< 1557014533 934007 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice! < 1557014547 27615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :finallyi < 1557014592 924444 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rust standard library now documentedly defines std::cell::UnsafeCell and std::cell::Cell with the #[repr(transparent)] attribute < 1557014660 304226 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus also std::mem::ManuallyDrop too < 1557014834 62905 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with the game Rogue is that if there are objects on the ground and you can't carry it, it will not tell you what it is that you are unable to pick up. < 1557014999 332282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rogue doesn't have corpses, does it? how do you get objects that you can't carry? < 1557015022 978879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you are already carrying too many items < 1557015392 236750 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrwbvplfxaazjxuj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1557015739 386886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nuff < 1557015740 416637 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this. < 1557015776 83192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd forgotten about that. < 1557015851 945411 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@seen hppavilion[1] < 1557015852 225012 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :hPpa\/iLI0N[1] < 1557015856 800211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1557015879 182615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help seen < 1557015879 425336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1557015887 856243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help @seen < 1557015888 165733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1557015897 674026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I tell what the spelling correction corrects it to? < 1557016041 193815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general or in this specific case? < 1557016061 835328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@sean < 1557016062 38189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: slap learn keal < 1557016067 321058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@leet foo < 1557016067 562416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo < 1557016071 730806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that did not work < 1557016096 440466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: both < 1557016097 642679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I located @leet by just doing @listmodules and a @list on any likely subjects. < 1557016112 161246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also where has hppavilion disappeared? < 1557016119 887340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this particular case it's @leet, which I already knew. < 1557016135 986692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was being stubborn about the way you phrased your question or something and unhelpful for that reason. < 1557016152 208801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I made fizzie do unnecessary work. < 1557016154 214538 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the other regular besides boily who's disappeared recently < 1557016232 85751 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@leet Do you wish to make the mountains bare their head < 1557016232 356404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :dO joo \/\/I5H 7o MAk3 TH3 mOun+4iNz B4r3 +h3iR |-|eaD < 1557016245 5557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@aeet < 1557016245 287074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say again? < 1557016250 18612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@aeen < 1557016250 274743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say again? < 1557016258 66228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@aeen Hm < 1557016258 340372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :h/\/\ < 1557016285 868644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@saen Hm < 1557016286 73150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1557016300 219581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@seea Hm < 1557016300 487028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: vera leet < 1557016303 710039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1557016372 653549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be some command that's got just the wrong levenshtein neighbors to find it by such small adjustments... < 1557016372 864584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help leet < 1557016373 85851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :elite . Translate English to elitespeak < 1557016398 192001 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help elite < 1557016398 429410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :elite . Translate English to elitespeak < 1557016426 7566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@elite elite < 1557016426 254991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :31It3 < 1557016599 178958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only call to levenshteinDistance is in closests, and the only call to closests is right there in doMsg where it gets triggered directly if there's just one match. So I don't think there's a straightforward way to ask what it got mapped to. < 1557016610 984081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1557016651 972198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in buubot, a call to a function macro can take the first one word or first two word as function name, and I'm not sure how to query which one it does < 1557016664 868599 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least there you can just query the source of both of those possibilities < 1557016717 361032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1557016959 560247 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you able to fix the program? < 1557016965 217480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is that someone else's job?) < 1557017518 655325 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run id "foo" < 1557017520 840691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "foo" < 1557017528 72352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's anyone's actual job. But probably it's closer to being someone else's job. < 1557017541 243485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just reading https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/master/lambdabot-core/src/Lambdabot/Plugin/Core/Base.hs#L230 < 1557017595 258188 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557017607 563878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but who set up that instance? < 1557017808 247536 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue NICK :Hooloovo0 < 1557017887 217851 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1557018064 949830 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: @seen has been disabled for ages now, because it leaks memory somehow... possibly it's not even technically a leak but just the fact that there are too many users being tracked. < 1557018163 877029 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see < 1557018274 948980 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm running the thing, I do occasional maintenance but usually I don't go beyond fixing broken things... < 1557018391 374719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think spell is broken too, by the way. < 1557018393 846861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@spell something < 1557018394 144122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `spell' failed with: aspell: readCreateProcessWithExitCode: runInteractiveProcess: exec: does not exist (No such file or directory) < 1557018434 803911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not even sure what it should do, just came across it when listing things.) < 1557018472 64540 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm that looks simple enough... < 1557018482 362386 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@spell somethingg < 1557018482 636697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :something somethings something's < 1557018489 726943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that's what it does. < 1557018505 613043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@all-dicts < 1557018505 802715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :all-dicts ... Query all databases on dict.org < 1557018512 354387 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1557018605 371053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf: nazi True = lift on >> say "Spelling nazi engaged." < 1557018746 120213 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vera radar < 1557018747 834980 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "radar". < 1557019052 524486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run replicate "foo" 4 < 1557019057 896388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1557019059 898032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • Couldn't match expected type ‘Int’ with actual type ‘[Char]’ < 1557019061 900675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : • In the first argument of ‘replicate’, namely ‘"foo"’ < 1557019064 650468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run replicate 4 "foo" < 1557019066 649606 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["foo","foo","foo","foo"] < 1557019067 515050 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ru replicate 4 "foo" < 1557019069 429103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["foo","foo","foo","foo"] < 1557019070 258558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@r replicate 4 "foo" < 1557019070 583137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: rc reconnect remember repoint roll run v @ ? . < 1557019076 875018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@u replicate 4 "foo" < 1557019077 90472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless unshift-topic uptime url v @ ? . < 1557019080 119870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@n replicate 4 "foo" < 1557019080 312218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: nazi-off nazi-on nixon wn v @ ? . < 1557019082 22025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1557019096 570957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1557019096 789705 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. < 1557019098 217266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: use privmsg < 1557019387 116624 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@thank < 1557019387 320173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: thank you thanks < 1557019391 935241 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help thank < 1557019392 232880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1557019400 110146 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list dummy < 1557019400 401073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :dummy provides: eval choose dummy bug id show wiki paste docs learn haskellers botsnack get-shapr shootout faq googleit hackage thanks thx thank you ping tic-tac-toe < 1557019590 446069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least half of these are memorials of a sillier time on #haskell. < 1557019621 758159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thank lambdabot < 1557019622 452807 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thank: not found < 1557019626 44769 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks lambdabot < 1557019626 728433 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, lambdabot. Thambdabot. < 1557019629 190188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1557019707 168433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^thanks lambdabot < 1557019707 245846 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, lambdabot. Thambdabot. < 1557019718 81994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just like to verify that every now and then.) < 1557019734 670707 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list quote < 1557019735 33865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote provides: quote remember forget ghc fortune yow arr yarr keal b52s pinky brain palomer girl19 v yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw protontorpedo nixon farber < 1557019740 893796 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1557019741 705456 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :799) 499) What is miff-muffered moof? that's a tough question [...] miff-muffered moof sounds like a setup to something, but itidus screws it up. < 1557019867 420870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^thanks t0st < 1557019867 506589 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, t0st. T0st. < 1557019876 480731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks t0st < 1557019877 238641 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, t0st. Th0st. < 1557019907 102964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1557019916 772985 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thocking? < 1557020008 904180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^thanks firefox < 1557020008 986379 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::2 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, firefox. Thirefox. < 1557020070 332870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks mozilla < 1557020071 56016 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, mozilla. Thozilla. < 1557020418 157020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-25-78.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1557021014 934112 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unideco 5⁄2 < 1557021015 465082 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unideco: not found < 1557021019 473023 :orin!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 5⁄2 < 1557021020 192707 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0035 DIGIT FIVE] [U+2044 FRACTION SLASH] [U+0032 DIGIT TWO] < 1557024071 224483 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557024367 211302 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1557026736 692549 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you able to tell them about my ideas about pidfd? They would still have CLONE_PIDFD too I forgot to mention, but even with what I mentioned you should have that too > 1557026739 977438 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61709&oldid=61626 5* 03Falsaidi 5* (+342) 10Added my own introduction < 1557030092 134655 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1557031714 738762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1557032711 846355 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1557037013 994649 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1557037619 301925 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1557037958 622661 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1557038006 950601 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1557039212 332370 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1557039364 272557 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557039461 274509 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: brb < 1557039500 939566 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1557039938 327091 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557042178 131843 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557042873 205975 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557043787 166700 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1557044191 741314 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557045488 298924 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric > 1557046014 925581 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61710&oldid=61701 5* 03A 5* (+61) 10Fix style and add a golfing tutorial > 1557046178 484073 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61711&oldid=58350 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+264) 10Fixed a bit of spelling > 1557046242 24973 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07(PTM)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61712&oldid=52664 5* 03RealUndefined 5* (+12) 10improve format > 1557046289 864011 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61713&oldid=61710 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (-8) 10/* External Resources / Reference Implementation */ The interpreter isn't much of a WIP as i thought it was. > 1557046491 20515 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=61714 5* 03A 5* (+695) 10Created page with "This page tries to teach the reader how to golf programs in [[Keg]]. The official tutorial did not even mention golfing techniques. == Problem #1. Golf the [[Hello, World!]] p..." > 1557047117 585034 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61715&oldid=61714 5* 03A 5* (+1591) 10 > 1557047268 412968 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61716&oldid=61715 5* 03A 5* (+151) 10/* Tips that don't seem to fit anywhere */ > 1557047564 507902 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61717&oldid=61713 5* 03A 5* (+61) 10Add links > 1557047696 699083 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61718&oldid=61716 5* 03A 5* (+167) 10/* Tips that don't seem to fit anywhere but still relate to golfing */ < 1557047955 199491 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557048316 9881 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-142-91-85.range86-142.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1557048323 242653 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557048421 705344 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@host86-142-91-85.range86-142.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone played this C++Robots programming game? I'm looking for any robot code (or koth standings) http://www.gamerz.net/c++robots/ < 1557049027 764361 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557050712 69960 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557050987 61267 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1557053885 21153 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61719&oldid=61718 5* 03JonoCode9374 5* (+16) 10/* Problem #2. Golf the Deadfish interpreter. */ just added a little extra detail < 1557057208 200883 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557057345 487611 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1557057369 331091 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557057467 169318 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557057528 64749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :free association: "Golf the Deadfish" -- "Sushi the Goldfish" < 1557058783 242877 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1557059173 166106 :LKoen!~LKoen@crh60-h01-176-151-31-205.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1557059237 326089 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.3.209.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1557059448 613356 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61720&oldid=61719 5* 03A 5* (+108) 10Small detail > 1557059777 134131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61721&oldid=61720 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10grm > 1557059847 880381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61722&oldid=61721 5* 03A 5* (-7) 10/* Problem #2. Golf the Deadfish interpreter. */ < 1557059922 772138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1557059930 23819 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61723&oldid=61722 5* 03A 5* (+10) 10Found another grm, and make the except look like normal talking < 1557060273 997246 :Lykaina!~lyka@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PART :#esoteric > 1557060447 889465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61724&oldid=61723 5* 03A 5* (+17) 10Fix the article that I made in a hurry > 1557060865 903213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Keg/Golfing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61725&oldid=61724 5* 03A 5* (+22) 10*sigh* > 1557061844 994421 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=61726 5* 03A 5* (+411) 10Write an incomplete message. TODO > 1557062172 145169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61727&oldid=61726 5* 03A 5* (+659) 10End my talk > 1557062219 491935 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61728&oldid=61727 5* 03A 5* (+67) 10 > 1557062284 715192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61729&oldid=61728 5* 03A 5* (-117) 10simplify my talk < 1557063274 328885 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1557063692 818365 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1557063760 436435 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61730&oldid=61711 5* 03A 5* (+136) 10Post an answer (you can undo it if you dislike it.) > 1557063930 210457 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61731&oldid=61730 5* 03A 5* (+39) 10 < 1557063960 785384 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-56-81.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1557064534 192611 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:JonoCode937414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61732&oldid=61731 5* 03A 5* (-175) 10Undo all of my edits > 1557064704 460737 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61733&oldid=61729 5* 03A 5* (+4) 10 > 1557064982 215936 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Keg14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61734&oldid=61733 5* 03A 5* (-1024) 10It does not matter, though. Iteration is enough. < 1557066973 244201 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557067227 169667 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557068313 267224 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning all > 1557068539 621152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07History (programming language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61735&oldid=61706 5* 03A 5* (-212) 10Simplify the commands < 1557068661 377412 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any esoteric DSP languages? < 1557068729 82440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or esoteric frameworks for (possibly simulated) analog computing? < 1557068928 622587 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming languages where the source code is an audio file? music? where you can take the FFT of your program to get another program? < 1557068992 61547 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on where you draw the line, I think the answer is yes to a couple of those < 1557069054 796495 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais's Checkout, Codegolf SE's Marbelous come to mind < 1557069336 962280 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourier transforms are too good < 1557069365 148320 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are you saying I can convert between time and frequency domain?" "No, Neo. I'm saying that when you're ready, you won't have to." < 1557069377 412889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music as syntax does happen, but not generally encoded as audio -- https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fugue comes to mind. < 1557069450 132622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitoven and Musical-X are in the same general area. < 1557069464 252435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Velato. < 1557069470 853087 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if there were a language where you could play a program on an actual musical instrument, record it, and then execute it < 1557069480 318457 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting stuff like MIDI keyboards) < 1557069494 572066 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a guy playing a MIDI clarinet once. it was pretty cool < 1557069503 192141 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a reed it has a breath sensor < 1557069536 93613 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my father in law has a huge MIDI pipe organ controller with 3 ranks of keys, a set of pedals, and stops < 1557069545 26901 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pretty much the centeripiece of their apartment < 1557069593 978083 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's connected to some absurdly powerful computer, like a top of the line Core i7 with 128 GB of RAM, which runs Hauptwerk which is an extremely accurate pipe organ simulator < 1557069664 190333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Is it a physics-based simulator or what? < 1557069774 921895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of my university coworkers were doing / had done work on simulating the physics of string instruments. < 1557070573 9661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's example of context-unaware bad word filtering: "cons**cuous" & "sus**cuous". < 1557070685 774529 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvuunpjzubdepftz PRIVMSG #esoteric :scunthorpe < 1557070724 511978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't get it. < 1557070798 774458 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except maybe that it won't catch "suspicious") < 1557070922 910101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: "spic" it's a bad word. And they used one of those filters that cares not of word boundaries. < 1557070973 436048 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol scunthorpe < 1557070984 303064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Like the clbuttic "buttbuttinate" example. Except this one adds stars.) < 1557071054 780720 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I still don't understand why Hungary can have settlements called Csabaszabadi, Rábaszentandrás, Rábaszentmihály, and Rábaszentmiklós < 1557071324 363069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh. makes sense. < 1557071326 673888 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also it was "sus**cious", I just messed that one up.) < 1557071565 540689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1557071796 111757 :_zM!4dbfdebc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.191.222.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557071834 381310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( ѕuѕрісіоuѕ ) < 1557071897 17816 :_zM!4dbfdebc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.191.222.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a BytePusher peogram that generates the Mandelbrot set: https://gitlab.com/0-zM/mandelbrot-bytepusher < 1557071927 264645 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ѕ < 1557071928 152201 :HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0455 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DZE] < 1557071932 724621 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know of that one. < 1557072140 451924 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah apparently that particular substitution has made it into various spam mails; google reports 1460 hits. < 1557072215 520787 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for "ѕuѕрісіоuѕ") < 1557073109 123559 :_zM!4dbfdebc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.191.222.188 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1557073468 302493 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557073730 313065 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1557074055 795216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it replace "spice" too? < 1557076723 299237 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557076986 296503 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1557077380 238617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there lists of NNTP server software with comparisons? < 1557077454 465348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many different ones, written in different programming languages, with different licenses, and with different capabilities. Some use SQLite or other SQL databases, and some do not use SQL. Some connect to other servers too and some don't. Some also interact with web forums or mailing lists. < 1557078153 416936 :gerzytet!~gerzytet@71.214.80.128 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1557079059 311106 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1557082070 70397 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557082316 441178 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557082336 53198 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1557082466 220771 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1557082470 338630 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1557083313 471767 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ NICK :spacekitten < 1557083439 448987 :spacekitten!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ NICK :rdococ < 1557084068 361772 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557084801 464995 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557085755 230403 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zfnlgwh4k4ewtw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1557085830 80734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if any NNTP server has a command to search for articles with a specified value in the "References" header? < 1557086865 773605 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This would be useful if you want to find replies to a message, since all replies to a single message have the same value for the References header.) < 1557086983 267969 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557087116 452136 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557087133 56808 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e JOIN :#esoteric < 1557089134 302097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557089151 349089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Analogia is basically an esolang that's a specification of how analog computers work < 1557089177 823957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether it's TC, I keep making mistakes trying to prove it TC because the set of things it can and can't do is so different from normal < 1557089198 863626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the DSP side of things, C-INTERCAL can run on (some) microcontrollers, so you could probably adapt it to DSPs fairly easily < 1557089207 828351 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1557089219 60710 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean more like a language that has DSP type of stuff as primitives < 1557089220 515284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I should check if the CLC-intercal homepage is up < 1557089226 81500 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is designed around making, like, filter pipelines < 1557089234 463462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mentioned, Fugue uses a MIDI file as source code, but it's still command-based < 1557089244 878535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1557089247 306081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably lost forever < 1557089305 67221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, the fast fourier transform is pretty much the only DSP primitive that isn't found on more normal processors too < 1557089315 227425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of what you do are addition, multiplication, FFT < 1557089336 890355 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you implement Analogia? < 1557089380 718735 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that, while computation on reals is Turing-uncomputable in general, that given sufficient continuity constraints on the equations, it becomes r.e. < 1557089383 399580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and I'm not even sure it's computable < 1557089401 870973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it probably is computuable, but guesses as to computational class are quite different from proofs < 1557089421 314894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possibly stupid question: y = ∫y+y ∂x ... shouldn't the integrand be x+x? < 1557089425 375485 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you figured out anything new about that letter permutation problem? < 1557089431 260023 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could just implement it numerically and accept that some pathological programs will not run properly < 1557089438 841460 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may not run properly on an analog computer < 1557089445 514369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they're both legal < 1557089450 98575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have different meanings < 1557089456 333409 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly you can make chaotic things using op amps that will produce wildly different results when disturbed by noise < 1557089468 867571 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some cool ones here, http://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html < 1557089481 473997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm wondering how you got x^2 out of that. < 1557089490 979912 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to Circuits -> Op amp -> Chaotic circuits < 1557089504 249172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: real-life analog computers aren't TC because the integrators will quickly hit implementation limits if you try to use them to store bignums, and the only possible other place you could store arbitrary data is in using arbitrarily high accuracy for the fractional component of values < 1557089504 563695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be able to make chaotic things if it's Turing-complete < 1557089534 519991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, I see < 1557089559 49905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can't expect real-life analog computers to be able to handle arbitrarily many decimal places of accuracy, they can't be built that accurate < 1557089563 325753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in practice they have finite storage < 1557089569 912189 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of my point < 1557089595 316751 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it would be fun to actually build these chaotic circuits and hook them to my scope in XY mode and use some variable resistors/capacitors so i can mess with them < 1557089628 561367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, y = ∫y+y ∂x would resolve to something like y = A*e**2x for some constant A, wouldn't it? < 1557089647 803026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable resistors are way cheaper and more reliable than variable capacitors < 1557089663 906179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although variable capacitors look more electronicsy < 1557089681 320915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that looks more plausible (A being the initial value, so 0 isn't a good one) < 1557089718 399386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of parenthesis there still bothers me < 1557089738 807301 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, that was assuming x0 = 0; A = y0 * e^(-2x0) < 1557089742 145811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be y = ∫(y+y)∂x and y = A*e**(2x) < 1557089761 405408 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is true < 1557089777 913343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the language source code format, as you defined it, doesn't allow the former < 1557089782 230613 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to build a magnetic loop antenna and by far the most expensive component is a varicap < 1557089805 945440 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depending on how much power you want to transmit, it needs a really high breakdown voltage (so vacuum dielectric is often used) > 1557089813 26947 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analogia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61736&oldid=59717 5* 03Ais523 5* (+10) 10fix the comment in the example < 1557089850 687747 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the @0 in the expression if y@0 ;-) < 1557089855 489383 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is > 1557089881 24076 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Analogia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=61737&oldid=61736 5* 03Ais523 5* (-8) 10/* Syntax */ sigh < 1557089909 194730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thanks, I can follow that example now at least :) < 1557089930 445346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought to do instruction set for audio output in a computer design I was thinking of, to have one instruction for events: If there is no pending event, wait until there is. If there is a pending event, cancel that event and jump to the event handler for that event. < 1557089950 199151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my last few esolangs each have the property that they were thought of long in advance, and then written up just before a meeting when I was tired < 1557089963 639111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the write-up is often fairly nonsensical until someone else reads it and tells me what's wrong < 1557089984 453164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each channel has a current value, new value, current duration, new duration, and expiry flag. When it expires, it sets the expiry flag and copies the new value/duration to the current value/duration; the expiry flag is then a event flag, which is cleared once the event is acknowledged. < 1557089985 835234 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it's been almost two years since I thought up Consumer Society < 1557090018 551616 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think of that? < 1557090069 820829 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In addition to the expiry events, there is also the receive data events.) < 1557090080 924399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and then there are arithmetic connectors and SRAM registers to transform the channel values to sound? < 1557090108 156890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure if piecewise-linear is enough to produce a good set of envelopes; also, are the "values" frequency or amplitude or both? < 1557090122 44636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timbre is also probably relevant, unless you want to write chiptune < 1557090138 479833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes. < 1557090144 963889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a good way to define an analog piecewise-linear output, though < 1557090200 366270 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The values are amplitude only. < 1557090217 871340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and they aren't being interpolated, so you have step changes, not piecewise-linear < 1557090249 40903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need some way to sweep the values, because a sudden change in amplitude produces a step pulse, which has a very distinctive sound and one that people normally dislike using in music < 1557090267 704046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like a clicking noise but a bit more distinctive than that < 1557090317 919729 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you'd have arithmetic connection between them, as in add, subtract, multiply, min, max, and sram registers that read every odd cycle and store a new value every even cycle, and you can get linear or polynomial or sine wave from those < 1557090321 52662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… the exception may be if you change the amplitude at the moment the oscillating output crosses zero < 1557090398 324244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The duration would ordinarily be small enough (if the instructions run at 8.82 MHz then you have 200 instruction cycles to change the value of a 44100 Hz signal; if it is faster then you will have more). Many older computers I think did not interpolate, but anyways a analog filter can also be added if needed (that is what Amiga does) < 1557090440 564609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fwiw, the way practical sound cards nowadays do audio output is for the channels to use a queue of samples, specifying the voltage to output for each sample; the sound card will take a sample 44100 times per second, and the software will fill the queue back up much less frequently than that < 1557090465 194228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes if a computer's lagging really badly, the sound card repeats the same sound over and over, which I think is because the queue is a circular buffer and if nothing refills it it therefore ends up repeating itself < 1557090475 978413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what new sound cards do. old ones have analog components in them, connected in a fixed manner, with parameters adjustable < 1557090496 425581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, old ones normally had frequency and amplitude envelope generators < 1557090517 407508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and supposedly noise generators too, though I don't know what those do < 1557090519 792940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which let you specify what function should be used for the frequency and/or amplitude over time < 1557090532 832912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: they're basically just random number generators, which use the random numbers directly as samples < 1557090549 747351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result is an approximation of white noise < 1557090555 922946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1557090562 906203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that could owrk < 1557090572 374132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The audio program can store stuff in the sound card's memory and make their own queue if you want to; the "receive data" events can be used to receive the data from the CPU if you want to do. You could also instead define it as having period and waveforms and stuff and implement that in the audio program instead, if you want to do. < 1557090574 921887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily you don't need a very good random number generator for that, just good enough that human ears can't spot the pattern; I think LFSRs were the common implementation < 1557090606 758887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, those would probably be the easiest < 1557090616 653468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they need fewer bits of state and not much electronics < 1557090631 525155 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only constant multiplication and addition < 1557090649 922856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's LCRNG < 1557090656 864407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFSR/LFSRNG is even simpler in hardware < 1557090661 966053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a shift register and a few xors < 1557090666 914924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some old computers do use LFSR for the noise channel < 1557090669 737150 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1557090675 326941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't you need a longer shift register for that? < 1557090684 211064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow think that would require slightly bigger hardware < 1557090701 873116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, the period's still the same as that of an LCRNG on the same register size < 1557090703 652819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess it's not much of a difference < 1557090708 857058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With what I have, you would be able to program it to act more like old computers or newer ones, or something else that you want to do, too) < 1557090809 201418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently the version on Wikipedia has no constant term and thus the period is 1 shorter (as you have to avoid the all-zeroes state) < 1557091168 917233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfk86 (the TI-86 port of robotfindskitten) uses a LFSR-based RNG for positioning the NKIs, for no particular reason. < 1557091180 939172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it use to position the KIs? < 1557091227 870822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, there's just one (per round). But I guess the same thing, I just didn't think of that. < 1557091247 524426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for picking the descriptions. < 1557091302 239020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's seeded by the time you spend on the splash screen, so in theory you can win every time if you can measure that accurately enough. But that'd kind of miss the point of the game. < 1557091328 831735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculators seem like a bad platform for running robotfindskitten, as the executable is mostly text and not much logic < 1557091346 644609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I've seen people speedrun robotfindskitten, which I suspect is also missing the point of the game < 1557091364 601725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there isn't much code. I did a simple LZ77/Huffman compression for the text. < 1557091388 320162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but then speedrunning can be enjoyable on its own, even if it doesn't give the original experience of the first gameplay < 1557091398 489605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of more broken speedruns are like that < 1557091400 998507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: have you /played/ robotfindskitten? :-D < 1557091407 567253 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1557091428 237827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calls itself a "zen simulation", FWIW. < 1557091443 711762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of games where I'd argue that speedrunning can be enjoyable even if it misses the point of the game, most games in fact < 1557091446 822254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfk is a special case < 1557091452 930974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1557091469 181568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also try porting to Glulx or Z-machine, which have built-in features for text compression (I wrote a assembler for Glulx, and for Z-machine there is ZAPF) < 1557091519 733863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardest part about making that work would be the screen-oriented/vi-keys controls < 1557091524 700304 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, I think the way that the Huffman tree is stored in Glulx is rather inefficient) < 1557091526 910481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Inform port of the game. < 1557091544 600148 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In Glulx you can use a text grid window, and it supports single key input. < 1557091572 178679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It won't run on CheapGlk, but it will still work on GlkTerm and most other implementations) < 1557091584 194264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have ideas for efficient ways to store Huffman trees? I need one of those for a project I'm working on, and I have my own ideas too, but yours might be better < 1557091648 442450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I mentioned here something before. < 1557091671 637191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the readme, the Inform port doesn't compile to Glulx "because of copious use of Z-machine assembly instructions": https://github.com/DavidGriffith/rfk-inform < 1557091672 269171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Involving the Kraft/MacMillian inequality, I think. < 1557091799 106868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Inform even uses an entirely different syntax for Z-machine assembly instructions than ZAP does; the names of the instructions are also different. (With Glulx, the names of the instructions are same but the syntax for operands differs in different implementations.) < 1557091809 235547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my approach is sort-of the reverse of that, I store the number of codewords of each length, and that's all you need to work out the codeword themselves (assuming a canonical Huffman code; there's no reason to use a non-canonical code) < 1557091854 735449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you just need to store the meanings of the codewords in some arbitrary order (e.g. length order, tiebroken by lexicographical order), and there's even scope for optimisation there because if two codewords have the same length you can swap their meanings without any loss in efficiency < 1557091876 115259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was also assuming canonical. However, I was perhaps assuming a different kind of method for meanings of codewords. < 1557092020 741628 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is better probably depends what kind of data you are compressing; what you do is probably better for what you were thinking of.) < 1557092071 764219 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a example Glulx program with glasm syntax in esolang wiki in the article about Deadfish. (I also wrote a Z-machine implementation on Glulx with glasm.) < 1557092218 764847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: have you figured out anything new about that letter permutation problem? ← it's NP-complete but I found an approximate solution that was good enough for my purposes < 1557092227 678392 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice < 1557092233 404408 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you prove it's NP-complete? < 1557092241 976675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clique cover problem < 1557092254 558599 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if do you want to write any programs in Glulx? < 1557092255 515037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not actually a proof I think, just a guess < 1557092265 794640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not sure you can translate sufficiently arbitrary graphs < 1557092281 19023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Wikipedia article implies that clique cover is NP-complete for most types of graph, except the ones where it obviously isn't < 1557092286 148420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't car eto look further < 1557092290 397065 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so we don't know yet if there's a polynomial solution < 1557092393 536867 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about it only a little, and all I got was see why the simple polynomial solution doesn't actually work < 1557092430 962219 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really know whether there's a polynomial solution or not < 1557092890 545519 :aloo_shu!~aloo_shu@195.135.250.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1557092924 850751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well it's literally just the clique cover problem on the graph specified by "sequences are compatible with each other", assuming that pairwise compatbility in a group means that the whole group is compatible at once < 1557092938 613489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question boils down to what sort of graph the sequences can generate < 1557092944 954901 :aloo_shu!~aloo_shu@195.135.250.52 PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 2.4" < 1557092966 754827 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1557092977 437074 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've been misunderstanding something here < 1557092988 358668 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to re-read what you wrote about this probably < 1557094814 354246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should learn some python3 < 1557095142 640447 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1557095393 238140 :rodgort!~rodgort@68.ip-149-56-14.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557095826 461323 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:284d:8592:d701:520e QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1557097236 207027 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc115608-york6-2-0-cust168.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1557098816 76713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, robotfindskitten has an info file < 1557098848 697422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a man page, but that's less surprising < 1557098915 411047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also move the robot using both vikeys and emacs-keys (emacs-keys are somewhat impractical for a roguelike…) < 1557098958 922890 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you move them with wasd (or waxd)? numpad? < 1557098969 423507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :numpad yes, I think wasd no, but I'll try < 1557099011 425104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs keys are no more impractical for a roguelike than they are for emacs, are they? < 1557099037 50420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WASD doesn't work < 1557099078 928764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think one-pass UI layout is practical? < 1557099081 326085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so vi has this insert mode / command mode split, in insert mode almost all keys just insert themselves literally and to leave it you press Escape to enter command mode < 1557099092 599734 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nor does wordstar keys, as in ^E ^S ^X ^D right? < 1557099114 291404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Emacs, instead of there being keys to toggle between the modes, you're effectively in insert mode except when holding a modifier key < 1557099124 847278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modal UIs are so good. < 1557099126 331154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for basic things like movement, you hold ctrl to give the command and release to return to insert mode < 1557099132 238923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been adding modal UIs all over the place. < 1557099140 453073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess people normally call them menus. < 1557099149 43901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, control or alt in emacs < 1557099155 366347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pretty much equally as fast as the vi method once you're used to it, and has the advantage that you can't be in the wrong mode by mistake, but it's kind-of silly if your game doesn't /have/ insert mode < 1557099168 992805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I press the printscreen key, and then I get a list of options: [w]indow, [r]oot, [s]election < 1557099195 469875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't have to remember to press alt-shift-printscreen or cmd-shift-5 or whatever people normally do. < 1557099199 952053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vi has, in general, faster cursor movement and basic editing commands than emacs, but it's not because it's modal, it's just because it has a better selection of them) < 1557099207 550964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this innovation i should get a nobel prize in ui design < 1557099214 579087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think back in the 8-bit era, there was a popular keyboard control scheme for top-view games where IIRC your left hand controls up-down movement, and the right hand left-right movement < 1557099233 275751 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, there are menus like that in many programs, although there are also programs having modes without menus (such as vi and ZZTQED) < 1557099236 145736 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs keys is sort of like that but with more contortion < 1557099261 936713 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, I have played some game like that < 1557099270 628764 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't use printscreen, I just use gimp to make screenshots < 1557099286 748114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have found that some support the arrow keys as well, but some don't) < 1557099302 825065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you like Xlib? < 1557099304 112851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use printscreen for screenshots either; I use programs I wrote myself < 1557099333 938802 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because I almost always want to edit the screenshot once I take it, so I need gimp anyway < 1557099368 794678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once used the files in /dev that hold copies of the contents of the various virtual terminals to take screenshots < 1557099378 320358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, I have used Xlib to write X client programs (including a screenshot program) < 1557099415 997732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think X was even running at the time, or I wouldn't have had to resort to that method < 1557099418 972511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What files are those, and what format? < 1557099429 674258 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/vcs1 and /dev/vcsa1 < 1557099450 178880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: see man 4 vcs < 1557099462 194470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I wanted to implement the X protocol myself, but unfortunately using Xlib is mandatory. < 1557099465 197720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1557099467 994541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vcs just has the bytes in it, vcsa has the attributes too < 1557099472 326820 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK, I will look < 1557099476 986976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the format is basically the first line, followed by the second line, followed by the third line, etc., but they aren't separated with newlines, rather each line contains every character on it up to the edge of the screen, things "past the end of the line" are padded with NUL or space < 1557099485 718680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There is also xcb in case you don't like Xlib < 1557099508 977817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you have to use xcb if you want to use OpenGL. < 1557099516 265116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, you have to use xlib. < 1557099549 361362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how can it be mandatory? you can have a basic X client that connects to a remote X server through a tcp socket. how can the server know whether you're Xlib? < 1557099559 782643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only mandatory for OpenGL. < 1557099578 913932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think GPU rendering is mandatory for software nowadays. < 1557099582 574171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1557099607 319147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it like the PC text screen format? I read that man page, and so also, how to determine the font? < 1557099616 625481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily GPU rendering, but at least client-side rendering, as opposed to having the X server draw graphics for you < 1557099632 167496 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are ioctls for that, see man console_ioctl < 1557099638 10368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of liking this, do you like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19701275 ? < 1557099641 286747 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, I have an example for that < 1557099655 258099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often just draw graphics by the X server; it works well enough for most stuff < 1557099687 647080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: As you can see, I already answered that question. < 1557099696 946681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=793690 reads the font with that ioctl < 1557099721 460935 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not work on modern linux if it uses framebuffer console, that is, when console has the graphics card in graphics mode actually, not in VGA text mode < 1557099737 891493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking whether you liked the comment "Do you like this?". < 1557099744 5431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I was asking int-e, I think. < 1557099757 972042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's also an ioctl to read the video mode and the palette < 1557099762 921794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1557099796 470956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to read the cursor setting < 1557099875 384502 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid question. how does SNES Earthbound display text in a proportional width font? isn't that impossible in the SNES graphics hardware? < 1557099935 426559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not just a few instances of text. it has a lot of in-game text, and also allows you to enter a character name and displays that with the proportional pitch font too < 1557099948 50330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. I know some programs on NES/Famicom use proportional text, and it would be done by writing the text into CHR RAM < 1557099959 765699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much how SNES works, but it might do something similar < 1557099971 611166 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1557100029 284909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much RAM does that graphics chip have? can it store four separate character tables, each of 255 cells, for the four layers? < 1557100032 301937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or three at least? < 1557100048 712199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only uses two layers < 1557100051 704202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :teh game that is < 1557100054 820433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various video moeds < 1557100067 792647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably switches too < 1557100092 907558 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like magic < 1557100094 883897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: IIRC the NES could use CHR RAM that was stored on the cartridge (rather than the console) < 1557100103 967463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1557100105 160126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was no limit in the console, but the more you wanted, the more expensive the cartridge would have to be < 1557100114 998613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that seems possible, if the rom is fast enough < 1557100148 441247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if the SNES worked the same way < 1557100175 476382 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely < 1557100199 935013 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In NES, the console has only 2K RAM for the PPU (usually used only for the name tables, not the pattern tables), and the cartridge contains ROM or RAM for the pattern tables. < 1557100234 874797 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but this is the SNES, its hardware is a bit stronger < 1557100240 295910 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@95.105.3.209.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1557100249 259059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-213.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I don't know how it is work on SNES < 1557100277 791400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the N64 allowed you to add extra RAM in the controller < 1557100302 207613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rendering proportional width text into RAM purely in CPU is quite a feat though < 1557100309 579839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems like an implausible UX decision, so most likely it was a combination of backwards-compatibility decisions < 1557100325 263357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the *controller*? wtf < 1557100346 5131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes; out of all the places to put it, I might not have guessed that one at all < 1557100372 120170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess as to what happened is that they allowed add-ons to be placed in the controller for, e.g., rumble units and tilt sensors < 1557100377 631292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCs had the joystick port on sound cards < 1557100392 850272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when they started making games that needed additional RAM, the controller add-on slot was the most convenient place to put it < 1557100393 448637 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you could have memory cards in there, but wait, was the protocol actually fast enough to use for something other than save games? < 1557100397 657757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but why would they have a controller connector that's fast enough to relay RAM? < 1557100415 122082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tilt sensor or vibrating motor wouldn't need much bandwidth < 1557100415 640155 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the RAM goes in that port on the top of the N64 < 1557100417 119343 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe both? < 1557100421 975137 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh, the N64 Expansion Pak was not a controller addon. < 1557100429 124986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, OK, that makes more sense < 1557100447 118581 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one goes in the console itself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Expansion_Pak_(NUS-007) < 1557100461 598478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way it's a pity I misremembered, because the mismemory was pretty eso < 1557100483 704512 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 used RDRAM, and the Expansion Pak plugged into a custom RDRAM slot on the console. < 1557100495 131896 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some of the things those 8-bit consoles and games do are pretty eso, or seem like that to me anyway < 1557100507 579323 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of crazy to think that thing had only 4MB of RAM out of the box < 1557100508 72628 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it was RDRAM, you had to pull out the RDRAM bus terminator to put it in. < 1557100536 383762 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the deal with RDRAM < 1557100578 869643 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "RDRAM"? < 1557100589 258685 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proprietary high bandwidth but high latency bus that DDR beat out. < 1557100595 790636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1557100651 245066 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now we have like DDR4 or something < 1557100652 76402 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but what specifically makes it different from other DRAM < 1557100655 529203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the latest is < 1557100673 773676 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the N64 had 4 MB of RAM on a 500 MB/s bus < 1557100676 338121 :kmc!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1557100726 842613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice < 1557100740 36440 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course it depends on what the latency is < 1557100744 804649 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how the cpu can use it < 1557100749 66876 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDRAM used a substantially more serial bus, clocked at a higher speed. < 1557100774 515942 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-16-32-159.hlrn.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 had a 9 bit bus to its RAM, clocked at 500 MHz. < 1557100793 710389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-24-100.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, it needs the high speed because the N64 has a pretty powerful graphics chipset