< 1547337761 966190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1547337799 364540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh stupid putty < 1547337817 158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Client Quit < 1547337875 986835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1547337905 138000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why did i quit irssi instead of disconnecting from tmux, stupid brain) < 1547337937 18186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this looks netsplitty < 1547337974 189211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just a display error < 1547337987 967854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course < 1547338063 809674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'd reattached tmux with a different terminal size, so it got confused until i actually resized the window) < 1547338069 36106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1547338077 734224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still confused, gah! < 1547338092 804039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Client Quit < 1547338145 967840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1547338151 882455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now then < 1547338154 839935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1547338170 647844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was necessary to quit tmux altogether < 1547338281 399946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dear old hagbart got fried after a scheduled outage, so i've had to change to a different host, but putty makes it awkward by not showing it in the session menu) < 1547338359 764027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also by seemingly having no way to edit the host or remote command of an already set up session) < 1547338526 60497 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547338616 880012 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lyhhniogktrcrnvz JOIN :#esoteric < 1547338800 784793 :Essadon!~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com QUIT :Quit: Qutting < 1547338820 241849 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sduwvdiefaeuoffc JOIN :#esoteric < 1547340316 121351 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547340795 320519 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`for i in {1..4};do echo $((($i*$i)));done < 1547340795 922906 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: for: not found < 1547341164 192246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need two `s and a space for that. < 1547341180 980233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` for i in {1..4};do echo $((($i*$i)));done < 1547341181 704627 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 4 \ 9 \ 16 < 1547341237 683048 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know that is there! < 1547342240 826582 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.2 < 1547342343 128926 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547342503 121358 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547342529 934272 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname | sed 's/x/ls/;s/u/do/;s/[Ll]/w/g' < 1547342530 719919 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows > 1547342626 167404 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59079&oldid=59069 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+34) 10/* A */ > 1547343469 667714 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59080&oldid=58089 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+259) 10 > 1547343526 491758 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Salpynx14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59081&oldid=59080 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+138) 10 < 1547343593 163093 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dd if=/dev/urandom bs=100 count=1 | grep -aoE '\w' | head -n5 < 1547343593 950192 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+0 records in \ 1+0 records out \ 100 bytes copied, 0.000792064 s, 126 kB/s \ 5 \ p \ r \ D \ T < 1547343632 255081 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll stop before I break something... < 1547344031 143505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is harder to break than you think < 1547344041 399213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way cannot just be `reverted, that is > 1547344103 423934 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59082&oldid=58862 5* 03Cortex 5* (+556) 10/* Joke/Silly Ideas */ < 1547344281 667745 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1547344384 957581 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it filter commands, or is it just running whatever it gets in a shell? It feels like I could write or read from the file system, or extract more info from the system than should be public < 1547344404 792459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few layers of sandboxing. < 1547344416 443656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command runs in a one-off UML instance, for one thing. < 1547344433 972807 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find any docs for Multibot / HackEso, to learn how to use it for other languages < 1547344490 215780 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname -a| sed 's/x/ls/;s/u/do/;s/[Ll]/w/g' < 1547344491 21592 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/winux < 1547344498 28707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the only filesystem bound read-write in that umlbox is the working copy of the Mercurial repo, for reverting changes.) < 1547344550 948857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean documentation on what's installed there, yeah, that's pretty sparse. < 1547344672 150566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it's a living system, so it keeps changing. < 1547344757 121783 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547344783 494770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a sort-of copy of the old EgoBot with its esolang interpreters, available via the bin/! wrapper, but I'm not sure they all really work right. < 1547344786 498049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! befunge "olleh">:#,_@ < 1547344787 191075 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1547344793 157585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess some of them at least do. < 1547344818 947521 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls ibin < 1547344820 221717 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l \ 2l \ adjust \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ help \ java \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ lua \ malbolge \ pbrain \ perl \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ slashes \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda \ whirl > 1547344937 538361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59083&oldid=59070 5* 03Cortex 5* (+196) 10 < 1547344984 121593 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547345000 951883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I wrote a bunch of stuff without noticing you were out. < 1547345021 548992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's at http://esolangs.org/logs/2019-01-13.html#lY < 1547345050 280938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can browse the filesystem (except for the ephemeral tmp/ subdirectory) at https://hack.esolangs.org/repo and the "wisdom" database -- `? foo -- has *some* documentation, though a lot of those entries are not particularly useful. < 1547345058 312730 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it in the logs, my connection seems flakey today < 1547345073 801720 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cmd="true $(xxd -b -g0 <<< "Hello, World!"|sed 's/^.*: \([^ ]*\).*$/\1/'|tr -d '\n'|sed 's/^0//;s/0\|\(1\)/| true \1/g;s/1/<:/g')";result=$(eval "($cmd; echo "\${PIPESTATUS[@]}")2>/dev/null");echo $result | perl -lpe 's/[^10]//g,$_=pack"B*",$_' < 1547345074 783545 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 5: xxd: command not found \ . < 1547345439 152928 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks > 1547345480 998662 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59084&oldid=59075 5* 03Cortex 5* (+92) 10 < 1547345967 466071 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! help < 1547345968 149798 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list. < 1547346883 845667 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu 5 < 1547346884 524777 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1547346906 927071 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge 'uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu' < 1547346907 670678 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1547346972 935666 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed > 1547347062 763843 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Cactusi14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59085 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+1712) 10Created page with "[[Cactusi]] is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User: Areallycoolusername|Areallycoolusername]]. Instead of code being made of text or numbers, you code in th..." > 1547347270 980633 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59086&oldid=59007 5* 03Areallycoolusername 5* (+30) 10/* General languages */ < 1547347716 634956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( that name is just to annoy my grammarian heart, right? ) < 1547347969 671908 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ginrgjknvnzudsal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1547348335 533118 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-svukahbajediqbvp JOIN :#esoteric < 1547348600 121932 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547349016 906130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/4Rs+0No-&Jk)"Fh}|Bcy?`=*z]Kw%oG4UUS0/@-ejc(:'8dc < 1547349017 548417 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1547349025 975965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it was just the program < 1547349219 273535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vertical bar( ) 0 < 1547349711 722460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm leaving in approx. half an hour, traveling... can't be bothered to fix underspecified esolangs. < 1547349736 706280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially when they are basically yet another text encoding) < 1547349802 546730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how original the dancing men cipher was in its days ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_the_Dancing_Men ) < 1547349848 752141 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a Unicode proposal for that one. < 1547350292 601900 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lyhhniogktrcrnvz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1547350964 122618 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547351047 127583 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547351292 754160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's mezzacotta made me chuckle for once < 1547351873 980043 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547352137 111829 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547352807 499990 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've being playing with HackEso's Malbolge interpeter in direct msg < 1547352816 490810 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547352817 154616 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1547352819 917323 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails < 1547352833 324766 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ./interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin <(echo 'uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu') <<< 5 < 1547352834 73520 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :55555 < 1547352843 835590 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works, so I think it's a quoting issue < 1547352862 788251 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. escaping rather < 1547352918 150758 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` inp=A;for i in {1..7};do echo $inp;inp=$(./interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin <(echo "'"'tB_:^"J[l4{8DCBvQ21ap(^nI[)"hD}fA@yQ``^)([[6XGmE~Co{gyOdvh(f%dFE"DBk|{[xw;vVsN7Rpo\m10|hgg*ecDC<_') <<<$inp);done < 1547352919 28549 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1547353201 190840 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547353427 128254 :salpynx_!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547353618 551626 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` inp=A;for i in {1..7};do echo $inp;inp=$(./interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin <(echo "'"'tB_:^"J[l4{8DCBvQ21ap(^nI[)"hD}fA@yQ``^)([[6XGmE~Co{gyOdvh(f%dFE"DBk|{[xw;vVsN7Rpo\m10|hgg*ecDC<_') <<<$inp);done < 1547353619 292934 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1547353644 229650 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives output in direct msg with HackEso < 1547354348 786332 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` inp=A;for i in {1..7};do echo $inp;inp=$(./interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin <(echo "'"'tB_:^"J[l4{8DCBvQ21ap(^nI[)"hD}fA@yQ``^)([[6XGmE~Co{gyOdvh(f%dFE"DBk|{[xw;vVsN7Rpo\m10|hgg*ecDC<_') <<<$inp);done < 1547354350 68618 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A \ L \ G \ O \ M \ I \ J < 1547354479 969942 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.... but sometimes that works out. < 1547354654 69025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: it might be timing out < 1547354661 238684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it gives no output < 1547354668 34408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No output.) < 1547354679 944668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/! < 1547354680 561648 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" < 1547354701 562276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1547354705 13107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/interp < 1547354705 661575 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" < 1547354715 262753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok those are identical... < 1547354758 855318 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet worked out exactly what that malbolge code is doing, I "discovered" it. If you use it recursively starting with `A` it outputs ALGOMIJ, other starting characters give different / shorter loops e.g. T => T o o .. etc < 1547354764 211117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ibin/malbolge 'uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu' < 1547354777 911655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh right < 1547354787 336831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it didn't give error < 1547354795 172911 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1547354806 598587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ibin/malbolge 'uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu' <<< 5 < 1547354807 448411 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :55555 < 1547354822 27792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that part's ok, the `! code is at fault < 1547354940 192476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu' | cut -d' ' -f2- < 1547354941 72811 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547354947 684588 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a neater way to write it < 1547354966 723086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok that still looks fine... < 1547354993 578100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l bin/\! bin/interp < 1547354994 393175 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 1000 1000 6 Jul 8 2017 bin/! -> interp \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 1000 1000 96 Apr 7 2018 bin/interp < 1547355048 715440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/interp//3cARG="$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-)" < 1547355050 660989 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/interp//#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG="$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-)" \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" < 1547355106 989657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547355107 745136 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1547355110 234343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1547355204 916885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! ../bin/echo uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547355205 680863 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/../bin/echo: not found < 1547355224 747013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1547355234 53822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! ../../bin/echo uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547355234 696882 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^ < 1547355241 770042 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! < 1547355316 842419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sled bin/interp//s,bin/sh,bin/bash, < 1547355318 597014 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/interp//#!/bin/bash \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG="$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-)" \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" < 1547355327 653972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu < 1547355331 507366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1547355355 940337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still doesn't really do anything because `! doesn't support passing input to the program < 1547355356 66965 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu <<< G < 1547355356 776827 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid character in source file < 1547355375 710265 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1547355382 378460 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was looking at the source to see if there was a way to provide input < 1547355390 379737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better to use the ibin/... if you want that, i guess. < 1547355411 828537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file ibin/malbolge < 1547355412 588930 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ibin/malbolge: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable < 1547355421 617329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url ibin/malbolge < 1547355422 700973 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/ibin/malbolge < 1547355427 797654 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ibin/malbolge 'uba`_^!!~|:{V7C5SQPra<.n,IlHFh3fBB/R>>O*^\rJvu' <<< ! < 1547355428 651799 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!!!!! < 1547355431 912523 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nice < 1547355494 422869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug was because bin/sh is dash, which has some annoying behavior of echo iirc < 1547355591 454611 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for looking into it. So it's the !! characters. I'll see if I can find a way to properly escape in dash, but probably later :) < 1547355631 583992 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not too many people have been using the malbolge feature of HackEso to hit this ;) < 1547355729 999929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: i did fix it < 1547355736 612438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was \r, i think < 1547355767 257075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets turned into carriage return by dash's echo < 1547355813 730503 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bug wasn't really malbolge-specific, but people haven't been using that many other languages either. < 1547355826 507313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i hope this doesn't break the C one < 1547355843 535240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("hello!\n"); < 1547355849 92087 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1547355862 281596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("hello!\nthere"); < 1547355863 633153 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! \ there < 1547355939 44240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: i just changed ! to use bash instead. < 1547356240 369198 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool. The two examples I was trying both accepted input, so they are still not going to work. < 1547356275 112183 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! malbolge 'C&$_ < 1547356275 922178 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :R < 1547356307 147414 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that worked on the old version. Most of my Malbolge discoveries take input < 1547356357 607356 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ibin/malbolge "'"'tB_:^"J[l4{8DCBvQ21ap(^nI[)"hD}fA@yQ``^)([[6XGmE~Co{gyOdvh(f%dFE"DBk|{[xw;vVsN7Rpo\m10|hgg*ecDC<_#?!!<}:{2x0TSucrNNMK9llGjFgC' <<< M < 1547356358 447583 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1547356371 126091 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ibin/malbolge "'"'tB_:^"J[l4{8DCBvQ21ap(^nI[)"hD}fA@yQ``^)([[6XGmE~Co{gyOdvh(f%dFE"DBk|{[xw;vVsN7Rpo\m10|hgg*ecDC<_#?!!<}:{2x0TSucrNNMK9llGjFgC' <<< N < 1547356371 939165 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :N < 1547356793 135947 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547358191 332391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, there is no way in Node.js to execute a function in a separate call stack. I think such a thing would sometimes be useful, mainly for emulation of other JavaScript APIs, although it has other uses too. < 1547358227 687254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-47-161.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1547358690 708412 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1547360108 448666 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547362787 184653 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sduwvdiefaeuoffc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1547363937 243416 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azuuwtxktarrqezf JOIN :#esoteric < 1547366321 664524 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds > 1547368585 500049 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59087 5* 03A 5* (+899) 10Created page with "''Printscript'' is an esoteric scripting language. This programming language only supports the "print" function. (Astonishingly, it can also create an [[Infinite loop]] based..." > 1547368751 551743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59088&oldid=59087 5* 03A 5* (+28) 10Fix things > 1547368822 769078 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59089&oldid=59088 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10 > 1547368921 535723 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59090&oldid=59089 5* 03A 5* (+62) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547369007 999551 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59091&oldid=59090 5* 03A 5* (+2) 10Final Fixes > 1547369161 224605 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59092&oldid=59091 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10 > 1547369259 334913 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59093&oldid=59092 5* 03A 5* (-20) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547369379 330095 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59094&oldid=59093 5* 03A 5* (+147) 10 > 1547369525 857799 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59095&oldid=59094 5* 03A 5* (+57) 10Trying to make it simpler > 1547369580 767429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59096&oldid=59095 5* 03A 5* (+0) 10 > 1547369794 513388 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59097&oldid=59096 5* 03A 5* (+105) 10/* Syntax */ > 1547369876 20703 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59098&oldid=59097 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547369923 440290 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59099&oldid=59098 5* 03A 5* (-1) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547370090 984090 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59100&oldid=59099 5* 03A 5* (-5) 10 > 1547370497 415561 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59101&oldid=59100 5* 03A 5* (+10) 10That's not an infinite loop > 1547370687 715689 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59102&oldid=59101 5* 03A 5* (+169) 10/* Syntax */ > 1547370710 519495 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59103&oldid=59102 5* 03A 5* (-19) 10/* Syntax */ > 1547370805 738156 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59104&oldid=59103 5* 03A 5* (+117) 10 > 1547370841 827804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59105&oldid=59104 5* 03A 5* (-11) 10 < 1547370852 148178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite > 1547370984 529729 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59106&oldid=59105 5* 03A 5* (-11) 10 > 1547371021 181529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59107&oldid=59106 5* 03A 5* (-53) 10/* Interpreter(in C) */ > 1547371128 550669 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59108&oldid=59107 5* 03A 5* (+34) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547371159 294816 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59109&oldid=59108 5* 03A 5* (+15) 10 > 1547371197 5524 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59110&oldid=59109 5* 03A 5* (+16) 10 > 1547371226 107364 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59111&oldid=59110 5* 03A 5* (-64) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547371236 90756 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59112&oldid=59111 5* 03A 5* (-15) 10 > 1547371411 914213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59113&oldid=59112 5* 03A 5* (+5) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547371456 947450 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59114&oldid=59113 5* 03A 5* (-6) 10 > 1547371548 78472 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59115&oldid=59067 5* 03A 5* (+43) 10/* Prelude */ < 1547371553 982943 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar eddm < 1547371554 757404 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDDM 130920Z 25015KT 9999 -RA FEW009 BKN012 03/01 Q1011 R88/290095 NOSIG > 1547371736 504598 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59116&oldid=59114 5* 03A 5* (+93) 10/* Interpreter(in C) */ > 1547371888 835568 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59117&oldid=59116 5* 03A 5* (+11) 10/* Interpreter(in C) */ > 1547371933 278624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59118&oldid=59117 5* 03A 5* (-13) 10/* Interpreter(in C) */ > 1547372148 338498 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59119&oldid=59118 5* 03A 5* (+31) 10 > 1547372757 814467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59120&oldid=59119 5* 03A 5* (+6) 10 > 1547372842 384298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59121&oldid=59120 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10/* Syntax */ > 1547372934 439863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59122&oldid=59121 5* 03A 5* (+130) 10 < 1547372944 846435 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1547373032 706906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59123&oldid=59122 5* 03A 5* (+91) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547373186 567375 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59124&oldid=59123 5* 03A 5* (+63) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547373207 85818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59125&oldid=59124 5* 03A 5* (+3) 10 > 1547373322 499321 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59126&oldid=59125 5* 03A 5* (+76) 10 < 1547373351 859747 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1547373456 404650 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547373704 433893 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1547378478 531316 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1547380339 117272 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547380421 90794 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggestions to improve 'Cactusi': Use the modern Romanian subscript-comma orthography to correct the plural: Cactuși, extend the language from simple text encoding to incorporate something from the work of the Romanian mathematicians Alexandra Bellow and Cassius Ionescu-Tulcea (Lifting theory, building on John von Neumann), incorporate Cactus graphs with category theory, and somehow stay true to the original "vision" of the chrome < 1547380740 129644 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547381542 714857 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :above inspired by a comment earlier today on "fixing underspecified esolangs". I haven't come up with any concrete fixes though, I got very distracted looking for photos of Alexandra Bellow with catctuși < 1547381558 691507 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest I found was her and this Yucca https://adevarul.ro/assets/adevarul.ro/MRImage/2014/10/24/544a73520d133766a83508d6/orig.jpg < 1547381664 813491 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547381924 692007 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1547381968 313831 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.140.88.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1547382015 115091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: you mean like, specify the syntax and deterministic execution order of (0)? because that's sort of unnecessary, it's not like those change anything important. or fixing languages that are so underspecified that you can get multiple entirely different languages from them? < 1547382071 712222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's usually not worth either because those languages suck. < 1547382140 193621 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it is worth is somewhere in the middle, when you already have a clearly interesting language, but there's some overlooked ambiguity in the specs < 1547382241 570284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that ambty makes it impossible to program, in which case usually the first person who publishes a good interpreter or sample programs is the one who gets to fix the spec, < 1547382261 623838 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they ask the creator of the language and they clarify. < 1547382279 669396 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I tried to understand the current binary encoding of that language, and gave up, so that's not a good start. There's not even an example to point out there is a mistake in the spec. < 1547382421 324280 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was primarily intended as a joke fix to ... hmm, the creator hasn't classified that one as a joke esolang. < 1547382578 707175 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The initial motivation was to fix Oerjan's objection to the grammar. Cactuși _is_ the valid plural of cactus in Romanian, and there is an interesting background to the orthography of that 'ș' letter, use of cedilla subscript, and inclusion into the Unicode spec < 1547382647 299811 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1547382678 123146 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I looked for something interesting and related to computation from Romania and found the Ionescu-Tulceas, so the whole investigation ended up being quite interesting. < 1547382776 379491 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hijacking the name and making a completely different esolang based on category theory is probably rude, so I'll just have to either make a suggestion, or let it go :) < 1547382976 966211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, unless the name is just the name of a page created by a spambot < 1547383011 562143 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... taking something a bit ridiculous and running with it to make it serious seems to amuse me. That's why I like Deadfish and its 'overflow' arithmetic < 1547383143 494574 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download"? Not a joke lang, based on lamdba calculus < 1547383160 548320 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's been done before < 1547383321 33834 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be a teaching opportunity here to help an enthusiastic beginner... although I'm struggling to find and understand what von Neumann and the Ionescu-Tulceas wrote about lifting theory < 1547383779 569065 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a serious note, there should be a guide or something for beginners to explain the levels of languages, encoding vs computation, elements of a language that can be designed or borrowed. Some of these seem to be common pitfalls and providing an easy to process intro early might save some misspent bytes < 1547383947 21576 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found the stub for exactly that: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Introduction_to_esolang_design It's clearly not ready to be linked from the main page yet, but there's a goal. < 1547383976 242631 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good intentions from 2015 :) < 1547384028 458889 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disassembling the broken chair < 1547384034 565267 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll assemble the new one < 1547384039 777222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1547384050 484572 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :between the two I have to take the old chair down to the basement < 1547384093 88053 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a computational metaphor? < 1547384154 948376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1547384163 957733 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke the chair at the computer desk at home < 1547384167 695562 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I bought a new one < 1547384186 534729 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one was great, but getting a bit worn out < 1547384201 587548 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it broke simplifies my decisions a lot < 1547384218 666616 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to think about whether I should have the torn leather restored < 1547384228 759884 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just throw away the whole thing because the frame broke < 1547384367 121482 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547384542 116552 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547384755 773722 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh, I just got that your reference to (0) was a concrete one to a language you tried to figure out and added a wiki entry for ... I first thought you meant generally empty or contentless! < 1547384880 956978 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the first time the lack of a name confuses someone in chat < 1547384903 944001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was definitely worth to use (0) as the name < 1547384928 889102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, disassembled < 1547384934 62981 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll take it to the basement < 1547384942 656653 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played around with David Madore's Юᓂ곧⎔ and came up with a start for an interpreter. I I enjoyed trying to figure out the underlying intent of the language, using clues in the sparse description to infer more about it. < 1547385041 704570 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I figured out he had to be using his understanding of C and was just making unicode substitutions for C like things, it was easy to follow through with more, taking what had been written down in spec and examples as gospel, and creatively fill in any gaps < 1547385294 996610 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Your Amycus probably is the canonical example of a new language spawned from a misunderstanding of unclear specifications of another. Precedent! ;) < 1547385437 376808 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, good luck with the chairs. I need to sleep < 1547385447 512720 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noapte bună! < 1547385508 763186 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1547386030 314922 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basement is not only creepy but also very dirty < 1547386034 654927 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a shower break < 1547386048 664772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: nope, the specs weren't unclear < 1547386056 987072 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was spawned from misunderstanding of clear specifications < 1547386147 915287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have some more questions about cryptography < 1547386170 104691 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :first one is, in assymetric crypto, why do we talk about "public keys" and "private keys", rather than "public locks" and "private keys"? < 1547386200 426787 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this only because of the incidental symmetry between them in RSA, which was the first well-known protocol? < 1547386253 332222 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have other question too, but leaving them to later > 1547386445 892818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59127&oldid=59126 5* 03A 5* (+64) 10/* Example Programs */ > 1547387293 824273 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59128&oldid=59127 5* 03A 5* (-121) 10 > 1547387348 38782 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Printscript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59129&oldid=59128 5* 03A 5* (-3) 10/* Example Programs */ < 1547389177 909489 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgkcoxlfljeiawsr JOIN :#esoteric < 1547389751 160342 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547389758 985165 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric > 1547389984 582534 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Call/cc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59130&oldid=46221 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+635) 10Added a better explanation of continuations. < 1547390828 944273 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4B8E1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547391647 297553 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1547393086 133440 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547393923 247673 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1547395011 186477 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1547395049 177097 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547395078 555769 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547395195 157505 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1547395202 83835 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1547395347 604937 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1547396031 959952 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547396319 933868 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26ze7mm4q737w3j4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1547398695 929073 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190112.html < 1547398696 828582 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190112.html: b_jonas < 1547398718 578765 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1547399711 496183 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hello < 1547400102 804468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1547400218 498130 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1547400310 229625 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric < 1547400456 775691 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm messing around with Rust < 1547400846 74643 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547400977 632446 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a programmer so I hate ignoring recommendations in manuals, but this IKEA chair doesn't make it easy to follow suggestions. The box has icons saying I shouldn't be using a blade to open it, but I don't see how else I should start to open them when it's taped down at the seams. The manual, like every IKEA manual, says < 1547401005 352481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's better to have two people together to assemble the furniture, rather than doing it on my own, but come on! It's just a chair, it's not a bed frame. < 1547401402 589396 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read through the manual. Now I'm supposed to say something last-words worthy, like "Ok, this assembly procedure is pretty straightforward.". < 1547402207 354211 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1547403550 936490 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :chair is assembled < 1547403575 649683 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm supposed to say another last-words worthy sentence now. < 1547404587 130219 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547404672 574641 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :a queue automaton that can only dequeue and enqueue single symbols per state transition is not turing complete. i.e, if you're in a state, examine the symbol at the head of the queue. if it's what you think, dequeue it and enqueue another symbol. < 1547404709 436957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: huh what why? < 1547404735 566385 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: try doing something like a -> bcd. < 1547404755 273996 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :your queue needs a sufficient amount of "blank" symbols. < 1547404950 349838 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this is how my mind works: you ask about public key crypto then talk about IKEA manual algorithms; I search for an find https://kottke.org/18/04/ikea-style-instructions-for-programming-algorithms < 1547405077 634183 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a feeling IKEA manual algoritms had been done before, public key crytpo being the first example was just a coincidence I'll run with! < 1547405088 941406 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1547405146 833910 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that even shows a box that uses the RSA style keys where the public key and private key are dual < 1547405208 738149 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: https://ptpb.pw/5veP/text for instance. < 1547405226 557608 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, it _is_ TC if you split the enqueue and dequeue operations into different actions. < 1547405239 769899 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "take a symbol, leave a symbol" queue automata aren't TC. < 1547405243 553088 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I don't think. < 1547405298 618267 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, forgot the halt state.. https://ptpb.pw/0SvB/text < 1547405299 910434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: oh sure, because then the cyclic queue will never increase in size < 1547405305 280192 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1547405336 745588 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to use up the space you're equipped with. you can either change the semantics of the queue or the semantics of the automaton. < 1547405345 135748 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547405351 182049 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547405399 603259 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to change the semantics of the queue is to say that there always exists one blank space in the queue at a particular point, and you can never dequeue it (or rather, when you do, it's always equivalent to enqueueing the symbol you want + a blank space.) < 1547405453 263198 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you have something like S1 _ -> S2 b, it's really equivalent to saying S1 _ -> S2 b_ or something similar. < 1547405467 993964 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think it shows what I was going to say that they are both 'keys', but one for locking and the other for UNlocking. The 'lock' is real < 1547405493 915388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that links to https://idea-instructions.com/ which has more < 1547405575 952337 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: sure, but that's not how I think of it. how I think of it is that you put the lock on the thing you want to lock and click it on, for which you don't need a key, you need an open lock which is private, then someone who has a public key can open the lock, but opening it destroys the lock completely, you can't close it again < 1547405587 582320 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arh, silly network keeps failing on me... The lock is really the encrypted message, though no one calls it a lock < 1547405644 292657 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the take a symbol leave a symbol queue is just a FSA < 1547405669 659865 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly LBA depending on how it's initialized < 1547405758 74868 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's LBA. it can only use the amount of space that's available in the queue/circular buffer. < 1547405761 435666 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also reclaim space as well. < 1547405811 146280 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can split the enqueueing of strings across multiple states that enqueue multiple symbols. but you can only use the space you're equipped with. < 1547405813 338920 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether it's FSA or LBA depends on whether the initial (and thereafter) size of the queue is specified in the description of the machine or the description of the input < 1547405844 846265 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take the initial queue as the input. < 1547405856 611720 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's LBA. < 1547405937 439685 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial input needs to include some kind of "extra space" in this case, meaning prepended/appended with a number of blanks. of course you can get clever with your problem solving and morph/re-use parts of your input in-place that aren't blanks.. < 1547405951 395564 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: with that description of the click lock, I understand wher you are coming from better. I guess the locking is more involved than a simple click - it's a custom lock that requires a key to be turned do perform the lock < 1547406146 203388 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://idea-instructions.com/graph-scan/ is unrealistic. in IKEA manuals, when there are alternate ways to assemble something, the steps in them are labeled with disjoint intervals < 1547406186 460802 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: are you referring to a particular lang here? Last lang I see mentioned is Rust. I'm fairly certain you're not talking about Rust < 1547406217 207340 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, just a class of queue automata. < 1547406467 129705 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547406887 127637 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547407047 107740 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the diagram is versioned with various fixes, it looks like they are open to bug reports and suggestions < 1547407317 146916 :salpynx!769595ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.149.149.174 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1547407436 720150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1547407436 807869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1547407436 807921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547407441 271252 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1547408493 236907 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1547408553 444294 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547408650 951549 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? teh < 1547408652 602818 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :teh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1547408814 443407 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Client Quit < 1547409012 965953 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1547409113 945782 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.jstor.org/stable/20488489?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents < 1547410291 149705 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1547410390 463391 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I've thought about your lock analogy further, how about this: a public key is just data, and should not be thought of as a mechanism like a lock. The mechanism part of the lock analogy is in the encryption algorithm. Public keys are distributed freely and no one cares about that. To actually lock something you need more than just a public key, and crypto algorithms are/have been import restricted as munitions because of th < 1547410412 271690 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Posessing a public key on its own gives no locking ability, it's just a dumb piece of metal with bumps. The algorithm contains the mechanism, and there are real-world examples that illustrate how that is considered a very different class. < 1547410738 535264 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a comparison between 'data and code', but of course code _is_ data. What is the terminology to distinguish that some data represent algorithms and other data represent ... not-algorithms. What's the word for that? < 1547411158 282692 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a distinction in my view because any piece of data can be swapped for something that generates that piece of data. < 1547411164 40277 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :data is code, code is data. < 1547411264 799815 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more Harvard architectures. :-P < 1547411368 852853 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrioshka languages correspond to the harvard architecture. :P < 1547411379 930645 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was looking for something that clearly defined the difference between "operators" and "numbers", which I felt I should already know, but quickly ended up on lamdba calculus and Church encoding, so 'no real distinction' seems to be the answer < 1547411414 33298 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but we tend to make a distinction, doesn't that have a term, even if it is a subjective thing? < 1547411596 656571 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it seems to come by many names for many situations. < 1547411608 310456 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue's split between its rule store and its initial input is the segmentation between code and data. < 1547411622 382324 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict harvard architectures are split between their code and data stores. < 1547411661 58481 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machines... really any automata. < 1547411717 429350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: no no. the algorithm is the cupboard or safe or building that you lock something in. the lock on it is the "private key". normally you get in the building by opening the lock with the public key and then opening the door of the building, but if the building is badly designed, there might be other ways. < 1547411842 31856 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lock is just data too unless you know how to open it, like usually you do that by inserting the key and turning it, then either you remove the lock from the door or just turning the key pulls in some iron rods, and in either case now you can open the door < 1547411924 875636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the door and building, or the chain on the lock, or whatever big thing there is that you can move after the lock is open, is the symmetric cipher by the way, because locks can move only very few objects alone. < 1547412033 525455 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :my take on the code/data split is that one exists and it's pretty fundamental. the lambda calculus, for example, allows you to specify data as code by special sequences of applications and their subsequent reductions. but you always need some kind of outside system to reduce these. < 1547412066 846675 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, for any system, there needs to exist some kind of evaluator for that system, else it doesn't "do anything". < 1547412110 940073 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think of a system, I can think of an interpreter for that system. I can also think of an interpreter for that interpreter, so on and so forth into infinity. < 1547412150 856151 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possessing a physical open click-lock without any keys allows someone to lock something, which is potentially useful, as opposed to possessing only a physical key, so locks have more _doing_ power than keys < 1547412332 42380 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: yes, and that's what I expect from an assymetric encryption system: the private key alone lets me lock something, the public key alone doesn't let me do anything < 1547412353 171055 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: so it's the context set by the processing machine's architecture, whether it is Harvard / von Neumann, or arbitrary split, like humans who can chose (struggle?) to understand numbers in different ways < 1547412370 12037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it doesn't happen to work that way with RSA is just an incident of implementation that we needn't rely on, and not all assymetric encryption systems need to be like that < 1547412495 851407 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :salpynx: imho it's a lot deeper than that, because if you're dealing with a given machine, there can always be (and always has to be) some kind of outer shell that's interpreting the machine you're working with. < 1547412524 246287 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a set of rules governing what a given machine does at any particular point, and those rules need to be evaluated. < 1547412550 115795 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out for our physical computers, those rules are, well, physics (or a certain subset of quantum electrodynamics depending on the manufacturing process.) > 1547412554 533792 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03FrenchMasterSword 5* 10New user account < 1547412570 708701 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in my opinion, everything's harvard. < 1547412610 8135 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a split between the code that does stuff, and the stuff it does stuff to. < 1547412843 556271 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is Harvard? I thought you were going to argue for everything is von Neumann by getting down to physics. Everything that _is_ stuff, also happens to _do_ stuff < 1547412919 77388 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in my view. there's always a split. turing kind of saw this, because there's a split between the state table storage for a given TM and the tape. < 1547412935 914980 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can simulate a von Neumann machine using that system. < 1547412936 483202 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about, in the levels close to the main RAM and peripherials, code and data are the same, but in the parts closer to the CPU core, they get split and treated totally differently? < 1547413115 425774 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there always has to be, in my view, a split between the rules that govern a system and the things that exist in that system. > 1547413115 883983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03FMS 5* 10New user account > 1547413175 393709 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59131&oldid=59027 5* 03FMS 5* (+572) 10/* Introductions */ < 1547413303 430427 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: "a split between the rules that govern a system and the things that exist in that system" yes, that sounds good to me, but what is the term for those distinctions applied to a specific system? < 1547413371 220466 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like fundamentally they are the same thing, but in the context of the system we want to focus on, they are classed differently < 1547413566 613369 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could always invent one if it doesn't exist. nothing comes to mind. < 1547413629 562087 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I'm not sure about the safe / building analogy. The "safe" is just a box, like the building is a shell. A file is the data analogy here? Zip, rot13, and .txt are all 'buildings' or 'boxes', whereas some part of RSA is a lock, but not particularly the part that adds an marker or whatever to the end < 1547413651 507502 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is that there has to be some level of "data" that a particular system cannot access. in the context of a harvard architecture, that data is the instructions for the machine. same goes for turing machines: a TM cannot modify its state table. < 1547413878 781866 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus cannot modify the rules by which it is evaluated. < 1547413917 966338 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always a split between the rules that your state has to follow and the state itself. < 1547413982 558815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just a box. it's box with a door, and with tricky holes on the door and the rest of the box where you can put the lock such that the door (ideally) can't be opened until you open the lock < 1547414084 405447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, the whole point of cryptography is that Eve shouldn't be able to open the box even if he does things with the lock that you don't expect or don't have in the protocol, which is why the lock is data, not just code < 1547414120 196198 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the lock was code, it would be much simpler, it could be code that checks for the correct key and open up if the key is right and not do anything else, in which case Eve would be out of luck if he doesn't have the kye < 1547414129 37979 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the lock and the box are different things, you can have boxes without locks < 1547414188 598251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because ultimately, the box is also data < 1547414192 385745 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is just data < 1547414213 60144 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the dynamics of data is code. < 1547414215 281952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the protocol of properly opening and closing the door and manufacturing keys and locks that's code < 1547414324 552521 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was getting at with data representing algorithms. "dynamics of data" == algorithms? < 1547414345 431770 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh. < 1547414649 325148 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: 'there has to be some level of "data" that a particular system cannot access' is interesting and seems true. It feels relevant to the nature of reality, and physical laws, and then we'll be getting into "shut up and calculate" territory soon. Made me think of 'emergent behaviour' and I looked up the term for those levels: Integrative level < 1547414698 596296 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure whether it is exactly the same, but seems at least related in some way < 1547414728 249682 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go away and ponder. Good discussion, thanks! < 1547414819 302824 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers. o/ < 1547415051 974982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1547415087 608850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what topic David Madore tackles in his latest blog entry? it's another #esoteric favoruite < 1547415108 4792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an esolang, but still something this channel talks about often < 1547415549 523089 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MtG? < 1547415666 838910 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, I wonder if he's ever mentioned that < 1547415671 366204 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that he must have < 1547415680 594512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1547415693 692398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one clear mention < 1547416578 306006 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4b8e1.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547417966 203691 :olsner!~salparot@c83-249-185-75.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1547418137 684799 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-14-131.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1547418230 43719 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently my house is constructed in a ludicrously strudy manner < 1547418247 322484 :oren!~oren@ec2-18-212-11-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the floor joists are 4" by 12" < 1547418665 149940 :moei!~moei@221.78.42.71 JOIN :#esoteric > 1547418755 179213 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07$ $14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59132&oldid=59084 5* 03Cortex 5* (-1) 10 < 1547418813 752117 :olsner!~salparot@c83-249-185-75.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric > 1547418879 203744 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59133&oldid=59083 5* 03Cortex 5* (+66) 10 > 1547418911 342760 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LMBC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59134&oldid=58424 5* 03Cortex 5* (+7) 10 < 1547419128 378845 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-svukahbajediqbvp QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547419437 287299 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers JOIN :#esoteric > 1547419442 182433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PixelCode14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59135 5* 03SealedKiller 5* (+4677) 10Created page with "PixelCode is a esoteric programming language that was created by SealedKiller. It was inspired by Brainfuck and other esoteric programming languages. ==Language Overview== P..." > 1547419598 758998 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PixelCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59136&oldid=59135 5* 03SealedKiller 5* (+129) 10 > 1547419640 906483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PixelCode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59137&oldid=59136 5* 03SealedKiller 5* (+69) 10 < 1547420068 996806 :salpynx!794954f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.73.84.248 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1547420354 118795 :uplime!~nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers QUIT :Quit: please direct all IRC questions to c < 1547420822 846265 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1547420836 271881 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1547420836 351188 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-254-216-72.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1547420836 351241 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1547423653 278726 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1547423760 134189 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric