00:03:44 stupid stemmer search, "miserable" is not related to "miser" <-- surely they're from the same latin word, "miser". 00:12:23 b_jonas: i think your stasis cupboard may have the flaw that if it fails you get a nuclear sized explosion 00:12:52 see: various xkcd whatifs 00:13:01 (well #1 iirc) 00:27:56 -!- fmease has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:58 -!- tswett[m] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:28:22 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:30:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 00:35:37 -!- fmease has joined. 00:49:22 -!- tswett[m] has joined. 01:26:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:33:51 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:42:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:52:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:31:41 -!- tromp has joined. 03:35:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:26:21 -!- tromp has joined. 04:30:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:20:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:14:11 -!- tromp has joined. 06:18:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:54:48 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 06:55:10 -!- danieljabailey has quit (K-Lined). 07:00:03 -!- arseniiv has joined. 07:49:25 -!- xkapastel has joined. 07:57:44 -!- tromp has joined. 08:32:50 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:59:27 -!- SoniEx2 has joined. 08:59:27 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:12:20 -!- S_Gautam has joined. 09:13:18 * Taneb hello! 09:31:25 -!- SoniEx2 has changed nick to Soni. 10:21:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:56:02 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 11:32:59 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:36:47 -!- aloril has joined. 11:45:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:11:32 -!- S_Gautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:23:04 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:28:43 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 12:29:31 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:29:50 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 12:41:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:51:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:58:30 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:15:38 david_werecat.slag: points 16.83, score 42.00, rank 3/47 13:26:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:31:51 :O 13:34:32 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 13:34:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:34:32 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 13:50:17 [[User:David.werecat]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60534&oldid=50855 * David.werecat * (+14716) Updated BFJoust competitors 13:51:45 -!- xkapastel has joined. 13:52:54 Idea: BF Joust variant where scores are divided by some function of the program's length 13:56:42 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:01:29 not sure why. in theory, aren't you already at a disadvantage through longer time to cycle throughyour program? 14:08:01 Most large competitors have many branches and thus may not be significantly slower than smaller competitors. 14:19:50 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:55 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 14:26:08 On a completely different note, can I regard Set as the full subcategory of Cat restricted to discrete (small) categories? 14:27:20 -!- tromp has joined. 14:27:45 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Excess Flood). 14:28:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:28:12 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 14:41:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:52:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:58:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:42:54 As a note: the following is a list of BFJoust competitors and their sizes: 15:42:56 Place Name Score Points Size 15:42:56 1 david_werecat.mist 52.05 12.36 67 15:42:56 2 Lymia.nyuroki2 50.56 19.9 9299 15:42:56 3 david_werecat.slag 42 16.83 173 15:42:57 4 quintopia.space_hotel 35.96 12.05 334244 15:42:59 5 ais523.growth2 34.49 11.9 185931 15:43:01 6 ais523.margins3 33.56 6.52 12028 15:43:03 7 david_werecat.MV 32.59 12.14 14135 15:43:05 8 ais523.omnipotence 32.3 11.83 21695 15:43:07 9 david_werecat.jackal2 29.45 9.38 69 15:43:09 10 quintopia.space_elevator 28.03 7.71 19635 15:43:11 11 ais523.preparation 27 7.29 34356 15:43:13 12 david_werecat.antigen 24.53 5.48 205 15:43:15 13 ais523.monolith 23.81 4.33 195 15:43:17 14 Oj742.quicklock 22.44 3.64 14117 15:43:19 15 mroman.cupnoodles 22.4 3.21 92 15:43:21 16 mroman_.cupnoodles 22.4 3.21 92 15:43:23 17 StackOverflow.Sp3000_ParanoidBot 21.02 3.19 18637 15:43:25 18 david_werecat.atom 20.93 0.38 28 15:43:29 19 david_werecat.neutrino 20.19 0 96 15:43:31 20 Lymia.finnel 19.69 -0.17 55 15:43:33 21 david_werecat.xurtle 19.32 -0.24 62 15:43:35 22 ais523.hippo_ballerina 17.82 -2.76 1651 15:43:37 23 ais523.optimism 17.7 -2.26 78 15:43:39 24 ais523.stealth2 17.38 -3.81 954 15:43:41 25 david_werecat.pheonix 17.21 -2.4 115 15:43:43 26 david_werecat.leviathan 17.19 -2.74 146 15:43:45 27 ais523.margins 16.39 -2.4 618 15:43:47 28 david_werecat.dreadnought 15.64 -3.88 5148 15:43:49 29 ais523.slowpoke 15.61 -3.86 7100 15:43:51 30 ais523.anticipation2 15.55 -2.74 188182 15:43:53 31 SuperJedi224.Hyper 15.23 -5.45 100 15:43:55 32 ais523.death_to_defence 15.12 -6.17 827 15:43:59 33 Oj742.smartlock 15.09 -5.86 343489 15:44:01 34 web.TellsToBeat 14.81 -6.6 195 15:44:03 35 david_werecat.behemoth 14.79 -5.88 199 15:44:05 36 mroman_.funky 14.41 -7.02 157 15:44:07 37 Gregor.furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls 14.22 -4.79 114923 15:44:09 38 quintopia.brachiation 13.98 -6.24 342 15:44:11 39 mroman_.athena 13.96 -7.67 61 15:44:13 40 mroman_.snail 13.76 -7.71 54 15:44:15 41 ais523.sometimes 13.69 -6.19 23 15:44:17 42 kerbal.Checkers 13.64 -7 144 15:44:19 43 AndoDaan.BeatYouMate 13.61 -8.38 194 15:44:21 44 mroman_.strapon_fuck_machine 12.99 -8.71 75 15:44:23 45 oerjan.pathetic 11.84 -9.83 18 15:44:24 fuck you 15:44:25 46 oerjan.lame_horse 11.84 -9.83 22 15:44:29 47 web.very_suicidal 11.82 -10.79 30 15:48:35 wtf is that lock loop in mist 15:49:23 I'm surprised that Nyuroki's anti-defense loop doesn't clear it 15:51:12 It was originally (+-++)*-1, but I found (+-++-+++)*-1 later via brute-force 15:51:25 It works unusually well 15:52:04 (not just at locking programs, but at forcing them off the end of the tape) 15:52:45 Nyuroki assumes its anti-defense loop will clear shudder locks. 15:53:30 But I guess that loop specifically avoids it. 15:54:00 I have a billion copies of the anti-defense loop, so. I wonder if I can make it effectively choose randomly 15:54:18 That'd prevent a specifically chosen defense loop from doing this. 15:54:25 Since it'd have to be effective against every defense loop. 15:54:32 anti-defense* 15:56:49 True; at the very least the anti-defense loop could be different for each branch. Given that different tape sizes will typically yield different branches, it could work most of the time. 15:58:30 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:00:02 Actually, maybe not in Nyuroki. It appears that most of the branching is due to the checks on the decoy setup. 16:04:16 (and to break out of clear loops) 16:13:53 Still, I'm surprised that mist made it to first place; it started as a joke. I didn't think that a strategy like that would do well. 16:20:39 As for the random anti-defense, that would be far easier to do in LuaJoust (adjust the seed each cycle and do additional modifications on any conditional operator) 16:26:13 Synchronization seems to have been the key here. 16:26:22 It turns 10% wins into 100% wins. 16:26:43 And given that, you can brute force a defense loop that works very well against the current hill more than likely 16:30:59 Yes. In fact, just that part of the strategy alone made it up to 16th place. I tried more sophisticated synchronization strategies but didn't find one of hand-editable size that worked well. 16:31:48 The other half of the strategy is the weird attack loop (which is tuned against the defense programs on the current hill). 16:32:23 Really, mist only does well because it's optimized against the current "meta". 16:34:29 In fact, running an amalgamation of the current hill, the Codu hill, and the StackOverflow hill yields scores where mist doesn't do nearly as well. 16:35:44 (IIRC, I ran the test on my home computer and don't have the logs with me right now) 16:53:14 -!- kmc has joined. 17:00:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:06:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:20:13 -!- Essadon has joined. 17:34:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:41:30 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:09:42 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:33:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:33:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:00:22 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:09:24 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:41 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:54:54 -!- TheWild has joined. 20:07:36 `? dog 20:07:37 dog? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:26:24 -!- david_werecat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:35:13 -!- dub has joined. 20:36:33 -!- dub has quit (Client Quit). 20:37:59 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:59:17 > (\x. x x) (\x. x x) 20:59:19 :1:4: error: parse error on input ‘.’ 20:59:26 > (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) 20:59:28 error: 20:59:28 • Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t0 ~ t0 -> t 20:59:28 Expected type: t0 -> t 21:01:27 lol 21:01:52 you need to define names to type it, right? 21:04:06 I'm not sure you can 21:10:55 hmm 21:11:14 i know you can circumvent the type problems that break the Y combinator 21:11:45 hi kmc 21:12:30 apparently? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33546004/is-it-possible-to-define-omega-combinator-%CE%BBx-xx-in-modern-haskell 21:13:02 Yes, you can define Y and this thing with negative recursion. 21:13:59 prove it 21:14:15 you prove it 21:14:17 Phantom_Hoover: you can put a data type between it 21:14:26 one with a constructor, not a synonym 21:14:32 The type error tells you what to do. 21:14:38 Cannot construct infinite type t0 ~ t0 -> t 21:14:51 So define a type T0 where T0 ~ T0 -> T 21:16:13 I think I already mentioned the olvashato program http://math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/t2n.olv which does something like this 21:16:34 it's not quite the Y combinator, but it still does recursion without using the built-in named recursion calls, with just lambdas and named types 21:17:31 you could write the Y combinator that way too 21:17:53 you don't really need to, because the language allows you to just call named functions recursively, but still 21:17:56 @let newtype Rec a = Rec { runRec :: Rec a -> a } 21:17:57 .L.hs:166:31: error: 21:17:58 Ambiguous occurrence ‘Rec’ 21:17:58 It could refer to either ‘Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted.Rec’, 21:18:29 what? 21:18:34 @let newtype Curry a = Curry { runCurry :: Curry a -> a } 21:18:35 Defined. 21:19:25 newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a } 21:19:30 :P 21:19:34 @let why :: (a -> a) -> a; why f = (\x -> runCurry x x) (Curry (\x -> f (runCurry x x))) 21:19:36 ghc: panic! (the 'impossible' happened) 21:19:36 (GHC version 8.2.2 for x86_64-unknown-linux): 21:19:36 Simplifier ticks exhausted 21:19:44 int-e: Oh, InR/outR 21:20:14 I have no clue why it's there instead of L.hs though. 21:20:31 historical accident. 21:20:35 Anyway, this is the same deal as Curry's paradox. 21:20:42 "if this sentence is true, then a" 21:21:12 And I see it's still a good way to exhaust ghc's simplifier. I was wondering about that. 21:24:00 uh 21:49:32 do we love Turing tar-pits here, right? 21:49:52 how I'm going to add two numbers on this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_and_Jot 22:01:19 do it in combinatory logic and then replace S, K and I by the corresponding iota terms? 22:04:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:05:55 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic 22:06:09 reading this is as painful as reading arbitrary RFC 22:09:14 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic is perhaps less overwhelming 22:14:40 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic doesn't really talk about numbers or algebraic types IIRC 22:15:46 what's the name for that technique where you translate algebraic data types (like products and distinguished sums) into combinatory logic? 22:15:55 IIRC it was named of someone 22:16:20 TheWild: there's of course always http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ 22:26:02 reading unlambda... I mean, not reading, it's impossible ;) 22:26:46 I didn't get it how functions fighting functions using functions could produce a single bit. 22:29:47 TheWild: well, you eventually need some sort of I/O primitives, either Haskell style or with side effects 22:35:23 and there's tromp's Binary Lambda Calculus (which basically follows the main :: [Char] -> [Char] model) 22:36:45 Hmm https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus gives a glimpse at Church numerals 22:39:10 So basically that's what you do in pure lambda calculus: represent data as special kinds of functions. It takes a while to get used to, but it can be fun. It's not terribly useful though. 22:39:43 I think of it as first representing the data as algebraic data types, untyped, and then encoding that as functions 22:39:44 I wonder whether wikipedia has an articule on Church encodings... 22:39:49 even though that's not, strictly speaking, necessary 22:40:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:41:13 `? articule 22:41:13 articule? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:41:38 I must have been feeling particularly articulate there. 22:48:07 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:48:45 -!- heroux has joined. 22:57:42 what sane language you know? 23:00:49 okay, let it be JavaScript. Did I get iota right? https://kopy.io/DFPdI 23:00:53 -!- moei has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:04:43 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:13:27 -!- TheWild has quit (Quit: TheWild). 23:50:13 -!- Essadon has quit (Quit: Qutting). 23:51:24 web.silly-pi: points -33.19, score 3.14, rank 47/47 23:51:51 Heh.