> 1557446658 834711 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing Machine But Way Worse14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61896&oldid=61887 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10wikify a little bit > 1557446726 400938 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61897&oldid=61895 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+589) 10/* Not TC Conjecture: bitch cannot copy one bit from memory to another part of memory while retaining existing data */ Int-e completed the challenge, thank you, and well done! > 1557446972 958469 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ND14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61898&oldid=39447 5* 03Odog8 5* (+64) 10/* Testing... 1221121? */ new section > 1557446992 186288 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:ND14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61899&oldid=61898 5* 03Odog8 5* (-64) 10/* Testing... 1221121? */ < 1557447383 306242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: as i give up trying to follow today's development on Talk:Bitch, i'd like to officially complain that mediawiki's default diff sucks supernova-sized balls hth < 1557447432 874778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`owrjan < 1557447434 140532 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1557447449 421485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/Noah/mediawiki's default diff/ < 1557447451 399581 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1557447488 414254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that ruins the pun hth < 1557447488 501471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is there a better diff? < 1557447508 445689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've heard of WikEdDiff. < 1557447536 542661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i use on wikipedia (although it has problems which huge changes). < 1557447541 129380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`swrjan s/ark/arkup/ < 1557447543 494154 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty eldrazi grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arkup-nemesis is mediawiki's default diff. He twice punned without noticing it. < 1557447544 460592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in my browser at least. < 1557447556 161105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? owrjan < 1557447557 337367 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :owrjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1557447672 332175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp twin < 1557447674 141520 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☆:Twinkle, twinkle, little star! \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ boorjan:boorjan is oerjan's uneducated twin. \ c#:C Pound is Java's good twin. \ myname:myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother. \ orin:orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the < 1557447690 406818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn owrjan is oerjan's wise twin. < 1557447692 422424 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'owrjan': owrjan is oerjan's wise twin. < 1557447700 595850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grWp twin < 1557447701 985330 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:other side of the international date line. \ örjan:Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters. \ ørjan:Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it. \ owrjan:owrjan is oerjan's wise twin. \ pico:pico is the useless twin of nano. \ sewerjan:sewerjan is oerjan's extremely poor twin. \ t < 1557447709 492239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A's microedits are annoying. and sometimes disruptive... https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bitch&oldid=61860 and https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bitch&oldid=61861 stood out to me (the latter reads: *MWHAHAHA* delete the attempts of proving TC) > 1557447736 438519 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61900&oldid=61897 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+1814) 10/* Not TC Conjecture: bitch cannot copy one bit from memory to another part of memory while retaining existing data */ response to Helen, with my attempt and using cell load structure < 1557447747 654233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1557447748 360597 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/3:int-e:twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. \ typoerjan:typoerjan is oerjan's clumsy twin. \ אrjan:אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. < 1557447755 604832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't know, though, is whether A and Helen are communicating by other channel. < 1557447789 705270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs another channel when you can edit the wiki for every message? < 1557447794 135492 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( prime twins and secondary twins ) < 1557447810 362472 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well if you erase other people's contributions... < 1557447822 576678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a bug in the line breaking code, by the way? < 1557447832 21536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 2 ended in t and line 3 started with i < 1557447834 61350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twint-e < 1557447835 225652 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :twint-e is int-e's stupid twin. He sometimes hijacks int-e's keyboard and spouts nonsense. < 1557447837 180442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the w? < 1557447860 363444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` n 2 | tail -c 20 < 1557447861 287593 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ely poor twin. \ tw < 1557447868 220139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, the line was cut off. < 1557447876 125338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did a hostname change or something? < 1557447887 215340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt spout < 1557447887 881155 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/spout: No such file or directory < 1557447893 227757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt sport < 1557447893 978114 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat "${2:-/dev/stdin}" >tmp/spout.raw; distort tmp/spout.raw | spore "${1-1}" < 1557447898 607779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cbt distort < 1557447899 241182 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N = 460 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ s = len(data) \ mw = len(str(2*s/N))-1 \ mw += s > ((N-2)*9-18*mw+1)*((10**mw-1)/9)-mw \ p=0 \ i=1 \ while (p sled bin/distort//s/460/459/ \ 11510:2018-04-14 sled bin/distort//s/N = 350/N = 460/ \ 10972:2017-05-29 sled bin/distort//8s,int,str, \ 10971:2017-05-29 revert \ 10970:2017-05-29 sled bin/distort//s,int,str, \ 10969:2017-05-29 sled bin/distort//2s:, math::;8cmw = len(int(2*s/N))-1 \ 10968:2017-05-29 fetch bin/distort https://hackego.esolangs.org/get/bin/distort < 1557448154 212904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shaventions < 1557448155 328709 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, {s,p}led/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1/4/5, edit. Taneb did not invent them yet. < 1557448165 27705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit sure was a great shavention < 1557448296 401930 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hurl bin/distort < 1557448297 249606 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/distort < 1557448358 332769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso's own threshold is supposed to be strict enough to not change unpredictably. < 1557448370 895498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but I know what changed. < 1557448394 933111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to identify as user "h": :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi now it's :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi < 1557448421 521560 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that happens to push it one character over the 512 byte limit for PRIVMSG. < 1557448434 90044 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you noticed :) < 1557448445 141617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it had a larger margin of safety than that. < 1557448451 724435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it's been optomilized. < 1557448480 815652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :April 14th, 2018: sled bin/distort//s/N = 350/N = 460/ < 1557448515 748935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess so. < 1557448541 429693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try to shorten it back down again though. < 1557448557 756954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's good for N to match HackEso's bound exactly. < 1557448564 102432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So `2 is reliable. < 1557448593 788164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, except it also adds a header. < 1557448603 745122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not complaining, I find it satisfying to know what changed :) < 1557448631 655155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEso's bound is kind of complex, because it's "460 rounded down to the previous full Unicode codepoint if the text decodes as valid UTF-8; otherwise 460". < 1557448672 901602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does distort handle that? < 1557448672 998084 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put 444 there :) < 1557448685 929513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where the ~h came from. < 1557448695 53995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stock multibot code always just puts the nick there. < 1557448704 357629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you require the entire text to decode as valid UTF-8, or do you just step back up to 3 continuation bytes from the end? < 1557448718 120149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the entire text needs to be valid UTF-8 for that rule to trigger. > 1557448722 723278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61901&oldid=61900 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+902) 10/* Page content deletions */ new section < 1557448733 960829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because some IRC clients use that funny dual encoding. < 1557448741 677481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm did you ever use any irc proxy for hackeso? < 1557448761 375739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bitbucket.org/fizzie/hackbot/src/2bc6f94/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd#lines-64 < 1557448761 602180 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot the proper term. < 1557448767 286188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bouncer? < 1557448771 231013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I recall. < 1557448793 269691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1557448795 514269 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:erkin//An erkin is a variety of cucumber: the West Indian or burr erkin (Cucumis anguria), which produces a somewhat smaller fruit than the garden cucumber (Cucumis sativus). \ copumpkin//copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. \ ant//Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways. \ doodad//Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. \ bottom//Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, < 1557448797 438589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1557448798 277818 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: if not careful. There be balrogs. < 1557448802 383298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just had a patched version of multibot or something. < 1557448832 9781 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc bouncer was the term I forgot < 1557448859 676522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like a trampoline? < 1557448861 424313 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks. (I googled... resulting in a race condition) < 1557448874 906426 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: less dangerous, I think < 1557448901 351150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Race conditions on trampolines sound pretty dangerous. < 1557448915 637892 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's for people who want to appear constantly online and still use their own graphical irc client from home < 1557448943 508770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampoline_(computing) has an entry for Befunge. < 1557448949 328747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just want the flexibility of switching clients every now and then, without having to change logging formats and all that. < 1557448955 273036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's why I use bip.) < 1557448963 507762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is such a scow. < 1557448965 254412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except the logging format is unconfigurable and kind of sucky.) < 1557448984 837393 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557448996 148189 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1557448996 517531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1557449000 488276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1557449000 815550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only HackEso used a trampoline < 1557449016 146848 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it bounced right back! < 1557449045 862413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it great how using nested functions in gcc will make your whole stack executable? < 1557449048 73374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went back to ~h. With an identd reply, it could be one character shorter. < 1557449073 640233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`1 for i in {1..100}; do echo -n 0123456789; done < 1557449074 872109 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/3:01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234 < 1557449075 866884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1557449076 652042 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:56789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 < 1557449082 209277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` for i in {1..100}; do echo -n 0123456789; done < 1557449083 191883 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 < 1557449089 239439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 for i in {1..100}; do echo -n 0123456789; done < 1557449090 350830 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3:56789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789 < 1557449094 807436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1557449120 473808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd test this in /msg but everything would be different there. < 1557449140 400055 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /nick _esoteric ;-) < 1557449176 104922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick eric_esot < 1557449219 995430 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ice_Store" is a good one. < 1557449224 918316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://new.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=esoteric&t=500&a=n < 1557449251 47338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :core_site < 1557449269 704990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does distort handle that? <-- that's the whole point of the fancy math < 1557449292 208076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok but i didn't actually read the code hth < 1557449295 580179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/distort < 1557449296 572355 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/bin/distort < 1557449460 803366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Is HackEso secretly a drug dealer? It rearranges to: Has Coke ) < 1557449568 676434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: pretty sure you were around when i made it hth < 1557449608 780536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the fancy math doesn't work if it has to do unicode acrobatics as well. < 1557449637 289581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i don't know how to.) < 1557449723 598835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, my question was whether distort does unicode acrobatics. < 1557449731 639866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the fancy math do? < 1557449805 115360 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557449874 55694 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well done on your solution to my challenge on that page, and the other contributions! I'm honestly surprised the solution looks so straightforward in the end, but I imagine it took quite a bit of work to get there, so thanks for taking the time to decipher the interpreter < 1557449932 591009 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to make progress by trying many different smaller programs through the interpreter and seeing what happend, black box style. < 1557450009 836988 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: if you look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitch#Addition you'll see that it's based on similar gymnastics < 1557450020 226172 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though quite a bit more elaborate) < 1557450084 417484 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my main starting point was the interpreter itself, observing that when instructions are chained, the entire state is copied and only the resulting accumulator is used. < 1557450116 405890 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I still spent a couple of hours getting to the point where that insight was finally useful. < 1557450213 415649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it makes sure the lines have the requested total length even though the line number prefix changes < 1557450229 35657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1557450239 420044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make it handle UTF-8 as well? twh < 1557450258 198371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hth < 1557450269 622416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnifh < 1557450280 144944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stby < 1557450285 678777 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: after my response to Helen, where I mentioned the addition example, it occurred to me it probably had to be using a technique like that to work at all.. I thought it was working because the user provided at least the second operand, and wanted to take that out of the equation < 1557450316 158145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? stby < 1557450317 559087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stby? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1557450414 453763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easily googleable hth < 1557450429 784913 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get Helen's structure to work, but I suspect there is way. The challenge was an invitation for Helen to show how it worked on a simple example. < 1557450444 246296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.bing.com/search?q=stby < 1557450447 477760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nah I got it < 1557450447 637548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i probably said because the very reverend over at schlock mercenary used it at one point. < 1557450452 447761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Meaning "Sorry to bother you"» < 1557450453 211604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*said it < 1557450463 978613 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I started out with "sorry ..." and now I've realized my mistake. < 1557450484 259082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that _is_ one option, although not the one i was thinking of. < 1557450494 157344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's quite all right, old chap < 1557450504 198738 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my technique of saying something wrong on the internet and then waiting to be corrected has worked as intended :) < 1557450536 270537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was there an xkcd about that < 1557450559 322953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that < 1557450562 933772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the "someone is wrong on the internet" one) < 1557450569 46768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone made a comic about a thing < 1557450577 983760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know whether that language is TC though. (I'm certaint that it's close enough to make no practical difference.) < 1557450584 290189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*certain < 1557450597 605729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think shachaf is having a sarcasm leak < 1557450643 55465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i just remember someone mentioning that technique, it probably wasn't xkcd. < 1557450643 117643 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I was _that_ wrong, I hypothesised a "clever solution" would involve placing bounds, thus invalidating TC, which seems to be the case. < 1557450646 240131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that whatshisname made a comic strip about a thing that is much older than the comic strip is not relevant to anything < 1557450655 68364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps you're thinking of http://bash.org/?152037 < 1557450696 360154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i don't think i've seen that before < 1557450715 287316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was a different one < 1557450811 246199 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get the "kindred spirit" thing, did they leave out something < 1557450834 545766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, it's ion < 1557450837 782173 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I will post some of my pre-disqualified solutions to the problem at some point, I implemented a lookup table version based on your ROT13 code, which I knew was possible but didn't figure out until I saw your technique. < 1557450841 16786 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: how about ]1^^]1^^[1[1 < 1557450864 861695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: What language should I use instead of C? < 1557450898 595946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you? I imagine you'd enjoy machine code and dip switches. < 1557450912 191538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that doesn't sound that great. < 1557450918 305424 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To clarify, I want to use it to write software. < 1557450928 368625 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: looks close, but seems to map 1 -> 3 ? < 1557450966 923770 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 6 -> 4 < 1557450983 215112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: oh I dropped the wrong bit. ^^]1]1^^[1[1 < 1557451024 261141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the storage thing also get copied when chaining, so that only an outermost bit shift has effect on it? < 1557451033 237461 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1557451058 80551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, i might understand enough to think about stuff now. if i want. < 1557451066 304569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point of the ^^: it executes , but discards the effect on the storage < 1557451069 408085 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I came up with a strange joke version that works by using the user as a stack, but may be using an interpreter input bug: \&6|]1&1/#0\&6|\/ < 1557451075 845685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1557451105 40393 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :input has to be given twice, seperated by a space, then user must input the number given by the program to get the correct answer < 1557451119 640766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exploits that A^(A^A') = A' < 1557451125 24094 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1557451285 761617 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It made me think that any PDA with input and output could have the IO co-opted as a way to use the user as a second stack. ais523 mentioned that is how Wiki Cyclic Tag works, although the wiki page doesn't go into detail < 1557451445 895001 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, maybe more about this tomorrow. Or maybe not, I might have exhausted the low-hanging fruits :) < 1557451457 106661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time int-e < 1557451458 363147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for int-e is Fri May 10 03:24:17 2019 < 1557451483 618136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :later today then :P < 1557451493 129566 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: |[3&22]4|[4&7 is a version I came up with recently and independently of your solution, which seems to work to, presumably using the same principle, although I hadn't finished reviewing it < 1557451737 709786 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^]1]1^^[1[1 looks nice < 1557456083 966538 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1557457690 414348 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eryqwleecihccclq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1557462469 904967 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0 < 1557466749 942845 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557470702 955812 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1557473501 844651 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1557476059 137363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61902&oldid=61901 5* 03A 5* (+2057) 10 > 1557476391 724322 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61903&oldid=61902 5* 03A 5* (-938) 10/* Proof that the Halting problem is trivial in bitch */ < 1557476404 479133 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what > 1557476410 333121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61904&oldid=61892 5* 03A 5* (-83) 10/* Impossible */ > 1557476546 259135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61905&oldid=61903 5* 03A 5* (+16169) 10YEAH! Successfully made the page longer > 1557476811 495797 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61906&oldid=61905 5* 03A 5* (-871) 10/* [Ongoing] Equivalency between bitch and Home Row by User:Helen and User:A */ > 1557476866 114309 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61907&oldid=61906 5* 03A 5* (-328) 10/* Not TC Conjecture: bitch cannot copy one bit from memory to another part of memory while retaining existing data */ < 1557478893 158540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1557479982 831157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Judging from the difference in capitalization, I think most of the lines were copy-pasted, and only the "brings a tear" and "kindred spirit" ones were written by the person speaking. < 1557479983 233503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1557482679 231641 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@hgv18.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric > 1557483043 536996 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61908&oldid=61907 5* 03A 5* (+24) 10Add a trivial (but probably useful) operation > 1557483583 566143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61909&oldid=61908 5* 03A 5* (+395) 10Add some operations that I find in Assembly language (not implemented, but might be possible in bitch) > 1557483616 280084 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61910&oldid=61909 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Sketch: A RAM Machine */ > 1557484099 732786 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61911&oldid=61910 5* 03A 5* (+37) 10/* Sketch: A RAM Machine */ < 1557486754 307540 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkqbyxcbnvbfprgm JOIN :#esoteric > 1557487002 189575 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61912&oldid=61911 5* 03A 5* (-128) 10Delete some commands that are definitely not possible or trivial < 1557487969 268105 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1557488020 699117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61913&oldid=61912 5* 03A 5* (+185) 10Explain why I removed some content < 1557488077 303878 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1557488077 389975 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1557488082 207689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61914&oldid=61913 5* 03A 5* (-30) 10/* Attempts at proving Turing-completeness */ > 1557488420 892453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:A14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61915&oldid=61642 5* 03A 5* (-1692) 10Blanked the page > 1557488596 416777 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61916&oldid=61914 5* 03A 5* (-20) 10/* Operations */ < 1557489209 235379 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557489341 995284 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557489378 348892 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.omniglot.com/blog/?p=17470 Omniglot blog writes about the obsolete ]cyrillic letter multiocular o < 1557489677 169529 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favorite letters with no use < 1557489833 512553 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bad pun «серафимы многооконные» (many-windowed instead many-eyed) which completely isn’t going out of my head when I remember that letter < 1557489861 797013 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that only counts as a letter for historical reasons. These days advertisments and product packaging is full of title text with some letters replaced by images, making the text ugly and often unreadable. < 1557489901 800522 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lack of spaces. Stupid modern designers show their total lack of respect to our typographic traditions. < 1557490564 960747 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that only counts as a letter for historical reasons. These days advertisments and product packaging is full of title text with some letters replaced by images, making the text ugly and often unreadable. => agree < 1557490632 826040 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Unicode terms, it’s more like a “letter-like form” < 1557490692 869427 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and how many alphabets had one time or another included an ampersand in them? I know this about English, but that’s all < 1557491812 825388 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1557492764 313852 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1557493491 572464 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have concieved by any mean the weakest logic possible, of those containing implication and MP < 1557493502 926496 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a single axiom [schema] A → A < 1557493582 524642 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it corresponds to the subset of combinatory calculus with terms containing only I and variables. Not saying “typed”, as any such term seems typable < 1557493694 686412 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it’s a nice counterpart to the “trivial logic” which has an axiom A, or which has a single truth value, which in this case is perfectly interchangeable < 1557493755 443630 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how expressive is it? < 1557493758 923184 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I think right, classical logic is the strongest one weaker than this one < 1557493777 248615 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: both are fairly inexpressive, I’d say totally < 1557493817 53822 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are interesting mainly as bounds, at least for me < 1557493817 132961 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you deduct anything with just A -> A < 1557493953 335769 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, now I think should there be no axioms at all < 1557494001 912287 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are true: true < 1557494015 545611 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are known to nor be true: < 1557494094 242129 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cont.) if we have implication and MP, it should in some way mirror inference, as we want the deduction theorem present, at least I do, then this axiom A → A is unavoidable < 1557494132 707387 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is the rationale for this logic: it’s as weak as possible < 1557494150 10075 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has trivial deductions A ⊦ A < 1557494308 161928 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, now I think it’s in a sense incomplete, if we are to say about deduction theorem. It’s needed that axioms S and K be true < 1557494313 344903 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1557494344 872003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without that metatheorem, the weakest logic is indeed one without any axioms at all < 1557494539 432615 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it still is fairly interesting: it corresponds to a subset of the combinator calculus with terms on variables only < 1557494607 918386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is MP though... you may add a linearity constraint if you want to make things less interesting < 1557494684 880717 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and drop the K) < 1557494945 611026 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP is an one-sided manifestation of the deduction theorem, that wich we could state as a Hilbertian inference rule < 1557494952 710025 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think more or less this < 1557494965 980414 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made it up right now < 1557494991 950447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grWp ꙮ < 1557494993 217912 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ꙮ:ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric. \ mꙮnqy:mꙮnqy is watching you. < 1557494999 920150 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a poem or something? < 1557495014 356894 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and yeah, I haven’t thought of linearity < 1557495325 392196 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-73-86-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu > 1557495590 188800 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61917&oldid=61916 5* 03A 5* (+249) 10Ask < 1557495647 35289 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm by the way do you know what the deduction theorem would necessitate in a first-order logic? Should it have ∃? should it have even ∀? (well, if no and no, then the situation would be too dire, so I presume, with some other intuitive feelings, ∀ should live) < 1557495731 522152 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I’m fairly set on that it could have = and the equality axioms if so needed < 1557495806 512608 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi > 1557496037 100341 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61918&oldid=61917 5* 03A 5* (-119) 10/* Sketch: A RAM Machine */ < 1557496397 301074 :TheWild!~Thunderbi@hgv18.internetdsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: TheWild > 1557497169 43606 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61919&oldid=61918 5* 03Int-e 5* (+288) 10/* Operations */ < 1557497354 648632 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think it should have both to qualify as "first-order logic", but I don't know what other fragments people may have found interesting enough to study. < 1557498010 486573 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: okay, thanks! > 1557498191 359992 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61920&oldid=61904 5* 03Int-e 5* (+815) 10/* Common Algorithms */ On ^^ < 1557498674 947555 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1557499779 128017 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61921&oldid=61919 5* 03A 5* (+169) 10/* Operations */ > 1557499829 609014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*W14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61922&oldid=20457 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+127) 10/* External resources */ Help! WTF the usage of [[Template:Wayback]] is?! > 1557500008 120823 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Excela14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61923&oldid=30479 5* 03YamTokTpaFa 5* (+71) 10/* External resources */ So wtf the template usage is? < 1557501531 273306 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1557502720 862026 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-110-85.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557502720 953871 :sleffy!~sleffy@157-131-110-85.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1557503489 236102 :MDead!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557503579 269426 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557503583 877822 :MDead!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1557503835 225933 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557503903 268734 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@natx-145.kulnet.kuleuven.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1557503975 406391 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a term for a language which is not Turing complete itself, but if you pipe its input into an interpreter it is? < 1557504016 613424 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it just has to produce any fixed output that you desire? < 1557504045 388328 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I mean, an interpreter for the same language < 1557504069 486758 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I write a program in Language X, which outputs another Language X program, and so on < 1557504083 611301 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1557504096 451196 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, is such a language possible?) < 1557504101 557653 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557504179 674639 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a language is called "the language of text documents" < 1557504188 10380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: bitch may be such a language if used in a streaming fashion (you can unroll an outer working loop in the first program, effectively giving you nesting level 2 for loops. The second program can still terminate by issuing a . instruction.) < 1557504192 571114 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any text document simply outputs itself < 1557504224 724539 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: not in such a way that the system so formed is Turing complete when the original language isn't < 1557504226 96309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: so it's a matter of a precise definition. (Also bitch may still turn out to be TC by itself. It's just unclear how.) < 1557504260 196094 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and then you can just pick your favourite Turing complete language interpreter as the second bit < 1557504264 868708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Would you allow that? Using a finite program to produce an infinite (but very regular...) one? < 1557504278 158609 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: no, it's the same interpreter < 1557504289 73255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah the twist is that the two languages are supposed to be the same. < 1557504290 924712 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I guess < 1557504306 449128 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1557504309 361480 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case... < 1557504312 424548 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but also the output of the second program can be fed into a third interpreter instance < 1557504331 594520 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how do you deal with inputs though? < 1557504346 632381 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I choose the language to be the lambda calculus, and I choose the interpreter to be something which performs a single beta reduction step < 1557504393 962247 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I haven't thought much about it < 1557504439 613876 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:fb71:644f:8715:a169:9456 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing one beta reduction isn't Turing complete, but finding a fixed point of that is. < 1557504464 904558 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: OK, that makes sense < 1557504980 855192 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1557505009 730875 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( A asked a question about how my decrement implementation works. I don't want to tackle that, I'm afraid it would be like jumping into an abyss... endless follow-up questions about increasingly trivial things. I have yet to see any sign of knowledge in A... ) < 1557505040 392535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how unfair I'm being in that assessment. < 1557505071 636907 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me be unfair with you < 1557505088 340915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: be my guest. < 1557505220 925160 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may be somewhat biased about A but I embrace it with all my heart. Oh < 1557505279 265710 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557505884 311008 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric > 1557506442 952870 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61924&oldid=61920 5* 03Int-e 5* (-6) 10/* The ^^ Trick */ formatting < 1557506783 162759 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1557507594 514842 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61925&oldid=61924 5* 03Int-e 5* (+140) 10/* Bitwise Instructions */ clarify what happens to the storage when instructions are chained > 1557507732 487603 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61926&oldid=61925 5* 03Int-e 5* (-21) 10/* Bitwise Instructions */ formatting < 1557508344 260064 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.201.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557508507 180756 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.208.27 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds > 1557508535 500207 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61927&oldid=61926 5* 03Int-e 5* (+19) 10more formatting plus minor clarifications < 1557508611 388306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1557508811 142638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61928&oldid=61921 5* 03Int-e 5* (+167) 10/* Operations */ try to help to self-help. < 1557508864 565172 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.201.175 NICK :arseniiv > 1557509331 766881 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61929&oldid=61928 5* 03Int-e 5* (+329) 10/* Not TC Conjecture: bitch cannot copy one bit from memory to another part of memory while retaining existing data */ note on alternative bit copying code < 1557509854 238317 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1557511317 355741 :jinn!~jinn@jinn.army JOIN :#esoteric < 1557511336 249767 :jinn!~jinn@jinn.army PART :#esoteric < 1557512062 896000 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkqbyxcbnvbfprgm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1557512091 255295 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557512450 669990 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric > 1557516401 26320 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Stackylogic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=61930 5* 03Prof Apex 5* (+1197) 10Created page with "Stackylogic is a stack-based programming language where every line is a stack of bits. It was created by [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/26997/calvins-hobbies Calvin..." < 1557516799 335981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Kaspall (a webcomic) is tough to get into: After 200 pages (4 years!) things are slowly making sense... < 1557516944 212463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1557517443 320933 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07*W14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61931&oldid=61922 5* 03Salpynx 5* (-87) 10/* External resources */ wayback machine is a web archiver, see [[Template:deadlink]] for slightly more info < 1557517578 49571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cromulent < 1557517579 453890 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cromulent? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1557517608 256824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` set -e; cd wisdom; grep -REi cromulent . < 1557517609 489957 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1557518558 248239 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1557518588 737048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today is hot in here < 1557518592 713091 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?metar CYVR < 1557518593 185245 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYVR 101900Z 24007KT 30SM FEW040 18/13 A2994 RMK CF1 CF TR SLP139 DENSITY ALT 400FT < 1557518852 146545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@mtear koak < 1557518852 623556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 101953Z 29010KT 10SM FEW015 FEW200 19/11 A2982 RMK AO2 SLP097 T01890106 > 1557518915 311052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Bitch14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61932&oldid=61929 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+48) 10Indenting responses and signing helps make the page easier to follow. Fixed some < 1557518969 530248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the weather is predicted to get even warmer < 1557519439 283009 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cape < 1557519440 736620 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cape? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1557520699 165858 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557521315 332180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of storing a Huffman tree, has been mentioned on here before. It is mentioned store how many codes of each length. Yes, you can do, with first how many 1-bit codes, how many 2-bit codes, etc until all of the codes are assigned. < 1557521395 880520 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can keep track of how many codes are available, as well as how many bits are needed for the highest possible number. Subtract the number of bits used from the maximum, and then store that number, skipping any bits of that number which are implied (for example, if it can be "00" or "01" or "10" (0 to 2) then you can abbreviate "10" as just "1"). < 1557521418 695687 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also add one more bit at the beginning to indicate whether the largest number of bits per code is odd or even. < 1557521709 736174 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1557521753 705192 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, ais523 asked about Huffman trees < 1557521764 612527 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1557522072 469748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm traveling to the Netherlands for vacation starting tomorrow, so I won't be reachable through IRC or email until 2019-05-21. < 1557522139 231417 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm reading the airplane baggage regulations. So scissors have to go to the carry-on luggage; spare batteries for my camera have to go to the hand luggage. < 1557522196 206391 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/carry-on/checked in/ < 1557522258 774514 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm required to cover the terminals of the spare camera battery with insulating tape to reduce the risk of an accidental short circuit. < 1557522301 907299 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable < 1557522314 43362 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a lithium battery fire they want it in the cabin so it can be contained < 1557522323 876791 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a fire in the cargo hold and it spreads then they're pretty much fucked < 1557522491 911038 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take some spare insulation tape to be able to keep these regulations on the way back too < 1557523178 278569 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1557523310 985327 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1557523316 465425 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal electrical tape? < 1557523319 898153 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1557523326 572242 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll have to cheat a bit with the hand luggage < 1557523407 526038 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size limit is 0.55 m max height, but I really want to bring my 40 l backpack, which is about 0.60 high, < 1557523440 23775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to fold the top down enough on request, and pack it not too full so I can do that without having to remove more items than I can keep on my person < 1557523490 563399 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://leftoversalad.com/c/015_programmingpeople/ < 1557524808 417678 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1557524857 278274 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can also build a huffman tree adaptively while decoding a stream so that no huffman tree needs t obe serialized < 1557525125 94891 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain1: OK, how do you build that then? < 1557525216 644390 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with a standard tree and each time you see a symbol update your counters and improve the tree to match the probabilities < 1557525312 687143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you have to rebuild the tree each time then? < 1557525319 939352 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1557525336 681123 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as compression and decompression uses the same algorithm you can do this < 1557525344 97817 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could rebuild the tree after 64 symbols < 1557525371 937702 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to reset the tree occasionally too, in case one part of the file is biased in a different way than another part < 1557525410 736030 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that aligns with whatever esoteric needs ais523 had though < 1557525564 422821 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there may be a different use. < 1557525603 280938 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.201.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1557525631 15457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of Glulx (the way the Huffman tree is stored in Glulx is rather inefficient), the text is not "streaming" and rather you give the address of the beginning of a huffed text. > 1557527295 667185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Bitch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61933&oldid=61927 5* 03Int-e 5* (+104) 10/* Implementation */ another implementation < 1557527489 175933 :MDude!~MDude@c-174-55-125-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557528700 232282 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:6c53:1ff4:7f6c:32d0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557529140 629133 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1557529370 653956 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1557529483 109033 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1557530290 660878 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism. < 1557530340 827907 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1557530585 414195 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de NICK :Hooloovo0 < 1557530727 344581 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557531000 312836 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1557531168 806542 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric > 1557531264 321512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Uyjhmn n14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=61934 5* 03Mipinggfxgbtftybfhfyhfn 5* (+12) 10Created page with "I hate this." < 1557531337 233325 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1557531339 258630 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1557531806 968835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric