< 1560124824 612683 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1560129197 239715 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63263&oldid=63262 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+17) 10/* C */ Added curlyfrick < 1560129603 748090 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1560130579 932151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63264&oldid=63249 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-368) 10/* Oscillators */ clear oscillator construction > 1560130678 681586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63265&oldid=63264 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-7) 10/* Stabilizers */ consistent terminology: "registers" < 1560131701 59478 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:10d6:3a6d:c0be:57ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1560131998 54379 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:10d6:3a6d:c0be:57ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1560132590 49775 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63266&oldid=63265 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-15) 10/* Stabilizers */ move section < 1560132842 589926 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560132933 454709 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1560133546 362124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63267&oldid=63266 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+261) 10/* Truth-machine */ alt version that does not trigger after first 0 is output > 1560133713 788371 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63268&oldid=63267 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-21) 10/* Infinite loop */ duplicated below < 1560134186 674163 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy NICK :lizzie_swett[m] < 1560134578 582151 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sup everyone? < 1560134594 36115 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sorta feel like I should introduce myself. < 1560134608 44222 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you already know me. So I won't. < 1560135531 866572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the change of nick? < 1560136035 748656 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( another one?? ) < 1560136048 668966 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello / welcome / congrats(?) < 1560136082 506721 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION offers hugs
< 1560137321 133234 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've decided to try going by Elizabeth for a little while. See how it suits me. < 1560137366 764558 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Just a nick change, really. But I never turn down a hug. :D < 1560137373 766476 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs kmc.
< 1560137517 751341 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, Elizabeth :) < 1560137527 908070 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pronouns do you use? < 1560137602 62801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, do you prefer to do without pronouns? < 1560137674 157329 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is fine too, although linguistically awkward < 1560137676 398261 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I dunno. She/her is fine, he/him is fine. Anything is fine, I guess. :D < 1560137683 275020 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1560137702 604348 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good luck with your experiment < 1560137708 58445 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that it is informative < 1560137726 896372 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to make you guys say stuff like "Liz is looking at Lizzelf." :D < 1560137732 512705 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1560137736 384916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :informative experiments are tg < 1560137747 852446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hizzie_swett[m] < 1560137770 638216 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is happy to chat about such things 1:1, by the way
< 1560138017 825271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought a programming language can have, each source file you will compile will produce not only the object file but also a auxiliary file (which may be empty). Before linking, all auxiliary files will be combined to make an additional object file to be linked with them (unless all of the auxiliary files are empty). < 1560138139 319141 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what purpose does it serve? < 1560138233 782351 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: One example is if you have a sorted list of functions taken from various modules and may have some other data associated with it (e.g. sort by module name), then you can initialize it at compile time into a constant array, rather than having to program it in manually or initialize it at run time. < 1560138276 852454 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are other uses too, but that is one example.) < 1560138294 42255 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1560138305 51406 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use special linker sections for that < 1560138559 871738 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try to make up some more Magic: the Gathering card, too. Or even, a game variant, or new keyword abilities or keyword actions, or a puzzle, etc. Or maybe, everything together. < 1560139904 971851 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonghits [instant]: tap 2 green mana, target creature becomes stoned < 1560142276 171734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do if it is stoned? < 1560142386 59722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I put my whole program in one translation unit, do I need a linker? < 1560142415 242731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe this is the hip thing to do < 1560142488 588271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For many programs it will work, but sometimes the program is large and it will be slow to put it all at once < 1560142665 421980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1560142675 81086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you lose incremental compilation, or because the whole program won't fit in memory or something? < 1560142728 130157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it has to recompile the entire program. If it is large then it might be slow. < 1560144221 575815 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozbwaodlooslmmwc JOIN :#esoteric < 1560145969 311392 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1560146448 428707 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How do you use special linker sections for that? < 1560147757 205654 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a linker does (mostly) is collect all input sections with the same/similar names into one output section, so in the simple case if every file outputs a chunk of data in .foo the output .foo is the concatenation of all of them, and you can then iterate the .foo section at runtime < 1560147864 654384 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how global initialization code is handled, if a translation unit has global constructors a function pointer is added to the .init_array section and libc calls all those functions before main < 1560147947 285706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works for some cases (although, how do you iterate the section at runtime?), but if you want to perform computations on the data before it is compiled (such as sorting it, or removing duplicates), then it doesn't do (unless you do it at runtime) < 1560148141 673471 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicates can be handled the same as code for "inline" functions and templates, probably called commoning or weak/vague linkage depending on binary format < 1560148181 986174 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use GNU ld you'd use a linker script to sort input sections by name < 1560148226 434438 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get iteration either have the linker script emit start/end symbols for you, or have a first/last object that just defines start/end symbols in the right section < 1560148436 10370 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-180-83.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :more general purpose computation is trickier, to make something really fancy maybe you could write an ld plugin < 1560148979 167260 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1560149059 478981 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1560149290 992637 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560150766 973363 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560150968 562752 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560151188 78639 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:10d6:3a6d:c0be:57ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1560151418 966153 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:10d6:3a6d:c0be:57ee QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1560151432 213568 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:10d6:3a6d:c0be:57ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1560151579 606705 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560151797 844828 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560152833 571305 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1560156642 255087 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560156657 781787 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1560156682 973950 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560156704 365735 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1560156729 343534 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560156751 119009 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1560159598 59119 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1560160398 694625 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozbwaodlooslmmwc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1560163019 412797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63269 5* 03A 5* (+266) 10Created page with "[[Union]] is a unique concentrative language that is based on [[queue]]s, not [[stack]]s or [[deque]]s(which can simulate stacks). It is mainly influenced by the union find. [..." > 1560163405 164106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63270&oldid=63269 5* 03A 5* (+749) 10Wait, it will probably be a stub page... > 1560163533 585649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63271&oldid=63270 5* 03A 5* (+140) 10/* Commands (just like any other concentrative language) */ > 1560163618 976373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63272&oldid=63271 5* 03A 5* (+142) 10/* Evaluate 1-(3/2) */ > 1560163831 539198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63273&oldid=63272 5* 03A 5* (+137) 10/* Commands (just like any other concentrative language) */ > 1560163865 26659 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63274&oldid=63273 5* 03A 5* (+29) 10/* Commands (just like any other concentrative language) */ > 1560163878 768146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63275&oldid=63274 5* 03A 5* (+52) 10/* Examples */ > 1560163914 524767 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apsw14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63276&oldid=63259 5* 03A 5* (+10) 10/* Examples */ You forgot to add links > 1560163970 400624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63277&oldid=63275 5* 03A 5* (+140) 10/* Examples */ > 1560164152 976017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63278&oldid=63277 5* 03A 5* (+101) 10/* Examples */ > 1560164410 6981 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63279&oldid=63278 5* 03A 5* (+375) 10/* Examples */ > 1560164485 415674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63280&oldid=63279 5* 03A 5* (+100) 10 > 1560164738 465547 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63281&oldid=63280 5* 03A 5* (+251) 10 > 1560165018 958093 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63282&oldid=63281 5* 03A 5* (+13) 10 > 1560165035 693470 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63283&oldid=63282 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10 > 1560165059 739204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Union14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63284&oldid=63283 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10 < 1560169188 115168 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560169498 746748 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need a linking step even when you only have one source file < 1560169508 316755 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it might be done inside the compiler < 1560169517 381524 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need, e.g., all the references to the same global variable to refer to the same memory location < 1560169552 885357 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler typically won't pick a memory location for global variables at all, that's the linker's job (also partially the runtime's job nowadays with ASLR, but the linker will still normally choose the relative locations of the global variables in memory) > 1560169882 716264 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63285&oldid=63257 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+813) 10/* Computational class */ finite-state machine < 1560170468 254816 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ais523 < 1560170469 268567 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :24) after all, what are DVD players for? \ 69) so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? \ 70) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 77) (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) \ 78) theory: some amused deity is making the laws of < 1560170487 744032 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/rand* < 1560170488 554850 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access 'bin/rand*': No such file or directory < 1560170493 646820 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/rand* < 1560170494 687890 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/randbin \ bin/randomanonlog \ bin/random-card \ bin/randquote < 1560170499 813739 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170500 524374 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :209) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. < 1560170505 995892 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170506 734106 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :427) it actually worked, and faster than using Excel for rendering < 1560170510 392189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Knuth says you don't need a linker then. I for one think you may still need a linker, because even if you put _most_ of your program in one translation unit, you still want to use vsdo. and yes, for incremental compilation too. and because the compiler only wants to know to emit one thing, and that one thing is .o files, so you link even a single .o to a .out. < 1560170515 252849 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170516 51473 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :897) oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise < 1560170524 753735 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: VDSO requires linker support? < 1560170549 374119 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it got dynamically linked into the executable by the kernel < 1560170554 19591 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might be wrong < 1560170567 998013 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170568 895588 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1297) ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it's for when people think they're being funny, rather than when other people think they're funny. < 1560170575 691432 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170576 562820 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :927) ais523: I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is getting better by visiting this channel.. < 1560170581 258103 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote ais523 < 1560170582 458332 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :69) so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? < 1560170591 232750 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's a duplicate, I'll stop now > 1560170637 858523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping turing machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63286 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+4453) 10Created page with "A swapping Turing machine is a computational model similar to a standard Turing machine, except that instead of being able to mark new symbols on the tape, it is only able to..." > 1560170670 482554 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* 10moved [[02Swapping turing machine10]] to [[Swapping Turing Machine]]: capitalization... < 1560170710 281706 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't know. how would symbols pointing to it get resolved? < 1560170734 812171 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they're normally dynamically linked to libc, the kernel just overrides that < 1560170751 750993 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`randquote harps < 1560170752 531975 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1290) hmm, I just remembered that I was formally trained to tune harps < 1560170763 628250 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, now I'm curious as to what happens if you have a function named, e.g., `gettimeofday` that has nothing to do with time < 1560170780 28867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm. but that would still make it a linker in the kernel, wouldn't it? < 1560170782 106176 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the vDSO try to override it anyway? or is there some check that you were using the libc version? < 1560170796 701628 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ld-linux.so is probably involved somehow < 1560170801 481214 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's arguably a linker, just a runtime linker < 1560170832 802317 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the function in vdso is called __vdso_gettimeofday, not just gettimeofday < 1560170860 333533 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1560170871 451871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on the architecture, but it's never just gettimeofday > 1560170891 659946 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63289&oldid=63268 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-117) 10 > 1560170943 368938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63290&oldid=63289 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+1) 10 < 1560170994 469573 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently on x86_64 it's available as both __vdso_gettimeofday and gettimeofday, but the latter name is deprecated < 1560171005 140897 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably is set up to not be overridden by default < 1560171077 975213 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know how all this ELF and linking thing works < 1560171162 112073 :ais523_!93bcc3b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.177 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1560171175 103052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63291&oldid=63290 5* 03A 5* (+158) 10/* Examples */ No oscillators went out of the formula. > 1560171190 526655 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63292&oldid=63291 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10/* Stabilizers */ > 1560171206 385224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63293&oldid=63292 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Stabilizers */ Uh oh < 1560171326 614262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "linux elves" < 1560171328 11876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://in.pinterest.com/pin/743868063429730113/ < 1560171387 926012 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was a surprisingly safe link < 1560171406 535299 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some of the tricks have to be there for binary compatibility, even after we got rid of the x86_32 arch and a.out < 1560171610 597895 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( let me get back to solving the halting problem ) > 1560171622 587022 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63294&oldid=63287 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+446) 10explain minsky machine conversion > 1560171951 981051 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apsw14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63295&oldid=63276 5* 03A 5* (+164) 10Rubbish. (Throws an overripe tomato) > 1560172078 87605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Apsw14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63296&oldid=63295 5* 03A 5* (-164) 10/* Looping counter */ > 1560172287 340145 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63297&oldid=63294 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-2) 10the -> a < 1560172572 438261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that the IOCCC website says "close to June 2nd" without a year number > 1560172856 154270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63298&oldid=63297 5* 03A 5* (+89) 10 < 1560172976 708881 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's only May 28th on the Julian Calendar. < 1560172985 161180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/C/c/ < 1560173005 703567 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but the Julian calendar hadn't invented August yet > 1560173009 909127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63299&oldid=63298 5* 03A 5* (+8) 10/* Register machine Swapping Turing machine conversion */ "else" does not contribute anything to the logic; improve the "register machine" description < 1560173028 330195 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=23 is SOO wrong. < 1560173056 698220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again they mangled all the month names anyway.) < 1560173062 576249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: IOCCC is adamant that they're about C, not about other languages, and the C standard library only knows the Gregorian calendar, with timegm, gmtime, timelocal, localtime < 1560173079 494428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And don't get me started on the idea that the year starts in January.) < 1560173103 446316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: IOCCC is also all about abuse. < 1560173107 249665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the year starts at the start of September, < 1560173129 586652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you around for the eternal September? < 1560173179 503124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea that it starts at January only came about because calendars start at January, but that's simply because the government is so annoying that they don't always decide by the start of September which days will be holidays in the year, but they always decide a small margin before January, so the publishers can get calendars to the shops that way < 1560173190 716383 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the eternal september, by definition, ongoing? < 1560173211 525720 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I should ask about the start of it. < 1560173219 824146 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And tbh I have to look up the year.) < 1560173246 94377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, I wasn't around < 1560173246 424863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1993 > 1560173271 378243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63300&oldid=63299 5* 03A 5* (+393) 10/* Register machine Swapping Turing machine conversion */ > 1560173286 524940 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63301&oldid=63300 5* 03A 5* (-2) 10/* See also */ < 1560173329 938544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I can't say I was around either... I believe I only got seriously on the Internet about 3 years later, and was introduced to Usenet around 1998?) < 1560173372 954819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got on the internet seriously in 2003, although I started to use the internet a little around 1997 < 1560173379 467864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did experience the collecting-AOL-CDs hype though. > 1560173383 881625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63302&oldid=63301 5* 03A 5* (+76) 10/* Another very trivial conversion */ < 1560173388 953885 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't have AOL-CDs here < 1560173389 580585 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think year is a misguided concept. In nature, things almost never change suddenly, nor do they have a constant value for a long time. We should use phases of the Earth wrt a some ideal point defined in a manner there is no consensus on < 1560173414 606689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: do you celebrate or mourn your birthday or is it just like any other day? < 1560173449 651356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you don't have to answer that) < 1560173450 77005 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I celebrate the first moon landing on it < 1560173452 551667 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I do both, though the first more and the second in a much lesser degree < 1560173466 304438 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : (you don't have to answer that) > oh :D < 1560173475 525920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1560173484 562638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I realized that it was kind of personal :) < 1560173523 921483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I am fine with years, but no one should know about it, tellurian phases should be a public API < 1560173550 244414 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they should be elements of some ideal sphere S^1 < 1560173557 300646 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the moon ones too < 1560173582 982439 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, moon phases are fine as they are too < 1560173590 30712 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :overshooted < 1560173596 765753 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was < 1560173601 420375 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/had < 1560173603 247881 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I'm venturing into shachaf territory (asking questions without knowing when to stop), do you prefer solar or siderian days, and which planet is your favorite reference point for those? < 1560173630 870233 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :siberian days suck < 1560173636 521694 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm I don’t think I have thought about that matter < 1560173648 948205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap b_jonas < 1560173649 55703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't; I want to go get some cookies instead. < 1560173657 516657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1560173657 621420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1560173659 46976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap b_jonas < 1560173659 192854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth would I slap b_jonas ? < 1560173662 775807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1560173671 666564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me have that cookie back. < 1560173675 774663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, next you'll ask the hard question on whether, if we could go back to the 50s, we'd want to retroactively abolish DST or not < 1560173695 100498 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: whay do they? They are the integer multiple of hour, like the c of m/s, it’s pretty and nice < 1560173703 320702 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1560173708 287196 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant b_jonas: < 1560173720 653457 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m sloppy today < 1560173722 86599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hon. and learned fungot, do you celebrate your birthday? < 1560173722 470484 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that man who, upon this old mother soil, the anniversary of an experiment which was born of war with this same land so long ago. this fnord pitt, who bribed the directory to order the reviewers not to notice so formidable an attack on the reign of louis xiv. and during that of louis xv. fenelon's principles of good government. < 1560173743 990125 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's out of the blue < 1560173744 961258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anniversary <-- right on topic < 1560173747 622439 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :louis xiv. < 1560173758 595220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that when you shift your fingers and try to type <--, you get M00? > 1560173789 429365 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63303 5* 03A 5* (+790) 10Huh? < 1560173828 116832 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : let me have that cookie back. > someone should implement @botunsnack and make it throw an error when there’s nothing to un < 1560173911 820537 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I should be indeed very sloppy, I misread b_jonas said “siberian days” < 1560173925 190969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say siberian days, yes < 1560173960 23992 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I misread that as “siderian” < 1560173968 14611 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "siderian" even a word? > 1560174010 284960 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63304&oldid=63303 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+426) 10 < 1560174104 620457 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it’s a name of a geological period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siderian < 1560174146 911382 :lizzie_swett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zadsdxeddlqlkcxy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sidereal days are all right, but I prefer solar days. > 1560174313 758373 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63305&oldid=63304 5* 03A 5* (+460) 10/* Not Turing-complete? */ > 1560174375 836117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63306&oldid=63305 5* 03A 5* (+97) 10Add < 1560174422 18169 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vlgyvdfxlnlktyma JOIN :#esoteric < 1560174429 907168 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW I can’t properly start watching a course on spinors and Clifford algebras. I had seen a couple of minutes from the start, heard that in my language is accented unlike and and maybe this is holding me back now?.. < 1560174471 582784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought that they were accented alike > 1560174540 388277 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63307&oldid=63306 5* 03A 5* (+120) 10 > 1560174648 941653 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63308&oldid=63285 5* 03A 5* (+95) 10/* Computational class */ Seems like a joke > 1560174683 317117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63309&oldid=63307 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+464) 10 > 1560174692 258746 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63310&oldid=63308 5* 03A 5* (+115) 10/* Computational class */ > 1560175050 645358 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63311&oldid=63309 5* 03A 5* (+227) 10 > 1560175178 382635 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63312&oldid=63311 5* 03A 5* (+59) 10 > 1560175267 962982 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63313&oldid=63312 5* 03A 5* (+106) 10 > 1560175303 443272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63314&oldid=63302 5* 03A 5* (-301) 10/* Another very trivial conversion */ > 1560175337 360936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63315&oldid=63313 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+437) 10uhh > 1560175375 202530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63316&oldid=63314 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+25) 10 > 1560175400 788825 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63317&oldid=63315 5* 03A 5* (-644) 10/* Not Turing-complete? */ Break the thread > 1560175412 321366 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63318&oldid=63316 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-167) 10no purpose for this section now > 1560176046 103967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63319&oldid=63310 5* 03A 5* (+1) 10/* Computational class */ sp < 1560176115 456656 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1560176219 894110 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1560176234 190589 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63320&oldid=63317 5* 03A 5* (+7) 10Totally garbage; I should comment it out. > 1560176308 5927 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63321&oldid=63318 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+55) 10Minsky machine links > 1560176419 564368 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63322&oldid=63321 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (-43) 10register machine -> minsky machine everywhere too < 1560176467 942019 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a polite thing to comment out other people’s comments in a conversation you initiated? A’s done that just now > 1560176617 180867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63323&oldid=63320 5* 03A 5* (+525) 10Add a subsection > 1560176816 159192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63324&oldid=63323 5* 03Arseniiv 5* (+334) 10/* Turing-completeness without swapping */ no < 1560176850 882243 :elie`!~user@37.142.2.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560176859 894164 :elie`!~user@37.142.2.12 NICK :tuxcrafting < 1560176870 910238 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1560176884 918718 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope A isn’t too noisy < 1560176887 242845 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it isn't exactly polite but fwiw that was due to a misunderstanding by A so it wasn't of great importance < 1560176890 332153 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi < 1560176939 476180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I'm ignoring A-related esowiki messages... and I'm quite a bit happier for it. < 1560176953 492059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sad but true) < 1560176955 95573 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuxcrafting: I am concerned it was really an misunderstanding. A is somewhat of a trickster < 1560177003 831668 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it’s a good strategy, yes < 1560177034 760435 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to a misunderstanding. or something like that. although it's true that A has quite a bad track record < 1560177053 493876 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree too < 1560177075 152416 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mentioned that obscurely at https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-05.html#lAac ... not sure about IRC clients other than irssi) < 1560177098 928151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was raised this same topic two times and it’s already too much but I just can’t lay still it seems :D < 1560177147 770607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, A's not write. < 1560177161 813428 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah personally I had parsed it as a command to hide these post for some client < 1560177170 416371 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/post/posts < 1560177218 136407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuxcrafting: A doesn't have a good grip on what they do and do not know. < 1560177246 568581 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's my opinion at least.) < 1560177263 377460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they have a temper problem that doesn't help with communication at all. < 1560177303 798367 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it seems like that < 1560177402 639748 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's fairly obvious that that swapping TM is almost, but not quite, a Minsky machine. (There's a complication that when counters "meet", and when there's more than one of a kind of symbol.) < 1560177411 287819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that when/when/ < 1560177440 126654 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1560177445 356071 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's closer to a Minsky machine in its capabilities than to a TM. < 1560177476 455935 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible to directly convert a tm to a swapping tm but a minsky machine is pretty trivial < 1560177563 971713 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also about sidereal days, I think I’m now sure. I’ll use M94! It has some ring to it < 1560177652 203628 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it’s one of the rare(?) Messier catalogue entities that don’t lists something unrelated to astronomy in google results < 1560177729 634912 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“don’t lists”, bwah, sloppiness lasts long < 1560178744 796103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1560178805 220338 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:4c2b:7387:cf0:6614 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560179006 941830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560179150 339847 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` lists # arseniiv: well, "lists" is safer than "list" < 1560179151 155362 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: lists: command not found > 1560179164 741163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63325&oldid=63324 5* 03A 5* (+361) 10 < 1560179294 623261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... heh I haven't seen this before (ghc/Haskell: Pattern match checker exceeded (2000000) iterations) < 1560179373 502836 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what language extensions have you (or the code you're compiling) enabled? < 1560179379 940748 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I also have not generated 150 random patterns for a single function before) < 1560179389 486962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: just DeriveFunctor. < 1560179461 72466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's really not the problem. :) < 1560179626 837202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think the most I have is 16 patterns, in http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/Bin.hs , for multiple functions that take two arguments each of a type that has four constructors > 1560179916 133787 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Swapping Turing Machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63326&oldid=63325 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+430) 10sigh < 1560180087 931962 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in the hypothetical case that the machine would be denied to swap values, it wouldn't be tc. therefore, the machine in its current state isn't tc." < 1560180318 654610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :o tempora o mores < 1560180462 101799 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I heard one person said that Minsky machines are inferior for didactic purposes to Turing machines, as they purportedly can work only with naturals and naturals aren’t the grail of computability to stick to them < 1560180522 427863 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think both minsky machines and turing machines and even multi-tape turing machines such for didactic purposes. we need proper pointer machines with cons. < 1560180526 758490 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though this someone didn’t seem to criticise another common computability instrument, recursive functions, in such a way < 1560180559 383778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we could use (0) as the model of computability. that was sort of its goal. < 1560180581 303002 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some minor details like evaluation order have to be cleared up in its definition, but still < 1560180608 572356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though all three formalisms are perfectly suited to work with any inductive type, e. g. binary strings (as I have done in that eso YEA) < 1560180640 22514 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/all three/all two latter < 1560180713 639277 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : we need proper pointer machines with cons. => maybe! But your topic is more genuine than the aforementioned nonsense < 1560180789 423973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand how that computational model of recursive functions on natural works. is there a good readable description somewhere, such as on the wiki? < 1560180808 286883 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m glad I only read what that person said, and not participated in a discussion (luckily, it was over at that time and I wasn’t signed up to that board, and still isn’t) < 1560180837 55287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what details concern you? < 1560180872 925729 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write something right here if I’ll understand the question < 1560180960 466496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think I understand the part about projection and composition: that's the same idea that Amicus and Backus's FP use < 1560180967 340041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do the loop builtins work? < 1560181005 628196 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how are they interpreted, or how one can express loops with them? < 1560181009 276787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they strange because it's modifying a definition that's trying to capture primitive recursion? < 1560181066 868381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the loop primitives is a counter loop, for primitive recursion, right? < 1560181071 591063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a general one that can pass any state < 1560181137 20749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other one, that tries to find a loop bound to break over primitive recursion? < 1560181140 4096 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1560181145 218601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1560181150 845111 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm erm < 1560181240 417329 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn’t understand about general state… ah, or no, I did now < 1560181259 614091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :general state as in you can propagate any number of local variables < 1560181260 835399 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the μ thingie directly corresponds to a while loop, yeah < 1560181270 295503 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail recursion style < 1560181293 654494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't break out early, so you need to work that around < 1560181301 722156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awkward in an esoteric way, but not really limiting < 1560181349 947222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's something that doesn't work here < 1560181362 528613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought, with μ, you can < 1560181372 185695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1560181391 923214 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ceases iterating when that test function returns 0 < 1560181398 898511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have general state < 1560181402 939772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can only propagate one number < 1560181405 810488 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that enough? < 1560181409 572091 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1560181411 472811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have cons and decons operators < 1560181429 134083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amicus has them) < 1560181435 513677 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well no, it doesn't) < 1560181447 540641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it is defined in such a way that it doesn't need them) < 1560181477 627667 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, didn’t I use an enhanced μ μself in Y…A? I’ll look < 1560181516 585325 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1560181551 819025 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is enhanced by some margin, but not in such a way < 1560181577 73967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm still trying to understand the for loop, not the other loop < 1560181660 719804 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it allows to take a function f: m + 1 → n instead of f: m + 1 → 1, and n can be even 0 if it’s needed) < 1560181664 498379 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah < 1560181680 83650 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it’s more easy in recursive formulation < 1560181717 81247 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write the result as a specially-constrained recursive definition by cases < 1560181855 328289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably know it already but let’s write some haskellish thing anyway: < 1560181887 382996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the definition should give primitive recursive functions if you remove the general loop builtin < 1560182074 56459 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: ? < 1560182115 97721 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :rec z s = \x1 … xn → f where < 1560182115 208402 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : f Z = z < 1560182115 285253 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : f (S n) = s n (f n) -- maybe s (f n), I forgot. This is what Y…A uses, and it’s nicer to have < 1560182115 285310 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably recognize our friends Church and Scott (in my definition both, in the standard one it’s Church IIRC) < 1560182130 942420 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: here, I was typing :D < 1560182140 575088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me look up this Y...A. < 1560182142 226149 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, it does < 1560182162 724017 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y…A is more eso than is needed here, but https://esolangs.org/wiki/YEOOIIOOIOA < 1560182175 679293 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it’s for strings, not naturals < 1560182215 694461 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here are more constructors, more recursion cases and more unneeded trouble in defining μ < 1560182245 993829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that makes it easier < 1560182266 265997 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem here is that rec (as you defined above and as the traditional definition has) doesn't allow me to pass more than one variable to the next iteration of the loop, < 1560182294 416307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I don't have any way to make and unmake a tuple, I can't even pass multiple variables in a tuple either < 1560182296 295105 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the semantic description there is not that neat as I’ve written just now, I hadn’t realized it could be simplified then < 1560182346 726124 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you mean, no way to make/unmake tuples not using rec itself? < 1560182392 457446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I dunno, maybe there is some way to make/unmake tuples with rec, which would solve this problem < 1560182400 265507 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I don't know how to do that < 1560182407 31190 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, well, you can return multiple results, I’ve seen to that :D < 1560182450 414214 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amicus solves this by not having a for loop or while loop, you have to make loops with a Y combinator, in which case passing multiple arguments is natural < 1560182457 134521 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in standard texts (with naturals) they use Cantor pair encoding, implementing it on many pages step by step < 1560182485 92057 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :my flavor also has consing < 1560182489 430121 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: so you're saying you can somehow write 2-tuple encoding and decoding from this, despite that they're not builtins? < 1560182512 364811 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh why, even standard one has deconsing: projections < 1560182521 486511 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1560182524 967517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have an apply < 1560182525 100428 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: of course :D < 1560182538 648942 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1560182580 598726 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I seem to be too far in the clouds maybe < 1560182605 56444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :let’s state remaining problems in a more concrete terms < 1560182665 639025 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I agree to discuss the standard case without function concats and many-valued rec, yeah) < 1560182693 554845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try. you know how when in an imperative language, you have a counter loop that closes over mutable variables, you can translate that to a pure function language (without mutable variables) by turning to loop to a recursion that passes the latest values of those variables to the next iteration as arguments, right? < 1560182706 409697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this needs to pass the values of multiple variables to the next iteration < 1560182720 552077 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rec doesn't let you do that, it only lets you pass one variable to the next iteration that can change < 1560182733 56514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you pass any number of constants that don't change through the loop, but that's not enough < 1560182743 891355 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this I got < 1560182757 667801 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we are to implement consing and unconsing < 1560182761 416035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my question is, how do you translate a Bloop for loop to that awkward old definition of primitive recursive? < 1560182819 515100 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :David explains that the cons and decons bultins in (0) are redundant, but that's because it already has mutable variables that persist through loops < 1560182870 388748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is tuple cons and decons by the way < 1560182890 693407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easy to get maybes too < 1560182973 79903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the language is weakly typed, the tuple is of the same type as the numbers < 1560182985 90304 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :if consing and unconsing are all we need on this stage, then we implement them via Cantor, and that three functions we implement carefully without for :D I don’t remember what’s needed exactly, I’ll take a look < 1560183025 796622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this totally sounds like an esoteric language, so it would be nice to have a description on the wiki < 1560183067 981853 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren’t? < 1560183078 394407 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you can see, there are flavors to it < 1560183155 143960 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ones should one describe? Many of augmentations I used I took from a book by Manin (and I don’t know what part of them he thought them up himself) < 1560183182 816212 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variant with that stupid rec < 1560183187 905894 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has this problem < 1560183210 596890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I didn't even try to describe why 1.1 is turing-complete or how to program it either < 1560183217 149401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one Church—Scott addition can be probably attributed to one article of someone, which is concerned with representing inductive types in pure λ < 1560183230 665672 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : the variant with that stupid rec > ah < 1560183243 354064 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if there aren’t any, I could address that < 1560183253 521653 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first I’ll write it here < 1560183282 673697 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :about cantor things. I still haven’t found formulas, can’t remember what they are named < 1560183310 826501 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : admittedly I didn't even try to describe why 1.1 is turing-complete or how to program it either => you mean, Amicus 1.1? < 1560183327 265778 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don’t remember if it has revisions) < 1560183334 445691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1560183337 883377 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language called 1.1 < 1560183350 717813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string replacement one < 1560183361 497089 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I haven’t heard about that one yet I think < 1560183457 416613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interesting enhancement of bare Markov algorithms, I see < 1560183482 734815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what are bare Markov algorithms? < 1560183508 271697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that yet another model? < 1560183527 58388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was a Chomsky stuff, not a Markov stuff < 1560183533 172331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chomsky class 3 languages or something < 1560183563 809141 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, cont.) and I didn’t know he stated them in that enhanced way < 1560183605 775807 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I called them bare now, this is a model where there are two kinds of replacements, one marked with → and one marked with →. < 1560183609 980618 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, probably didn't < 1560183621 134380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Chomsky class 3 is more like the bare Markov algorithms < 1560183624 717160 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter one, if succeed, finish the computation < 1560183631 725867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1 differs from them in that it has a finite control with an instruction pointer < 1560183639 652163 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with each instruction doing a string search and replacement < 1560183643 801886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like sed with the s and t commands < 1560183692 766124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, you know, without the capture features, so it's much more ugly to swap strings < 1560183711 82736 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, do Chomsky classes correspond to computational formalisms directly? < 1560183720 288515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1560183737 110371 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t know how to turn a grammar to a function :/ < 1560183811 109694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chomsky class 0 is regular expressions; class 1 general context-free langugaes is the weirdest and doesn't correspond to anything older; class 2 is a bit odd too, it's turing machines with storage bounded to a constant factor of input size; class 3 is just every recursive function < 1560183841 172298 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1560183849 157775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it every recursively enumerable language? < 1560183852 431215 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know < 1560183999 577976 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: inverting cantor looks painful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairing_function#Inverting_the_Cantor_pairing_function < 1560184016 280665 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a radical’s in there < 1560184026 948847 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a floor not directly after it < 1560184066 6320 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe someone needs to look up if it’s done in a simpler way (and still without μ) < 1560184072 470707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I was thinking maybe you can use rec to implement division and modulo, with two rec loops nested in the former case, and then implement any two-counter Minksy machine, but that sounds very painful, and is probably also historically impossible < 1560184227 832122 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: certaintly you can implement division and modulo, as constrained difference and ordering predicates are pretty simple to express. prec is a pain when rec is not Church-enabled < 1560184256 459701 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560184277 829315 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a big pain, and others are more or less nice afterwards < 1560184286 428249 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you don't even need general division and modulo, just divison and modulo by a constant < 1560184306 393485 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric : and is probably also historically impossible => why? < 1560184307 383232 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should create an index page for Donald Knuth on the wiki, pointing to the languages he's created < 1560184325 596700 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: nice idea! < 1560184331 119603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I don't think people knew that two-counter Minsky machines were tc back when that old primitive recursive definition was formulated < 1560184384 748139 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can implement that other one with one multiplicative counter < 1560184524 993035 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm also I did a time ago write something sketchy in notepad about translating recursive functions to Minsky machines, but it’s of course not that interesting in this regard. I even used extended ones and it translated quite nicely. Shame it does so one-way only < 1560184555 92713 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *still* translated quite nicely, I mean < 1560184614 611408 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the translation generalizes nicely to other inductive types, modulo the stuff about μ (lexicographic iteration seems not so simple to implement) < 1560184749 195961 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that generalization hints there should be an opcode CLR, as for types with several nullary constructors we need all of them explicit for a nicer look > 1560184901 742374 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Donald Knuth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63327 5* 03B jonas 5* (+526) 10Created page with "'''Donald E. Knuth''' is a legend who is writing the bible ''The Art of Computer Programming''. Programming languages connected to him include: * He designed the MIX (Knut..." < 1560184909 467289 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Knuth < 1560184910 214249 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1318) b_jonas: hmm, it's fairly surprising that you can make a coherent esolang whose primary feature is that it wasn't written by Donald Knuth < 1560184921 925854 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray :) < 1560185334 945940 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded of https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tpk.i somehow < 1560185383 502452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I remember for this bit: "PLEASE NOTICE THAT VARIABLE NAMES AND SUBROUTINE NAMES USE THE 5-BIT TELEPRINTER CODE IN LETTER-SHIFT MODE, NAMELY / E @ A : S I U 1/4 D R J N F C K T Z L W H Y P Q O B G " M X V $" < 1560185598 836120 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: as for Knuth's stuff, I've been reading the sgb_flip random generator lately. it's quite simple, only uses shifts and additions and subtractions on 32-bit integers, < 1560185644 298621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet somehow none of these collections of historical random generator functions seem to include it: it's not in GSL, in boost random, or in the C++ standard random functions < 1560185713 71522 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been reading it because I wanted a reasonable random function to implement a program that needs randomness in an esoteric language, and since this one is by Knuth, it's reliable, and would also serve to test my arithmetic implementatino < 1560185876 460353 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation in a reasonable language that already has 32-bit arithmetic fits in an irc line < 1560185945 736014 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, provided it also has arrays < 1560185968 757026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in, like, perl or C < 1560186141 574962 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv_ < 1560186205 606386 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560186416 38458 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.238.204.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560187528 278105 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1560191894 418117 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I’m writing a haskellish bare primitive recursive formalism definition and there is a certain dilemma in description: < 1560191894 524159 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i) z(ero) is a nullary function, and one can compose a function with an empty list of functions (f ∘ ()), which would turn a nullary f into arbitrary-ary function, but existence of those is quite a burden in formalization; < 1560191894 524197 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ii) there is z_0, z_1 etc. for any number of arguments, and one can’t make f ∘ (), and there’s no possibility of making an arbitrary-ary functions; alas, many z’s looks unnatural; < 1560191894 524206 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iii) z is nullary and f ∘ () is not allowed: one still can extend nullary functions to take more arguments by applying rec; I think it’s computationally unwanted; < 1560191894 524215 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one you’d prefer? < 1560191944 788042 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a stable definition to use later anyplace < 1560192103 829822 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it’s computationally unwanted => if one to implement this formalism in their esolang to show it’s TC. Though unlikely, it’s possible that this road could be the easiest than T. or M. machines or waterfall model or such, and then this thing would be an unnecessary strain on implementation < 1560192124 603159 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/easiest/easier < 1560192410 794632 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560192616 603818 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560192789 584811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I like functions with arbitrary fixed arities, like in Amicus or Backus's FP, but if you want to represent them in Haskell, that would complicate the definition < 1560192863 173163 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1560193375 434340 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I meant functions which can be assigned several different types like N → N, N² → N, N³ → N… — f ∘ () makes such ones. We can, in principle, make ∘ depend on extraneous value fixing arity of the result, but I don’t like that. Though it’s a valid unlisted alternative which I will call (i+) < 1560193435 786808 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for Haskell, that description doesn’t need to be a valid code, I just like how it looks in haskellish formulation < 1560193624 426150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: Amicus solves that by making any function also work as a function with a higher arity and just ignore the rest of the arguments < 1560193659 467410 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all take a list of arguments as input, but basically the only way you can access that list is through projection < 1560193680 841434 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1560193715 669779 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or passing the list forward to another functino < 1560193733 693640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't entirely true, but close enough < 1560193761 759866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: should we make this to the old rusty recursive formalism, though? < 1560193765 639748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/make/do < 1560193788 335275 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn’t it complicate some proofs < 1560193791 294069 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I'm not trying to design a language here, just understand why that old definition works < 1560193800 422714 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one doesn't work this way < 1560193868 131754 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll go with (iii) for a time. This choice is irrelevant for expressing plus or times or hopefully division < 1560193979 819115 :tuxcrafting!~user@37.142.2.12 QUIT :Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.1 < 1560194474 360070 :rain2!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560194630 620246 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560195214 462195 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hm there’s a mistake in my definition of rec, I forgot to apply x1 … xn to z and s, they were meant to be preapplied and then it looks no simpler than the classic definition < 1560195273 440730 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could write “… where f … z′ … s′ …; z′ = z x1 … xn; s′ = s x1 … xn” < 1560195326 940715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! non-ascii primes < 1560195366 320599 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, no, it’s still better as f is pre-applied < 1560195377 279349 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I love them″ < 1560195389 787007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are nicer in big font sizes > 1560195636 312816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(0)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63328&oldid=57597 5* 03B jonas 5* (-38) 10rename refs to Amicus < 1560196809 247608 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1560197391 536330 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1560197417 428405 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98439.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560197503 235621 :oklopol!~kvirc@85-76-128-38-nat.elisa-mobile.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1560198465 220697 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvwcowwtzukkuvib JOIN :#esoteric > 1560198618 866754 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Adar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63329&oldid=63319 5* 03Ais523 5* (+364) 10/* Computational class */ how PDAs and FSMs cross-compile < 1560198642 280407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? superexponential growth < 1560198643 371539 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!! < 1560198718 287686 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat wisdom/superd*h < 1560198719 3258 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superduperexponential growth is exponential growth on top of exponential growth. < 1560198739 202621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat wisdom/superd*l < 1560198740 104421 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal is where mroman lives. < 1560198742 823409 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1560198875 405486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat wisdom/superc*h < 1560198876 188755 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. < 1560199408 905742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Nintendo ensure that the different characters in a Super Smash Bros game are somewhat balanced? Do they nerf overpowered characters in patches, or do they just get it right the first time? < 1560199763 524692 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mroman < 1560199764 885058 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. < 1560199793 784272 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-147-169-185.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1560199853 6133 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm I hope he's fine < 1560199924 655670 :budonyc!~budonyc@c-24-147-169-185.hsd1.ct.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1560200603 240392 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1560201553 569015 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too fuckn hot today < 1560201555 164040 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :95°F < 1560201996 274040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1560201997 969783 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 102120Z AUTO 01007KT 340V050 4100 RA SCT009/// BKN014/// //////CB 11/11 Q1011 TEMPO BKN009 < 1560202019 654432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very ///. < 1560202125 775790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ctof 25 < 1560202126 434029 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :25.00°C = 77.00°F < 1560202141 150665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ It's that temperature here, but that's late in the evening < 1560202146 38375 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was hotter during the day < 1560202374 576465 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1560202410 752488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been about 11-13 °C the whole day, and raining. < 1560202422 761130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in the UK? < 1560202427 567960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1560202437 416185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also an amber warning in place. < 1560202438 765646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Flooding and transport disruption likely from heavy rain in southeast England during Monday afternoon and evening." < 1560202450 601849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had yellow warnings for like two weeks now < 1560202457 25236 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for thunderstorms < 1560202462 762630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every day < 1560202470 352814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check what the latest is < 1560202552 558380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually check blitzortung.org for thunderstorms. < 1560202572 588069 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.126 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1560202598 316328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, now it's heat warnings < 1560202629 315201 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yellow heat warnings for tomorrow and wednesday, orange for thursday < 1560202654 205347 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange means daily average likely over 27°C < 1560202688 25886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bothers me more is that they predict over 20°C for every night, which means I'll have trouble sleeping well < 1560202751 449882 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're having pretty nice days up here < 1560202780 838767 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.smhi.se/vadret/vadret-i-sverige/ortsprognoser/q/Stockholm/2673730#tab=0,chart=1 I can't complain too much < 1560203201 319700 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vlgyvdfxlnlktyma QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1560203519 169708 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1560204137 248798 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KSFO < 1560204137 742921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSFO 102156Z VRB03KT 10SM BKN200 35/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP145 T03500128 < 1560205378 736081 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :against rule-gaming, this clause from ProofWiki ToS seems reasonable: < 1560205382 559535 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :> > I agree to be bound by what may reasonably be called the intent of these terms of service, rather than by their strict literal interpretation. < 1560205385 98568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘>’ < 1560205386 50022 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru NICK :arseniiv < 1560205403 846857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack sorry buddy < 1560205404 232022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1560205511 377528 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Remainder_is_Primitive_Recursive and https://proofwiki.org/wiki/Quotient_is_Primitive_Recursive can be simplified slightly if taking x mod 0 = x rather than taking x mod 0 = 0 as is there < 1560206243 774742 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I really only asked for division by a constant integer, so that's not too important to me < 1560206247 152591 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1560206365 105271 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I thought implementing multiplicative Minsky machine would be nice < 1560206471 644644 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just finished writing floordiv, though nothing yet is tested < 1560206482 901209 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit my reasoning isn't very sound, because I'm not sure that division and modulo really is enough to make a two-counter Minsky machine to work. in fact it might not be enough. < 1560206494 597044 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that old defn of primitive recursive that is < 1560206687 42385 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quick test of my head, when “m divides 0” is true? would it correspond to m mod 0 = 0, that is, m = 0? If not, I’ll have to write something more complex than (eq0 ∘ mod) < 1560206804 66329 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I swapped the arguments < 1560206819 689356 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :“m is divisible by 0”, it should be < 1560206920 885845 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 divides m iff ∃k. 0k = m, so we definitely have k = 0 then, and it’s consistent with my favorite mod < 1560207200 917737 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think we will need cons after all < 1560207303 590169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to describe how one would write a function (State, RegisterValue) → (State, RegisterValue) and then write a function which iterates this one until State = Halt < 1560207367 349011 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor me < 1560207417 689695 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.239.251.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll continue tomorrow, then, and now I’ll check if there is a page “Cantor pairing is …” on ProofWiki < 1560207814 969000 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-143.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1560208773 246230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1560208785 912263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is the only number that's divisible by 0 < 1560208809 18623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of thing often becomes very important in declarative languages, I've been responsible for catching quite a few cases like that in Brachylog and persuading the author to implement them < 1560208825 345671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're important to avoid needing to write edge cases manually < 1560208831 895810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on similar reasoning, 0/0 = _