←2019-03-11 2019-03-12 2019-03-13→ ↑2019 ↑all
00:03:20 <oerjan> OKAY
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00:24:19 <ProofTechnique> fizzie: Consider another viewpoint: if all IO is broken, your code is guaranteed to be pure
00:24:22 <ProofTechnique> hth
00:25:33 <fizzie> tdh but only my feelings.
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00:30:01 <shachaf> whoa
00:30:11 <shachaf> has everyone been making clever help/hurt hth puns for years
00:30:14 <shachaf> that i never got
00:30:15 <shachaf> tdh
00:31:22 <fizzie> No, I meant "help" there.
00:31:40 <fizzie> It was an unintenpun.
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00:57:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EnilKoder * New user account
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01:44:10 <fizzie> @tell zzo38 To answer a question I missed, x86 has always had a fast byte swap for 16-bit values (via `xchg al, ah` and so on), and from 80486 onwards gained a BSWAP instruction to swap the endianness of 32-bit and (on x86-64) 64-bit values.
01:44:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:45:58 <pikhq> And GCC will convert a more naive bit shifting sequence into just using bswap.
01:47:06 <pikhq> Like, uint32_t x = (b[0] << 24) | (b[1] << 16) | (b[2] << 8) | b[3]; becomes a nice and simple fetch and bswap.
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01:47:33 <kmc> oh neat
01:48:31 <fizzie> `` echo 'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 | grep -v \\. | tr '\t' ' ' # just checking
01:48:32 <HackEso> f: \ movl %edi, %eax \ bswap %eax \ ret
01:49:07 <kmc> nice command line
01:49:08 <kmc> A+
01:50:22 <fizzie> I stole the grep -v idiom from ais523's prior art. Although `fgrep -v .` would've been simpler.
01:50:37 <ais523> `` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | expand
01:50:38 <HackEso> f: \ movl %edi, %eax \ bswap %eax \ ret
01:50:47 <ais523> UUOE removed :-)
01:51:01 <ais523> also I wanted to test to see how it looked after running through expand
01:51:55 <ais523> the tr output is probably better
01:52:05 <ais523> better still would be a "condense all whitespace to a single space", though
01:52:17 <ais523> but I'm not sure there's a standard command for that
01:52:39 <ais523> `` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | fmt -999
01:52:40 <HackEso> f: \ movl%edi, %eax bswap %eax ret
01:52:54 <ais523> hmm
01:55:04 <fizzie> If you condense *all* whitespace to single space, it may be hard to separate opcodes and arguments. And if you leave newlines untouched, the \s will look misaligned because there will be (coalesced) whitespace right after a newline, but not before.
01:56:43 <ais523> what about condensing all whitespace to a single whitespace character, \n the whitespace contained vertical whitespace, space if it was entirely horizontal?
01:56:53 <ais523> * \n if
01:57:03 <fizzie> That sounds reasonable, but probably not a standard utility.
01:57:08 <ais523> hmm, this is beginning to sound like a PPCG challenge now
01:57:34 <ais523> `! retina abc
01:57:34 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/retina: No such file or directory
01:57:47 <ais523> bleh, why can't HackEso do its originial job of interpreting esolangs? :-D
01:58:09 <ais523> that said, IIRC the official Retina interpreter is written in C#, so getting it running on HackEso is likely to be difficult
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01:59:46 <ais523> `` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | cat -v
01:59:47 <HackEso> f: \ movl%edi, %eax \ bswap%eax \ ret
02:00:06 <ais523> now I'm confused, what happened to the tabs?
02:00:23 <ais523> `` printf '\t' | cat -v | od -t x1z
02:00:24 <HackEso> 0000000 09 >.< \ 0000001
02:00:34 <ais523> apparently cat -v doesn't make them visible, despite what it's documented to do?
02:00:34 <fizzie> `` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | perl -0 -pe 's|(\s+)|$1=~/\n/?"\n":" "|ge'
02:00:35 <HackEso> ​[01m[K<stdin>:[m[K In function ‘[01m[Kf[m[K’: \ [01m[K<stdin>:1:47:[m[K [01;31m[Kerror: [m[Kexpected ‘[01m[K)[m[K’ before numeric constant
02:00:52 <fizzie> Hm, it worked for me in a terminal.
02:00:55 <ais523> you somehow missed an & sign
02:00:59 <ais523> in the middle of the C code
02:01:04 <fizzie> ...oh.
02:01:10 <fizzie> `` gcc -x c - -o - -S -O3 <<<'unsigned f(unsigned n) { return n >> 24 | (n & 0xff0000) >> 8 | (n & 0xff00) << 8 | n << 24; }' | fgrep -v . | perl -0 -pe 's|(\s+)|$1=~/\n/?"\n":" "|ge'
02:01:11 <HackEso> f: \ movl %edi, %eax \ bswap %eax \ ret
02:01:13 <ais523> that's pretty bizarre as typos go
02:01:25 <fizzie> It's where the line was wrapped, I copy-pasted it as two chunks.
02:04:51 <fizzie> And I'm sure the Perl part has a lot of fluff, but the ()/$1 bit could've been just $&.
02:06:32 <fizzie> `` ls ibin | wc -l
02:06:33 <HackEso> 46
02:06:35 <ais523> I vaguely remember nested regexes not working in old Perl versions, but that's likely been fixed by now
02:06:36 <fizzie> It does have a bunch of them.
02:06:45 <ais523> yes, from something like ten years ago
02:06:55 <ais523> also, don't most of them not work?
02:07:08 <ais523> `! kipple 65>o<66
02:07:08 <fizzie> Some probably don't, some just haven't been tried.
02:07:08 <HackEso> BA
02:07:13 <ais523> OK, that one works
02:07:39 <fizzie> "sh" and "c" are hardly esoteric. Or "bf_txtgen" an interpreter, for that matter.
02:07:46 <ais523> I remember that EgoBot's Underload interpreter wasn't built in, rather it was written in brainfuck
02:07:47 <fizzie> (I'm guessing bf_txtgen is unlikely to work too.)
02:07:54 <ais523> `! bf_txtgen Hello, world!
02:07:55 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/ibin/bf_txtgen: line 6: java: command not found
02:08:05 <ais523> OK, that's a fairly major problem :-D
02:08:22 <ais523> can't run a Java program without a JVM
02:08:27 <ais523> maybe we could write one in Befunge or something
02:08:40 <kmc> compile it with GCJ!
02:08:49 <fizzie> There's no GHC either, so `! haskell won't run. But lambdabot makes it pretty unnecessary.
02:08:55 <ais523> can GCJ compile Java bytecode?
02:09:36 <fizzie> I think it ought to.
02:10:42 <fizzie> The source code seems to be there next to the .class files in interps/bf_txtgen/ anyway.
02:16:34 <kmc> you can decompile .class to .java
02:16:37 <kmc> so it ought to be able to
02:16:40 <kmc> there are probably corner cases, though
02:16:59 * kmc remembers as a wee lad decompiling the Yahoo! Poker applet to successfully figure out how to cheat
02:17:25 <kmc> I had a Perl script that would proxy the game communications and tell me which cards everyone had
02:17:35 <kmc> as well as which cards would be dealt in the future
02:17:40 <kmc> too bad it wasn't real money
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02:18:08 <kmc> this was possible because they didn't send the cards from the server, only a RNG seed, and the data stream had some weak (XOR-level) encryption
02:20:27 <ais523> I remember watching someone try to play Go on Yahoo!
02:20:41 <ais523> it had a rule that if the players didn't agree on the score after two passes, they were forced to play on and weren't allowed to pass
02:21:12 <ais523> so you could win by passing repeatedly, forcing the opponent to play stones on every square of the board, and eventually lose on time
02:21:24 <ais523> (because it wouldn't let them pass nor play a move at that point)
02:21:28 <Cale> I know a 6 dan player who learned all the way up to 2d or something by playing Go on Yahoo, he actually had no idea that it was a game that people played anywhere else.
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02:23:45 <kmc> haha
02:25:18 <Cale> He thought it was just like, invented by Yahoo! or something
02:25:20 <Cale> hahaha
02:25:37 <Cale> until they shut down
02:37:06 <esowiki> [[Increment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60458&oldid=60077 * Camto * (+267) Added partial implementation.
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03:32:31 <kmc> ais523: how can it be that the players don't agree on the score
03:32:38 <kmc> what does that mean
03:32:54 <ais523> kmc: the game asked the players what the score was, if they disagreed, it forced play on
03:33:02 <ais523> under Japanese rules the players have to agree which stones are alive or dead
03:33:12 <ais523> (most computer play nowadays uses a scoring variation where it doesn't matter)
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15:19:01 <imode> what would an automaton look like that could generate a list of all possible combinations of n pairs of parentheses?
15:19:13 <imode> i.e I hand you the number 2, you give me back (()) and ()()
15:19:53 <imode> intuition about matching tells me that you can write an acceptor for dyck words of that sort using a PDA.
15:20:00 <imode> but I've never thought about generating.
15:20:51 <imode> I assume you'd need separate automata depending on the number of pairs you wanted to generate.
15:24:02 <wob_jonas> imode: up the answer for that in TAOCP chapter 7.2.1.6
15:24:35 <imode> is the solution actually an automaton or some pseudocode.
15:29:03 <imode> okay... that wasn't what I was looking for, but thanks for the pointer.
15:33:34 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60459&oldid=60358 * EnilKoder * (+638) /* Introductions */
15:33:44 <esowiki> [[EnilKode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60460 * EnilKoder * (+5068) Created page with "==enilKode== enilKode is the first programming language created by enilKoder, which is where he got his username for Esolang. The name enilKode comes from his username on [htt..."
15:42:29 <esowiki> [[Mao]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60461 * EnilKoder * (+550) No information for this programming language is available; learn about robots.txt
15:45:51 <esowiki> [[TroJavaScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60462 * EnilKoder * (+216) This is just JavaScript, right? That's not what I wanted my program to do!
15:47:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Caotic * New user account
16:04:40 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60463&oldid=60237 * EnilKoder * (+95) /* General languages */
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17:11:02 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60464&oldid=60459 * Caotic * (+198)
17:11:36 <esowiki> [[User:Caotic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60465 * Caotic * (+118) Created page with "Hello! I like how esolang can be a unique tool for learning minimal calculus, so I am here to help more the community."
17:11:58 <esowiki> [[Grr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60466 * Caotic * (+3723) Created page with "Grr is a pure textual programming language that composes rules and functions inspired in macro and high-order programming. Exist two ways of define rules in Grr, first using a..."
17:13:49 <esowiki> [[Grr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60467&oldid=60466 * Caotic * (+108)
17:15:27 <esowiki> [[Grr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60468&oldid=60467 * Caotic * (+0)
17:18:26 <esowiki> [[ASCII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60469 * Camto * (+124) Page creation.
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17:20:42 <esowiki> [[Bootstrap]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60470 * Camto * (+234) Page creation.
17:23:40 <esowiki> [[Call stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60471&oldid=51804 * Camto * (-31) Broken link.
17:24:55 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60472&oldid=60442 * Caotic * (+10)
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17:25:58 <esowiki> [[90]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60473&oldid=44763 * Camto * (-6) Broken link.
17:26:49 <esowiki> [[The Inevitable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60474&oldid=46316 * Camto * (+19) Broken link.
17:31:14 <esowiki> [[Grr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60475&oldid=60468 * Caotic * (+6)
17:31:54 <esowiki> [[Grr]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60476&oldid=60475 * Caotic * (+0)
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18:47:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Asty * New user account
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18:56:45 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60477&oldid=60464 * Sentry * (+176) add my introduction
18:57:02 <esowiki> [[Ly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60478&oldid=58552 * Sentry * (+96) Add new interpreter to list
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20:25:54 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> apparently cat -v doesn't make them visible, despite what it's documented to do? <-- the man page here says it excludes tabs, you need -T for that.
20:25:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:26:27 <oerjan> @tell ais523 or just -t
20:26:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:26:36 <shachaf> is that why it's considered harmful
20:26:47 <oerjan> what is
20:27:17 <oerjan> . o O ( i didn't mention goto anywhere... )
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20:28:16 <b_jonas> or cat -A
20:28:21 <int-e> oerjan: do you occasionally comment on yafgc?
20:30:32 <oerjan> int-e: yes
20:31:16 <oerjan> yesterday i couldn't get comments to load, though.
20:31:52 <oerjan> iirc it was an occasional problem some days before too
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20:32:46 <oerjan> or rather, comments for the last page, the previous loaded fine.
20:33:04 <oerjan> (but i loaded that first and then went to read something else, so...)
20:33:48 <oerjan> so i still have the tabs open.
20:37:07 <oerjan> int-e: do you? not by that nick, at least.
20:37:34 * oerjan guesses you're not Guesticus.
20:38:33 <oerjan> i would _not_ bet on Guesticus not being A, though.
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20:44:08 <int-e> oerjan: no I don't. I just read a few and stumbled over a certain nick.
20:45:03 <int-e> (sorry if that's disappointing)
20:52:30 <oerjan> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnot really
20:58:41 <kmc> "VAROITUS: Tamä tuote sisältää ja sitä poltettaessa siltä erityy kemikaaleja, joiden on Kalifornian osavaltiossa todettu aiheuttavan syöpää ja sikiön epämuodostumia tai muita lisääntymiskykyyn littyviä vaurioita." — a camp stove fuel canister I own
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21:25:34 <tswett[m]> Whoa, I've got a fancy [m] at the end of my nick! I think.
21:25:48 <tswett[m]> I figure I probably do. That seems pretty likely.
21:26:49 <int-e> the [m]atrix has got you
21:27:09 <int-e> tswett[m]: if that was a question, yes, you do
21:28:00 <b_jonas> tswett: you can use a bot to find what your nick is. eg. try /msg perlbot &n
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21:29:36 <b_jonas> or to find if you have a [m] at the end of your nick,
21:29:45 <b_jonas> /msg perlbot compose `eval `arg d&n'=~/[\[{][mM][\]}]$/ ? "yes" : "no"'
21:29:55 <b_jonas> though that doesn't try to determine if it's a fancy one or not
21:30:32 <b_jonas> hmm wait
21:30:35 <int-e> they could also check the channel logs
21:30:37 * int-e shrugs
21:30:42 <int-e> but where's the fun in that?
21:31:09 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60479&oldid=60412 * Cortex * (-122) Removed ~ and @, we already have those instructions
21:31:41 <int-e> But more importantly, the real quote is just "the matrix has you".
21:32:55 <b_jonas> there's also /msg perlbot 8ball do I have a fancy [m] at the end of my nick?
21:32:58 <b_jonas> but it's less reliable
21:37:04 <int-e> fungot: hi!
21:37:05 <fungot> int-e: so of course it's ambiguous if you don't, it will handle an empty array the same way
21:37:25 <b_jonas> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
21:37:46 <b_jonas> don't even remind me of matlab's truthyness rule, my hon. and learned friend fungot
21:37:47 <fungot> b_jonas: nooooo, don't ask why), microsoft products have assimilated quite well, thanks. i don't
21:39:18 <int-e> (if you're looking for a bot that will parrot your nick...)
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21:39:52 <int-e> @metar lowi
21:39:54 <lambdabot> LOWI 122120Z 28010KT 9999 FEW090 BKN120 02/M03 Q1015 NOSIG
21:44:50 <int-e> '"
21:44:55 <int-e> `"
21:44:56 <HackEso> 417) <itidus20> It's ok guys. I am doing what I can to keep my psyche and ego surviving. All the while the threat of ww3 looms, the mortality of family and friends(loved ones?) and sooner or llater my own mortality. \ 1217) <Taneb> ...my university's Scandinavian Society is having a trip to IKEA
21:45:49 <kmc> Fear and Loathing at IKEA
21:59:33 <Phantom_Hoover> oh man
21:59:37 <Phantom_Hoover> i miss itidus
21:59:43 <Phantom_Hoover> what a nutter
21:59:53 <Phantom_Hoover> i hope he's doing well
21:59:58 <kmc> yeah
21:59:58 <Phantom_Hoover> still making his instant coffee
22:00:32 <kmc> I am feeling pretty shit today :(
22:00:38 <kmc> day started good and got bad
22:00:42 <kmc> that's kind of the opposite of usual
22:01:25 <kmc> I don't think I'm ever going to get over the things that upset me :(
22:01:31 <kmc> I'm not going to last much longer if I don't :(
22:01:51 <Phantom_Hoover> is this, like, your general dissatisfaction with the rest of the human race or something else
22:02:00 <kmc> no
22:02:32 <Phantom_Hoover> is it... bay area property disputes or something
22:02:35 <kmc> the stuff with rust-lang and all my trauma from living with gender dysphoria
22:03:42 <kmc> sorry, this probably isn't the place to talk about it
22:03:48 <kmc> the mention of nutters made me bring it up :P
22:03:55 <Phantom_Hoover> what's wrong with rust-lang other than the sjw shitheads setting themselves up as moral arbiters
22:04:00 <kmc> that
22:04:05 <kmc> more or less
22:04:19 <kmc> and the general niceness policing
22:04:42 <kmc> hypocrisy
22:04:43 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
22:05:03 <kmc> the first CoC dispute I got into was not SJW related, it was the fact that they failed to get rid of a particular abrasive community member for at least 3 years
22:05:06 <kmc> because "he writes good code"
22:05:14 <kmc> they all acknowledge he was a problem
22:05:21 <kmc> it's the exact opposite of what the CoC was supposed to mean
22:05:24 <kmc> they were hypocrites from day one
22:05:33 <kmc> it really hurts that I used to believe them and believe in all that crap
22:05:41 <kmc> and now it's taken over open source and I don't feel safe anywhee
22:05:44 <kmc> anywhere*
22:05:57 <Phantom_Hoover> to me that's like... ok at least i can understand it as a pragmatic compromise
22:06:31 <kmc> yeah but the whole community just pats each other on the back over how ~friendly and welcoming~ they are
22:06:35 <kmc> while ignoring everyone who disagrees
22:06:36 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
22:07:14 <Phantom_Hoover> the sjw shit disturbs me on a deeper level because ashley williams or whoever she was does not actually say 'kill all men' out of a deep personality dysfunction
22:07:35 <Phantom_Hoover> she says it because there's a whole fucking culture now that covers for and endorses that sort of behaviour
22:07:43 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:07:50 <kmc> I partly agree with that
22:08:03 <kmc> I think people say awful things to get applause on Twitter without thinking about how it might affect others
22:08:06 <Phantom_Hoover> it just seems like manifestations of a cult that glorifies abuse and suffering
22:08:13 <kmc> definitely
22:08:19 <kmc> but also, I would not at all be surprised if she has some gender related trauma in her past
22:08:29 <kmc> a lot of people do
22:08:33 <kmc> and people tend to pay their trauma forward
22:08:36 <kmc> I do it too :(
22:10:42 <Phantom_Hoover> mm
22:11:17 <kmc> I'm doing therapy and lots of other things but i'm not sure it will help fast enough :(
22:12:45 <kmc> it's really exhausting waking up every goddamn day and being upset about the same thing
22:13:07 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: I'm sorry again for supporting those people long ago :(
22:13:13 <kmc> I got disillusioned pretty quick
22:13:19 <kmc> my interpretation of a lot of events has changed
22:15:06 <kmc> I think Ashley also gets special treatment because she's fucking Steve Klabnik
22:15:18 <kmc> this may explain why she gets to be in charge to begin with, seeing as she appears to have no useful skills
22:15:41 <Phantom_Hoover> ahahahahahaha
22:16:18 <kmc> I do think the npm sjw's have chilled out though, whether it's because they realized they hurt people or just that it's bad for their careers, i don't know
22:16:36 <Phantom_Hoover> did you read jon ronson's book on public shaming
22:16:50 <kmc> i would hope that being the subject of investigations from all of npm, linux, and rust may have given her pause
22:17:02 <Phantom_Hoover> it has a chapter on donglegate
22:18:11 <kmc> i did not read it
22:18:29 <kmc> I do feel bad for encouraging public shaming against her
22:18:30 <Phantom_Hoover> it's really interesting because the two dudes who lost their jobs for making dumb dick jokes behind an inquisitor were really humble and apologetic about the whole thing, and they'd also got decent jobs right afterwards
22:18:35 <kmc> i feel like something of a hypocrite
22:18:45 <kmc> on the other hand, live by the sword die by the sword
22:18:51 <kmc> plus I complained through the Proper Channels first
22:18:56 <kmc> and was dismissed
22:19:34 <Phantom_Hoover> the inquisitor herself also lost her job and when interviewed was completely unrepentant, all 'i was martyred for standing up for women. this is what they do. my life is ruined. my every day is suffering. i still don't have a job. i blame the trauma'
22:19:54 <kmc> yeah
22:20:00 <kmc> they cry misogyny whenever challenged
22:20:06 <Phantom_Hoover> and, like, i actually have principles and i don't think anyone deserves to lose their job because of an internet hate mob
22:20:16 <kmc> I don't even want ashley to lose her job, I would like an apology though
22:20:19 <kmc> but it's far too late for that
22:20:19 <Phantom_Hoover> but i think i smirked a bit after that chapter
22:20:22 <kmc> after the way I've acted
22:20:24 <kmc> yeah
22:20:31 <kmc> I think her clique also lost a lot of status after the ayo.js debacle, which was beyond embarrassing
22:20:41 <kmc> people have seen that they are a drain on the project
22:20:52 <kmc> and I think that's why she's bouncing around to different communities
22:21:05 -!- moei has joined.
22:21:18 <kmc> I just need to figure out what my unfinished business is, so I can move on and forget all of this
22:21:34 <Phantom_Hoover> well i think the 4channy dipshits who afaik actually do love slinging death and rape threats and doxx at any woman they can pick out make it easy to honestly think it's Them Vs The Misogynists
22:23:39 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah i mean this stuff bothers me but it seems to weigh on you a lot more
22:24:41 <kmc> yeah
22:24:51 <kmc> I think it bothers me more than anyone else I know :(
22:24:58 <kmc> although there are a few people who are close
22:25:14 <kmc> and they happen to be non-cisgender AMABs as well
22:25:28 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:25:34 <Phantom_Hoover> ....All Mods Are Bastards?
22:26:52 <kmc> lol
22:26:55 <kmc> assigned male at birth
22:26:58 <kmc> but I like yours too
22:29:05 <kmc> I'd feel a lot better if I could work on some other OSS thing or something else in life that is productive
22:29:16 <kmc> I'm kind of drifting right now
22:29:51 <kmc> most things in my life are great, I'm not really depressed, I get upset about specific things though
22:30:00 <kmc> and I feel like I'm not contributing much to society
22:30:00 <rain1> I've been thinking all my open source stuff is pointless because nobody cares about it
22:30:11 <kmc> I worked on things people actually do care about
22:30:15 <kmc> and now I don't see that happening ever again :(
22:30:29 <rain1> how come?
22:31:00 <kmc> rain1: combination of bad feelings about the code of conduct stuff and general burnout
22:31:05 <kmc> maybe I can at least start blogging again
22:31:43 <rain1> yeah it's frustrating how coc's shelter abusive people
22:32:27 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:32:59 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:33:32 <kmc> i wish i could just stop thinking about it
22:34:00 <rain1> is there a specific one ? something happened recently?
22:34:04 <kmc> no
22:34:15 <kmc> yes specific, no not recently
22:34:24 <rain1> ah
22:34:51 <kmc> I was talking about it just now and I don't feel like going over it again because, as noted, I should think about it less
22:35:55 <kmc> i'm just feeling really down today
22:36:00 <kmc> and talking about it often helps
22:51:03 <kmc> I just really don't know how to make progress :(
22:52:10 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:52:15 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
22:53:59 <b_jonas> sadly, telling your nick is one of those tricks that I believe we can't teach to hackeso
22:54:03 <b_jonas> unless that's changed recently
22:59:09 <b_jonas> hackeso's software could easily stuff some of the IRC state to the environment or something, but no, it doesn't bother
22:59:24 <b_jonas> it definitely knows about IRC state because it puts it to the hg commit message
22:59:30 <b_jonas> well, some of it
23:00:02 <shachaf> But you can make `list
23:00:44 <b_jonas> yeah
23:01:30 <b_jonas> of course, I can't complain. I don't want to run one of these bots either.
23:01:43 <oerjan> b_jonas: fizzie is considering adding the feature.
23:03:36 <kmc> so you want like `echo $NICK to work?
23:05:01 <b_jonas> kmc: something like that, though probably with some better names, so there's a shared prefix for all the IRC-related context
23:05:16 <fizzie> I was in fact going to use $NICK.
23:05:24 <fizzie> It's not like this is serious business.
23:06:03 <fizzie> Previously, when we had logs access, there was the workaround of looking at the last few lines for the trigger. But that's not available in the current setup, and anyway it was racy.
23:06:13 <shachaf> `learn #esoteric is serious business.
23:08:40 <fizzie> The umlbox init has a way of setting environment variables, though the Python script part never puts that in the config file. So it needs a tiny umlbox patch to add a --env flag or something, and then another hackbot patch to use that to set the nick (and maybe some other state).
23:08:57 <b_jonas> fizzie: a common prefix would make all the hackeso-related environment variables more discoverable by users
23:09:22 <b_jonas> since they could do, like, ``` echo "${!HACKESO_*}" to find them
23:09:47 <kmc> what kind of shell wizardry is that
23:10:02 <shachaf> too advanced for me
23:10:26 <shachaf> env|grep
23:10:44 <b_jonas> kmc: meh, `perl -efor (keys%ENV) { /^HACKESO_/ and print } # if you prefer
23:10:58 <shachaf> i do not prefer
23:11:00 <b_jonas> um, that needs separators
23:11:09 <b_jonas> so like `perl -efor (keys%ENV) { /^HACKESO_/ and print "$_ " }
23:11:20 <b_jonas> ``` echo "${!BASH*}"
23:11:21 <HackEso> BASH BASHOPTS BASHPID BASH_ALIASES BASH_ARGC BASH_ARGV BASH_CMDS BASH_COMMAND BASH_EXECUTION_STRING BASH_LINENO BASH_SOURCE BASH_SUBSHELL BASH_VERSINFO BASH_VERSION
23:11:37 <b_jonas> ``` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
23:11:38 <HackEso> No output.
23:11:46 <kmc> I miss knowing weird perl things
23:11:54 <b_jonas> `` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
23:11:55 <HackEso> No output.
23:11:57 <b_jonas> what?
23:12:05 <b_jonas> ``` locale
23:12:07 <HackEso> LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL=
23:12:10 <b_jonas> hmm
23:12:21 <b_jonas> I thought we still had some locale-related stuff set
23:12:23 <b_jonas> `` locale
23:12:24 <HackEso> LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ALL=
23:12:30 <b_jonas> hmm
23:12:42 <b_jonas> ` echo "${!LC*}"
23:12:43 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
23:12:45 <b_jonas> `` echo "${!LC*}"
23:12:46 <HackEso> No output.
23:13:07 <b_jonas> `` echo "${!LA*}"
23:13:08 <HackEso> LANG
23:13:12 <b_jonas> `` echo "${!L[ACO]*}"
23:13:12 <HackEso> No output.
23:13:16 <b_jonas> what?
23:13:41 <fizzie> `env
23:13:42 <HackEso> HACKENV=/hackenv \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ PWD=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ TERM=linux \ SHLVL=0 \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
23:14:05 <b_jonas> that's a bit too long to print in full
23:14:14 <b_jonas> ``` echo "${!*}"
23:14:14 <HackEso> No output.
23:14:18 <b_jonas> what
23:14:22 <b_jonas> I don't get how this works
23:15:38 <b_jonas> ``` echo "${!L@}"
23:15:39 <HackEso> LANG LINENO
23:15:41 <b_jonas> ``` echo "${!@}"
23:15:42 <HackEso> No output.
23:15:48 <b_jonas> I see
23:15:52 <b_jonas> it's all in the BASH manual
23:16:09 <fizzie> Right, we already set a handful of environment variables. Looks like that doesn't actually go through umlbox init, but we instead just prefix an 'env' to the command.
23:16:14 <b_jonas> `perl -e for (sort keys%ENV) { print "$_ " }
23:16:15 <HackEso> HACKENV HOME LANG PATH PWD SHLVL TERM http_proxy
23:16:20 <b_jonas> hmm, it's not that long
23:16:27 <b_jonas> ``` perl -e 'for (sort keys%ENV) { print "$_ " }'
23:16:27 <HackEso> HACKENV HOME LANG PATH PWD SHLVL TERM _ http_proxy
23:16:48 <fizzie> The `env output was complete, if that's what the "bit too long" comment was referring to.
23:16:53 <shachaf> `` grep -ri hackego bin
23:16:55 <HackEso> bin/echo:echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
23:17:12 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, sorry
23:17:16 <b_jonas> I expected it to be longer
23:17:25 <shachaf> `dobg echo
23:17:27 <HackEso> 3764:2013-09-13 <Rouj̈o> rm bin/echo \ 3763:2013-09-13 <Rouj̈o> chmod +x bin/echo \ 3762:2013-09-13 <Rouj̈o> echo echo No output. > bin/echo \ 3557:2013-08-29 <noood̈l> revert f6f3d9626c03 \ 3530:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> chmod +x /hackenv/bin/echo \ 3529:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> echo echo Cats are cool but should be made illegal. > /hackenv/bin/echo
23:17:56 <shachaf> How is rm the last commit?
23:18:00 <shachaf> Is this a bad scowrev?
23:18:25 <shachaf> `hurl bin/echo
23:18:26 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/echo
23:18:38 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, bin/echo just doesn't exist I think. not that it matters, I invoke the shell builtin. you could override it from "bin/``"
23:18:41 <shachaf> I am confusil.
23:18:54 <b_jonas> ``` du bin/echo
23:18:54 <HackEso> du: cannot access 'bin/echo': No such file or directory
23:19:00 <shachaf> Wait, how did grep find it?
23:19:02 <b_jonas> ``` du bin/ping
23:19:03 <HackEso> 4bin/ping
23:19:18 <shachaf> `` grep -ri hackego bin
23:19:20 <HackEso> bin/echo:echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
23:19:23 <shachaf> `` grep -i hackego bin/echo
23:19:24 <HackEso> grep: bin/echo: No such file or directory
23:19:48 <b_jonas> ``` grep -l HACKEGO bin | cat -A
23:19:48 <HackEso> grep: bin: Is a directory
23:19:53 <b_jonas> ``` grep -Rl HACKEGO bin | cat -A
23:19:54 <HackEso> bin/^B^Becho$
23:19:59 <shachaf> aha
23:20:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:20:37 <shachaf> `` dobg echo
23:20:39 <HackEso> 3800:2013-09-18 <Rouj̈o> chmod +x bin/\x02\x02echo \ 3799:2013-09-18 <Rouj̈o> echo "echo I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!" > bin/\x02\x02echo
23:20:52 <fizzie> PATH, TERM and HOME are set by umlbox. Our 'sandbox' script resets path (actually, to a rather wrong value) and adds HACKENV and http_proxy. PWD and SHLVL and _ are presumably from the shell. I can't remember where LANG is getting set.
23:20:55 <shachaf> `echo echo
23:20:55 <HackEso> I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE!
23:21:05 <shachaf> `rm bin/echo
23:21:07 <HackEso> No output.
23:21:10 <b_jonas> ``` echo "$PATH"
23:21:10 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
23:21:10 <kmc> hack the ego, patch the soul
23:21:15 <shachaf> `` ls bin/**
23:21:16 <HackEso> bin/welcome
23:21:17 <shachaf> `` ls bin/**
23:21:18 <HackEso> bin/ \ bin/welcome \ bin/8ball
23:21:24 <b_jonas> what would the right value be?
23:22:07 <fizzie> The rigth value wouldn't include /opt/ghc/bin or /opt/python27/bin because there are nothing at those paths.
23:22:23 <fizzie> So I guess /hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin minimally.
23:22:29 <b_jonas> `` printf "%b" bin/*$'\x02'*
23:22:29 <HackEso> bin/welcome
23:22:37 <b_jonas> `` printf "%q" bin/*$'\x02'*
23:22:38 <HackEso> ​$'bin/\002welcome'
23:24:26 <fizzie> Now I don't know if I should reuse the existing env command from the 'sandbox' wrapper, or finish adding the umlbox feature to set variables via init.
23:26:14 <b_jonas> ``` $'\x0F'
23:26:15 <HackEso> 229) <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing.
23:26:40 <b_jonas> ``` cat bin/$'\x0F'
23:26:41 <HackEso> ​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${1-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnoooooooodl
23:27:17 <shachaf> `` ls -l bin/$'\x0F'
23:27:18 <HackEso> lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 1 Jul 8 2017 bin/ -> `
23:27:22 <shachaf> whoa
23:27:22 <shachaf> ``
23:27:23 <HackEso> 1240) <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more?
23:27:52 <b_jonas> ``` cat bin/$'\x16'
23:27:52 <HackEso> No output.
23:28:01 <b_jonas> ``` echo bin/$'\x16'*
23:28:03 <HackEso> bin/ bin/ bin/echo
23:28:11 <b_jonas> anyway, there's three of those
23:28:35 <shachaf> `cat bin/
23:28:35 <HackEso> No output.
23:28:36 <b_jonas> `perl -we opendir $d,"bin" or die; for (sort readdir$d) { if (!/\A[!-~]+\z/) { $o=$_=~s/[^ -z]/sprintf"{%02X}",ord$&/ger; print "$o "; } }
23:28:36 <HackEso> ​{02}welcome {03}04w{03}08e{03}09l{03}11c{03}12o{03}13m{03}04e{0F} {0F} {16} {16}{16}{16} {16}{16}echo 8{0F}ball `{CC}{80} d{C3}{B6}ts qu{C3}{B8}rjan r{C3}{A8}sum{C3}{A8} v{C3}{A4}lkommen wisd{C3}{B6}m {C2}{BF} {C3}{BC}ml{C3}{A4}{C3}{BC}t {CE}{BF}{CF}{85}{CE}{B5}{CE}{BB}{CE}{BA}{CE}{BF}{CE}{BC}{CE}{B5} {D0}{B4}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B1}{D1}{80}{D0}{BE}-{D0}{BF}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B6}{D0}{B0}{D0}{BB}{D0}{BE}{D0}{B2}{D0}{B0}{D1}{82}{D1}{8C} {D8}{9F} {E2}{81}{97}
23:30:07 <b_jonas> `perl -we use Encode; opendir $d,"bin" or die; for (sort readdir$d) { if (!/\A[!-~]+\z/) { $o=decode_utf8($_)=~s/[^ -z]/sprintf"{%02X}",ord$&/ger; print "$o "; } } print "~"
23:30:09 <HackEso> ​{02}welcome {03}04w{03}08e{03}09l{03}11c{03}12o{03}13m{03}04e{0F} {0F} {16} {16}{16}{16} {16}{16}echo 8{0F}ball `{300} d{F6}ts qu{F8}rjan r{E8}sum{E8} v{E4}lkommen wisd{F6}m {BF} {FC}ml{E4}{FC}t {3BF}{3C5}{3B5}{3BB}{3BA}{3BF}{3BC}{3B5} {434}{43E}{431}{440}{43E}-{43F}{43E}{436}{430}{43B}{43E}{432}{430}{442}{44C} {61F} {2057} ~
23:30:48 <b_jonas> ``` cat $'`\xCC\x80'
23:30:48 <HackEso> cat: '`'$'\314\200': No such file or directory
23:30:52 <b_jonas> ``` cat bin/$'`\xCC\x80'
23:30:53 <HackEso> echo "This should probably do something, but it does not."
23:31:19 <shachaf> cc 80?
23:31:22 <shachaf> shouldn't that be cd 80?
23:31:31 <b_jonas> `¿
23:31:32 <HackEso> ​¯/)o_​°(\¯ ?
23:33:02 <b_jonas> `¿ C
23:33:03 <HackEso> tluaf noitatnemgeS��.�דIW>�V��fo egaugnal eht si C
23:33:17 <b_jonas> `¿ rules of wisdom
23:33:18 <HackEso> ​ noitautcnup dna noitazilatipac reporp esu dna ,taht erofeb ecaps on htiw enilwen a ni dne dna decaps elgnis eb ,yek pukool eht tuohtiw elbadnatsrednu eb :dluohs yeht ,romuh s‘yrtne eht rof laitnesse sselnu
23:34:03 <shachaf> laitnesse
23:34:16 <shachaf> `? rules of wisdom
23:34:17 <HackEso> unless essential for the entry‘s humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
23:35:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:35:08 -!- xkapastel has joined.
23:35:53 <b_jonas> ``` cat $'bin/\x61F'
23:35:53 <HackEso> cat: bin/aF: No such file or directory
23:36:00 <b_jonas> ``` cat $'bin/\xD8\x9F'
23:36:00 <HackEso> ​\? "$@" | rev
23:39:46 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
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←2019-03-11 2019-03-12 2019-03-13→ ↑2019 ↑all