, therefore it cannot emulate a PDA. i think you misunderstand "compile to" > 1560248848 217747 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63346&oldid=63345 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+3) 10Undo revision 63341 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) revert FSA -> PDA category edit because it's not a PDA < 1560248906 42495 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they're confusing "to" and "from" > 1560248921 597351 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63347&oldid=63338 5* 03A 5* (-359) 10/* Turing-completeness via compiling to the Turing machine or via reduction */ < 1560249100 348310 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1560249464 579859 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63348&oldid=63344 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+2274) 10/* Computational class */ raising you a single register counter machine, which may or may not be equivalent? < 1560250043 175714 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds > 1560250350 842359 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63349&oldid=63348 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+16) 10/* Computational class */ clarifying that not all Adar programs are 1CMs, < 1560251358 268245 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkclyfrpeqzqxrpk JOIN :#esoteric < 1560253082 855675 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu > 1560253805 662504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63350&oldid=63349 5* 03A 5* (+289) 10 > 1560253825 378222 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63351&oldid=63350 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10 > 1560253925 884497 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63352&oldid=63351 5* 03A 5* (-287) 10Undo; that is totally rubbish. > 1560254835 564310 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63353&oldid=63352 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10Hgi 's > 1560254949 334364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63354&oldid=63353 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-5) 10don't change the wording of other people's posts > 1560255087 363058 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63355&oldid=63346 5* 03A 5* (+87) 10/* Looping counter */ > 1560255170 472205 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63356&oldid=63355 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-87) 10Undo revision 63355 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) the spec explicitely says adar operates on *integers*. don't add examples which just abuse the implementation > 1560256238 40201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63357&oldid=63356 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-57) 10what. of course it's possible to make oscillators with a different form > 1560256244 770103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63358&oldid=63357 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Adar-= */ > 1560256613 702219 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63359&oldid=63354 5* 03A 5* (+390) 10/* Computational class */ Need verification for coverage of the formula > 1560256822 397575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63360&oldid=63359 5* 03A 5* (+18) 10/* Request for a different form for oscillators */ < 1560257089 498223 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1560257137 983567 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63361&oldid=63360 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+536) 10 > 1560257186 966905 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63362&oldid=63361 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+0) 10wording < 1560257263 219693 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1560257266 424149 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 QUIT :Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.1 > 1560257439 988884 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63363&oldid=63358 5* 03A 5* (+140) 10/* Oscillators */ > 1560257501 447492 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63364&oldid=63362 5* 03A 5* (+237) 10/* Request for a different form for oscillators (for TuxCrafting) */ > 1560257523 880678 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63365&oldid=63364 5* 03A 5* (+77) 10/* Request for a different form for oscillators (for TuxCrafting) */ sign > 1560257604 190687 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63366&oldid=63363 5* 03A 5* (+50) 10/* Oscillators */ > 1560257697 56045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63367&oldid=63365 5* 03A 5* (-95) 10/* Request for a different form for oscillators (for TuxCrafting) */ golf my message > 1560257734 940722 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63368&oldid=63367 5* 03A 5* (-71) 10/* Request for a different form for oscillators (for TuxCrafting) */ Trim my message > 1560257891 788657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63369&oldid=63366 5* 03A 5* (+176) 10/* Examples */ < 1560257963 166598 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560258747 181793 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds > 1560258817 537138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63370&oldid=63369 5* 03A 5* (+249) 10/* Cat program */ Definitely more useful > 1560259277 405406 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63371&oldid=63370 5* 03A 5* (+125) 10/* + interpreter */ > 1560259550 481138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63372&oldid=63371 5* 03A 5* (+246) 10/* APLWSI interpreter */ < 1560260455 274921 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1560261634 451357 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560262419 232685 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560262612 622399 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560262613 873229 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1560263140 647748 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1560263151 694951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63373&oldid=63372 5* 03A 5* (+31) 10/* Oscillators */ < 1560263411 654655 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1560263414 289936 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 JOIN :#esoteric > 1560263668 256997 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NullScript 114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63374 5* 03A 5* (+2422) 10Created page with "[[NullScript 1]] is an [[esoteric programming language]]. It is a subset of [[NullScript 2]] and inspired by [[NullScript 2]] and bf. == Commands == These are NullScript 1's..." > 1560263795 642330 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NullScript 114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63375&oldid=63374 5* 03A 5* (-832) 10 < 1560264352 316767 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560264403 48694 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560264869 44207 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560266051 331816 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560266403 262445 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1560266745 322683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL (from Logitech): a keycap snapping off (legs broken, stuck inside the switch) during the warranty period while typing normally is "normal wear and tear". < 1560266906 395703 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1560267015 250764 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :convenient < 1560267167 269009 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560267180 900041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a special one time courtesy only, because they're such Good Guys, they might still mail me a spare keycap. Maybe. If they feel like it. < 1560267221 969303 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how that's a problem... they do that 105 times and somebody can have a brand new looking keyboard! < 1560267954 267734 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1560268039 750003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1560268087 235977 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1560268115 221232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63376&oldid=63368 5* 03Ais523 5* (+851) 10/* Computational class */ the point of no return > 1560269135 987069 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63377&oldid=62993 5* 03B jonas 5* (+765) 10on bitwise ops < 1560269462 556768 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1560269580 75031 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63378&oldid=63377 5* 03B jonas 5* (+0) 10INT opcode had wrong encoding < 1560269946 553641 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560273223 249380 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell b_jonas there is—I think, a less painful—pairing function based on bit interleaving (BTW like in tuxcrafting’s Minsky machine impl from yesterday’s active wiki page) < 1560273223 557990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1560273284 445642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think implemeting this one (and projections) would be smooth, but I’ll do it a bit later < 1560274219 225082 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0001cd5f015d09c3b5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1560275637 4030 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xyjzvnrcormpjouz JOIN :#esoteric < 1560276699 648317 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560276749 466419 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a creole esolang, one has functions with names “::”, “fst” and “cdr” < 1560276786 155467 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe “cons”, “_1” and “snd” < 1560276990 654942 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1560277189 461114 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560277361 462811 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1560278338 769584 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mkclyfrpeqzqxrpk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560279858 785870 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 QUIT :Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.1 < 1560280730 43290 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560280992 47839 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560282181 391854 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Quit: Narf. < 1560282658 426934 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560283008 422656 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560283584 719367 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1560283793 5038 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-55-111-60.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1560284490 560816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63379&oldid=63373 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-5) 10/* Oscillators */ not really that complex, in fact "pretty trivial" was used to describe constructing other forms, just spread the effects over more registers > 1560284848 658336 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63380&oldid=63379 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+19) 10Category: No IO < 1560285011 166375 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a0001cd5f015d09c3b5.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1560285473 60574 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgykoheruteuxrmf JOIN :#esoteric < 1560285753 740535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1560286174 304897 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it’s not that painless as it appeared, if one is to stick to use μ only when it’s really necessary < 1560286202 80417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe floor … sqrt things are even worse < 1560286258 967431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: sorry, I'm too lazy to read the logs... what kind of target would that be for? < 1560286330 640478 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: traditional recursive functions, i. e. when we should return only one natural number, not an arbitrary tuple of them < 1560286399 170123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably go with C(n+k+1,2) + C(k,1)... < 1560286429 285197 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1560286443 955328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encoding bijectively as natural numbers, where natural numbers start at 0. < 1560286446 719717 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost have written cons, fst and snd by bit-interleaving, and I was distracted by many unexpected and emotional things today < 1560286449 607487 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560286485 791167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit interleaving sounds fairly painful in that context, to me. < 1560286486 263017 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for those, I’d be quicker, but just now I’m quite melancholic instead < 1560286534 788496 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah. At first I forgot that we work with S … Z and not bit strings. For bit strings, it’s a lot easier and more natural < 1560286542 157594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fun bit is that one can compute n+k+1 (the difficult part of fst and snd) by minimization.) < 1560286558 628445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Right, if you have bit strings then I'd agree. < 1560286591 23287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to estimate bit length of a number (as it itself :D it would work) and do explicit bit shifts < 1560286597 982316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a flavor of primitive recursion that operates on bit strings... it's nicer that the successor based one when doing complexity theory. < 1560286645 927050 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : (the fun bit is that one can compute n+k+1 (the difficult part of fst and snd) by minimization.) => I try to avoid it until the last step, when we run some Minsky machine < 1560286684 147544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Bellantoni & Cook use that, for example, for their characterization of polytime computable functions in a restricted primitive recursive formalism. < 1560286711 505751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: which is fine; it's actually *bounded* minimization, and that can be done with primitive recursion alone. < 1560286720 247090 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : There is actually a flavor of primitive recursion that operates on bit strings... => yeah, I even had independently rediscovered it and made an eso YEA < 1560286726 985570 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/forgot/forget < 1560286729 306960 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a useful building block to have. < 1560286745 877769 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah, a bounded one < 1560286787 444036 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: shameless plug: https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/Minsky_Machines.html < 1560286896 545686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(built on top of https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/Recursion-Theory-I.html which does all the hard things... including pairing, and going all the way up to undecidability. It's missing the Kleene normal form theorem though (recursive functions are *defined* as a single minimization over a primitive recursive predicate; so it's missing that that recursive functions are closed under minimization)) < 1560286977 72720 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: as for the other way around, I had sketched up some procedure to make M. machines into μ-recursive functions, but these were not bare-bones ones, having tuple return values and several other useful additions < 1560287009 884482 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1560287019 804210 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, functions into machines < 1560287296 262091 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah the other direction looks pretty tedious. < 1560287628 224135 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, I guess the main challenge would be to come up with the right building blocks to make this easy.) < 1560287703 147467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requested page title contains invalid characters: "<". <-- there goes my plan to add a redirect from YEA to YEOOIIOOIOA < 1560287738 701015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I probably wouldn't have followed through with it anyway... but I'm not sure.) < 1560287961 852609 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : there goes my plan to add a redirect from YEA to YEOOIIOOIOA => well, it would be not a bad idea indeed < 1560287976 903928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :with s/…/forget merged < 1560287980 63388 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1560288012 655396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1560288022 134353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: forget what? < 1560288022 403563 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: by charles fnord.), is composed, came into use; anterior to the existence of such a character, even in this country? are you not afraid of that. you have done exceedingly well by me. < 1560288062 578258 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the final definitions look more or less nice: < 1560288062 692375 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons = chain plus (chain bitexpand π_1_2, chain shl1 (chain bitexpand < 1560288062 692418 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :π_2_2)) < 1560288062 692428 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :fst = bitshrink < 1560288062 692437 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :snd = chain bitshrink shr1 < 1560288063 217159 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my haskellish syntax, and I mean “chain” everywhere, was partly a mistake) < 1560288092 928693 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: yeah I imagine some intermediate language would actually be useful for a Minsky machine -> recursive function translation. < 1560288121 569812 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait what? => I still forget, so the present tense seems more appropriate :D < 1560288150 445621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ah. < 1560288168 599878 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also I used a C-like language to represent Minsky machines other way around < 1560288179 231723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: how about "keep forgetting" while you're improving that part ;-) < 1560288189 977824 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one can easily syntactically compile < 1560288200 663809 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I totally keep doing that < 1560288234 350144 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you're in good company there... Turing did some close-to-structured programming for Turing Machines as well. < 1560288235 808196 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the other one, I always need to open charmap to write its name < 1560288426 409197 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I had great fun with that Minsky machine formalization. I don't actually have any higher level representation of minsky machines, but I made the lemmas composable in a nice way, allowing me to write pseudo-code as part of the proof: http://paste.debian.net/1087492/ < 1560288485 460517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll readily admit that this is not very readable, but the comments do actually correspond to the instantiated lemmas) < 1560288563 40602 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly I agree that if you defined it yourself, it should appear more readable and natural < 1560288780 661254 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel a great urge to play minecraft instead of finishing what I begun with that implementation. Everything seems ready to do semantically filled things but it’s late and I suddenly remember I’m lazy < 1560288806 981126 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I’ll go with the easy route < 1560288830 792707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm minecraft... < 1560288852 541915 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are villagers to transport by rail and be enslaved in a small box far away from the ground < 1560288866 859656 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1560288903 457164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to avoid open-ended games. I don't always succeed. < 1560288930 962185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you should play factorio hth < 1560288931 71545 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it’s a total waste of time, so we’re on and off < 1560288985 67146 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm afraid to look what that is < 1560289106 50132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no that looks safe from me < 1560289117 380625 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK there you are stranded on an alien planet and you build factories to fly from there in the end, but you don’t have to, and instead you may be allowed to build a gigantic display which plays a video of Sandstorm by Darude < 1560289122 141331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1560289156 786892 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure < 1560289176 277118 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll sooner get back into SimCity. :P < 1560289245 831471 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least SimCity seems less wasteful than Sims < 1560289952 165904 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-55-111-60.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1560290085 741559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorio is the best. < 1560290105 73057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're always automating everything so there's pretty much no manual work to do. < 1560290247 464670 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-55-111-60.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560290948 557828 :lizzie!~liz@unaffiliated/lizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1560291605 187161 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1560291814 479065 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xyjzvnrcormpjouz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560293673 337963 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1560293899 662370 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1560294720 171568 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560295361 326018 :sleepnap!~thomas@c-68-55-111-60.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1560296499 129195 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560296606 643579 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :random esolang / abstract rewriting system idea: < 1560296623 706105 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string-rewriting machine that outputs sequential "statements" or "questions" loosely directed at zero or more Oracle Machines. Oracle machines can either respond or not to the output. < 1560296642 256913 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an OM reponds, that output is repeated as as input to another OM via a "copy-and-paste" mechanism. At some point in the execution cycle, the machine can rewrite all of its previous output with an ε-production, resulting in a context-free self-interaction of OMs, or potentially the empty string. < 1560296665 941626 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking it could be called Talk or Talkative, with an alpha-privative prepended to reference the ε-production. < 1560296958 478320 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560297152 442268 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds